I saw this machine listed on Ebay. While buying an RV on Ebay scares me to death, seems like the bidding is pretty low for a unit like this with no reserve. Does anyone have any thoughts they'd like to share about the idea of buying this rig? Does anyone know the dealer or the history of this unit?
1992 Foretravel 40' Unihome Grand Villa Clean Interior Detroit Diesel (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1992-Foretravel-40-Unihome-Grand-Villa-Clean-Interior-Detroit-Diesel-Pusher-/221625925366?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3399ef3ef6&item=221625925366&pt=RVs_Campers)
Thanks
Rich
Well we have a 92 u300 and love it, As far as that Coach goes, It looks very nice I do wonder about the low mileage as with seals and gaskets and such. The best thing to do if it were me, would call the seller and go see it first hand. Better yet when before you go try to fine someone on the fourms that might live close and offer to pay them to go over it with you. Just my thoughts ;D
Wow .... wood floors and a residential fridge seem to say that someone lived in it regularly and did a fair amount of upgrading. Odometer reading is pretty meaningless ... engine hrs would tell the story. Very interesting!!
it has obviously seen some care and received some upgrades... Engine and generator compartment insulation has been replaced. That points to some care that is below the surface, which I believe is a very good sign.
Don
I just noticed the original Foretravel clock. Definitely some added value there :D
Larry
I think it looks like it is in pretty good shape and might be a good deal for someone.
This is certainly something to look very hard at. I suppose it's possible to get hurt but getting it for under $20k seems like it would work out pretty nicely.
TV in the bedroom is an update. I couldn't see a forward TV but a lot of people don't want TV anyway so that's hard to use as a measure.
But there are a few obvious upgrades.
Mileage probably indicates that the original odometer died. My '93 U225 says about 23,000 miles but it has closer to 70k. My odometer is a newer LCD type so it's a dead giveaway that it was a replacement.
You should go look.
Craig
Louis, if you haven't found Your Coach, this might be a pretty good choice. I know we wouldn't trade ours for a new one.
Just a thought.
Kent, you're not supposed to talk other people into bidding! :D
Seriously, I have concerns about a coach that was lived in, but not driven. I'd feel better if it were in Texas and I could get Brett to take look at it. If it does not get bid up too high, it's hard to make a mistake unless it was seriously abused/neglected.
I can't argue with you at all. I am much more afraid of a coach that has sat for twenty years than one that has appropriate miles for its age. But I'm betting when you check engine hours this one has had a new odometer installed. If so it looks like a pretty good bet.
This one is really a close build to mine. Only see a few differences. Hummm at this price I could buy for spare parts. :P Having a spare 6v92 and Allison setting around till I need it might be worth it!
see ya
ken
Boy... I'd be on a plane to FL tomorrow morning if I were looking for a FT. I was scared of the big Detroit engines but Kent, Pierce and several others have convinced me that one of these could be my next coach. 96" wide coach, air bags, probably has a computer on the DD. The bedroom is exacly like our U225 and I would rather sleep there than in the SnB. Especially on a summer day with both windows open and a nice view of a lake to look at while I read a book and nap, alternatively. :P
I would love those high basement bins. The U225 bins are a little tight height-wise.
Someone from the forum needs to get down there and take a look-see before some flatlander buys it! :P
Craig
Some body is going to get a better coach than they realize . This appears to be a real gem . I had an 1989 U-300 and this brings back good memories . This coach is tempting for sure . Brad Metzger
I also noticed the new insulation in the engine compartment. Would someone who didn't drive the coach bother doing that? Clues are everywhere. Our first coach, a '93, only showed 21+K miles. We found out later that the odometer had been replaced.
She sure is a pretty one, like a perfectly preserved 21 year time capsule except for the upgrades. Even the exterior and fabrics are primo.
Some new owner is going to be a happy camper.
@Craig I'm pretty sure all 92' U300s are 102" coaches. Looking at the grill (even with the cover on) it looks like a wide body.
see ya
ken
Ok, anybody near by to this coach that would take a quick look and see if it runs ok and is driveable some 3k miles for me??
JohnH
It would be almost exactly like a 93 but with a vinyl headliner rather than the carpet type. Would want to see why the generator was rebuilt and at what hours it has on it. Rebuilding could mean it was lived in for quite a while or could be from overheating. If parked anywhere near the water in Florida, it could have a bit of corrosion. Lot of older aircraft in Florida that are low time but worthless because of corrosion. Side radiator so it's the 350HP model. Faded decals also means it was stored outside a good part of it's life. And yes, it would be 102." All Detroit 2 cycles in Foretravels are DDEC II. Engine has the turbo and exhaust pipe wrap. Some came with that as an option. Old black insulation has been replaced in the engine compartment and generator compartment and the radiator duct in the storage compartment also has new insulation. This could be a really nice one or ...
Depending on how badly the tires are cracked, it could be driven across the U.S. with just all the belts replaced and spares carried along. Ours had been sitting for several years just about as far away. We replaced all belts, start batteries, jumped in, drove to the Atlantic and then headed home to California.
Prices this time of year are the lowest plus high cost of diesel is keeping many out of the RV market.
Check fault codes before buying and then head for home. Unless damaged from losing a belt, the Detroit will get you home and ask for more. The only engine close to it's reliability is the great N14 Cummins.
Pierce
This dealer is the one I bought my RV from last August. As their description states, they are a wholesaler. They deal primarily in RVs and boats and some cars. They certainly did not spend any time or money detailing for sale. Mine had about the same mileage listed; found a receipt saying that a new speedometer was installed about the 33,000 mile point. I don't fault Dave for not knowing that, because I received the entire 14-years worth of receipts, probably over 100 pages. A lot of the work was done at FOT. That is also how I discovered that I had painted graphics instead of decals. I do not think they had much experience with Foretravels; they certainly never mentioned the graphics were painted, or that it had a large electric Girard awning.
Although they refer to themselves as dealers, I think wholesalers is much more descriptive. They some how acquire the units and price them to move. In my case they were the first to respond when my RV's previous owner's daughter listed it for sale. She had moved her 86 year-old father to live with her in Hawaii and was just getting rid of his stuff. When we agreed on a price, we flew down to Ft. Myers and Dave picked us up at the airport. He then drove us to a Camping World where the coach was parked. We looked at it and paid him the money. We signed some paperwork and he forwarded pictures of my driver's license to his office, who then emailed me the temporary license. He left and so did we, starting our adventure with Ducky. The trip home would not have had nearly as many thrills if I had watched that video about right turns a second time -- and that's all I am willing to say about that story; it's only been four months and the nightmares are still too real!
In our experience, the eBay description was pretty accurate; it pointed out the major flaws. He showed us the Florida title, but when we received it, it was an Arizona title signed by the manager of Southwest Luxury Coach Sales, LLC, in Arizona. It turns out that OK required both the title and the bill of sale (in our case a purchase order from SWLCS) from Arizona to be notarized. The manager said that was not an actual requirement, but the OK DMV required it. I sent them to him by priority mail, and he returned them, notarized, via FedEx. Make sure you find out what your state requires for issuing a title. The nonresident temporary permit was issued by Arizona and was good for 90 days. However, in Oklahoma you only have 30 days from purchase before you start incurring a penalty.
I do not know anything about this coach, but based on the pictures, it seems to be in very good condition. I know on mine, they did not clean it up much, so the good appearance is not just cosmetic. In my case the basement seemed to have whatever the previous owner had left, including all the manuals and receipts.
The fact that it is being sold through eBay should give you some additional safeguards. I did not bid on mine on eBay and made a deal after it did not sell there. I did feel that the seller was honest in our dealings and did every thing that he promised. The fact that he says the tires need to be replaced, would cause me to to that on day one.
If any of you are in the market, this *could* be the deal of that only appears to be too good to be true.
Good luck; don't forget, YMMV.
Trent
Dave sent me a message that points out that it has Jake valve covers so this one has the Jacobs Brake installed and the Allison 746 transmission.
I am on the big monitor now instead of the iPad in front of the TV (was watching Ken Burns not sit com ;D) and in looking at the engine closeups, can see quite a bit of corrosion. Check the AC compressor pulley. Photos make anything look better than it is so high rez on a big monitor is a must before buying the airline tickets. Ebay photos are light years away from photos needed to make any decision. How about photos of the bulkhead and the exposed electrical bus panel with the isolator and boost solenoid on it?
While Foretravel may have been able to bring the 300HP version to 350HP, it would be a major fine from the EPA to go beyond that. Only fire trucks or marine engines have the correct serial numbers to do that. Using my Pro-Link 9000, I can read out the ECU firmware version and horsepower. The earlier 300HP Allison transmission is rated for less torque/HP.
On the good side, it does not look as if the previous owner let the maintenance go as seen in the replacement insulation and the recent green strip Gates belts on the alternator. Interior sure is tidy. No evidence of long term living on board.
Pierce
Bob,
Yes, the rules are sometimes bent. Just use a marine or FD serial number to upgrade. Easy to check with a Silverleaf or Pro-Link connected to the data port with the HP figure as one of the first readouts. You probably viewed the 520HP 6V92TA ladder truck engine on YouTube.
P
For $12,000, nothing I see in the photos would scare me. If you notice, the owner even has a little sleeve on the awing to the right of the door - I assume to protect the door from hitting the awning when deployed. Little things like that tell me someone cared for this coach.
Little things I noticed, but definitely not deal breakers: Large bay door aft of entry door has an aluminum support holding it up (bad struts?); Floor in front of cupboard does not match rest of floor; no satellite dish, but roof antenna crank just above pass seat; looks like white co-ax cable in "cupboard" between seats/under dash; front stoneguard does not have access to the two compartments; no flap under rear; both lites in engine compartment broken or disconnected; floors in front, bathroom, and bedroom all different; front windshield wipers on separate motors.
In the same price range, but Craigslist.....1989 36' gran villa foretravel (http://houston.craigslist.org/rvs/4791565686.html) Gotta love that chrome bumper, headliner looks unstained, a good sign.
Would question 300 HP. Strong likelihood it is the Detroit Diesel 8.2 liter V8 4 stoke-- HP around 210 if I recall correctly. And, that engine was not a good candidate for hopping up.
Bumpers are stainless steel.
Headliner is vinyl, so water damage will not be as visible as with the Ozite carpet.
Foam rubber inside center strip on ceiling has deteriorated, so probably entire ceiling foam behind vinyl also. The telltale depressions around the snap on buttons indicate deterioration. Exterior decals extremely bad shape.
Like Brett says--DD 8.2L V8 210 HP. Engine exhaust out passenger side--same as ours.
Those last two posts are about the 89 on craigslist, right? I would say there is a lot more value in the '92, right? Those two really don't belong at the same price point. I would think the '92 will end up being bid up to $20 grand before it's sold.
Brett, do you have any thoughts on the Ebay coach? It is very close the RV that I had before the fire. Same engine, same floorplan, same dimensions.
I'm curious about the details on that. Were/are there special EPA rules for fire trucks?
With that age coach, I would not even venture an opinion on whether this could be a real bargain or a money pit. Much of the answer depends on how it was maintained throughout its life, condition of bulkheads, etc.
David,
The California Air Quality Resource Board regulations take precedent over EPA regulations. This is why Detroits, CATs and some Cummins for commercial use are no longer allowed on California roads. I was just talking to a fellow with a really nice CAT big rig. He had it parked in his front yard as he could no longer legally drive it. Of the 3.5 million Detroit 2 cycles made, 700,000 are still in service. MTU remanufactures Detroit engines for the U.S. but can't make new ones for use here. Their new line of 4 cycles are legal here but the 8V-92 (the only model of the 2 cycle still made new) has to be sold overseas or to the military.
There are a couple of companies who make common rail injection kits for Detroits, Cummins and CATs to bring them into compliance with emission laws.
Here is the list of exemptions for diesels in California. Boats are another matter.
In order to qualify for an exemption, your truck must be one of the following:
Class 6 or smaller (GVWR equal to or less than 26,000 pounds)
Non-diesel fueled (e.g. LNG fueled)
Emergency vehicle
Military tactical support vehicle
Off-road (e.g. yard trucks, mobile cranes)
Dedicated-use vehicle. Uni-body vehicles that do not have separate tractor and trailers. Examples include:
Fuel delivery vehicles
Concrete mixers
Logging trucks that haul only logs
Vehicles using a power take off (PTO) with a hydraulic motor or blower. Trucks that receive a PTO exemption must be attached to a trailer that needs the PTO to load or unload.
On-road mobile cranes
Detroit 2 cycles as well as other non-complying diesels are legal for used RVs in California.
Pierce
Betting this one is OK as the corrosion from sitting in a light salt air environment is MUCH different than a coach driven on winter salt treated roads in the northern states. The salt and other ingredients get everywhere, are difficult to wash away and when the coach gets damp again, the remaining salt starts to work again.
This is one of the big reasons we took the the RAV4 to Yellowstone and Detroit the last 3 weeks.
In the world of high tech today, any seller to be trusted will provide high resolution photos of any area you may ask for. Failure to do so usually means they have something to hide. Private parties without digital camera can always find a family member to take good photos.
To someone with experience, a one minute look at the exterior, underbelly, roof, interior will usually tell the tale along with a test drive. Leaking tanks like Don had are the exception. Logs are also a plus. A longer and more detailed inspection will show up the items needed to negotiate over.
I have paid an aircraft mechanic to look over a plane at long distance. A good one can tell the exact condition in an hour by reading the logs, checking for corrosion, pulling the prop through to check for low compression (I just did that myself in Cincinnati, OH).
Pierce
To anyone who's interested, this no reserve auction (1992 U300) ended with weekend with a sale of this coach for the bargain basement price of $12,800. This seemed to be well below what this coach was worth, but I just could not get myself to bid on a coach sight unseen from someone I didn't know. If you buy a coach for $12,000 below market, and find out it has $20,000 worth of problems, it is no longer a bargain. A big part of the reason that these coaches are priced where they are is because they are expensive to fix, and at 22 years old, who knows who's been tinkering with all those parts for the last two decades. I am just not that much of a gambler.
My last '92 had some serious problems that I only found out about after I owned it. Even though I owned the exact same coach, and I really enjoyed it, I was kind of hoping for a bit of an upgrade.