I am presently storing my coach in an indoor storage facility that has no AC power to plug the coach into.
The storage facility is 285 miles(one way) from home so it is not that convenient to frequently visit.
I disconnected the negative cable to the Engine battery.
I have the "salesman's switch" turned off but there is still a drain on the house batteries.
The house batteries in this coach are "tucked away" in a compartment in the middle of the coach in the bay
with the joey bed. It is very difficult to get to them.
There is a fuse block on the back wall of that curb side bay similar to the one pictured below.
A red positive cable is attached to either end of the fuse block.
Can I disconnect the red positive cable from one of the terminals to cut off any current drain?
Will it be safe as long as I don't ground the wrench while loosening the nut holding the cable in place?
I would like to add a battery disconnect switch(pictured below) while I have the cable off to make it easier.
Any thoughts or comments? Will it work OK?
Thanks--Jim
What exact batteries?
You always want to disconnect the negative lead to the batteries first, before touching the positive lead. I suspect that fuse is inline with the positive lead, so should not be touched first. The switch you show should do the job, and can be placed on either the positive or negative lead to the battery, located somewhere reachable.
On our coach, turning off the 'salesman' door switch leaves 12 volt power to refrigerator & smoke/propane detectors. Also on our coach the house & start battery feeds three 90-amp round breakers, so following your coach's wiring diagram you may be able to remove the house battery hot wire from most circuits, but there may be other original or previous owner connections to house battery.
No problem disconnecting fuse wire or better yet just the fuse. Your BlueSea battery switch is a good idea, but you may want to take the time to access the battery bank and install the switch on the negative cable and mount the switch near the batteries, to be sure you are fully disconnecting all loads.
Thank you for the replies.
I guess I will attempt to get to the batteries. Making the job somewhat harder is the PO installed wooden side boards on the
Joey bed making it very difficult to get to the house batteries.
I will have to dismantle the side boards and then get to the batteries and disconnect the negative lead before installing
the switch.
As to the exact batteries that is unknown as I have never seen the house batteries.
The battery placement on this coach is not user friendly ::)
batteries self discharge. Any way to run an solar panel outside somewhere and run the wires to the batteries?
You can always take the batteries out and take them home with you. You can them put them on a battery maintainer.
Wood side boards will seal off the battery compartment, yielding less air flow. That compartment gets very warm and warm batteries should be charged at lower voltages, which takes longer. Important to put a wireless thermometer sensor in the compartment so you are aware of what is going on in that area. Use venting screen to close off. Anything that you can do to remove some of the heat will also prolong the life of the batteries.
You are correct and not alone on your observation of that the batteries are very hard to get at.
Besides it is about time you got more intimate with your house batteries as you don't want them to feel unappreciated.
"Besides it is about time you got more intimate with your house batteries as you don't want them to feel unappreciated."
The more I get intimate with this coach--the more my body aches :) I thought my boat was bad!!!
The solar panel sounds like a good idea but the owner or the storage facility is very meticulous and would not approve
of any add-on. He will install a 15 amp circuit in the unit when he gets back from FLA in the spring, so I just have
to make do till then.
Thank You all for your help--Jim
If fully charged and the negative terminals disconnected, they will go all winter without discharging or freezing even if stored outside. In case a storage has juice, a trickle charger will not cause any battery heating that can be felt. We had a big Cole-Hersee battery switch on all the fire trucks and each time after parking on the apparatus floor, we switched the batteries off. Never had to worry if it was going to start or any battery drain from radios, etc.
Pierce
I had to use an engine hoist to remove and replace the house batteries on my coach even though they are on a slide out tray; very heavy. A weight lifter dude could do it.
8D-AGM weighs about 167 pounds. Just make sure you bend your knees.
I never was a fan of the 8D, and change them out for two series connected golf cart batteries at first opportunity. It makes changing them much easier, and they tend to last longer. About the same capacity.
The battery location in a 2003 U320 like the OP mentions does not allow wet cell batteries like golf cart batteries, and doesn't lend itself to ready access. Best options are 8D AGM or Gel or (if the budget allows and you replace the inverter/charger) LiFePO4.
Lifeline has 6 volt AGM batteries that substitute for golf cart batteries. Two of these 6 volt batteries connected to make one 12 volt battery would have less (but not significantly less) amp hours than one 8D, fit the footprint of an 8D, but would be taller, and the two together would weight less than one 8D.
In some new applications, some manufacturers are using 6 volt batteries as substitutes for 8D's.
Larry
Yup, 2 golf cart (6VDC) batteries in series are very similar in capacity to an 8D.
And, you mention Lifeline. They make both 6 and 12 and both are the same deep cycle well-made batteries.
Sure easier to lift the 6's!
FWIW,Just make sure that you are comparing "apples and apples." Taking one of the more expensive options for instance (which magnifies the cost advantage), for these two comparable AGM's (Lifelines), in order to get just a $40 savings per 12Vdc set, with two Golf Cart AGM's connected in series, versus the 12Vdc 8D's, you are getting: - 35 Amp/Hr less/battery set @ the 20 Hr. Rate or, in other words, 105 Amp/Hr less for 3 battery sets connected in 12Vdc series-parallel, like in most M11 coaches.
- 25 Lbs less weight in the "guts" that really matter in a battery (battery internals weight, not in the battery case but in the amp/hr producing stuff).
- A whopping 900 less CCA/set @ 68°F and 600 less CCA/set @ 0°F (That is 2700 CCA's less for 3 battery sets connected in 12Vdc series-parallel @ 68°F)
- The Reserve Capacity, between the two, does compare favorably.
- Using Golf Cart Batteries also means three more jumpers (six more battery posts/connections/twelve more surfaces) to maintain and keep in good condition) and the initial cost to either fabricate or purchase the three jumpers.
- Several years into use, if you have one of six or one of three go bad, one is still faced with the partial versus complete replacement decision. Probabilities analysis says that one in six is more likely to occur than one in three, just from a pure probabilities standpoint. Common sense says so as well. So the replacement decision is likely to occur sooner and the lifetime cost for the total set ($/year/week/day of use) is likely to be even more skewed toward the 8D's.
I think that at $40 more per 12Vdc set, it would make more sense to me to buy the more robust 8D's and have the vendor wrestle them into place for me (if that were a problem).Neal | | AGM Golf Cart Battery = $303.48 | AGM 8D = $645 | | Length | 10.28 | 20.76 | | Width | 7.06 | 10.89 | | Height | 10.24 | 8.64 | | Terminal Height | | 9.76 | | Weight | 66 | 156 | | Shipping Weight (lb.) | 70 | 166 | | DC Output Voltage | 6 V | 12 V | | Bulk Charge Voltage | 7.10 - 7.30 V | 14.20 - 14.60 V | | Absorbtion Charge Voltages | 7.10 - 7.30 V | 14.20 - 14.60 V | | Float Voltage | 6.55 - 6.70 V | 13.10 - 13.40 V | | Enclosure | ABS Plastic | ABS Plastic | | Group Size | GC2 (Golf Cart) | 8D | | Regulatory Approval | DOT, ICAA, IATA, IMDA | DOT, ICAA, IATA, IMDA | | C.C.A. | 1095 @ 68° / 925 @ 32° / 750 @ 0° | 1975 @ 68° / 1675 @ 32° / 1350 @ 0° | | Amp/Hr | 220 @ 20HR Rate | 255 @ 20HR Rate | | Reserve Capacity | 492 min @ 25 A / 856 min @ 15 A / 1692 min @ 8 A | 550 min @ 25 A / 825 min @ 15 A / 1670 min @ 8 A | | Model: | GPL-4CT | GPL-8DA | | Manufacturer: | Lifeline | Lifeline | | Manufacturer Part #: | GPL-4CT | GPL-8DA | | Made In: | USA | USA |
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I replaced my starting batteries this week. I bought 3 Sears Platinum group 31's. The Sears Platinum are actually Odyssey batteries with a whopping 1150 CCA and a 3 year free replacement warranty.
The best price I could find on Odysseys was $369. Sears gave me commercial pricing since I was buying three batteries. The price was $249 each.
1150 CCA, warranty, and price is hard to beat.
BTW, I finally could get to the batteries after doing the muffler-to-resonator conversion. Thanks Michelle/Steve and Barry for all the helpful posts on doing the conversion on a 2003 320!!!
Well I decided to go into the "bowels" of the coach and find the house batteries.
It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, just more of a nuisance in getting in and out of the bay to get the proper
tools. I was able to dis-connect the negative terminal and should eliminate any parasitic drain.
The good news was that the batteries must have been replaced by FOT when they had it for sale. Shipping date of Jul 2014.
There are 3 batteries -pictured below- but i do not recognize the brand.
Anyone familiar with these? What would be a comparable battery in the Optima Line?
Thanks--Jim
Looks like it says "Exide" gel with a 196 AH rating.
The OEM MK/Deka (East Penn) 8D Dominator gels are something like a 225 AH rating. Deka 8D Intimidator AGM equivalent are 245 AH rating.
At some point make sure your Prosine inverter is set correctly for 3 196 AH batteries - it may require a slightly different setting than the original for optimal charging.
OK Thanks Michelle.
I guess the batteries were a cheaper alternative to the OEM MK/Deka.
Hope to get a few years from them before needing replacement.
Those are high quality gel batteries. Make sure your inverter is set for proper charging voltage-max 14.1. They could last you ten years if you treat them right.
I could not find the charging requirements for the battery in the picture above.
But the charging voltage - max for the Deka 8G8D Dominator Gell Battery is 14.6 volts at 77 degrees F.
Larry
My guru buddy says 14.10-14.15?
Refer to the East Penn Manufacturing Deka Dominator brochure "E.P.M. Form No. 0909 Rev. 4/13."
Larry
The tag on my recent three 8g8d's from them said max charge to be at 14.15 volts? Which was a slight increase from the previous max according to him.
Maybe smaller sizes might be different?
Funny that they also show a max charge battery after a day left unhooked up to anything to be 12.85 volts. My buddy and I both show 13.15 volts after a max charge voltage of 14.10-14.15 and a minumum of fifteen cycles of use.
Pressure build up in the cases past the 14.15 may bulge the cases permanently and/or vent is what used to happen to us. Blew up a lot of batteries before we figured it out.
14.6 last I asked him I think was Agm? We had this discussion many times including last week in person and he was vogues factory electrical systems engineer thirty years ago and constantly has busses and nice Rvs in for major and minor electrical systems work.
I have been testing my coaches system to verify max dry camp capacity for the last two years.
Funny that the website might have errors on it. I see what you noticed but I would not go past the 14.15 that the battery states on it when shipped myself.
My buddy has had lots bulged case DEKA 8g8d's he recycled from too high a charging voltage.
Like I mentioned we have had this exact conversation maybe a half dozen times in the last year. Verified it again this week.
My link 2000 does not seem to accurately show the recharging amp hours after discharge.
My 130 watt solar panel may be involved as its possible its 7 amp charge might not be reflected in the gauges amp hours showing.
If I switch functions on the links panel sometimes the minus amp hours shown change to reflect a lower minus number than before I switched the display from amp hours to percentage to volts.
My buddy said the software might be an old version or the gauge itself funky as its 18 years old or just inaccurste.
Sure would not charge the 8g8d's at 14.6 volts myself after many conversations.
Love to find out that they can be charged that much without damage btw. He said no.
Note the revision date; possibly applies to newer manufacturing date Deka Dominator batteries http://www.dekabatteries.com/assets/base/0909.pdf (http://www.dekabatteries.com/assets/base/0909.pdf) "For 12-V batteries, charge to at least 13.8 volts but no more than 14.6 volts at 77 F (25 C)"
The old brochure, revision date 02/06 says minimum 13.8, maximum 14.1 at 20 C http://www.dekabatteries.com/assets/base/epm0909.pdf (http://www.dekabatteries.com/assets/base/epm0909.pdf) "For 12-V batteries, charge to at least 13.8 volts but no more than 14.1 volts at 68 F (20 C)"
Probably worth a call to East Penn tech support if one has a question relative to their particular Deka batteries (have your manufacturing date handy) as it sounds like something has changed with the newer batteries. They won't be able to help with OP Jim's GNB Exides, though.
Please note that the quoted brochure states the maximum 14.1 is at 20 C.
That makes the charging voltage even further apart between the two brochures.
BTW, I received that brochure after calling Deka. When I purchased our coach from Foretravel in 2013, they had just installed a new Xantrex SW3012 Inverter/Charger. That charger has a Bulk/Absorption charge preset voltage of 14.4 volts. I was concerned about the Deka Dominators being overcharged.
Larry
The Mk battery website shows the Mk 8g8d gel battery to have the max charging rate to be 2.43 vpc at 25 c. That is 14.58 volts at 25 C.
http:/mkbattery.com/images/8g8d.pdf
Sorry, I do not know how to post a link to a website.
Larry
Larry - East Penn is the manufacturer of MK as well as Deka (and several other brands).
Thanks Michelle,
I posted the MK reference to show that both the Mk and Deka gells have the same charging voltage. That means that the Deka brochure is probably not an error in stating a charge max of 14.6 at 25 C.
The orginal OP's battery may indeed have a max voltage of 14.1
I made my post because in the short time I have been a member on this forum, I have seen quite a few reference to a max charge of 14.1 for gell batteries. I just wanted FoFums to be aware that Deka has changed the max voltage on their Dominator gells.
Larry
And thank you for that ^.^d - unless one had recently visited the Deka or MK page, we wouldn't know they had. I certainly didn't and I appreciate finding out about it. The question for East Penn is whether they just changed the charging recommendation or did something physically change in the batteries themselves beginning in 2013. I suspect the latter but don't have any actual info.