http://www.facebook.com/groups/122246917818519/866905680019302/?notif_t=group_activity (http://www.facebook.com/groups/122246917818519/866905680019302/?notif_t=group_activity)
We do not do facebook so cannot look at what you are saying Peter.
JohnH
Here it is :
SUPPLEMENT YOUR MOTORCADE CLUB MEMBERSHIP WITH THE
NEW "CLUB PLUS" OPTION
In an effort to enhance your membership and provide you with greater service, we are giving you an option of supplementing your regular Motorcade Club Membership by subscribing to 'Club Plus' for an additional $25 per year.
In addition to receiving the standard Club membership benefits of:
• Access to Club events & exclusive travel opportunities accompanied by experienced tour directors and a service tech
• 10% discount on Parts & Service (some exclusion, i.e. paint-fiberglass-remod)
• 2-day complimentary campground privileges
• Motorcader magazine and membership Directory
• Access to 'member's only' section of our website
You will receive Exclusive Club Plus improved service benefits:
• Technical questions answered directly by our technical team. (Non-Plus members can submit questions via the internet with a response as soon as possible)
• Exclusive Plus member access to our afterhours emergency call service.
• Special standby service appointments based on space available each week.
o Booked in advance with full description of work to be done
o Foretravel Service will make a good faith effort to get you in within 72 hours
o Service is prepared to work evenings and Saturdays to accommodate you
o Afterhours work will be performed at the normal shop rate
To enroll for Club Plus, cut out & return the form below with your $25 check or call the Club office.
I know this might not be popular but I think it is a great idea that FT is trying to help the club members who are supporting FT. This is what we needed to do a while ago.
Funny, Tys just called Beverly yesterday to renew our Motorcade membership. Listening to this side of the conversation, I don't believe that Beverly said anything about the premium membership option... I will have to ask Tys when she gets back later.
Don
I called and paid yesterday and record no offer.
Rich
We renewed recently as well with no mention of this new classification ...
That said for some reason, ATM, it sounds kind of petty to me :-\ On our last visit it took almost 3weeks to get back in to "finish" what they had started (read broke). I don't think $25 bucks would fix that, and I spend more than that on donuts for the shop anyway. Just my .02
Actually, I think petty is a good word for this... I could understand if they felt they needed to raise the membership price by $25 for everybody and then as a way to make it more palatable, added a few more perks. But this two tier hierarchal thing bugs me.
Well, I think that it was an outcome of the Grandvention. One of the big issues was service lead times and club support as well. The membership has been going down and not as many new people see a reason to join. So, they can give a value for your membership and you get a benefit from it too. They had gone to messages and email for tech questions anyway so this is going back to how it was.
At the recent Ladies Driving School, the men had a "Tech" briefing. I don't recall who the speaker was - someone else who attended may remember his name. Anyway, the speaker went into some ideas they were tossing around the corporate table - ideas about how to improve customer relations. He mentioned that they were considering limiting direct phone access to James Triana. The idea was that only Motorcade Club members would be able to reach him by phone - the rest of the owners would have to rely on email. This would "reward" the Foretravel owners who chose to support the Club (and, by extension, the company). It sounds like "they" decided simply being a "regular" Club member was not good enough...now you will have to be a "Club Plus" member to talk to James. ???
I agree, this may not sit well with many of us long time members, charging extra for the phone support that has always been free, even for non motorcade members.
Am I reading that right? Does this mean work in the remod shop will no longer qualify for 10% discount? That could make a BIG difference in the bottom line on some of those big remodel jobs!
Well, since FT is selling so few coaches a year now, there is no stream of new members. When the new ownership took over there was 1800 members of the MC. Now we are around 800-900 members who pay dues. So, FT realizes that they have to give a reason for people to join. I have read on here why join as it only gives me a 10% discount on marked up parts. So now it seems members will get s few more perks and yes it seems as a stealth increase in dues but they are providing an increase in benefit for it too. I think it is a good idea but then again I think the Motorcade Club is a good idea and it allows us as owners the ability to talk to management. I see this as an answer to the concerns that were raised by the members at the the GV this fall. I am surprised it happened so quickly though and that could be both good and bad if you think about it.
?
I probably broke even this year on the 10% MC discount, maybe even if it went from $80 to $105. I guess time will tell if the Plus members feel like they are getting more. I agree with Don, the two tier thing is troubling. It will separate owners not bring them together.
Foretravel needs to make a serious effort to bring all of the faithful into the tent not just those who will pay more. How many emails did you get from Foretravel this year? More than zero? Did you get a holiday wishes card or email? Did you get news on service or parts specials? The only thing I got from Foretravel was a bill for the MC dues and copies of invoices for stuff I ordered by phone. And the MC magazines, too but I paid for them.
I get two or three emails from Motorhomes of TX every month, a few emails about service and parts specials and a nice holiday email from them too. And I have never had any service done there or bought any parts either.
Communication, especially two way communication is the best way advance everyone's interests, improve products and service and keep those who want to be happy, happy.
Just my opinion, Roger
Roger, you are right about emails and communications from FT being lacking. They have not figured out how do do it and their site is very hard to navigate still.
I agree with Roger in that I got nothing but a magazine and no holiday greeting and paid the required sum, but got a nice greeting from MOT as if I was a regular client and I have never been on their premise. Boy at this rate we are going to be really "Dinged" by Steve and Michelle for their efforts and help thru this Forum. Maybe WE should charge FT for the refferals this Forum has sent their way by way of clients buying a coach because of all you guys with the help you give and support for future Foretravel owners.
Just my opinion which is not worth much, but if you pay another $25 a year I will let you talk to me!!
JohnH
All I can say is "Cut it out, Foretravel". I have seen this in other companies where they take away things and then charge extra to get them back. Leaves a bad taste. We were going to re-join this coming year as we are looking at going full-time, not so sure now. I just don't get their thinking. Are the current owners from down there? When I was there I was struck by the southern attitude to hospitality and service. Seems that it's becoming about make a buck now by whatever means.
Keith
I can certainly understand the desire/need to increase membership, the numbers say so. I'm just not sure this was the best, nor even a well thought out one, to obtain that goal. (if this change has anything to do with that objective).
There are now actually fewer perks for the "base" level, and if there was faltering perceived value in that already, what does that say for it now?
Of course you can choose a "premium" level in which you get closer to what existed, although there are a couple of nebulously defined items, as maybe they are still flushing things out. Some of the "moved" items are the least cost to FT with the most perceived value to the members, ie talk to a human. I'm not ready to see the entire thing as a victory for all fore-kind.
Time will tell if a bifurcated, two tier, motorcade club is a good call vs simply saying "it costs more to keep the club going, but here are some added values to make a nominal cost increase more attractive". Perhaps they worried that doing that would alienate some members, or concerned they would cause more issues with overall increased customer/member expectations in service.
Many of the new perks are around the service end of things. In an effort to possibly shorten the parking lot wait or length of a service visit, time to get an appointment, and perhaps improve satisfaction, you have to pay a bit more. Not sure how that will play out to improve the overall situation of recent times TBH. Just an honest concern, not a dig.
I also don't think the only way you can support Foretravel is by being a "premium" motorcade member, its just one of the ways, and probably the least expensive one :P
Yup...I have rocks in my head. I would have paid the $100 membership if it had increased to that amount for all members. And, I would have appreciated the increased benefits of the "premium" membership. But then again, we can afford it.
Steve,you are right that time will tell on this. I agree that it would have been better to st raise them across the board and put out the benefits but I know there are people who will balk at 100 bucks even though driving to Nac costs more then that in fuel from most places. The club has always been an arms length away from corporate but they are still the same body. Now it is cheeck and jowl and time will see. I think that the realm is the make or break product and I will be watching that closely.
I applaud Foretravel for making James diana available to all owners, and supporting coaches back into the 80's. Dane Miller is obviously looking to see FT make money and perhaps actually see a return on his investment. Thankfully we have the factory and James Triana and the rest of the crew. Yup, they could do things better and maybe fix a few things, but my glass house doesn't allow me to throw rocks....
Let's see, on an airline, I used to get free checked bags, food, and I all the seats have extra room. Now all that has changed. It is called "unbundeling". Lots of companies have done similar as there profit centers either shrink or change over time.
Even at todays prices, $25 or $50 for the service is a few gallons of diesel - might take me 100 miles. And it is at my option, if I don't see value, I can choose to not pay the delta. The fact that they FT is in business and still work very hard to support and provide parts for 1990 era coaches is amazing (and probably not profitable) for them. We are lucky to have great coaches, a great factory, MOT, Xtreme, Steve/Michelle/Brett, Bernd, Insight Ernie, our Aquahot gurus, making our RV cost remarkably low in comparison to many other brands or especially bus conversion.
I want the factory to make money and be around. I am sure there are folks who call the factory for advice (expecting it for free)_ and then buy the parts prescribed off of ebay. If you buy a 15 year old used FT and never spend any money with FT for parts or service, what level of support is deserved? If you do spend money at FT, the premium membership is probably economically a good decision.
I am sure I will get flamed here, but I see how hard the folks at FT work to keep the brand alive and have a profitable business, and feel that they have ever right to charge for their service in whatever way makes sense for them. If it doesn't make ensue for any of us, we can always choose SOB.
I am not too keen on the two level membership, just a price increase seemed better. But I hope this helps. explain why I am glad to pay a bit more for membership if it is now needed (I assume FOT and Motorcade are the same)......
I had a FT owner near me and Jackie at a park with a problem, he knew of me, asked for help. I tried, could not seem to fix it, called Mike Rodgers and left a message. About 10:30 pm Mike called, said that I was number 23 on his list of calls that day. Unfortunately I bothered him for no reason because I had finally figured out the answer to help the FT owner but I had not cancelled the call in to Mike.
I think that kind of service is worth more than the $80 a year, and in that case the money goes not to MOT but to FOT. And yet if that is needed so I could still call James, it is worth it to me. Mike and James are real assets to me and I have called them at time when I needed serious help to keep on keeping on.
Just my view, I appreciate the others. Mike
Well said. MOT and Mike are amazing! In the end, most software companies charge "subscription" fees to support their software no matter if you use them or not. Why not a motorhome?
I've always been skeptical of "clubs". I certainly want to see Foretravel thrive as a manufacturer and I value the resource the people there are..
When I call the parts department there I know the relay I could get at Amazon for $30.00 will be $46.00 at FOT. I still buy from FOT. I don't have to join a club at the Toyota dealer to buy parts or get service... Maybe I'm missing the point but when did being a cash money paying customer become a privilege?
No disrespect intended....
I paid the Membership $ just because .... not even looking at if it had any value, i though it got you a number and a welcome to the party :-) Well just few weeks ago after getting bunch of things done at FT & noticing the discount, to my surprise, at the end of the bill, I sure was a very happy Motorcade Member & will be for as long as i own a FT.
23 calls, let's say 10 min for each call that is 230 min, almost 4 hours or half of a 8 hour work day .... someone has to pay for that somehow.
Now I drive a Dodge and i do not have a Dodge factory membership, but if i was driving a 94 Dodge i am sure factory won't care one way or another ....
FT is a special RV that is IMO and as long as FT owners and employees can keep up the current attitude & the good work they do they will have me for sometime ... I just drooped lets say more than few coach bucks and I was very happy with over all work and experience. If it wasn't for all of you here and what FT does to keep older models on the road for me ... I'd buy / do something else but it would not be this much fun.
As far as Membership or Premium Membership, Gold, Silver .. what ever ... FT should not make the same silly things that airlines do, perhaps just raise it to $100 or what ever and let's hope to keep the good thing going for all.
Sometimes it costs $500 to talk to a politician, who doesn't know anything. It costs $300 an hour to talk to a lawyer, who thinks he knows everything. It costs $200 an hour to talk to a financial advisor who needs to know everything. I think an additional $25 for tech support is money well spent. Sometimes I ask a lot of stupid questions, that need a lot of patience from fot and mot. I will be in Nac in a week or so and will go by and pay my $25 and also give my opinion on a few things. Thanks.
I don't do Facebook either, but I read about lots of problems on Facebook. Since FOT has not mentioned anything about a rate increase or another tier of membership to its club members, is it FOT that posted the note about another tier of membership?
I've been a member off and on since 2004.
In the restaurant industry franchise have conventions and provide specific information to its franchisees on an ongoing basis.
Something that I find interesting is our franchisor is trying to offset obligated costs from the franchisees with little participation in the franchise. Said another way the motorcader magazine is a high end advertising tool for the franchise that is costly to produce an is of little or no value to me. I would rather have stories from Catfish Bob or tech tips from Brett, but someone has to account for its costs. So we increase cost to the franchisee.
Foretravel sets itself apart from other manufacturers but does not communicate or provide deals to us on ongoing basis. The business model is changing, I want them to be successful but it does take effort from them. It's just courteous to communicate to your customer base and the lack of it is remarkable. If they really want to address it and be better and create value in the relationship with owners then there are several things they may consider.
JohnH where do I send my 25 bucks buddy?
here are a few suggestions.
1. reduce the cost of the magazine, give james T a space in it!
2. More staff for james T and service department
3. try to emulate the service times and call back times from this forum!
4. get a consultant fix their website and begin communications with their loyal customer base
( there are several on this forum that come to mind, they don't need any outside consultants)
5.fix the broken internal communication if Beverly doesn't suggest this when people join I wonder
6. hey critical attention to information from there customs and their discussions like our site.
The question here is what is the franchise or willing to do to change attitudes and service within the franchise?
Lets see, A Thousand members at 35 bucks is xxxx dollars, half that many members at 90 bucks is xxxx Dollars, ONE member at a thousand bucks is ... Seems like fuzzy thinking to me. They should be trying to increase membership numbers, not running members off. More benefits might justify higher membership fees but it looks like the members are getting less for more.
The club has never been that good at communicating with its members and looks like its getting even worse.
I have seen other companies go down this same road and they are no longer with us.
Gary B
John S said "When the new ownership took over there was 1800 members of the MC. Now we are around 800-900 members who pay dues. So, FT realizes that they have to give a reason for people to join."
I will happily pay an extra $25 to support FT's effort to improve service. I don't ever remember anyone asking for a MC number when I have called in the past. Maybe they check on it, I don't know. The MC membership has dropped in half. Maybe because they aren't building as many coaches and more members were new buyers but anyone can get a free year of membership when they buy any new or used FT from anyone. Not everyone who owns a FT belongs to or even knows about this forum.
If this is all about money then the $25 from all 800 MC members would only pay for about 4 months of the cost of a James Triana level support person. Better communication to current owners about sales, service, maintenance, parts, tech help and all of the stuff we think about would generate more trips to NAC, more calls to buy parts and a more engaged owner/factory relationship whether the owners are MC members or not.
Maybe we should just all send FT our names and email addresses and ask them to keep us up to date with an email once in a while.
I think everyone here wants FT to thrive and survive. All of the FT support services available in NAC are there because FT exists. Do what we can to keep them all in business and ourselves happy.
Roger
Once again, if "Fore" did not do it then it should not be done. This type of thinking can surely hurt the company. If we want to see this company survive, then we need to support their decisions and work with them instead of talking about how it might appear wrong. I think we all need to realize that this company is struggling and survival is dependent on members here supporting the company. Well, that is my two cents worth.
Bob
Gee, let's see what I would get, seeing as how our coach is a 1989 GV.
Questions re chassis? I'm told to call Freightliner.
Questions re engine? I'm told to call Detroit Diesel.
Questions re parts? I was told to call Encore. (good luck with that one)
Questions re any benefits of belonging to Motorcade? We live up here in Northern Wisconsin. The likelihood of us getting to FOT is not good.
Question of remodeling a 1989 coach that is worth less than any remodel would cost? Guess the 10% isn't going to help us.
Chance of us participating in rallies 1000+ miles away? Not likely.
Goodbye Motorcade!!
So...
All you have to do is pay an extra $25/year and you're viewed as "supporting Foretravel" and get preferred treatment...
but the longtime customer who spends thousands of dollars on parts/service/remodel/etc. at Foretravel can pound sand if they haven't coughed up that extra $25?
You build loyalty through customer appreciation, saying "thank you", and making the customer feel valued, not by telling them they have to join a club AND pay extra for a different membership level to get better treatment.
The timing of this, waiting until just after the annual renewal of MC club memberships is complete and they have the dues money from that, leaves a bad taste in one's mouth. As does the use of something like Facebook, which reaches a miniscule portion of the MC membership, for early broadcast.
+1
Many excellent points have been made.
We've been members for 10 or 12 years since purchasing our first coach. The Motorcade cost has been minimal in comparison to owning the coach and we're glad to pay it, if for nothing else than to support the brand.
Last month a quickly returned phone call from James at FOT (who doesn't know me from Adam) the day before Thanksgiving most likely saved us a tow and got us to Thanksgiving with our kids. That phone call was worth more than I've paid in membership fees since we joined.
We are now in Thibodaux La for a wedding. On the way down we had MOT replace a slide seal and do a complete service and repair a few other little things amounting to several coach bucks. . On our Thanksgiving trip the slide seal had failed so the following Monday I called FOT to see if they had the seal in stock and ask if they could repair it on the way to this wedding a month away. Joshua was very apologetic and said they were scheduling for the end of February, three months away. We purchased this coach at MOT so I called them and Jill got us in and out on the very day we needed. I couldn't have been more pleased with the attitude, atmosphere and the repairs. The southern hospitality at MOT is amazing. We squeezed into their lot on Sunday night, bypassing the much nicer lot at the factory because I wouldn't expect FOT to put us up for the night when we are having repairs made elsewhere, membership or not. That's my take on it after 40 some years of owning my own companies and seeing what some customers expected in return for very little loyalty. I would never call MOT or FOT for advice then shop the part on the web. If it's something I learn on the forum I will gladly shop the part on the web put will still purchase it from Nach even if it costs more.
I want the club, FOT and MOT to flourish. I wish both places encouraged membership in this forum although for legal reasons they have to be very cautious about linking us on their web pages because they could wind up in a lawsuit if someone got their feelings hurt here so I understand their lack of participation from that level.
I will send Beverly another $25 when we get home and consider it a tip. I sure hope they get this all figured out.
Great points Michelle as usual.
If I was an executive and presided over five years where my customer base was cut in half (what has happened with the motorcade club) I don't think I would have a job. Perhaps new leadership with moreProgressive thinking might be in order for the club.
All the complaining that I can think over the last few years with for Foretravel are more related to communication than product.
I agree with John, Michelle and Tim.
I like the 2 big benefits of being a FT owner (and MC member) - the availability of advise from the techs and others at FT and this great forum of experiences, advise and friendships. May not be a result of the MC club but certainly a beginning relationship for this rookie.
Raise the MC fee across the board. No premium fee.
JMHO
jack
The most positive spin I can put on this, is to think like a startup and learn from their mistake. And do better.
best, paul
Tim, If I was an executive with a club that was losing membership and a total failure at communicating with members, and secretive about activities and benefits with prospective members I KNOW I would be looking for another position.
Gary B
Well, a link to Foreforums would be courteous, and a disclaimer should be good enough for the legals.
best, paul
[
That is true as well. Lyle wrote in the owners section of their website that he is adding benefits from corp to the motorcade members. It is a symbiotic relationship and they raised dues last time and lost members. That is the reason we went from 1800 to 900 to 1000, so they made it optional. You still get your 10 percent with the standard membership but the enhanced helps you get an appointment to have service done. They are addressing the issues the best they can and in this I support it. I know at times I have been a tough critic of FT but with this I feel they are doing right by the owners who support the club and the brand.
http://www.foretravel.com/pdf/club_plus1.pdf (http://www.foretravel.com/pdf/club_plus1.pdf)
The latest edition of the MotorCader magazine (arrived here yesterday) contains the same announcement quoted by Peter in the original post, along with the "enrollment application".
So, how much is a Premium Membership?
The premium membership is $75 for the original motorcade fee plus $25 for the premium membership. The total would be $100.
Plus chapter dues if you belong to a regional chapter. Mid-South Chapter (for instance) costs $5 per annum.
Foretravel Motorcoach : Motorcade Club Application (http://www.foretravel.com/inc/motorcade-join.php)
I had to call Roku, which is a streaming TV service, last night and was told that I had to pay $9.95 to talk with customer support. After a few polite but choice words from me they dropped the charge.
I read the notice about Fortravel's new charges telling me I would be a lesser person unless I paid more.
I remember the following:
Recently Escapees had a membership drive to increase membership. Normally $60.00 per year.
Happy Birthday, Escapees! This year, for Escapees 36th birthday, we decided to give a little gift back to you and the RVing community. We are offering a drastically reduced rate for new memberships and renewals. This rate will only be good until October 31, 2014, so be sure and spread the word.
Price: $39.95
A local yacht club that is in need of members is offering a years free membership to all new members who moor in the harbor.
Guess who gave me a warm fuzzy feeling and who did not.
Keith
Well, we have a great club that has to be self sustaining. FT is not producing the number of coaches it did in the past so the new members are not arriving in the numbers they did in the past. To allow those who promote the brand and belong and support the brand is a good thing. You say, you have spent money in service etc and you are now thought to be lesser but think about this. I went to my first chapter rally a long time ago and we had 30 FTs lined up and the people in the camp ground walked by and were in awe back then. We promoted the brand by just being there. We have stories of people buying coaches after taking a motorcade or going to a buddy rally and deciding after talkign to members to sell their coach and get a FT. So, now Corp is going to do a little bit for the members. It addresses a couple issues at the same time. The issue with service scheduling and the issue of keeping the club afloat and making the joining of the club mean more then getting together once a year. I have always been a supporter of the club and as a result, I am happy for any benefit I get for that support.
Actually, seems like quite the opposite. First, it becomes more difficult to get what you have in the past, then they say you have to pay more to regain some of what was taken away. Not seeing "more perks" or "increase in benefit" there.
Reminds me of FMCA and their removal of the FMCAssist benefit. How many members did they anger and lose as a result? Apparently enough that they reinstated that benefit this past October.
?
..
How about a crazy idea? What if there was an associate motorcade? If you raise the motorcade to $100 per year and an associate club member for $ 50 - 60 per year. That will let you get a motorcade number on coach so that you can attend motorcade functions and grandventions and rallies. One night stop over per year at FOT , if not getting service.And 5% at parts. Maybe this would keep the number levels if not grow a little bit . So if reg. motorcade people that don't perceive it as a good value might join and want to be an associate. ???
Well, there was a stink when they raised dues before and many people dropped out. That is ok as that is their right. The issue seems to be an dues increase and a service benefit. They used to try to fit us in when we had a problem but for some reason that is no longer the case. So they are starting with the Motorcade members and will add that benefit back. I think you are right Michelle in that they are putting back what we used to have but we do not have the production to support that so there is changes. They do not have the service shop they had before either so there are changes. I know I can call MOT and say I will be in texas on such and such a day and can you fit me in for this issue I have. They have always said yes and I appreciate it and do not abuse it. I tried to get something looked at over at FOT and they said no so I was at MOT at 9 that morning and they fixed it by 11 and I was on my way the next day. Does that mean I will not pay the extra, no. Do I think that James talking to you on the phone like he used to is a benefit, yes and we used to have it but we have not had it in a while. It was a complaint at the GV. So they are listening to the members who support the brand and take the trips and use the resources they have available to provide for them. Is it perfect, not in the least but it is a start.
Seems to me paying $25 extra for the "opportunity" for more timely service is just not worth it when I can get more timely service down the street at MOT for no extra charge. I have always had my service performed at FOT but this just irks me to no end. I know it is only $25 but it just feels wrong. So much so that on my next trip to Nac I think I'll try MOT given all the good reviews.
Sounds like the $25 is supposed to act like the original purpose of a TIP. T.I.P means To Insure Promptness and was usually given to the Maitre De for fast service.
Turns out it didn't work so the T.I.P. was withheld until after the service.
Kinda wonder how it is going to work at FOT when they are too busy T.I.P.
So what happens if I call FOT to talk to James T about a problem? They note that i paid my dues on time for next year, before hearing about the premium service, so i cannot talk to James like I have so many time in the past. Do I get turned away, or allowed to pay for the call on the spot? Dos this lead to $1/minute to talk to James on a call back, and $10/minutes to get him right away? The meter's running.
Tom, I think you got it right.
Too Many companies now have that T. H... W... Customers attitude anymore and I really hate to see FT go this route, but.... Money talks, I can imagine discussions in the boardroom as to how can revenue be increased, regardless of the consequences.
Gary B
This all boils down to who is a die hard Foretraveler or not. I for one am a die hard who will never buy a class A motorhome other than a Foretravel. So, I don't mind minor indiscretions on the part of management. Remember that if you are not a pert of the solution, you are a part of the problem. So...the folks who have management's ear should kindly give constructive input.
If that was directed at Steve and me, we by far do not "have management's ear". I don't think Lyle Reed even knows who we are.
I have not been shy is saying that FT is not always correct. Tom brings up a good point. You have a 26 month old new IH and you are not a MC member so you do not get to talk to James. That will be an issue so I think that they did not think that thru properly. Maybe instead of saying no talking they could have said faster return call instead.
This whole issue is so sad really. I know many companies do not like to talk or be contacted by people who buy their product and "push" the problems with the product to a list of questions already set up to hopefully pacify the buyers, BUT, we are not talking about a $10 or $1000 product here as this involves a hell of a lot of money that some people have to take out a mortgage/loan to buy. This in itself to me deserves a "direct line" to service/parts etc when something goes wrong.
Think about it, Mr and Mrs X decide to trust this company with a life savings purchase to try and enjoy some free time or be their home for however long they decide and going down the road it fails!! Panic sets in normally and then suddenly they say" lets give FT a call and get us help"
The answer comes back " sorry but we are busy for 3 months and Mr J T will get back to you when he can, which may be tomorrow or the next day"
This to me would be a kick in the ass.
But wait, there is this thing called Forum online, maybe we try that and you know what, within an hour if the problem is not solved there are numerous suggestions of what to try and where help can be found. This to me is service.
I would suggest that FT spend the Motorcade money (around $95,000 a year) and hire a tech that is there to answer these problems!! Forget the Grandventions etc etc as all that is trying to do is sell more coaches but if the help is not there when needed the rest is mute to me.
I still say make it one price for all without any cuts or additions to membership and maybe $100.
JohnH
I have owned my Foretravel for 8 plus years, Got my free membership into the "Club" for the first year, then bought into the next year. After that I did not see the "Value" in the "Club" membership and I dropped out. I have been out for five plus years now, The Membership fee did not provide the value for me. I have a full set of "as built prints" and "wiring diagrams", that came with my coach, to facilitate many of the issues I have had to address. If that does not solve my problem I turn to "Foreforums".
That being said This, "FOREFORUMS" membership, would be worth every penny of the dues Foretravel thinks their "Club" is worth. With the exception of a few custom parts I can find almost all components needed to maintain my coach online, from the original manufacture. ^.^d
OK Why should we pay extra for service time. If this drives one customer down the road Foretravel looses. Even if only $25.00 it sounds like a nickle and dime on Foretravel owners. They indicate that the membership in the motorcade club is less every year and why? When you only allow Foretravel owners to be in the club and only produce about 30 units a year then where are new members coming from. Resale units mean new member in and old member out//even nr. There is no path for growth for the motorcade club unless the old base is increased from existing owners who have for some reason chosen not to join. As motorhome owners we join many clubs and organizations, so at some point you have to choose which ones actually benefit your motorhome use. Foretravel if you follow this forum you need to use it and embrace it to help grow your product and club. DAN
Lets think of it from FT point of view. They want toe club to grow to sell more coaches. They sell a bunch in the past to the members and the new owners have not been joining up so this might be the tool to get them to join as well. The club is a group of people that hopefully will buy another coach. I have always been a supporter of the MC as I find that I got value from it. The friendships I made thru the club is the main thing and the ability to meet once a year at least and see people and to know I am welcome at the other chapter rallies and know that I know people there too as I travel the country. This forum does the same thing in a way as the MC club does and FT does know what they read on this. In this case, from FT perspective they have been using James on the new deliveries and trouble shooting them more and more as well as the installed base is getting older and requiring more work. This has already changed the call going to James directly to a message and a call back. I know in talking with him that they prioritize the calls based on where you are. The side of the road gets first call back while i can not turn only TV gets last. Maybe this could have been better handled but they are trying to address the issue that you get nothing for your membership. The fact is that the bulk of us did not buy our coaches from FT directly so they make only service and remodel on our ownership. They hope to make a new sale but that seems to be in question as they are making coaches that do not match up with what we own. I for one think maybe it could have been handled a bit differently in its roll out but the concept seems sound from their side.
I personally would say that Foretravel does not consider the club as a source for new owners. Time has proven itself that members of this forum as well as the members in the club have no intentions of purchasing a newer rig. The club was formed many years before the current owners took control and it is a courtesy it still exists today. As for James, he is a source of knowledge but his time is limited. To consider that the company should out of the goodness of their hearts make his service free is not good business sense. Time will come when James retires as well as the few remaining old timers at Foretravel.
Bob
I can see a more significant (I would say 'sinister' but that is probably being overly dramatic) issue to us than a $25 fee increase.
Two years ago I had almost $12,000 worth of remodeling done and received a $1,190 Motorcade discount. Seems not so under the "current?" policy.
A couple of questions:
How long ago did the above exclusion go into effect? (any recent remod bills reflect the lose of the discount?)
Is a change in Motorcade fee structure just a handy way to realign significant services?
John S,
Well said my friend, and it was great to meet you in person at the GV in TN.!
I don't know - maybe it's just me, but seems like a lot of energy over $25 additional charge for a wonderful service.
Every time I fly Southwest Airlines, I buy the best value ticket I can find (Sometimes as low as $69 each way! Then I pay the $10 each way to get on after the folks that paid full price, but before anyone else that wouldn't pay the $10. In that way I get the most affordable transportation and the best transportation experience I elect to pay for.
Same deal here - Southwest, United and Foretravel are all in the business of making profit, and if they don't there is no James Triana at FT. If you don't need access on a faster basis to James, don't join MC and don't pay the premium price. If it weren't foe this forum, FT would probably have to charge us older model owners a "subscription" fee to access James a long time ago, but lots of questions get answered here that would have otherwise gone to James.
And I suspect that if buy a new IH, you probably get more than a year free in MC club at the premium level. If you didn't in the past, it would surprise me if they didn't going forward.
Happy 2015 Everyone!!!
Definitely two major changes, but again, they (FT) are allowed to maximize their return on investment (profit) any way they wish. The remod shop is VERY busy (as is I suspect the Paint shop) and is booked out for many months. FT is obviously trying to make more $$$$ profit. FT is trying to maximize profit, and as long as supply is fixed and there is more demand than supply, why discount? If this were a public company, most shareholders (Dane Miller) would be pushing for and applauding all of FT's recent decisions.
Truth is, the only way FT can make money on the used coaches is resale, remod, Paint, and parts. Yes, we feed the ecosystem and support the brand, but the average value (profit per unit) declines steadily as the units age, since on average we spend less and less at FT as these units age.
That being said, we can all choose to respond in any way that we like. Pay the "higher" rate, or find alternatives for the work (MOT, Insight, Bernd, Xtreme) in NAC and other quality shops around the country.
Business owners make policy and strategy decisions that we get to vote on with our wallets. Capitalism at work!
John, well put...from a (relatively) new MC member's perspective, the rallies have afforded me the chance to connect with other like-minded FT lovers, learn a ton of new info about the workings of this amazing machine, & meet some of the most "first class" people on the planet! In less than a year I've attended 3 MC rallies (with at least 3-4 more planned for this year) & the ladies' driving school, had some repairs done at FOT, & I feel every bit of it well worth the effort & expense.
The MC club may not be for everyone but I can say it is a bargain to me, & this fantastic forum of course is the icing on the cake! $25 seems a small price to pay for the extra features that this premium membership would bring, I plan to update mine.
Folks, I see it differently. A hundred bucks a year for fast tech service, the social organization, it's not nickle and diming, it's the DEAL OF THE CENTURY! Give Ford or GM a call and see if their engineering staff will agree to a similar arrangement to support your Chevy Chevette, along with stocking parts for your 20 year old car, providing drawings when needed, and disregarding liability issues of support. Oh yeah, throw a get together once a year also...
This is a tough crowd, and I'd be willing to wager largely composed of free market capitalists. Bet some of you even have a copy of Atlas Shrugged or The Fountainhead tucked away. Foretravel is a business, and the part of that business that supports these near antique vehicles is, in my opinion, very close to a charitable endeavor. I am happy they are willing to not only maintain but enhance this support, even if a token amount of $ is involved. The alternative, from a bottom line perspective, is not at all attractive for the owners of these mature coaches.
I wouldn't be too concerned about the people who buy a new IH45. I suspect they will have good access to tech support whether they join or not.
Moderation in all things, throwing around statements like "rammed down our throats", "dictatorial" and other confrontational statements regarding this minor policy change could possibly toggle an entirely different outlook on the value of factory support, and community building.
AMEN!
Have been trying to transmit the same message in my posts, but you have summed it up much better than I.
Just like out Forum community which attracts people because of their common interests and because they see value I hope FT is trying to build a stronger community of owners. Maybe they buy parts, come for service or remodels or paint, maybe they will buy a newer coach or a brand new coach. Customer loyalty is strongest in their own community. How many of us bought a FT because of what we found out about them from other FT owners? I did.
The MC club is a good way to help build that community and an extra $25 is not a big deal. I would like to see FT try to be more inclusive, get more to join, offer more to all, communicate better with everyone even if they are not in the MC Club rather than create a divided exclusive segment.
It is nice to see the range of opinions here to consider Our Forum is a great place. A very wonderful New Year to everyone!
Roger
I can't recall how many times I've called Nac for tech advice and information. We have only had our Ft a couple of years and are very pleased with the service we receive there. Being a farmer, I have a number of tractors, trucks, and farm equipment that does not receive the technical help or advice that can be acquired from fot or mot on a ft. I believe most of us on this forum earned a living the old fashioned way, we had to work for it. Therefore we recognize good service when we see it. The additional $25 is a world class bargain in my opinion, I will pay it and say thank you. Nac for me is like a kid in a candy store, it's a fun place to go. Without it a lot will be lost, so be supportive and understanding.
I just noticed this in the list of benefits.
Went to the FOT website -> Owners Club. There is a Username/Password input field but I have no idea what my username/password is. Look around the page and don't see anywhere to register or have my password emailed to me. I assume my MC number is the username but still don't know the password.
Foretravel Motorcoach : Motorcade Club (http://www.foretravel.com/inc/motorcade.php)
Does anyone have a username/password? What's behind this mysterious 'member's only' section? Anything worth bothering with? Who designs a website membership page with no way to register or get your password?
see ya
ken
The real problem is this: too many people, in the MC club, and at FT rely on one man for all their problem solving. This is a bad bad bad idea.
Well actually there are two of them now. That is why they are using the internet I think. They rotate the phone among 4 of them every night and weekend so they all only have it one weekend a month. So, while we call James and he is the pint of contact there are others that can and do step in and help as well.
Ken,
I did
exactly the same thing you did, with exactly the same result/question. I finally looked back through my old email archive, and found a note from Beverly Koonce that listed my user name and password. If you look at the "Motorcade Club Application" you'll see the first 2 entries are where
you (at some long-forgotten time) supplied these items.
Foretravel Motorcoach : Motorcade Club Application (http://www.foretravel.com/inc/motorcade-join.php)
Logging in gives you access to club news, club membership rosters, Top Secret messages from the President, etc. This "Login" page has a link for "lost password" recovery.
Foretravel Conversions : Upcoming Events (http://www.foretravel.com/inc/login.php)
@Chuck Thanks! Would not have found that page without your help. I did take advantage of the "If you have lost your Username or Password click here". Here is what I received.
see ya
ken
Also on the "members only" section of the FOT site are lists of the members, not available of course to the general public or casual readers. I really don't remember setting up the user name & password but got my memory refreshed when I called Beverly for help trying to figure out how to get them!
My feelings are very similar to John S and Tim. and no I wasn't directing the statement that if you are not a part of the solution you're part of the problem to anyone specifically.
I've always thought that the way Foretravel provides technical assistance by phone/emails is a uniquely exceptional service to owners.
I agree that the recent changes do not seem to have been well thought out. This forum's membership also happens to be comprised of very knowledgeable Foretravel owners. Constructive criticism not communicated remains silence.
If Motorcade management feedback for changes to its benefits is the reduction of membership, then the club will no longer exist in a matter of years.
Time will tell as I do not believe anyone will actually communicate their grievances about these changes to the MC Club.
Let's face it, we spend more than $25 in tips whenever we travel. but if you're stuck with your Foretravel during the trip, the $25 expense to talk and get assistance from a technical person from the factory is invaluable.
Funny thing happened after I wrote my feelings on this subject, I received 6 emails or foreforum messages agreeing hole heartedly with my comments within 30 mins of the posting.
Another point I see missed in some of the later posts. Looking back I notice that quite a few people have actually said they do not mind a "jump" in fees as long as this two tiered system is dropped.
I still think they should hire or have one of the brains , or even any person that can take note of a problem and immediately follow it thru' with staff to try and find an answer asap especially if you are stuck somewere. Common sense surely tells you that you may have to wait while they figure this all out but the knowledge that at least they are trying is worth the fee.
We are one of a few that live so far from Nac that we rely on this Forum for answers and feel that it gives out more immediate help to people than the factory could. I also feel that I have got to know far more owners thru the Forum than I could ever get to know at one of the organized rallies. The Q ralley will consist of all like minded owners by the sounds of it and that is good.
So, the bottom line for me is that FT should have just sent out a note to us all saying "Due to the cost of doing business etc we have had to increase the Annual Fee to $100 anf hope that you all understand our position. We are trying to increase the level of 'call back" service at the same. Thank you for being a Foretravel Owner" Have a healthy New Year.
JohnH
today the NFL and major league baseball have instant replays to review the recent calls OFFICIALS make. But before these bad calls are reviewed, someone has to complain about the call in order to get a review.
If we don't complain, we lose the game, that is the MC Club dies a slow painful death.
My hope is that with constructive feedback to management, improvements will be made.
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Bitching about $25 fee is down right hilarious. Seriously, take a step back and look at this from afar. $25, most here pay more than that for one night at a camp site. Let's up it to total fee. $100 (or whatever it is with $25 added in). Seriously, you own something that cost 20-200k or more to purchase. You pay plenty in taxes, insurance, maintenance, etc. I don't get it.
I'm not in the motorcade club. But I live far away from texas, don't see myself making a special trip there to get work done, and haven't bought any parts from FT. I've made a call in once and got a reply, which I was appreciative of, but the information given to me wasn't that great. But, I can see why...I never spent money at FT. FT probably wouldn't provide me with extra Drawings or Manufacturer part numbers anyway, so there is no point in me trying to ask....I'll leave that up to the people that have more developed relationships with FT.
I may join in the future, but the social aspects of the club are not something I would use. I'm in a completely different demographic than most FT owners, haha.
I'm on these forums for information to fix my FT.
Larry, with all due respect to you, how can it be an improvement for the majority when the "new system" takes away the benefits that you have enjoyed (or at least had if needed) for many years and now told that you go to the bottom of the line and get less of a % refund on monies spent there?
Cannot get my head around that comment at all.
Like I said (and this is my last one) increase the fee for all without the need for a two tiered system!
Seems simple to me!!
JohnH
This was posted before reading Krush's comment and he seems to agree with mine too.
I don't see anyone complaining about an increase of $25, it's the creation of "classes" of MC membership and the deletion of benefits/decreased service response for the new "classic" or shall we say "lower class" level of membership.
As to an across-the-board increase potentially driving away members, what do they think this change is going to do? It's not going to increase membership, that's for sure, and it probably will be deleterious to service revenue.
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Michele: You are correct, appears this may hurt more than help. If in fact they do not allow a 10%
discount in remodel then, a current benefit is lost even if you become a plus member. I had planned to use the remodel for a fridge and sofa and possibly front chairs this year and I was only looking to get it done at FOT; now I will entertain a bid from MOT and maybe some others. If FOT cannot schedule my work within a reasonible time there are other places to do the job on a schedule which works for me. Don't get me wrong I had rather get the work done at FOT but they are not the only place to get quality work done. When they assign others ahead because of a club membership I get upset about that. DAN
well this side is a loyal customer base for for travel.
OVER 80 POSTS in less than 36 hours! Methinks that someone that monitors this site May have some decisions to make!
Like I said hire the consultants here to help them fix Communications the website and service ideas!
I think Michelle got it right! Two tier systems do not make the members of the lower tier feel appreciated. If the MotorCade Club is a social organization maybe it should stand-alone, with the dues the same for everyone that is a member.
Then Foretravel, the company could establish an "Owners"; Technical, Information, Support system, Parts discount, Extended camping @ Foretravel, ect., that any owner could subscribe to by the year. That would be the source of knowledge direct from the factory experts and discounts on Parts and Services. I would envision a system similar to "Mitchel Automotive" that many automotive service facilities subscribe to. Most custom vehicle manufactures do offer some type of assistance for a reasonable amount of time, It's just that Our Foretravel Motor Coaches last so long that we require more years of back up technical help.........
Michelle: Another thing if FOT was smart and listening to their real base then they would contact you about adding a point on their web sight which leads you to this site. Open forum is the only way to get a varity of opinions and thoughts from across the country. Everyone will not agree but opinions should matter especially from loyal FOT owners who have put thier product at the top of the industry by purchasing new or used. This forum gets quick answers to issues and I would say from someone who has experienced the same issue. I have never been able to get thru the phone mase at FOT when I have a mechanical issue, but the forum is always there and as a group certainly has knowledge of systems etc. in Foretravel and all years. I have other products which have owner's forums and are a branch of the manufacturer website. So far Joshua has always worked me in so as long as I can get on the schedule I will be there. I always call about a month in advance and that should be enough lead time. DAN
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Attending the GV in TN two years ago, I got the sense (from Bev Koonce) they (FT) monitor the site, but wouldn't promote it due to the positive comments regarding places like Extreme, Bernd, MOT, Insight, etc.
Not sure I blame them but if I was a sales guy for them selling a 1990's or 2000's used coach I would certainly make sure my prospects/customers knew of the FoFum forum - huge plus for the brand.
I really did not see anyone complaining about $25 in terms of the increase, but instead about the changes (loss) in what you get (levels).
I'd guess that anyone that uses FOT for service or wants to talk to James will pay the extra $25, especially given it is an insignificant amount. You can't even get a FT logo shirt for that.
Overall maybe that will lower the "phone time" on James, but I also find it odd that after he was promoted to a Director position they did not have a solid transition plan to move that responsibility away from him, or just use him as needed for the extra tough ones. I know everyone just wants to talk to James, but times change, move along.
The preferential service treatment for "premium" simply does not sit right with me, nor will it. Sure I get the ivory tower idealism but that's not what it is.
First if you use FOT for service you will probably gladly pay for this benefit, but in the end you will have the same large group fighting for overbooked service spots, such that the benefit will likely be of little practical use. Its simply an increase with no practical benefit, and frankly that's fine, "it is what it is".
Second, to me, it makes the statement that says Foretravel does not truly hold any value to a loyal customer, .... none. It matters not if you go there every year, purchased your coach there, use service, remodel, paint and body, alignment, or even been there through the extra thin times. No, what matters is that you slipped them $25 bucks.
You can see it now, members who have been negative about the service, parts, paint and body for years, even refusing to go there and steering people away, now can get premium treatment for $25 bucks. And no I'm not calling anyone out so don't anyone go getting their front end out of alignment. A few years back I personally refused to use them for a couple of years, due to some issues. In the end, its my wallet and I'll open for whom I want. I went back due to the nagging thought that its better to have them around, yes loyalty, perhaps misplaced or just not reciprocal.
Anyway this all fits in line with what you see in many of today's limited margin businesses, its all about the Benjamins, or Jacksons in this case, no longer about the customers. There are however places where the opposite is true, and they do excellent work on ForeTravels as well, and if I give them an extra $25 its for a job well done ;)
Gee, I wish we had a "Like" button, Steve - I agree with you totally.
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My two cents worth: This isn't a case of either/or but all of the above. Motorcade provides a benefit to some owners, but maybe not all. FOT, MOT, Extreme, et al also provide benefits to some owners. This forum provides benefits to those who belong. I suspect that there are people who joined the forum and then left. Some of those may own Foretravels, but I suspect that most don't. Why do some patronize those businesses that cater to Foretravels, join Motorcade, or participate on this forum and others don't? Who knows. Some owners are simply too far from Texas to use the services in Nac. Others do their own work or have a trusted mechanic where they are. Some people simply aren't joiners and won't have anything to do with any sort of club. Some don't have computer access or don't want to join.
We still have it better than some others. If you want to see a real mess take a look at the great-granddaddy of RV clubs - the Wally Byam International Caravan Club. They've been fighting with themselves for years, and then wonder why they can't get new members. No factory support for the club, no free membership for the first year, etc.
Larry, you might be right. However, I'd just say that if it weren't for Foreforums. I wouldn't be a Foretravel owner.
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I used Parliament in St. Pete last few years. Averaged 3 coach bucks a year. Parliament honors MC 10% discount, saved me $300 a year, more than pays for MC.
Guess I will finally add my 2 cents. To me, this forum's value far exceeds any other Foretravel resource to me, including Foretravel itself. Ever since I bought my first Foretravel (1999?) and found the old Yahoo group, this group of fine folks online have shared much BETTER information than I have ever obtained from the factory, and in a much faster and responsive way. I have gotten wrong information from the factory (expensive) in the past, seen and experienced poor workmanship in repairs, and had other issues with FOT in the past. So since my current life situation does not lend itself to attending motorcade events, I haven't been a member for many years as there doesn't seem any value to be had for any amount of dues.
Sad to say, I think a lot has changed with FT since the mid-2000s, as they made the decision to start building larger, more expensive, and FEWER motorhomes. That necessarily will force a dramatic reduction of their NEW customer base. The number of customers buying used coaches can only suffer further decline by attrition as time goes by and the older coaches (built in much greater annual numbers) eventually fall into disarray and are replaced with a fewer number of passed-down coaches annually . Lucky for us, that will take some time, as many of the coaches back to the 1980s are still very functional. That all has to take a toll on the number of folks participating in the Motorcade Club...
Frankly, if the club is surviving on 1,000 people paying $80 a year, I would think the company COULD choose to make it a nearly FREE benefit for owning a Foretravel and get a lot more members that way. Here's a little mathematic equation: When you are selling coaches at $1,300,000, one could add the cost of the entire motorcade program to a single coach in the form of a 6% surcharge to that one coach and have the entire program paid for! But to nickel and dime current members for $25 more, while also dividing their customers into a total of three groups and three "levels of service", well, that just does not seem sound to me. But I'm not in charge. They will do as they like.
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Well I am going to break my promise of silence because I am reading too much that is inaccurate for my mind.
If FT does not care about people who do not buy one of their Coach's from them then the whole business will fail fast. Every one that is bought is a potential for more business one way or another and if they give good value and service a good number of sellers will replace with another.
This quote earlier that FT does not recognize the Forum because we talk about other companies in that area is crap. FT cannot meet the demand now hence the backlog so heaven help them if no other business was able to do the necessary repairs but them. Clients would have to wait a year!!
If you live within a day of Nac then I guess you would go there for service especially if you cannot (or do not want to) do it yourself, or heavans, go to another shop!!
I live 3000+ miles away and many others also too far to have our coach flatbedded to Nac so that is a "no brainer I would hope" and after all once it is built it really is only a heck of a lot of bits that are used in many coach's that can be and are fixed quite successfully in other places.
I get the feeling that this mess is only because the profit from the building of new units is not there any more so they have to go for the service side and do not want to loose out to another outfit. I also feel that actually FT and Lyle Reed are quite happy that the Forum is around as they could not handle the telephone calls and work that is saved by us fixing things via this Forum. They would have to double the service area and double the labour to try and keep up and obviously thay do not want to throw any money at it right now.
If 23 owners were the only ones that took their coach's to FT last year and they are backlogged this far just think what it would be like if more did it. These figures cannot be a true representation of the facts along with other remarks.
I also thought that FT was a company that followed the Church but in the comments referenced to Beverly they did not show a "Love thy neighbour etc etc" if they are true quotes? I hope not.
I love my FT and as some know have bought a couple or so because of quality but as I live so far away it does not make sense to take it there so I can be one of the "GOOD " people. We also do not fit the style of conventions but like to meet people when we want and ones that will be interesting to us. That is why Q will be fun. We have met some nice people on the road who we now look upon as friends.
End of rant as some say.
My entire working career I always tried to foster a constructive environment and welcomed any and all constructive criticism. It made for a much more successful environment and company. What led to some companies downfall were the beancounters.
I have watched and learned from so many of the Foreforum participants and value and respect their opinions.
With the future of Foretravel in mind why can't our most qualified members put together some type of plan/proposal/suggestions for the Motorcade and the FOT to succeed and prosper. It seems in our best interest to assist the FOT organization wherever we can in order to prevent each one of ending up with "orphan" coaches.
Just a thought
Because, Larry, with whatever respect is due to you, I cared to comment and I do care about Foretravel enduring. That's why I commented, should you really need an explanation.
I have a LOT of history with FOT and, more importantly, this forum group. I wish FOT and the Motorcade "division" would take steps to make it better and more conducive to my (and others) returning to the Motorcader fold. I also am entitled to express my opinion that I, too, consider creating a three-tiered support system as a negative development. You don't have to agree.
Carol and I are MC members and have had some work done at FOT. Have not had work done at MOT or Extreme yet.
I do have mixed feelings about the way and how this increase has been established and implemented. To date I have not received notification from the MC group re: the increase. Will we pay the extra $25.00? I don't know. I must admit that I have talked to the FOT techs and mostly they have not helped us. Most of the technical support that they have provided have not been helpful so I opt to not call them now.
It must be noted that they have been quite helpful to many here and the support group derserve Kudos for that.
It again appears that the FOT management group has some challenges when it comes to communicating with it's Owners/Members. This is just the latest issue. We have no idea as to their business plan and how they wish to conduct their business nor do we have control. We can choose to support the company or not. Use their services or not. Pay the additional $25.00 or not.
Because I am a member here I have the right to my opinion and it should not be or bashed. JMO. I also happen to own a Foretravel.
We did spend a bundle in the renovation shop recently and honestly, a 10% discount is BS as the final hours charged is reviewed and adjusted. Mr Flanigans Dept. did a great job and we are glad they did the reno. work.
I guess the only question one must ask is whether or not the cost of MC membership, regardless of the level, delivers the services one believes he is entitled to.
So, lets look at it from another side. The Motorcade club has many members who are currently active who have purchased multiple units. They also have lots of people who use the remodel shop and are FT strongest customers. I talked to Lyle about this change a couple days ago. In discussing the increase it is two fold. It is a response to the club members saying they wanted more for being a member and FT listened. Also, it will pressure the service people to provide more timely service to people who now are marked as wanting it and have paid to be plus. I know I have put on well over 370K miles on three FTs and there are owners in the club with over 500K and others who have purchased 13 coaches over the years. So, when you say that the entire club budget can be made up with one sale, you are probably right so, they just made 800 owners happy and one or two of them will buy a coach and that will increase sales by 10 percent. It is the right thing to do for the company and if it keeps them in business then that is great. We have a reprieve here with the economy and fuel prices and I hope that FT uses it to increase sales. There was also a survey in the motorcaded as well that I thought was even more important. It asked if FT built a lighter smaller coach then they are now, and Lyle mentioned it wouldn't have the big engine, would there be an interest. He need about 10 people to say yes to tool up the new coach. This is the direction I think they should go as well. In thinking if I would buy another coach from FT, I have concluded that I do not want a fancy coach that is 13 plus feet tall. I do not want all the electronics and fancy floors and slides. I would build a 38 foot non slide like my old 270 with aqauhot and a residential fridge. If they can bring that in at about 500K they could have a winner.
:headwall: :headwall: :headwall:
and that last line just leaves me speechless
Well, I just reported my conversation. The part that I thought was important was they realize there is a problem. Now the solution is another issue.
I have a couple of thoughts to share.
One is that I have always been impressed and completely impressed that Foretravel is willing to offer free telephone support to owners who bought their coaches used. I live too far away to make use of their facilities for service and remodel, but do often use the parts department. I never thought of the phone support as a MC benefit, but making it one now makes economic sense.
I don't condsider $100/year for the club excessive. I would gladly pay that just for the club events. Until now I have only been able to make one or two a year, but see my participation as increasing now. I also look to making use of the Lady's Driving School next year. I already have an Escapee membership so I can use their co-op parks and possibly rally's, and have an FMCA membership for events and added benefits. Both are very worth the cost to me. Good Sam is another matter, I don't even know why I keep that one active.
I too am speechless. I gather anyone who does not pay the $25 extra according to that quote is going to be last in line and that is NOT good business sense. Whatever became of "first one first"?
Every new day brings up new revelations that do not sound good.
JohnH
One returned call from James can be worth the 25.00. I don't know of any manufacturer willing to take a service question on a 90s model anything, must less for free.
While I wish the additional charge wasn't necessary, I understand.
As I have stated. If you want my business I am not going to beg or pay dollars to spend my money there for service. As long as they treat me right I will be there. I have seen no sign that Foretravel will not become better and better in the service department.
This may be good for a few and more power to them but if you live close then I am flexible as to time, just will not wait more than 30 to 40 days out. I can get service several places. I go to Foretravel for the parts but if necessary I can pick those up and take to other places for install. I don't see this as such a big deal at this point. I think some owners need tech calls; for me, I have the forum. So this will not change anything for me. As to 10% discount on remodel I will take estimates and look at final cost to decide where I will get the remodel done. Many on this forum have it done elsewhere and it looks great. DAN
Not to digress too much -
Dan you are correct. Time spent and hours charged will determine the final cost. ;D
What I think is funny is that people are complaining of a small increase in Motorcade membership fees when fuel costs $400 a tankful. Most people will have saved many times that with the recent drop in fuel costs. As far as "first goes first", I guess you have never ridden first class on the airlines to avoid the crush that occurs in coach. I personally have used email to contact tech support often. That way I can contact them in the middle of the night and get a response first thing in the morning. With new coaches costing nearly a million dollars, $100 a year is a miniscule percentage of the cost to maintain tech support. While you may own a coach the costs in the $100,000 range the current costs of new units is more reflective of personnel and facility costs and concurrently the need to increase other fees.
The complaints I am reading have absolutely nothing to do with a dues increase because there isn't one. It has everything to do with creating different "classes" of members while telling longtime customers any past support of the business is now meaningless.
The only mention of folks upset about a dues increase was John S. saying (in several posts in this thread) that in the past too many people threatened to drop out of MC when the idea of raising dues was suggested.
Steve, you seem to have not read mine or others posts as we are NOT complaining of a rise in costs just the "rules that go with it"
Your question of whether I have flown first class on an airline is being very personnel but actually I used to go 2 times a year to England to visit my Parents using Executive First for many years if you must know(and it came out of my pocket too) and in fact a few weeks ago came back Business on BAirlines.
My "first one first" was maybe not worded right as I meant to say that if I made an appointment with FT on the 6th then I would expect any one booking time after me would be for the next time available AFTER me. Not the value of coach taking precedence.!!
We have no interest paying $1m+ for a coach that has more problems and does not satisfy our needs any better than the current one.
I do get what you are meaning though and that is that you have a newer model than me so therefore you are more important. What a pity and I truly feel sorry for you then.
JohnH
Loyalty to customers and loyalty to companies are a thing of the past. I've had the same insurance company since I was 17. They'd drop me like a hot potato if I did not meet their criteria for a "good risk".
If you chose to buy a company's product, it's because you find value in doing so. Same goes for any service or parts we buy.
If FOT finds that creating member tier levels in the the MC Club suits their business plan and future growth for club membership, then so be it. I travel to Nac maybe once in a few years and have never gone on Motorcades. Even so, the $25 is immaterial to me. I suppose I'll be whatever MC Club tier I want to be, and so will others.
All this will not improve the current level of service, parts prices/discounts or service lead times in the long run. The FOT management has to address that issue with more attention to the customer satisfaction feedback they get from current customers.
Do we get an extra little "+" decal to add to the member decals on the front and rear of the coach? :)) Sorry, Couldn't help myself.
Nick
Greetings, I am interested in "Lifetime" membersh! We, no I belong to several. My lodge, scottish right, good sams, Warrantt Officers association.. I think a couple more.
Is that possible
Please define lifetime. Whose life? Your life, that of your 1989 GV, FOT under the current management or ownership?
ok Tom, I will grant you that we have a unique perspective and your comments are valid.
As to the aforementioned memberships they all are based upon a individual's life and in my case both our names are on them, except tWarrant Officer Association.
That would require a bylaws change. There are only five lifetime memberships and they are awarded by the BOD for service to the club right now and they have to die to be replaced.
John, ok a 5 year membership or 10 year membershippoint being that they wanted to generate funds and they do,time to look outside the box!
(I agree with virtually all of Brad's comments, but quoted only a few to conserve space.)
I personally cannot understand "who" Foretravel is--or "who" they want to be. This was really "driven home" by two recent events.
First, we were in New Orleans during Christmas, and saw a large number of coaches coming through the French Quarter RV Resort. Several of those were Entegra coaches, but none of them were Foretravels. Since I knew nothing about Entegras, I went to their Website and was well impressed; they do an excellent jobs of showing why one should buy their product. Then, I went to Foretravel's Website and was reminded that they appear to be way "behind the times" when it comes to Website design and marketing.
The second event occurred when our son told us that we are now closer to 2030 than we are to 2000. That really made me stop and think.
It's clear (at least to me) that Foretravel's thinking (and marketing and parts and service availability--especially ease of technical information and parts ordering) is still much closer to 2000, and that they will be lucky to make it to 2030. This is really sad, and I hope they can decide to really build products that people want and can afford and then will properly market them--and make a profit, rather than the "nickel-and-dime" approach they seem to now want to employ to get a little more money out of current owners.
"The complaints I am reading have absolutely nothing to do with a dues increase because there isn't one. It has everything to do with creating different "classes" of members while telling longtime customers any past support of the business is now meaningless."
I have to say that I find this business of of an "elevated" Membership level rather insulting on several levels. First, it implies that the folks in the Service Department have been instructed to give different attention to customers who call and need assistance or an appointment. I have never been turned away when we had an urgent need with an issue and my calls for technical support were almost always returned in a very timely manner. If we had an issue that needed to be negotiated with the Service, Parts or Billing Department we were always able to reach an acceptable compromise. If I needed an appointment because of an urgent issue and I could get to the Factory, they always tried to work us in promptly. THAT is why we return to the Factory for service and THAT is why we retain our membership.
Second, I cannot understand the thinking that an "elevated" membership level would be considered more attractive when we are given the list of "bonuses" that are attached to that new level. What I see is that is you pay some extra money, the already polite employees at Foretravel will be EXTRA polite, the appointment schedule may magically have an opening when you want it (even if you have no emergency), or James Triana may return your call while he is trying to eat his lunch instead of waiting to return to his desk.
This whole issue has been bungled by people who are just VERY bad at marketing and communication. If there had been a letter from the Motorcade group that "due to the state of the universe, dues would be an additional $25 per year", I would not have blinked. What a huge load of nonsense. It just makes me irritated with those people who sit behind the closed doors in the main building and have no clue.
quote "I have to say that I find this business of of an "elevated" Membership level rather insulting on several levels" unquote.
Oops, think I should have told Carol I already wrote the check... my bad
If I see a bump on your head in Q, I'll know she whacked you with a brontosaurus bone.
Carol. You just repeated exactly what I said a few days ago and received a few derogatery (sp?) replies. One thing (before the like button) I also did get some nice comments PM'd and emailed so I knew at least I was not too far off in my comments.
JohH
I'll say this: I've read some of the most impassioned posts on this thread - more so than any other threads I can remember in my short time here. (I see that some comments (i.e. from LTG) have even disappeared, which is odd.)
That all tells me that Foretravel is lucky to have such an involved group of owners and fans (here on the Foreforums), and ought to take advantage of our loyalty in any way possible. I don't believe a $25 premium membership is the best way to do that, however.
I'm one of those "non-Motorcade members", so maybe I shouldn't weigh in here at all. I've been thinking that maybe we should join just to support the brand (we would never be able, at this point in our lives, to take advantage of any of the social aspects - which seemed to me to be the most prevalent part of the Club) - this would have been a prime opportunity for Foretravel to bring folks like us into the fold. Instead, it feels a bit more exclusionary than I'd like. We'll probably join anyway, as a show of support; and we'll probably do the "Premium", just to avoid being labeled a second-class owner when/if we ever do need to call the factory.
I checked the logs and no posts were shown as deleted by moderators or admins. For a small window of time, the system does allow posters to edit or delete their own posts (which doesn't show up in the logs), so that is likely what happened.
Hmmm, interesting....when I scroll up through all the comments, anything from ltg is blank, with the exception of one random character (a "?", a "-", etc.). Maybe it's something with my browser? I've seen it that way both on my iPad and now on my PC. Kinda irrelevant I guess, but it's just weird.
I believe, as my being the object of his original message, that perhaps he thought better of his comments to me and edited them out by replacing them with the "."
Steve just "flipped the bit" so any edited posts now show who last edited them and when.
Michelle, now that's just scary flip a bit and wallah! Just goes to show you how easy it is to crack the code lol :-)
Well, I can tell you that Foretravel does pay attention to its owners and is trying to meet our needs the most cost effective way for both us and them. I just had an email exchange with FT and here is the update.
They indicated that tech support offered in the Club Plus option was NEVER a Club benefit. In the past the Tech support was always offered to all owners. It didn't matter if they were Club members or not. It has always been a very costly privilege. This was something that they needed to get under control. There are owners/members and members of this forum and of the club who do not want or need this option of tech support so FT decided to offer it as a choice. I think this is an outcome that is not hard to see why it was implemented. I applaud them for doing it and allowing us as owners, access to Tech Support that we have grown happy to have. Some have mentioned that they got all they needed from the forum but many of us who have had that issue got the answer from James in the first place.
I am happy they kept the abilty to have some way to call in to get an answer and did not just do away with it altogether. I know this might raise another firestorm but we have to remember that FT is competing in a tough market and is making the best decisions they can for the company and for its owners.
I also am much happier saying that we have a plus option then reporting that it cost too much to have telephone tech support and have James on the phone for 2 hours free, so there is no more. I guess it is just how you look at it. I do not think there are classes of members or owners but people who have different needs and FT is trying to meet them all.
Too bad they couldn't have simply said it the way John just did. Unlimited tech support on products sold 30+ years in the past is unheard of in profitable business. I liked having it for free, but will gladly pay for it now.
Too bad I already renewed on time, before the plus membership was offered (but I only heard of it here). Do I have to go a year without?
The odd part of this and some of you can correct me but I spoke to a Country Coach and a Newell owner and they both have tech support via phone for their coaches anytime, day or night. DAN
I don't know how similar or dissimilar this will appear to folks here, but social media (including this very forum) has really changed how folks can obtain help and information. For example, I belong to four Facebook groups that pertain to vintage sewing machines, particularly Singer Featherweights. There are at least three business/selling entities who co-exist there, me being one, and we all sell items for the machines. It isn't like Foretravel doesn't know MOT and Extreme exist, and it would sure seem to me they could coexist here peacefully, for mutual benefit.
We always provide knowledgeable answers to questions and problems for free, whenever we have a chance to be online. Many folks will even start their questions addressing it to one or more particular persons that they know frequent the page and have the answers. As a result, a lot of folks appreciate our presence and problem-solving for them. In return, they show their appreciation by purchasing items from us that we have for sale (that are mentioned from time to time, but the readers are generally not bombarded with sales offers). With the advent of social media, this is a new kind of service that seems to be worthwhile. I don't spend that many hours in those groups, but still I quickly became well-known and developed a huge customer-base for the product I sell there. I sell a tiny product as a hobby for less than $10, but have had gross sales of over $8000 in just 3 months.
Many people "follow" posts there so that they can learn how to solve a particular problem that they think might come up for them. One of the sales entities has even created some you-tube videos to show how to do various procedures. As a result, they don't get phone calls all day long for the same questions...because the answers are shared within the group. Very similar to the Foretravel issue here of Hydraulic cylinder replacement for the 2002 train system. No one needs to call Joe Portelli at HWH about it, nor do they need to call James Triana and take his time away from other issues to address something already done and documented here by Scott and Carol.
It would seem to me that this forum could present a huge income source for Foretravel, especially if they came to an arrangement with Steve & Michelle (who don't even seem to be looking for money) to actually be here on a regular basis, and both assist folks with issues (saying it once, for hundreds of people to "hear") as well as telling us of items we may not know they have for sale or not think about needing. I could think of items such as cabinet struts (I need some), light bulbs, slide-wiper strips, windshield wiper blades, Dometic door handles, and all sorts of things like that that would bring Foretravel more income.
Just my 2 cents for an alternate way to increase income without trifurcating its customer group and causing unhappiness.
Tom, just make a copy of the page in the MC magazine with the form for upgrading the membership & send it into Beverly with your $25 check.
John S, your last additional comment about the new fee for those that want it goes back to many points brought up. What they said in essence is that FT put a Pittance of a fee to seperate the "classes" of membership. They should have reaped the benefits (so to say) and upped the cost of Motorcade to all and thereby given equal service/call backs etc to ALL. This would not have created the present situation we have now.
JohnH
Has any one considered the possibly there were too many call to James for him to handle as well as his other duties? Maybe this small fee is just to cut down those calls a bit. How many calls can one man take in a day? Please do say they should train others because as you would have to agree, only years of experience can really make a person like James.
Bob
Well, they decided that they did not want people to pay who did not use the service. There are many people in TX who just go to Nac as they live close by and have no need for telephone service. I think if you look at it from their point of view, they provide information and service on 30 year old coaches and they have not charged for it. They used to give out schematics and paperwork for free and now that has a cost so it was just a matter of time till it hit Tech service. I do not think it is a class of owners rather allowing owners to make the best decision for their needs. It is not really a cost issue for most of us but the perception of classes is wrong. They did not want that to be the case but wanted people to have the choice of whether they wanted to pay for it or not. I will say if they used this forum more and bounced ideas off us, then they might not have this issue right now. I do not think this change was predicated on creating classes of ownership, rather it is to allow those who want to pay for a service and find value in it to keep receiving it. I think it is the right thing that they did but they also presented it poorly. I know you can not please all the people and many people say they see no value in contacting FT or in the MC club and that is fine. In this case they are adding value to the members of the MC club and dealing with a high cost issue they have at Corporate and still allowing us to have access if we want it instead of stopping it altogether. I think if the comment in the MC mag was we are stopping all call in for tech service on coaches older then 2008 then they would be dropping support for the older coaches but they did not. They approached this another manner and allowed the older installed base to have the access they want or need.
John, I think that's a reasonable position for Foretravel to take and I appreciate your explanation.
Effective communication....still a challenge after the thousands of years we've all been doing it.
The forum never has and our intent is that it never will be used for commercial gain. There is not and will not be commercial sponsorship, endorsement, or affiliation.
The intent is and always has been that the forum is owned by the members since they (you) are the ones sharing your knowledge and helping each other.
I agree with your principles and they are good ones. What I, as just one of many people want is that the 2 of you that spend most of the time making this Forum work at least have some recognition for these hours etc and are compensated, however small it is for your work. The amount of this "recognition" has to be left open for us to decide.
JohnH
It seems like a tempest in a teapot over some perceived slight, and I don't think it was Foretravel's intent to insult anyone. Look at it this way, what if they had just said "OK everyone, cough up another twenty five bucks whether you use the services or not." There are members who don't use the call in tech service, why should they be penalized to finance the ones who do? I suspect there would have been a measure of outrage over this also. They did not divide owners up into "classes," owners have done this on their own because they use different levels of service.
I have never called Foretravel for tech help unless I intended to follow it up with a service visit. Too many years in business for me, and never felt right asking for help with something I intended to fix myself. As others have said, the Foreforums brain trust is the resource, and I try to repay help by responding when others ask. Now, however, I'll gladly renew my expired motorcade membership and next time not hesitate to call for tech help if needed.
As Brad, Christine and Mugsy note, along with many others, FT could really do with a competent online knowledge base type presence. While it may seem trivial to those who look at hundreds of informative web pages a day, this would be a huge undertaking for them.
John S. if I understand you right, FT is stating tech service was never a part of the Motor Club. But now you will have to pay the MC dues plus the $25. to get tech support. So what it comes down to is the fact if you don't have a use for the MC services, for you to get tech support on your 10 to 30 year old coach its going to cost you $115.00 a year to access tech support. I have been a member of the MC since 2000 and have always thought tech service was a part of the MC dues. My error.
That is what they should have done Chuck, and AGAIN I say look at the posts that have come in "has anyone bitched over an increase--NO, that is what we are saying "increase the fee for everyone" and have done over and over again, but it still has not sunk in to some.
I am one who has not called in by phone for Tech service but I would not be troubled with an increase!!
JohnH
However, I believe it would be entirely appropriate for Foretravel to have one (or more) of their employees monitor this forum and provide information directly from the factory. In my opinion that would not violate any spirit or principle of this forum, and would eliminate the need for James to provide so much one-on-one support.
At least that's
my opinion . . . .
I was simply trying to squash any potential discussion of any company using the forum to generate "a huge income source"....
Sharing knowledge and information is always most welcome and encouraged.
We have been owners and members for almost 2 years. To date I have not received notification from the MC that this Plus + provision has been implemented. The MC certainly has my email address and telephone #. I also have not received the new MC magazine. Come to think of it I do not recall getting a single copy. It would be nice to receive said notification from FOT and/or the MC.
It is unfortunate to me that I have heard about this through this FoFum from a member or two and not from the Company. and more importantly the Company has left it up to us to debate our thoughts without expressing "their" reasons/justifications for this augmentation of an exxisting program.
I guess their ineffective communication (my perception) regarding this new program is what concerns me.
I will probably send in the 25 bucks but it would be nice to receive some sort of Invoice, request, statement with an explanation of benefits so I would know what I was purchasing.
Just my thoughts.
Is FOT a Commercial member of this forum? Could they not make a presence here as opposed to having the information funelled through a member and have him defend the Company"s position. Michelle - could you enlighten me?
Foretravel most certainly is a Commercial member of Foreforums. In the past, they have posted on the forum and have offered useful information in response to questions.
Steve and I don't know why they chose to funnel this and other Motorcade Club and corporate information through John S rather than communicate directly with the forum.
Wow, is it just me, or is anyone else finding this thread a bit tiresome?
FT made a decision, and as always, we can vote with our wallet. Don't think I am going to go out and trade for a Newell based on the extra $25 a year, which i will choose to contribute, and many others will not. This move does not alienate me, but it obviously has others. Most corporate decisions have benefactors and detractors. If you feel strongly enough, I guess a letter to FT would be more appropriate (and might produce reconsideration on their part if it was compelling).
I am used to paying for premium service, and think a subscription price makes sense as a way of rationing and allocating a scarce and valuable resource. (I have previously used the airline example as rationing based on price and level of service)
I love Steve, Michelle and this Forum. I have great respect for FT and the business challenges they face in a VERY difficult and cyclical industry,
Thanks again to all who contribute.
Ah, the voice of reason. Kill it for the good of all.
I asked Michelle about 5 days ago to do just that (by way of email) and the reason she gave me to leave it open was valid, so this has been mentioned before as I was getting fed up with trying to get it over to people to read the posts before replying
FWIW
JohnH
I think the thread keeps going on for a couple reasons, one is we keep posting in it :facepalm: People are passionate about their coaches and the company behind it. The other is since Foretravel has done a rather dubious job in communicating the changes, the reasons behind them, and the overall timing of the rollout (post annual renewals), what we have is a PR snafu that they get to deal with, welcome to 2015.
I offer my executive summary from reading the 7 pages.
-----
Foretravel rolled out changes that affect your benefits in the MC club. There are now membership levels available to you and your benefits will vary based on which you choose. Although there are several changes, the ones that will be of most interest to the membership are:
o Removal of the 10% remodel discount. This is similar to the Paint and Body area where there is also no 10% discount. This is simply a business decision done in the best interest of the long term well being of the company.
o The entry level package no longer offers direct phone support with tech support, email support is still available. Phone support is available in the premium package for a small price increase.
o The premium package offers service appointment priority above any other customers. It also offers additional after hour support on a case by case basis.
General Feedback Summary
- Members do not find the increase unreasonable and many will likely "upgrade"
- Are "levels" worth the administrative cost and hassle vs a simple across the board increase?
- Moving from a "loyalty" based system to a "membership" based system in the service department may alienate some members.
- How the upgrades will be sustained should a large percentage choose premium level, service, phone access (current situation).
- If they don't upgrade will they be "pushed" to look elsewhere or "pushed" to premium as there will be no available service slots in a reasonable timeframe.
- Members do want to support the things that are in Foretravel's best long term interest, they may just disagree on what that is ;)
I believe those are the salient points raised from the 7 pages. We don't have any other information, so don't ya'll go ask'n.
Thank you for the summary Steve. My original intent in posting the link to Facebook in Foreforums was twofold. 1. to let everyone know that there is a FB page for the Motorcade Club. 2. since I had not been directly communicated the new changes from the MC Club, I thought it a good idea to let everyone here know...just in case.
One more item to add to Steve's summary:
Considering the areas in which Foretravel excels, they fall short in PR and all forms of communication.
I believe that all this discussion about cost of membership is probably more meaningful to those OLD members who remember the days of $35, and what seems like a different attitude on the part of the company and club. I no longer belong as I had to sell the FT but after 15 years of membership I have seen a whole range of changes. Hope that things improve in the future for FT, the MC and all of us.
Happy New Year again.
Gary B
Well said and true. When it comes down to it, my appreciation of Foretravel is not wrapped up in the social aspects of ownership but the recognition of masterful design and execution of a fine, durable piece of machinery. By extension I have a huge amount of respect for the company that produced it. This is the meat, communication, web presence, online support issues are secondary considerations. Granted, Foretravel could possibly benefit from enhanced promotion via social media etc., indeed for many consumers this is a primary consideration in purchase, especially for the first time owners. The second time buyers, though, are the ones who buy Foretravels and I suspect for them, the fact that premium level physical support for their coach is readily available, and the well known and earned great reputation for quality is the overriding concern.
There are many first-time buyers who could--and would--purchase Foretravels if they simply knew about them and fully understood the quality that's in them. Unfortunately, with Foretravel's lack of quality marketing and a really good Web presence, I don't think many first-time buyers know about them.
Considering the fact that I was (operative word here: WAS) a Motorcade member and am still a Foretravel owner, I have never received any communication from either organization in the last three years. Kind of makes me think of what owners of defunct brands feel like, now that they own "orphans"
I wonder how much it would cost FOT to maintain contact with owners of their coaches? What kind of return on the investment of time and resources?
When I was in the Machine Tool Company as Chief Applications Engineer I used to call each contact at the companies that bought our machine once a week after receipt of the machine-each week for two months. After that, twice a month for two months. After that, once a month for a year, and so on. Each time I asked for feedback, degree of satisfaction with their machine, anything we could do for them. I got a lot of repeat business due to customer satisfaction and my keeping in contact with them.
Bet FOT is missing out on their customer contacts and opportunities
Tim and Chuck, right on! Atlas Shrugged, got a chuckle out of that one!
The rest of you, come on man, can't you feel the love? It's just $25 bucks, and they are just trying to help. Do you really think this has any effect on profit... $25,000? This is about justifying techs getting tied up on a 1993, 1994, 1989 GV for a $200 part.
Yes, improvements could be made (communications in my opinion) but if you've been to FT then you know there aren't many employees just sitting around, they're working.
Put a smile on your face, get away from the petty stuff and have fun. See you on the road, Mark, MC 17243
P.S. If you don't like it, start a motorcoach company yourself and see how you make out.
OK here I go again. Appears maybe the new establishment does not wish to keep giving free info to coach owners when their coaches were built by the previous owners. What they miss is the fact; Look in the service bays and paint shop and they will see that these are the coaches which are their best customers. I agree: its all about keeping in touch with their customers and that is "ALL Foretravel owners". The internet is the best tool for that as Barry has shown by his work on manuals etc. Foretravel has always had a difficult time listening to their customers and seem to build the most expensive, largest, and most complicated motorhome. What happen to keep it simple? Where are the medium priced shorter coaches? Quality can be had, but you have to be a team player including the customer. Its not the $25.00. Its the idea which seems to have a difficult time making sense when you have to pay for a priority position for service. Appears that just being a motorcade member is just not good enough anymore, but I suspect that this new level will be soon forgotten. Who monitors if you are on the "upper teir" or not when you call. Are they going to say; Oh, you have to wait as you are not a priority member. Lets hope not. This is the end of the topic for me.
I am not trying to stir up trouble I'm just trying to make an observation one which I'm involved in.
Unfortunately I think age and mind-set has a lot to do with communication communication. my dad still thinks that he should receive a confirmation if he sent a text to make sure that you got it. He thinks the Internet is a place.
It would be a paradigm shift to go from the flip phone to a smartphone. And that's were they are. All other manufacturers embracing technology and using smartphones and they still use paper, microfisc and flip phones
here's a question the way I kept up on my competition was I look to see what they were doing. I doubt Foretravel has looked at another website for another manufacturer? If they have, their head is in the sand. Even the one thats selling the realm has a wonderful website. They have a great motorhome great values, but they're behind times.
Bigger more expensive new RVs are more profitable per unit. But producing smaller, less expensive unit, gives more units to work on in the future and service.
Websites and marketing don't matter as much if only selling 20-50 coaches at 1mil a pop.
I completely disagree. The prospective buyers with that kind of money are quite likely to be Web savvy. It's important to properly explain and market one's product to them--especially if a single sale will sell a product with a price of about $1 million! How can one be impressed with the quality of a very expensive product if the manufacturer cannot even produce a quality Website?
Well, being in the business, I guess I'd like to know what a "Quality Website" is.
I, for one, would not consider a website that's mostly glitzy photos a quality website.
But a website that answers just about any question a Prospect might ask, plus a few photos, just might turn more Prospects into Customers.
Now that would take a LOT of work, but it might pay off handsomely.
Its easy enuf to find web designers who'll deliver a beautiful website.
But not all website designers understand how to market on the web, or how to create a website that does it.
Serh Godin once said something like this: A website exists for one purpose: To gain a Prospect's permission to market them. Which Seth called "Permission Marketing" now called "Inbound Marketing"
Check out Seth's book by the same name: "Permission Marketing"
best, paul
You have pretty much described what I would consider to be a "Quality Website." I would add that in the case of a motorhome manufacturer's Website, I would like to see details of their construction techniques, and what sets them apart for their competition.
Since I'm an engineer, I have limited appreciation for the "pretty" (except, of course, for my wife!) but I have a great appreciation for the technical details.
While Seth may have written a great book, his book was written back in 1999. That to me seems a bit dated in today's fast paced world. Times have surely changed, especially the internet, from fifteen years ago.
Bob
Please look at the Foretravel website.
The website contains a description of the current models available. With a listing of all equipment.
There is a pdf file of 2014 models with complete descriptions with specifications and all weights and measures.
There is a section that describes (and shows pictures) of major items such as roof structure, custom chassis, wood work, slides, fiberglass construction, etc.
There are complete descriptions and photos of all new models for sale.
There is a history of Foretravel.
What else should there be? What is missing?
I have reviewed the Foretravel Website many times. It contains a lot of information, but it's far from "user friendly."
A few key things lacking include any compelling reason to purchase a Foretravel (from an engineering standpoint) when compared to the competition. I firmly believe the Foretravel engineering design is superior to virtually all others, but there is no comprehensive information package on the Website. If I hadn't already been familiar with the Foretravel design throughout the years, I couldn't really learn about it from the Website.
Review Entegra's Website, for example, to see how a lower-cost manufacturer has constructed their Website. Also consider how Newell has done their Website. I believe Foretravel should be considered in the same category as Newell, but does Foretravel's Website reflect that? Of these three Websites, which ones offer a compelling story of why one should consider their products, as well as how their products are supported?
In addition, there should be a really good way to find parts online and a link to that parts database on their Website. This would save them money in personnel costs (answering the phone) and likely increase parts sales in the long run.
I could go on, but I believe I've provided a reasonable sampling of what's lacking.
Just not going to speak ::)
The Newell Website is indeed, IMO, a class act.
I do not agree that Foretravel should be considered in the same category as a Newell.
I could not find how to order parts on the Integra Website nor the Newell Website. Probably an oversight on my part.
I didn't mean to leave the impression that I thought either Entegra's or Newell's Websites were perfect, nor that either one contained all of the information I personally believe should be available.
I personally believe that Foretravel's components and construction techniques are (or were) on a par with Newell, and I believe Foretravel's floorplans are (or were) nearly as customizable as are Newell's. I also personally believe that if Foretravel wants to survive, then they should "step up their game" to be recognized in the same league as Newell. I think they were once there (or very close) but are not there at this point.
Obviously, opinions can differ, and I know not everyone will agree with mine!
I was saying that the discount never was suppose to go to any remodel but David F has been doing it on his own and has also been able to work the hours to make the customer happy. He does a land office business as a result.
I am down in NAC at Xtreme for a three week project. Very early on I realized I needed to get a vertical adjustment on the back end of my slide ( up 1/16"). I talked to Joshua Davis. He said it might be possible to slip me in when I was done at Xtreme. I talked to him again Friday and he said MC+ members were getting into little slivers of time they have set aside each week. So I talked to Beverly and signed up for the plus. We will see if I get in. If not I am not waiting. Joshua said they are scheduling about 2 months out now. A very busy time for everyone in NAC.
Roger
While at Quartzsite, we experienced a scary "glitch" with the Turbo Turd 3000 that renewed my fright palpitations over this touchy piece of equipment. It is back to working normally ... but I just think it is a failure waiting to happen. I called Foretravel and left a message in the Parts Department asking for some advice on a replacement model. Just wanted to know what they are seeing in coaches that are not a "direct drop" floor plan and what model I should be considering as a replacement. I was very pleased and impressed that my question was referred to James Triana, and that he took the time to call my number back and leave a message telling me the kind of commode that they are putting in coaches that are a replacement for mine. We did upgrade our membership ... but I am not feeling as though that was the reason that the gents in Parts took the time to pass my query on to James T. I just think they have always taken the time to try and help us in the same way.
If I give them the extra $25 do we get new ID cards? We just received our "New Membership Cards" (2015 Standard Membership). The flimsy paper cards look like they were printed on a 1980's dot matrix printer...not very impressive.
No new cards. The FT data base shows your membership upgrade. How this is handled internally - I do not know. We did upgrade but have no experience how this really effects our service requirements.
I just saw this on the FT site. It might be why we have not seen any change yet.
Due to the late date of the changes listed below related to Club Plus membership, Club Plus membership dues need to be paid by March 1, 2015.
· Technical questions answered directly by our technical team. (Non-Plus members can submit questions via the internet with a response as soon as possible)
· Exclusive Plus member access to our afterhours emergency call service.
Roger, you might also check with MOT. They should be very familiar with your year slides and might be able to fit you in.
I guess you are not saying what that new model is since its "premium" only information :)) O:) :P Come on now do tell what the name is for the all new corncob 4000?
Thanks, Michelle, i have been over to MOT several times in the last three weeks. I wanted brushed nickel closet door push button latch knobs and trim rings. FT had none, special order. MOT said how many? But then I bought some other stuff at FT as well. Spread the joy. If I get the raspberries from FT Wednesday, I will go across the street. Actually I will call them in the AM.
I also looked closely at what to do after Alton at FT explained it. It is something I would try myself. Take some load off the slide, remove or loosen two bolts, remove a shim equal to the adjustment you want to make, tighten stuff up, remove the support, check for ther desired result. Redo.
Roger
Stopped in at FT this morning to check on a service slot I have been talking to them about for two weeks. The Service folks told me my chances of getting in tomorrow for a slide adjustment was at best 50/50 and most likely not and likely not anytime this week either - Motorcade Plus or not. So I went over to check at MOT. I have never been there for service before. They scheduled me in for tomorrow. 15% discount for scheduled service at MOT. I am glad there are choices.
Roger
Well I am happy you got in but now that more people will find out how good they are it is there we will have to wait a few days to get in now.
I am sorry to hear that FT could not work you in.
I had that problem last summer. I was in service and finished on friday and saturday morning woke up with a broken front window. they could not fit me in but MOT did that day. No fuss or muss and they put two guys on it and I was done in 90 mins and then sat still for a day.
I did not realize FOT was running on Saturdays, even as long ago as last year, good to know, I thought that was something they just recently added on a case basis. Oh wait ... reading this again .... are you saying FOT could not fit you in during the following week but MOT worked you in on Saturday, if so thats 8)
Curious as to what may have caused a window break, thats strange.
MOT has a sort of process or algorithm or triage process of working people in, and their technical skills are very good. Plus quite a few techs now with lots of experience. I have watched them grow their ability over four years, never been disappointed. I think there are two basic business differences as well.
It is good to have polite competition and Nac offers at least six opportunities for various type of RV help. We just need an RV park to get you to stay longer, for more than RV work!
Steve, I was saying that FOT finished me up on friday and I was in the lot and waiting to pay the bill on monday and they could not fit me in to fix the window to the end of the week at least. Now I know I was done supposedly but they had changed fuel lines and done a bunch of stuff but MOT took me in on Monday morning at 930 am and I was done in the lot waiting for it to dry at 1030. Now an hour of work for a couple guys and lots of good will. They do not consider that at FOT. Now FOT is trying to reduce their backlog and is working a bit on Saturdays too but MOT has done that for a while when they get backed up and they will work till 9 pm sometimes as well. I have not seen that at FOT in all my years though I will say that Kodak would do that when they were backed up.
When FOT had there store in Fl. Bryan Mullins took good care of his customers.
Success at MOT this morning. 1 hr 40 min from walking in the door to departure. Just over 1 hr to adjust my slide. $120. Fantastic! And big time Texas nice too. There were some folks in the waiting room from MN to chat with.
Roger
I am glad you had a good experience. I have to say that most of the best techs from FT ended up there.
When I worked at the Tampa Foretravel store by the fairgrounds, in the service department, spent many late nights helping to get folks back on the road and worked every Saturday until at least noon. I felt it was totally crazy to make someone spend another night, when for maybe an hour or less they could be finished.
Lots of topics discussed here... I'll put in my 2cents... Why not? Keep in mind that this is just my observations - not meant to offend. Any criticisms are meant to be taken constructively.
Motorcade:
I don't know what it is or why I would want it. I hunted around for info and found that there are some road trips every year or something? Maybe I am allowed to go to Grandvention but wouldn't be otherwise? I see lots of clubs, presidents, vice presidents and other political things I really don't want to get involved in. Apparently I get a year for free? I'm not really a believer in the FMCA discount as the price I got quoted at a commercial tire place for Michelins was cheaper than the FMCA price. I got a set of conti's (10) for $3200 with trade. I wouldn't be very concerned about 72 hour service turnaround, I would have to schedule service at FT months in advance anyway since I am not often in the area.
Website:
The website stinks. It's circa 2000 work. I have no doubt that someone somewhere tries to keep up over there but technology moves at light speed. The current state of the art is what a buddy of mine just did for Parx Casino. Parx Casino® | Philadelphia Casino, Racing, Entertainment, and Nightlife |... (http://www.parxcasino.com). That is what the FT website should be. There should be at least one talented graphic artist, at least one talented motion graphics person, and at least one highly skilled programmer/IT guy on staff. Finally most companies these days need to hire a social media manager. Small web updates, and chase down negative posts on forums and such and help get questions answered. They fixed the phone system at least. Many of today's customers first impression of a Foretravel would be through the website. On a nearly million dollar purchase, it should be exceptional, as should all parts of the buying and ownership experience equally.
Used coaches:
This is a blanket catch-all. I've seen lots of discussions about time or energy spent dealing with criticisms, complaints or needs of older coach owners or used buyers. Or people who didn't pay for the coach originally or the renovations... I think FT is right to take care of the used coach owners for the following reasons:
* Today's used coach owners are tomorrow's new coach owners. Not everyone is retired, some people in my position aim for a new coach some day and business is on an upward trajectory so it's possible. Not everyone will buy a new coach but some will.
* Used coach owners may sell new coaches. Foreforums is filled with old coach owners and they are who sold me on a used FT. I may some day buy a new coach. The awareness of FT and release of apprehension about paying high dollar for an old coach is purely due to Fofum and Barry Beam's site. Which brings me to my third point.
* A tolerable situation for used coach owners leads to higher resale prices which benefits the overall resale value and the proposition for new coach buyers. A new coach buyer may look over the market and make sure that used coaches follow the right pricing. I haven't done the math but it doesn't seem like many RV's don't depreciate in a straight line while mine was priced right about where it should be... so higher. I was willing to pay it while other rv's depreciate much faster because I saw value in the product. Part of that value is the reputation for service, FT still being in business, the forums, etc. Used coaches flying around with top notch renovations, etc, serve to push someone toward foretravel. The brand loyalty is undeniable.
The fact is that people with the ability to gather up $70K or $100K without financing due to age, miles or both, are probably people who you should pay attention to.
So you know everything has it's place, and there has to be a cut off to the focus on older coach owners, but the current pervasive MBA mindset of worrying solely about next quarter profits is self defeating. I really am so sick of that mindset too because it consistently destroys companies. Look at HP then versus HP now. Or IBM. There's a myriad of companies who are going under because a long term vision is unimportant. It's something that Foretravel has done right for an incredibly long time and I hope they keep it up. Keep using the highest grade materials - even where they can't be seen. Keep parts on hand for VERY old coaches. How much does a warehouse cost in the middle of nowhere Texas? It can't be THAT much.
There are probably a few other things that they currently do rather effectively that they should just keep doing.
Oh and regarding communication, phone communication is excellent but emails don't always get returned. I'm not surprised not a lot of people can type as well as I can, but really an email that says "hey can you call me about this Tuesday at 6:30pm and I can discuss this with you" would work. But I have no complaints overall. I didn't spend a dime and they still took good care to help with what I needed.
Roger: Good for you. If FOT is too busy to take care of their good customers and MOT will do it, I may be back at MOT for service.
Its the idea that I get a 10% discount at either place but I should not have to pay for upgrades to a club to get good service. FOT has obliviously more service business than they can handle. Time to expand service department. DAN