Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Discussions => Topic started by: Mark D on January 31, 2015, 05:20:17 pm
Title: Typical electric consumption? (was Electric Bill)
Post by: Mark D on January 31, 2015, 05:20:17 pm
Hello all,
Do any of you find your electric bill to be a little insane? The last month we used 936kwh which will be $140. Our main draws are heat pump for 2 nights only, no a/c, aquahot electric and dometic fridge on AC mode. Other than that just 2 laptops, a dvr, an hp microserver (power efficient), a samsung 42" lcd which is on most of the day and aquahot electric and LED lighting.
I just can't figure out what is drawing so much power. I think I'm going to have to buy a meter and start adding things up.
(Edited topic title for clarification - Michelle)
Title: Re: Electric Bill
Post by: Mogan David on January 31, 2015, 05:39:11 pm
It appears that you are in Bradenton, FL I spent DEC (for the first time) at Zephyrhills. During one of the park's Monday coffee n donuts sessions, someone stood up and warned that electric bills in the area were going to go WAY UP. The state's Public Service Commission (or some such thing) must have allowed utilities a substantial rate increase. I'm back in the frigid North (MI) where I received my Consumers Energy bill today. Most of my appliances are natural gas fueled. I have an electric clothes dryer, which is used infrequently. I live alone. I have a 325 gal Hot Springs Spa wired 110V and set 100f OUTDOORS which probably accounts for more than half my electricity consumption. It was set back to 85f while I was in FL till I was back 12/31. During the billing period DEC 24 - JAN 27, I used 836 kWh at a cost of $118.14. I feel your pain >:(
Title: Re: Electric Bill
Post by: K Brenneman on January 31, 2015, 07:06:37 pm
Hello Guys,
I am here in Sunny Florida. My electric bill for our 42" FT is on a average of $114.00 a month. Last summer here in Florida the electric bill ran $180.00 for the month of Aug. We don't use any LPG. The couch is all electric. Here in central Florida the KWH is about $.11 cents. I can't remember our house every having a electric bill over $50.00 per month.
Good Luck Karl
Title: Re: Electric Bill
Post by: Michelle on January 31, 2015, 07:56:28 pm
936 kwh in a month is 1274.5 watts every hour, on average
AquaHot electric element is somewhere between 1200 and 1600 watts, IIRC. Are you leaving AH element on 24/7? Wondering how much that could be contributing?
Title: Re: Electric Bill
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on January 31, 2015, 08:03:11 pm
The Aqua Hot can be a large KW user, my unit has a 185F and 2 at 215F thermostats. So My thoughts are along the electric draw at 16 Amp per element, and keeping water above 185f does cost big bucks. Many years ago I had a Gold Medallion electric home, wow, electric was $65.00 / month, until I called the electric office, asked whats up with that, 1st question was how hot is your water from spigot, HOT!, he said turn thermostat down to about 125f, next bill was $15.00 / month. So that is where I am guessing from.
Your stuck with the high limits or in summer you can turn off the electric heater for a while, but winter, am guessing you like the heat.
Title: Re: Electric Bill
Post by: krush on January 31, 2015, 09:36:55 pm
Aquahot and engine block heater...
Title: Re: Electric Bill
Post by: Mark D on January 31, 2015, 09:50:57 pm
I was thinking about just doing a daily diesel run in the morning instead of the electric... Not sure if that would affect longevity of the unit as a whole. I think the consensus is that the high temperature of the aquahot boiler is the electricity consumer. It's not like a normal tank water heater with a 140 degree thermostat. We're not running the block heater. I verified that I didn't leave that on like a dumb dumb. We do leave the aquahot electric on 24/7 but I was under the impression it was thermostat driven. Btw, yes we are in Bradenton, FL. That's why no A/C or heat use.
Title: Re: Electric Bill
Post by: OldManSax on January 31, 2015, 10:03:47 pm
I sometimes keep our coach at my shop in Maryland. In the winter, the electric bill will run about $60/month to keep the coach at 50F. That's using all 4 electric heaters and the refrigerator, nothing else. No block heater, no hot water. Electricity is about $0.11/KWH there. Here in Delaware it is about $0.14/KWH. I am looking forward to moving.
TOM
Title: Re: Electric Bill
Post by: Rick on February 01, 2015, 08:02:34 am
dometic fridge on AC is about 3 amps continuously. At your $0.15/Kw that's about $1.30/day x 30 =$39.00 right there.
Title: Re: Electric Bill
Post by: Johnstons on February 01, 2015, 09:43:04 am
We have sometimes left our coach at a place with a meter. The electric company there charges about double per kwh for an RV meter because the usage is sporadic and they don't have the volume to install and maintain the system otherwise. Their minimum when not in use is very low, less than $18 a month so I figure it works out in the end.
Title: Re: Electric Bill
Post by: RRadio on February 01, 2015, 10:59:22 am
People who work in campgrounds often misread electric meters, especially the older type with dials that turn in opposite directions. Ask what day they read your meter and go take a photo of the meter with your cell phone on that day each month. I worked at a campground briefly and discovered I was the only person working there who could read all the meters properly because they had so many different types of meters installed.
Title: Re: Electric Bill
Post by: ARdave on February 01, 2015, 11:40:48 am
Run the aqua hot on diesel only and see what happens.
Title: Re: Electric Bill
Post by: Ben and Bonnie on February 01, 2015, 12:34:15 pm
We just got back from Bushnell, Fl. Spent the month of Jan. there and our electric bill for the month was $120.00. We also left the electric aqua hot on 24/7. I think next year we will try leaving it off and running the diesel and see if that makes a difference. We did have the heat on for several nights and only used the AC once. We did run the washer and dryer the entire month too.
Ben and Bonnie Harris 1999 U320 40' with slide
Title: Re: Electric Bill
Post by: krush on February 01, 2015, 08:29:31 pm
Electricity may be cheaper than diesel. Not sure though.
Title: Re: Electric Bill
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on February 01, 2015, 08:44:33 pm
Leaving the Electric on 24/7 will be more costly, however if you turn on the electric for the same amount of time you run the genset, the electric will be less costly, a few hours a day for e x ample.
Title: Re: Electric Bill
Post by: Jerry Whiteaker on February 02, 2015, 01:02:58 am
That works out to around 15 cents/KWh. I looked up the rates in Bradenton and for a commercial or residential rate it is about 10 cents/KWh based on 1000 KWh, that is if the website is correct. I assume you must be in a CG with an electric meter for your site. The CG probably gets a commercial rate, but they have to buy the meters, read them, and maintain the wiring, so they charge more than they actually pay the power company. It's also possible that 15 cents is close to what the CG is paying since most electric rates increase with higher use and a CG would use a lot of electricity.
The amount of KWh you are using may not be abnormal. My 1725 sq ft house in Austin, TX has averaged 920 KWh per month over the last 12 yrs, that's using gas for heat, water, and stove top; electric for oven, AC, and everything else. Of course AC is the big draw in the summer months. Although our house is many times the size of your coach, it has a lot of insulation. My coach has less than 2" of insulation, plus a lot of glass in the windows, yours is probably the same, so it takes a lot of Btu's to heat and cool. I suspect that the Aqua Hot is the main draw in your case. I don't have any experience with aqua hot and the cost of electric vs diesel, but doubt if diesel would cost less at the present price.
Edit: Just looked up the Btu's in a KWH and a gallon of diesel. 1 kwh = 3412 btu and 1 gal diesel = 139,000 btu If the Aqua hot is 75% efficient with diesel and 100% efficient on electric (it probably isn't), you would save by using diesel as long as the cost is less than $4.58 per gallon.
Title: Re: Electric Bill
Post by: Mark D on February 02, 2015, 11:02:28 pm
Interesting. Well for starters we are going to run the aquahot on electric only during certain times of day. It will be off over night. I may look into installing a timer since the relay box for the electric is so accessible.
This whole thing also got me thinking that it probably wouldn't be that difficult to figure out the intellitec protocol and then I could use a raspberry pi to control the intellitec multiplex switches and then I could use an iphone to control all the switches in the rv. Not that useful, but neat.
Title: Re: Electric Bill
Post by: rbark on February 02, 2015, 11:07:11 pm
Why not just run the diesel in the morning for showers then in the evening if you need heat and leave the electric part of Aqua hot off?
Title: Re: Electric Bill
Post by: Mark D on February 03, 2015, 12:14:41 pm
Mostly because I don't want to subject the neighbors to the diesel odor. It is also a bit noisier now that we replaced the exhaust and neglected to put the Webasto muffler back in. Also the aquahot diesel components are very expensive so we tend not to use it except when boondocking or exercising the unit. We mostly depend on the overhead heat pumps for the few random times we need some heat.
Title: Re: Electric Bill
Post by: krush on February 04, 2015, 10:02:54 pm
Install a hot water heater, or modify the thermostat temp for the aqua hot. Sounds like you don't even use the system for heating, so it really is more of a liability over a simple water heater. Heat pumps use less power in mild climates.
Title: Re: Electric Bill
Post by: Mark D on February 04, 2015, 10:20:38 pm
I have and I do use it for heating, but only boondocking or driveway surfing. It happens, I spent most of November using the aquahot in 15 degree weather. A switchable thermostat for the electric element for summer/winter would be the best solution.
Title: Re: Electric Bill
Post by: Dick S on March 06, 2015, 10:14:45 pm
That works out to around 15 cents/KWh. I looked up the rates in Bradenton and for a commercial or residential rate it is about 10 cents/KWh based on 1000 KWh, that is if the website is correct. I assume you must be in a CG with an electric meter for your site. The CG probably gets a commercial rate, but they have to buy the meters, read them, and maintain the wiring, so they charge more than they actually pay the power company. It's also possible that 15 cents is close to what the CG is paying since most electric rates increase with higher use and a CG would use a lot of electricity.
The amount of KWh you are using may not be abnormal. My 1725 sq ft house in Austin, TX has averaged 920 KWh per month over the last 12 yrs, that's using gas for heat, water, and stove top; electric for oven, AC, and everything else. Of course AC is the big draw in the summer months. Although our house is many times the size of your coach, it has a lot of insulation. My coach has less than 2" of insulation, plus a lot of glass in the windows, yours is probably the same, so it takes a lot of Btu's to heat and cool. I suspect that the Aqua Hot is the main draw in your case. I don't have any experience with aqua hot and the cost of electric vs diesel, but doubt if diesel would cost less at the present price.
Edit: Just looked up the Btu's in a KWH and a gallon of diesel. 1 kwh = 3412 btu and 1 gal diesel = 139,000 btu If the Aqua hot is 75% efficient with diesel and 100% efficient on electric (it probably isn't), you would save by using diesel as long as the cost is less than $4.58 per gallon.
Jerry, if electric is $0.10/kWh, what would the price of diesel have to be to save over the electric? Thanks, Dick
Title: Re: Electric Bill
Post by: Mark D on March 07, 2015, 11:34:49 am
So last month we turned the aquahot electric element off during the day and at night and used diesel in the morning to heat the water. The bill was $127, even higher! Grrr.
Title: Re: Electric Bill
Post by: ScubaGuy on March 07, 2015, 01:42:24 pm
Piku can you post the KWHs you used each month. Due to the varying costs of electricity, comparing monthly costs is apples to oranges. My $75 could be your $127.
The only time we have stayed somewhere for a month with a meter was New Caney, TX (just North of Houston) in June. It was a shady spot, and temps where normal for Houston in June, but more than average railfall. In one month we used 1117kwh. The AH was on electric the entire time. Also both A/Cs ran quite a bit, and we cook a lot, using electric to cook (not propane).
Foretravels, while highly insulated compared to other brands, are not nearly as insulated as a sticks n bricks. I doubt the A/Cs are nearly as efficent, and there's a lot of glass/sq ft compared to a house.
Before we moved into the coach we lived in a 850/sq ft apt. Even in the hottest months we never exceeded 1000kwh. June would probably average 750-800kwh.
Title: Re: Electric Bill
Post by: Mark D on March 07, 2015, 11:45:49 pm
827 kwh last month. Light a/c use. We are using it more now that it's warming up here. I also I permanently installed a nice UPS on circuit 1 which is the tv, dvr, apple tv, and my file server. It looks to use 267 watts at full load or 230 watts 24x7 to keep the dvr and server running so our entertainment is 172 of those kwh. Aside from that there isn't much else other than fridge, lights, aquahot and a/c, all of which we tried to dramatically conserve.
Title: Re: Electric Bill
Post by: Michelle on March 08, 2015, 10:09:48 am
For data comparison, I just looked at our house daily usage (we have an EcoGrid meter) to see what the increase is for days the coach is here, vs. nominal. We have a 30 amp connection at the house, so at most 1 A/C is run (and set at 80 F). TV is not on, microwave is not used, AH is not used.
Typical usage appears to be anywhere from 25 to 55 kWh higher with the coach plugged in than not. Our average daily house usage is 25-35 kWH and that jumps to 55-85 kWh/day with the coach plugged in.
827 kWh for 1 month of RV-only seems to be reasonable by this comparison ^.^d
Title: Re: Electric Bill
Post by: Mark D on March 08, 2015, 10:20:05 am
Humm.. I hear all these stories from people who say "oh our electric bill was only $37 last month". I can only conclude that they are tall tales ;)
Title: Re: Electric Bill
Post by: nitehawk on March 08, 2015, 11:21:38 am
Humm.. I hear all these stories from people who say "oh our electric bill was only $37 last month". I can only conclude that they are tall tales ;)
:P Kind of like SOB coach owner claiming to get 19 MPG. :P
Title: Re: Typical electric consumption? (was Electric Bill)
Post by: Michelle on March 08, 2015, 12:17:05 pm
Another quick calculation, 827 kWh in 1 month works out to an average 120 Vac current draw of 9.57 amps being drawn at any time (if I did the math correctly ;) )
My laptop power supply claims it pulls 2.5 amps Vac so 1 laptop would be around 25% of your typical usage.
2 laptops plus DVR plus fileserver plus fridge and general usage would add up to 9.57 amps pretty easily, I would think.
Title: Re: Typical electric consumption? (was Electric Bill)
Post by: Forewheelers on March 08, 2015, 12:58:03 pm
We have had cold and snow the last two weeks in Arkansas. I keep ours in an enclosed shed with the aguahot and electric running, set at 50 degrees. The adjacent machinery shed is on the same meter with air compressors running, heater heating, and numerous other things so we can work on farm equipment. If I can afford that, I can justify keeping my toy warm until we can use it. This week it should warm up some. I hear the horse races calling me. Time to get it out.
Title: Re: Typical electric consumption? (was Electric Bill)
Post by: Mark D on March 08, 2015, 04:04:07 pm
Dave make no mistake I don't care that much. I just was lead to believe I have serious issues. Last summer we were using north of $300/mo so we've certainly made some good progress!