Drove a 2015 Realm today. Before I share my observations, here are the coaches I've owned.
2011 Tiffin Allegro Bus (all of about two weeks)
2011 Newmar Mountain Aire
2008 Newmar King Aire
2005 Foretravel u320
I liked the Realm. A lot. I've driven an IH and thought this drove as good or better. In fact, it is the best driving coach I've driven. It was stable and quite. Road vibrations were minimal.
I like the idea of Spartan nationwide support over just Foretravel. It is expensive to go to Nac for chassis work. Doing it right down the road (for "free" for the first 3yr/50k) is much much much easier. The fire suppression system is also a huge plus after having the crap scared out of me last summer seeing pics of a rig that went up way too quick to suit me.
The floor plan was good. Very functional. Interior colors were good and it was not over the top like many rigs today. It has most of the bells and whistles of the King Aire, but steel frame construction and from the belt up, this is absolutely a well built rig. Better than Newmar, in my opinion. From the belt down, it is a Spartan with which I have had excellent experience. And, it has the passive tag. It seemed to have turned as tight my 3/4 ton pickup. The price is, however, as of this writing a bit too high.
Newmar King Aire is a known value. Enough market data exists to know what a fair to good price and reasonable market times should be. I sold my last King Aire private party in about two weeks. Buying build number 2 of a new, much smaller production run, coach is very risky. I'm going to study on the risk some more before deciding if I will make an offer.
In the mean time, this rig was awesome. My wife likes it better than the IH and I might too if I can get over the risk of being an early adopter.
I did not see orange peel in the paint. All of the letters were still on the name when we came back. The people in Nac are not perfect but they are way way better than most of the competition out there. And, the Realm, is something they should be proud of. Good job team Foretravel!
Thanks for sharing your observations with us. I hope they do well with this coach. It will benefit us all.
Mark
At the Tampa Supershow, my untrained eye didn't see a whole lot of difference between the Realm and the IH. For whatever that's worth.
Let me add something on this early adopter idea. I have done that before and it turned out ok too. The chassis is not an early adopter and has thousands of them out there. The house is not FT first try at building. They just built it down in the second building and skipped the first building where they build the chassis. I would have no issue buying this for that reason. Also, they have built on a freightliner chassis before and in the past even concerted three busses.
I said earlier that I think this is how FT will end up. The only way to cut costs and not quality is the Spartan chassis. Saves them a lot of ways too. I am sure Spartan gets better prices on the drive train and tires to start and that is a huge savings. I am glad it drove well too. The old benefit of FT was the outside airbags but with IFS that is not and issue any longer.
John, do you think it would be possible that FT could partner with Spartan or Freightliner to build the chassis to FT specs at a lower
cost, with the outboard air bags, IFS and the retarder.
I'd bet any coach builder who wanted to could convince Spartan to build a chassis with IFS and the Allison retarder. Adding Active-Air would give many of the benefits of outboard air bags. I suspect outboard air bags only make sense with semi-monocoque construction.
I would be very interested in such a coach in a length under 40', a height under 12', and built to Foretravel standards.
I am sure they could put a retarder on and active air. It would not really require a lot of engineering and cummins approval either.
Joe, if you like it, maybe you should think of what price it's worth to you and make them an offer. I believe they are very motivated to sell Realms at this time.
This is what I got from Scott T. Wixson, Customer & Product Support (CPS), on the turning radius of the Realm, "the wall to wall turn radius on that chassis is 38.5 ft, and center of the tire turn radius of 35.5 ft." Now if the Realm would only start offering a satin finish versus the high gloss wood finish. I do not doubt they will soon.
Are both available as retrofits? I recall Jim Busby had Active Air retrofitted by HWH on his '09 Phenix so that one definitely is. The retarder is essentially an Allison option and maybe something that could be added?
Of course it would be easier to have such things installed at build time. The retarder and air leveling would set the Realm apart from the King Air and others built on the K3GT and you need to do things like that that to justify the higher price.
Yeah, and just thinking out loud, but they (air leveling and retarder) need to be standard, not optional with an attached uplift. There's a $200K difference, minimum, between the current Realm and King Aire and the typical RV buyer is not going to be able to justify that difference. There's even a bigger price difference, nearly $300K, between the Realm and the Entegra Cornerstone which MHSRV also sells, and I suspect the Realm price tag is selling folks on the Cornerstone... or the King Aire next door at Ancira...
You have to set yourself apart from the competition, especially when most people shopping at RV dealerships have never heard of Foretravel.
There appears to be a satin finish in Vila 2 at MHSRV now. Haven't seen it in person but looks that way online.
I had a quick look at the Realm parked at FOT last Tue. I had only been in the coach a minute or two and an engineer from the plant stopped in to answer questions. He was very interested in my thoughts and comments. Explained, the same guys are building the new coach as the Foretravels. Seemed so true to me in my quick look around.
I hope that they sell a bunch of them!
Well, I've tried but it appears the numbers are just too far apart. I know the Newmar is just not as well built. But as of this writing, I can't justify the cost difference. The purchase is too high and depreciation on a Foretravel already appears to be like the glide ratio of an F-4 Phantom.
What are the list prices for the Realm?
Jim
Motor Home Specialist's sales price for a 2015 Realm is $699,911 and a 2016 Realm is $749,911. Foretravel of Texas's sales price for a 2015 Realm is $699,911.
Larry
TBH I don't feel the Newmar King Air (or Essex) is any less well built than the Realm, that's certainly not the impression I got when I went through and crawled through them both. If that is what you are getting, you should be delighted.
The only thing that the Realm had that was way slicker was the way the slides worked / looked / etc. I was surprised they went with the full hydraulic, flush side wall, air bladder slides vs a lower cost solution in that space. Always loved the FT slides.
But in terms of other structure (they both use a lot of Aluminum), ride, woodwork, fit/finish, handling, insulation Rvalues, dealer support, electronics, serviceability, etc they were on equal grounds, and in fact the KA exceeded the Realm (again IMO) in several areas. I think some of that's to be expected since they are much more familiar with the chassis/bones they are building on, something FT will improve on over time as well and close that gap.
Motor Home Specialist has a sales price of $699,911 for a 2015 Realm.
Ancira has a sales price of $601,848 for a 2014 Newmar King Aire.
So what would be the sales price of a 2015 Newmar King Aire?
Post edited by John S.
2014 King Aire wholesale book is 508. Low fives is attainable on a 2014. Low 600's for a 2015 King Aire and low 500's for a 2015 Essex which now has the k3 w 600hp.
seems like running back up the middle for much of our economy anymore. We just lie to ourselves about "book value" on pretty much everything and there is always someone willing to make money on that false perception.
Funny thing this issue about Newmar as I met 3 owners in San Carlos Mexico who had one or have one now and they all wish they had never bought theirs. Many many problems and lousy factory service and support for a coach less than a year old.
JohnH
I think the idea of including retarder as standard is spot on but I don't think many RV buyers have any idea what it is or what it can do for them as drivers. Basically, no one is marketing it. Most RVers look at a transmission retarder and think PacBrake or Jake. And I'm not sure new buyers even think about those. I've been around RVs and motor home for decades and had no idea what a retarder was until I started reading this forum, actually.
Iif you want buyers to think of a retarder as a big plus you have to start educating them.
Craig
Absolutely. Fortunately for me, I educated myself mostly through this forum's Yahoo predesessor group before deciding a transmission retarded is a must have.
By the way, I was talking with one of the Spartan chassis people yesterday, and told him of what I read here about their good handling. I asked, and he said they would be happy to build a chassis with the transmission retarder, active air, and even shorter length. All a manufacturer needs do is ask.