Well here I go again. Was traveling west on I40 jus oveer the Oklahoma line when I noticed the Allison was in 5th gear and would not shift to sixth. Stopped at the East bound visitor centre to check the tranny fluid WITHOUT shutting the engine off. Glanced at the coolant reservoir and saw red tranny fluid. Looks like the tranny cooler that was installed in Maryland last spring has failed, don't have but 5000 miles on the thing. I am in Oklahoma City at the Allison dealer. Really do not like this cooling configuration where they use the engine coolant to cool the transmission fluid. Will have to call Maryland dealer tomorrow after I confirm it is the xmission cooler that failed. This really rots.
Roland
Sorry to hear about this breakdown, Roland. At least you are not out in the boonies...
Ouch.
That is a bummer! Man, I hope you get this solved and can put it in the rear view mirror soon. To fail that soon... there has to be a reason. Maybe the mounting points are stressing the assembly (not enough give in the mounts?). I feel your pain!
Don
WHEW ESCAPED THAT ONE. Just talked with the technician, transmission checked negative for glycol. Would not shift into 6th because some plug came loose. The transmission fluid in the engine coolant reservoir came from the old transmission cooler that is can integral part of the original radiator. Technician thinks they probably did not or could not flush that section very well last spring when I had the original problem. All I could see when I got here were $$$$$ flying away. What a relief.
Roland
GOOD NEWS! ^.^d
Appears the new transmission cooler that was put in four years ago has failed. If that is the case I've had it, just can't throw more $$$$ at this thing. I'm at another 10CB in repairs this year already and the money tree has shed it's last leaf.
So here is the symptom I'm getting. After parking overnight the transmission dipstick indicates a full level of fluid. Start and run the coach dipstick is dry. Transmission overheats in a very short period of time. No transmission fluid on the ground. Same symptom I had four years ago at 12CB to repair.
No more I'm done gonna get it to a salvage yard somewhere. A shame as I just put in 10CB already this year for the brake job and new tires. But enough is enough no more bleeding.
Maybe I could hope for a refrigerator fire.
Roland
Sorry to read of more troubles.
Any sign of transmission fluid in the plastic radiator overflow tank?
Any codes stored in the trans ECU?
Where are you parked?
Roland- very sorry to hear about your issue. The good news is that you have your place in Ajo now, so you and Carmen have a home. We were hoping to see you both at Quartzite in January, but it seems this might not happen. Maybe we can swing by Ajo sometime for a visit.
Maybe someone on the forum would like to buy your new tires and help you out a bit? Just a thought on how to make this better.
Best of luck Roland
Yes, need more info to give reasonable advice:
Any sign of oil in the coolant reservoir (milky/cloudy)?
Any sign of coolant in the transmission fluid or is it still clear pink?
No first hand experience with the Allison 4 speed, but never heard of checking fluid with the engine off. Fluid level engine running, transmission in neutral and COLD will be lower than when warm.
We are in Lakewood NM at an SKP coop park. Level in the plastic overflow tank is higher than it was before this happened. I was low on coolant but not anymore. I was hoping to see transmission coolant on the ground but nada.
HOW IT HAPPENED
Yesterday I drove eighteen miles to have new crossfires installed. Coming back I noticed that the transmission temp was very high. Checked the xmission coolant level and it was very low. Added a gallon with the engine off and it was not at the hot mark, but visible. I let everything settled overnight. Checked the level this morning and it showed full to the hot mark. Ran the engine engaged the transmission and sat there with the engine idling and the transmission in first for a few minutes. Put the transmission in neutral left engine running checked fluid dipstick came out dry. Checked level a couple hours later and fluid was at the full cold mark. Fluid looks clear. Kinda the same symptoms I had four years ago with a failed transmission cooler. Haven't run the coach any distance but with these symptoms I don't want to leave the campground to check anything further. Dipstick should not come out dry with the engine running with the transmission in neutral if stuff is working as it should.
Roland
Roland,
Listen carefully to Brett. Yes, you may have an issue but perhaps not as bad as it seems. While I would not spend another $12K, I would look at possibilities before writing the coach off. If the cooler has failed, possibilities would be to drain the transmission and go to an air to air cooler and then changing fluid several times to make sure all coolant is out of torque converter and transmission. Sure is nice to have the coolant and ATF separated with no chance to mix.
Probably not that expensive to have it towed from Ajo to Puerto Penasco. Lots of mechanics there that can do work for a fraction of the price. Probably tow also for a fraction of the price. Glad to call contacts I have there if you might consider it.
I've never liked trans coolers but that's water over the dam now.
Good luck. Really sorry to hear this.
Pierce
Roland,
I was thinking about something like this with an electric fan. 25-Row Dual Pass Fluid Cooler (https://www.mishimoto.com/universal-25-row-dual-pass-oil-cooler.html?fee=1&fep=2840&gclid=Cj0KCQjw6fvdBRCbARIsABGZ-vQmbgYYVjjlms8awGhdpYK9RPk2Nrp_75PwT7flVAYSOKwhaA2hnzgaArx7EALw_wcB)
or: 1030606-DS-12 - BD Xtrude Transmission Cooler with Fan - Double Stacked... (https://www.dieselperformance.com/shop/product/1030606-ds-12-bd-xtrude-transmission-cooler-with-fan-double-stacked-complete-kit-1-2in-lines-583)
Mounting a trans cooler on the radiator face might be a good idea and would take advantage of the existing fan(s).
With your Allison locking up in the higher gears, not that much heat is generated except in first and part of second gear.
Pierce
Roland sorry to hear about the problems, I had a silver bus with a 892 Allison 4 speed, and had a stand alone trans cooler with a fan and it worked great, just some food for thought. Good luck my friend.
Roland, sorry to hear of your problems. I hope there will be an easy and not too expensive solution. Good luck!
Roland, here is a picture of what is in our coach. I believe it is available from O'reilly's
The mount for the tranny cooling radiator is welded to the frame.
Roland take the advice change the Trans oil and separate the cooler. You could bypass the cooler with the correct fluid level and take it for a short drive to verify the Trans is not damaged further then get an air cooler. Company near me makes cement mixers they have a fantastic fluid to air cooler made for high flow with large fittings. Look to see who makes heavy duty equipment and see if they will sell you a cooler.
Although if you do sell it for salvage I am imagining your coach going with a line up of parts scavenging foretravel owners in tow trying to get their wish list filled first.
Wow! Sorry to hear Roland.
Pierce seems to have a good plan for you even if you don't jump right on it........not much deterioration of your FT in that New Mexico climate.
Good luck.
Sorry to here of your problems my friend, hope you can work through them and keep on going. But I do completely understand all the leaves gone on that side of the money tree. JMHO I would have to be looking in used bin for a transmission and cooler.
When I read your HOW IT HAPPENED, what comes to mind is that the tranny ATF fluid is too low, which I think you know. Why not add more for now to see if the correct level settles out again.
Does the radiator coolant look like it is mixed with oil, which must separate out on top of coolant after sitting for a while.
Is your tranny cooler separate or part of your radiator.
How did the previous year's repair show its face that made someone think that the tranny cooler failed. This current problem while looking the same, could be different.
In a previous coach, we did bypass the bottom of radiator tranny cooler and add two not-real-large radiator-looking tranny coolers with fan behind. We were able to position the new radiators in the air stream while driving.
While the earlier Allisons w/o lockup will produce a lot more heat, the later coaches with lockup should not need a large ATF to air transmission cooler. Something to think about in the older coaches as this failure could be a game changer.
If the cooler has the internal tubes brazed the choice of coolant is not as critical but soldered tubes may react to some coolant formulations.
Nice if members who may have changed over to ATF to Air coolers would document all the fittings, hoses, cooler(s), the route the hoses took plus how and where the cooler was mounted.
Pierce
OK I admit it. I panicked. Getting close to my move to Ajo and concluded the worst without any diagnostics. Not the transmission cooler. Finally got a chance to get under the coach this afternoon and I found the problem, I also found a bonus problem. One of the hydraulic hoses coming out of the transmission is leaking. Leaks when under way from what I can see. Not leaking enough to stop me from going to Ajo next week. Just a six hundred mile hop from here. Will be able to schedule repairs in Phoenix. Second problem may be more serious. Looks like the right rear wheel seal is also leaking. Gonna have to take a closer look at that tomorrow. Nothing I can personally do about it I'll have to check with a shop in Carlsbad NM. Make an appointment for early next week. Not easy to find a shop I can trust around here.
Roland
Dang. I wanted those tires. You coming through Deming, btw?
Any good truck repair shop can do the wheel seal, not motorhome specific.
BUT (yes, big BUT) the oil may have leaked onto the brake pads. If so you need to do a rear axle brake job.
Well shoot, I assumed the oil around the right rear wheel was from the seal. But it looked kinda light, must be transmission fluid. Makes more sense as the oil is on the backside of the inner wheel.Those brake pads were put on in Indianapolis this summer, bummer. The fun never ends.
Roland
Yes we will be going through Deming on I10.
Roland
Problem is all the big truck repair shops around here work on big trucks exclusively. Gotta keep the oil field trucks running.
Roland
Pads will clean up.
P
Oil on the backside of the inner wheel is indicative of a leaking axle seal. If the brake pads got some oil on them, they may not need to be replaced. I had my curb side seal replaced at Colton Truck Terminal, and though the pads had oil on them, they cleaned up fine with brake clean. Believe me, if they thought the pads were ruined, they would have been all too happy to sell me a new set! by the way, my pads are original to the coach and at last inspection, they were still at 75% to 80% at around a 160K miles. A testament to the effectiveness of the Allison retarder and of the beefy nature of these air disc brakes.
Don
I agree, not like a drum brake on a truck where the linings might get saturated with gear oil.
Road, as a quick fix to stop so e of the leaking hose, get a short piece of hose that has an inside diameter the same size as the outside diameter of bad one and cut thru one side of piece. Place this short one over bad area and put a bunch of hose clamps along it to secure it to the leaking hose. I did this with a bad rad hose going to filter and it lasted over 3 months till I got home to replace it with silicone one. I realise the pressures are different but it will work if not a bad leak.
JohnH
John the leak is at the connection with the transmission. If it's not raining tomorrow I'm going to see if I can tighten up the connection. I just took a quick look between showers this afternoon.
Roland
Call me. I'm home. I got a truck place.
Roland,is this a braided hose with the aeroquip fittings?,if so take the hose off and have one made somewhere,if you can tighten it
you can take it off,and can you take a picture.
Very easy to tell by smell whether this is ATF or gear oil.
OK confirmed two separate problems, just my luck. I have a transmission fluid leak AND a right rear wheel seal that is leak. The rear wheel seal leak was confirmed by color and odor, like Brett inferred kinda easy to tell the difference by smelling.
I can't tighten the fitting where the transmission fluid leak is, so I'm going to have to have a hydraulic shop take care of that. Going to try to make an appointment in Carlsbad to have the rear wheel seal leak fixed. Gotta find some transynd first however.
Roland
Glad to hear not a REAL big $$$$ thing but still a major PITA. Good luck on getting things resolved.
Roland,
Tell us your route and perhaps we can locate a dealer who handles Allison Transynd.
I actually bought my Transynd from the Allison distributor/repair shop -
Amazon does not carry - a quick Google search turned up this on-lne source - no idea RE price/shipping costs
http://www.merchant-automotive.com/Transynd1-Transynd-Full-Synthetic-Fluid.aspx?gclid=Cj0KCQjwr4beBRDNARIsAGZaZ5c9FhE-BrvPHQApuGwMIR6e_Nc9OCl6ds0UddksIoYHGezkfijVQxsaAtwtEALw_wcB
Tim Fiedler
Sure Start Soft Start (http://www.gen-pro.biz) - home of SureStart soft starters TCER Direct (http://www.tcerdirect.com) - home of Generac Approved Aluminum and Copper TCER Composite cable generator-gas-prod (http://www.generatorgasproducts.com) - home of X-Riser Gas Risers for PE installation Call me at 630 240-9139
Gen-Pro
If you are just topping off, you can buy it by the gallon.
But, if changing fluid, the 5 gallon pail is less/gallon. And, if changing, be sure to use genuine Allison filter kit.
I ordered the transynd on line. Should be in on Wednesday.
Roland
Roland, glad that you are not hanging it up ^.^d ^.^d It would be a shame to lose such a long term forum member who has contributed to the discussions so much and helped give confidence to go forward for those of us who have followed your path.
Larry
.
EXCELLENT! Just made it my screen saver (much better than the prior "cute kitten" photo).
Jury is still out on that.
Roland
Latest update. I had the right rear wheel seal replaced yesterday by an outfit in Carlsbad NM. I will supply the same and recommendations after this issue is resolved. After three seal was replaced we drove a couple hundred miles and stopped in a rest area on I 10 thirty miles east of Deming NM. Went outside to check stuff out and found a puddle of 90 weight oil on the ground. Now waiting to see how the outfit that did the repairs handles situation. Leaking worse now then before it was fixed.
You can't make this stuff up.
Roland
Man, you be snake bit.
I wonder if they are trying use new style seal, and the old style ware sleeve is still on the spindle. Take a look at Barry's post on page 2 in technical guestions ptoblems with front spindle.
It's the rear seal that is leaking not sure the front spindle is related. Thing is all that stuff was replaced this summer drums disks the whole nine yards on both sides. And Dickensons in Indianapolis got all their part numbers from Foretravel. In any case still sitting here waiting AND I'm not a good waiter.
Roland
The seals are similar, old seal spins on housing, new seal is stationary on housing and spins within itself. Sleeves were used on the old type seals and interfere with the new type.
Maybe as simple as the wrong bearing gap/lash setting. You do have to slide it over the end without crunching the spring or damaging the seal face.
Roland,remember the rear seal area gets the oil from the differential,would definitely check the oil level in it before driving too far,you have no way of knowing how low it is.
John am aware of the lube process back there. I can't even have the thing towed to a repair facility. Haven't moved the coach a half inch since we stopped last night. Leaking seal is bad enough don't want to have to replace the whole rear end. Folks that replaced the seal yesterday are sending someone out to put in a new seal at no cost to me. See how this is gonna work out. Going to make sure they fill the differential.
Roland
Keep us informed.
Craneman, good tip and helped Roland get the shop out to fix it. Probably oil not low but check for sure. It's on them!
Pierce
OK the outfit that replaced the leaking seal in Carlsbad had a mobile outfit from Las Cruces come out here too replace the seal at no cost to me. So this guy shows up in a Chevy van and I'm thinking ya gotta be kidding me. He had a compressor in the van and all the tools he needed except for a press to press the seal in. But more importantly he knew how to do the job. The seal that he removed was bunged up and was not properly installed. (The mechanic in Carlsbad did not seperate the disc from the drum when he installed the seal. I was not familiar with how to put the seal in, but I did remark to my DW that I didn't think I liked what he did.) When the mobile mechanic finished he added one and a half gallons of ninety weight oil so I was down quite a bit but not enough to mess up the bearings or differential. Guess it was good fortune that I stopped when I did last night. So tomorrow I will head towards Ajo and keep an eye out for any more issues with that seal. Will let ya know how it all works out and will then do the reveal on the names of the outfits that did the work at that time.
Roland
Glad you are able to be mobile again, sorry that you are having all these issues at once. When it rains it pours, hopefully your umbrella is nearby.
Larry
Glad you are rolling again. Hope to see you at Quartsite this year.
So in retrospect next remark to them it does'nt look so good or at least ask the guy how many seals he has installed,if the answer
is 0,watch like a hawk.
Arrived in Ajo late this afternoon. Going to get under the coach and check the differential level. I suspect the seal is leaking but that's just me. I'll check on Monday and let ya all know
Roland
Glad you made it. Might also check the oil in the rear end, a gallon and a half is a lot of add oil even with a seal leaking.
I hope you are wrong. The other (bad) seal leaking that much lube must have made a real mess on your wheels, tires and axle. At this point I don't know how you would be able to tell if the replacement seal is also leaking.
Chuck
Yeah , that's why I have to crawl under there on Monday to check the level in the differential. The seal that was leaking badly was all bunged up. The technician, and I use that them loosely, took a shortcut and did not seperate the drum and disk when he installed the seal. Lorenzo the mobile mechanic told me that it was impossible to tell if the seal was seated correctly doing it that way.
Roland
You may also want to see what that diff has for a vent and make sure it's not plugged.
With the miles that we run compared to OVR trucks, the old style seal that pushes into the inner end of the hub should work fine. We should not have much if any grooving on the axle stub. This is easy to install with the drum or disc still attached to the hub. You have to guide the hub onto the stub carefully for sure but it seams to push on well.
While maybe a Superior seal , the two piece non rotating seal, stands a good chance of being ruined each time you remove the hub IMHO.
Second on the axle vent. Check for sure .
Well I crawled under the coach yesterday. Differential was down a quart. That's one quart for 375 miles. So the seal is still leaking. Am wondering if I have the correct part number. I got the part number from Foretravel, but the drum disc brakes brake cans etc were all replaced last summer wonder if the seal is different then OEM. Seems if the axle vent was at fault both seals will be leaking.
Roland
Not necessarily on the axle vent and both seals leaking, the weakest seal will fail first and relieve pressure. Drove my coach home 1400 miles and did not check differential lube because there was no evidence to suspect it might be low, and had been serviced. Got home and discovered when I pulled the level plug that it was overfilled by TWO gallons. The only thing I could figure out is the tech filled thru the vent opening.
Might try getting the tag I'd # off the rear end and check with NAPA. I doubt the seal is special to Foretravel. Don't quote me but seems like mine are something like 37001A. I'm not at the coach for the next week so I can't check it. With that said it would hard to install the wrong seal. I agree with you something is not right. Installing axle seals is basic 101 in truck world, not rocket science.
Do you see any leaks? Were you level when you filled? Level when you rechecked? 1 quart is almost nothing it could have just been down in axle tubes. You should be able to see if oil is leaking still.
1 quart could be a heat expansion difference.
Loosing one quart of oil while driving would make a HUGE mess and you would smell gear lube just by walking around the coach.
Sitting with the fill plug a little high would easily account for a reading 1 quart different.
Yes I smell the differential oil when I walk behind the coach. And yes it made a &_$#@ mess on my car. And no it was not overfilled by the mobile repair technician. And yes the seal is still leaking and that's why I believe I have the wrong seal. I will call Dickensons in Indianapolis next week too see if I can get a seal part number from them.
Roland
Will try and find a parts breakdown we can look at,unless you trust that place with your life my thinking is one shop put a wrong
seal and/or installed wrong why should another one be any different.Also Roland,I remember the Stemco webb site did have some
install videos,may be worth looking at.
Plan on bringing the coach to Rush Truck repair outside of Phoenix to replace the still leaking rear seal. Anyone ever heard of these floods. This is my last go around with this seal.
Roland
Rush should be able to handle it, be sure and give them the history on it. Hopefully it will make them take a good close look at it. Good luck.
I would re-phrase: Hopefully, they will put a SENIOR/QUALIFIED TECH on it. You have paid for enough OJT.
Brought the coach to Rush Trucking yesterday too repair the leaking wheel seal. Labor rate is a bit steep at $140 an hour. Will see how this goes last shot for me.
Roland
Good luck, labor rates are gettin way out there.
Received a call from Rush Trucking, seal is OK looks like a cracked housing. If the housing is cracked it happened when our brakes exploded on that side last summer, something Dickenson's in Indianapolis should have caught perhaps. If they can't weld it too seal the housing the coach is going to salvage. Have to stop the bleeding.
Roland
I hope they can weld it.
A good welder can fix almost anything. I remember using a shop in Los Angeles to narrow a rear end plus spline the shorter axles so it would fit in a Jaguar sedan. Great job and never a problem after that. They are already ahead of other shops by identifying the problem. The new year will be good to you!
Pierce
JB Weld is a miracle cure for a lot of things. Give it a try if all else fails. I have patched engine blocks with the stuff— it works. Secret is to clean everything well before starting. Good luck.
Weld it gently, buff it up with a die grinder or bead blast the area. 5 min epoxy the problem area.
Marine Tex works good. Even a fuel tank repair patch should seal it up .There is no pressure on it
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/versachem-5169/paint---body-repair-16614/body-repair-25202/metal-repair-17687/752ab182e1b8/versachem-fuel-tank-repair-kit/90180/4776672
It could always be worse. Several years ago we owned a Monico Executive and while driving down the road the differential froze and left us on the side of the road. After that experience we sold the coach.
I guess it depends where the crack is as to how to repair it. If it be in the area where the seal mounts on the machined area it will require a bit more work as far a fit and finish.
I have had great results with Devcon metal filler both for filling holes/cracks and building up areas on castings then machining it etc. We used to use it in England on massive diesel engine blocks and transmission cases during rebuilds. These units where sometimes half or more the size of our coach's. Napier Deltics.That stuff also was used by me to repair the 4 big holes in my CAC a bunch of years ago and still hold strong.
John H
I second the use of Devcon. Way better than JB weld. Prepping any surface is key!
Here is a link to Devcon Products. There are a lot more than I was aware of:
Devcon (https://itwperformancepolymers.com/products/devcon)
Hey Roland, any progress?
Haven't heard anything today. I may give them a call tomorrow. I do know that they are busy with the OTR rigs at this time of year.
Roland
Called Rush Trucking housing not cracked it is the wheel seal that was leaking. That's the good news. Bad news is the monkeys that worked on it before Rush bunged up three studs that need to be replaced. Studs are so bad they can't get the wheels back on, they be looking for replacements.
Roland
We'd all be interested what happens. I'm putting together a list I can post of outlets that have done good/bad/insane work on our Arizona Coaches.
Are they left hand thread??
These are for the rear wheels on the passenger side so they are right hand thread.
Roland
Not sure why they are having a hard time getting thank I think they should have them on hand. Any good time shop should have them also. JMO
Roland
Went to Rush Trucking today. Asked how they were coming along. They told me that they did not have an account with Foretravel and that I needed to order the studs and have them sent to them. Not sure how long it would have taken them to let me know. Not very communicative kinda glad we are not full-time anymore, although if we were still full timing I would have been a bigger PITA. They did replace the wheel seal I hope the third time is a charm. Foretravel will ship the studs tomorrow.
Roland
Hopefully this will end your ordeal and you can get back to the reality of enjoying your coach.
I sure hope you get you issues resolved, you have sure had a time of it.
Wonder why Foretravel enters into it as it's a commercial rear end with only the Meritor brakes being different. Lots of shops don't know much about Meritor but here are the studs from Meritor's site: https://www.meritorpartsxpress.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchDisplay?categoryId=63501&storeId=10154&catalogId=10051&langId=-1&sType=SimpleSearch&resultCatEntryType=2&showResultsPage=true&searchSource=Q&pageView=&beginIndex=0&pageSize=12&isRequestComingFromPrimarySearchBar=isRequestComingFromPrimarySearchBar&searchTermScope=102&searchTerm=studs#facet:&productBeginIndex:0&facetLimit:&orderBy:&pageView:list&minPrice:&maxPrice:&pageSize:&
You shop may not be sure of the right part number as there are several available so perhaps going through Foretravel.
Pierce
Pierce
I discussed this with the service writer. Asked what was so special about the studs on Budd wheels. He said that they had studs that would fit but wanted to make sure they had the OEM part. Can't complain about that.
Roland
Probably for liability purposes as he didn't want to be "deep pockets" if problems arose. A good deal for both of you.
P
OK got the coach back today. Drove to Ajo with the toad hooked up. Did not have any oil on the toad when I got to Ajo. Cost a bit over a coach buck, so more then the mobile guy charged but they also replaced three wheel lugs. I guess time will tell if it's finally fixed. All they did was replace the seal and three lug nuts ( I supplied the lug nuts via Foretravel).
I did not pay the mobile mechanic as I did not hire him. Tres Hombres in Carlsbad NM was supposed to pay him, that's what they told me and the mobile mechanic. Last I heard Tres Hombres did not compensate the mobile mechanic. At least that's what he told me when he came after me for payment.
Roland
OUCH, well hopefully it's fixed correctly this time. Might as well load up Samson and take a little road trip to Q.