Headed up to Conroe early in the morning... to install new Governor, and hopefully get the air bags to fill up and brakes to release.. It's the last two days to get it moved..
Also will try to find fuses or shorts in the leads for all the gauges..
I think it would be stupid to drive without gauges..
I may drain a gallon of existing oil and replace it with a gallon of new just to add some
viscosity to the existing for the 51 mile trip.. its black and a little thin feeling to me..
When I fired up motor for the first time yesterday... there was a puff or so of smoke.. then nothing more.. hoping that's a sign it's pretty tight .. :)
Wish I had at least another week to work on it before I drive in.. !!!
Mark
(Changed topic title to reflect discussion content - Michelle)
Mark, Keep us posted, nothing better to do on a rainy day than live vicariously thru your adventures.
Drive carefully.
Gary B
Going through the hassle of replacing one gallon of oil seems like a waste of your valuable time to me. Better to get the coach home and drain the oil while it's hot.
Mark,
It will be easier for folks to answer your questions if you posted them in their own topics with related/descriptive titles. General topics and those with lots of different questions that vary from general road service to a a specific filter number often get only a brief glance. Splitting out the sub-discussions after the fact makes for a lot of work for the moderators.
Thanks,
Michelle
Mark, when you get time could you please put your name & coach description above your signature flag phrase.
Update...
A real long day today working on the Coach.. I called Pocket Change and Pierce for advice this afternoon.. thanks Guys.. guess I'm needing someone who owns an 89 like mine.. The bolts wouldn't brake loose holding the Compressor Governor.. I was afraid I would break them.. later decided it most likely isn't a governor problem... I hooked up a little bigger compressor into the 110 volt onboard compressor hose.. the dashboard pressure gauge would never pump up over 30 pounds.. I fired the Detroit up, so running its compressor along with the one I added, it then went as high as 35 pounds.. so.. I feel the Detroit compressor is doing its job along with the governor.. someplace I must have a bad leak.. but I cant hear it leaking anywhere.. finally found the 3 air tanks, they are all side by side hidden in the center of the coach behind the 3 batteries ... I ran the compressors for an hour. when I pushed the foot brake, it would drop pressure on the gauge.. and I didn't feel any air coming out the bottom of the air dryer back in the engine room.
I can hear what sounds like one of the tanks filling with air or leaking?? ... if it were a small leak I know I would hear it.. it must be a major hole some where.. so major, that the compressors cant fill past 35 psi max...
I found three cables to release air from tanks.. pulling all of the cables.. one tank was squirting water, one was squirting mud, and one was clean.. The air tanks are hard see or to get at... the leak could be anywhere.. a bag? maybe one of the tanks rusted thru from the inside, from moisture sitting in the tank un-drained for years ?
My only thoughts are.. maybe to bring in a big gas powered compressor that puts out a constant 100 psi.. so maybe I can hear it leaking some where in the system..
If that doesn't work.. I will bypass the air dryer.. what else is there to do.. ? I cant afford to bring in a service truck or high dollar mechanic.. and tomorrow is the last day I have to remove the coach from the property.. I will drive back to Conroe to talk with the manager of the property.. to try to persuade her into letting me rent for one more month while I try to figure this out...
Mark :)
I checked fuses under the dash, but couldn't find any blown that would be operating the oil pressure, water temp and transmission temp gauges.. I'll take an Ohms meter with me next trip..
Was there a floor safe that comes with the Grand Villa's ?
if not, I'd like to probably put one in...
Amos, it only took me about 15 minutes to do it.. I feel a little better now :)
Mark, see if you can pull up the carpet in front of the pass seat. That is the normal location for the floor safe option.
When we went to pick up our coach four years ago, the guy that cleaned & prepped our coach was all excited about "something" he found. Turned out that when he was vacuuming up front he noticed the carpet was loose, so he pulled up on it to see how much carpet he would have to glue down. That is when he found the safe.
Mark, If you have not already done it make sure that the drain valves on the three air tanks are all closed, they could pass a major amount of air. The presence of mud and water in those tanks is a major problem, if its in the tanks it could also be in the lines.
My free advice, Call CoachNet and enroll and pay fee, wait til check clears and then call them back and have them tow coach , hopefully they would tow it home for you, if not then to nearest point where repairs can be done. My worry is brakes with mud and water in them.
I bought an old car once, it had hydraulic brakes and every line was rusted thru, no metal lines here but calipers could freeze up and slack adjusters don't need to be corroded.
Gary B
Mark,
You obviously have a air leak, probably more than one. This is not unusual, especially in a "resurrection" project. You must get the air situation under control, because you can't move the coach until the suspension is at "ride height". The air dryer doesn't constantly exhaust air, so if you hold your hand under it you won't feel anything coming out until your air system is at max pressure. At that time, if everything works correctly, the dryer will go through a purge cycle. There won't be any question in your mind when that happens - especially if you are standing nearby!
Bypassing the dryer might be more of a project than you imagine. You can search this Forum for numerous posts on that subject.
Bypassing the dryer will
probably not fix your air leak(s), unless the
only leak in your system is the purge valve in the dryer (unlikely).
I'm not trying to discourage you - just want you to know that chasing air leaks can be a long, frustrating chore. I HIGHLY recommend you find SOME way to leave the coach where it is, until you have time to get it into proper traveling condition. Or, get it towed (on a flatbed).
Thanks Gary.. very frustrating .. I did pay for a roadside service already and the checked cleared.. but its for roadside emergencies isn't it? Its parked in a storage Lot... I don't know if that constitutes usage..
Not to mention.. it's not aired up, how can they tow it if the brakes are locked? and the suspension is not at traveling height. ?
I pulled the drain cock wire cables from the underside of the coach.. I assume they are spring loaded? I cant really get to the tanks as there is minimum access to where they are installed.
I guess jacking up the coach or ramping it would probably be the only way to check?
Thanks cajk, your saying it cant be towed either when it's not at ride height.? and with the brakes locked, how would they get it on and off a flat bed?
Mark,
Sorry I was not home the second time you called. Please leave your phone number and I will call you back.
I would pressurize the system with air from your 110V compressor you said you have. You can pick up a mini-dryer to go inline if you like. As our coaches are really different, you need to find out from an owner of your type coach where the best spot is to pressurize the air system. We did this all the time to move fire trucks. Since the pressure builds to 30 psi pretty quickly, I suspect after all these years, an airbag has a leak. Hard to find with the diesel running but with the coach pressurized from an outside source, you should be able to hear the leak or use a soap/water solution to see the leak. Does not take much to bring the pressure down.
With water and mud coming out of the air tanks, you may need to replace the air dryer. In the old days, we did not have dryers and had to drain the tanks each morning. Don't move the coach unless you have around 100 psi on the gauge. It will cycle back and forth between about 80 and 100. After it comes up to pressure and the air bags fill, don't let your mechanic friend climb under without safety suspension inserts to keep the coach from rapidly coming down and crushing anyone underneath should an old airbag suddenly fail.
Watch the thermostat like a hawk until you are sure it is working. The DDEC will shut it down before damage but not a good idea. Don't idle the engine for more than 5 minutes. Don't expect the parking brake to be effective on much of a hill. Especially until you have checked the brakes, Buy and use chocks everytime you park.
The towing company can release the parking brake. Dangerous to do if you don't know what you are doing as the spring is highly compressed and can cause serious injury. Towing companies can also feed air to your rig to bring it up to height. We used an air line from one truck to another to tow with a chain when we had a dead engine. Not recommending towing with a chain!
Pierce
Unless I'm missing something....you're problem IS the air dryer. If it doesn't signal the governor, the compressor will not pump air. Bypassing is simple once you have the parts. Join the 2 large lines together and plug off the line from the governor and you should air up whether you have leaks or not.
First thing I would do is remove the 2 filters off the dryer and see if it will air up without them. If so, just change filters. If not, bypass and you can drive without it.
Thanks Twig, I was thinking the same, but others are saying different..
I guess I'm confused why my separate 120 volt compressor tied into the existing 120 volt on-board utility compressor wouldn't pump up the system either... the dryer shouldn't have had anything to do with that? or no?
Mark, When you tell Coach Net that you are BROKE DOWN its really none of their business that it has been setting. Simply tell them that you cant get up air and want towed home, they may tell you they will tow you only to nearest place that do repairs. They will also offer to send a mobile mechanic, however if they send a mechanic and he can't get it going they will not then pay for a tow.
Wish I was closer and I would be glad to help but its a long way to Georgia.
Gary B
Thanks Gary,
My road side service has to tow me anywhere I want up to 100 miles at no charge, that was a stipulation I looked for before I signed with anyone..
Another problem might be that my coach was pulled in and not backed in like all the other coaches. It will have to be pulled from the back side... I don't know if you can or should do that with the Foretravel..
Mark,
Our later coaches don't have a 110v compressor. Just another difference between years.
Pierce
Update..
I called the storage lot, today was the deadline it had to be moved..
She knew I was there all day yesterday till dark working on it.. Told her I'd like to send her some money via credit card over the phone, said I have it running now, but the air suspension and air brakes are leaking and will require more time. She took my $145. for another month and reiterated the owner of the property wants that space now. I guess because she saw me there so many times in the last 2 weeks making an effort, She decided to work with me. What a huge albatross off my shoulders... She was actually very polite and friendly on the phone, unlike the vibe I encountered two weeks ago !
The dryer will be the first thing I address on Monday or Tuesday..
I bought a new Bendix Governor, I may as well install it too.
I can put a cheater pipe on the D2 Governor next to the compressor, the bolts are extremely tight..
If they should snap off, I don't see an issue of just letting it hang, suspended by the two lines running to it.. or securing it elsewhere.. there isn't a lot of room to work with it.. the top line comes off pretty easy.. the bottom intake line wont come off till I unbolt the D2 Governor from the compressor.
I removed the quarter panel of the coach covering the passenger side of the Detroit motor yesterday.. it gave me better access to the dryer and motor... it's installed next to the power steering pump.
It will be much easier to change the oil and filters now with the panel off. The docking light wasn't even wired up ... Someone has obviously removed it before.. some of the stainless screws were missing.
Mark
Mark when you have your 110 compressor running is your key on ? On my 92 I can air up my tanks but if I don't turn my key on it will not air up my bags.
Mark, glad to see you removed panel as some owners seem to refuse doing that and yet it makes life so much easier to work on things. I have full body paint but do not let that stop me. Goog luck on it all. The tow guys can relaese the brakes mechanically and pull it out and then tow. maybe life would be a lot smoother if you did get it home regardless off the extra time you now have at storage. Things allways seem to go better when you have everything handy and not having to drive back and forth.
JohnH
Well, that's interesting... no, I didn't have the key on with just the 110 compressor running.. but I did have the Detroit actually running for a while as to try to utilize both compressor's.. so, the key was on that time, but stil to no avail ::) thanks
Thanks John, but what about the suspension not being aired up? it doesn't need be, to be towed?
Mark
Yes, the hundred plus mile round trip is exhausting..
My 1990 U280 has the 110v compressor as well. It does air up the air bag suspension without the key on. The only requirement on mine is that the 12V master switch located just inside the entrance door must be on for the compressor to run--- it has a 12V control circuit.
Glad you got the extra time. If you can find the air leak and get her aired up, life will become much simpler. Then if you have no dragging brakes, you should be able to drive her home.
Mark, Soak all those bolts on the D2 with some kind of penetrant to loosen them up.
Gary B
You can't just let the governor hang it has ports in the body and a gasket where it mounts.Look at your new one. Remove the air lines and heat the bolts with a propane torch and then try and loosen.
Spray the bolts with PB Blaster, wait 15 minutes, tap them with a hammer and they will probably come loose. PB Blaster is good stuff!
The D2 governor mounting is very versatile. Ours is not mounted with a gasket and could be temporarily hung with a cable tie. We have small air lines that connect to the D2, which is fixed to our coach frame with bolts.
We also did not leave the exhaust port open for dirt or water to enter. We put hose barb in the exhaust port and hung about 2' of hose facing down, with an open end for D2 to breath. Others have used a bronze filter in the exhaust port.
I made a double ended fitting with a ball valve to backfill with an external compressor. Uses the tire fill air line. Gary Omel idea
Mark, we are 2 or 3 hrs behind you so replies are a bit later in morning. Yes you do need clearance between tires and underbody but also if you can get a truck with a low boy flat deck it can be towed that way. They put ours on one this Jan so check and see ..
JohnH
Here is a video on how to "Cage" the rear brakes to release for towing. This will allow the coach to be winched onto a flatbed. This can be done even if the tires are rubbing in the wheel well.
How to cage an air brake (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSqQTKs6v2A)
Bypass the dryer and install a new governor. You'll get air if the engine is running. Enough to hear if you have a major leak.
Peter,
Very good video on cageing an air brake.
A very clear picture of what goes on inside the rear brake cans.
JD
Is this something new?
I remember the big rigs idling all night
in the truck stops when I was younger..
Mark
Mark,
Many old wives tales have ruined or shortened the life of engines and transmissions. We had frequent Detroit Diesel seminars that focused on many "old school" operational patterns that the factory wanted to eliminate and provide us with the longest, trouble free life they were designed for. Each morning, the rigs were started, pulled out on the ramp and as soon as the air parking brake was applied, the fast idle switched on bringing the engine speed up to 1000 rpm. They were never allowed to slow idle unless we were in traffic.
In cold weather, many operators idled their engines for an extended period or even all night to prevent the fuel from gelling. There are many additives in the fuel or available at parts stores to eliminate this possibility today. Plus, sub-freezing temps and no glow plugs in direct injection diesel may mean no starting in the morning.
Your electronic engine control (DDEC II) has the option of an automatic engine shutdown after 8 minutes of idling. Some companies had this as the default setting to discourage the old practice. The 600 rpm idle will not allow the oil squirters to fill and cool the hollow piston crowns and they will expand wearing the bore once the oil pressure drops. It does also not circulate coolant well enough to keep engine temperature stable in very hot summer weather. Also, carbon will be deposited in the top compression ring groove and can cause the top ring to stick and break. With the new EGR engines, exhaust particulates will also build up on the rings and valve seats possibly cause valve failure. This is a possible reason for the high horsepower Cummins valve failures. Unless you buy and keep the Pro-Link 9000 installed, the Detroit as installed with the automatic transmission in our coaches does not have a fast idle provision. Too many operators would engage it with the transmission in drive and the Allison computer was not programmed to shift out of drive when the fast idle was engaged. The Pro-Link even warns you twice before going into the 1000 rpm fast idle mode.
On any diesel after a medium to hard pull, engine life can be extended by fast idling (1000 rpm) the engine for several minutes to allow the coolant and oil to cool so heat soak will not damage the engine or coke the turbo. Some of the later coaches have this feature built in to their cruise control. Yours does not.
Pierce
Wow Pierce, what a great explanation.. I had no idea.. and not to mention all the time it took you to type this..
I will copy it to paper and keep it on file.
Much appreciated.. !!!
Mark ^.^d
Mark,
You are very welcome. We are all newbies in one subject or another. Our big rigs are very complex, even more so than first appears. Takes a while to come up to speed. Much better to ask questions now than to know it all and later hurt your coach or yourself.
While I learned to type a long while ago, a lot of times my fingers work faster than putting my brain in gear. :D
Pierce
I have the opposite problem, my typing is slower than my brain... :o
I am headed back to Conroe to take another stab at the leak.. first up, try to break the bolts loose
for the Governor, replace it and then see what I can do with the dryer.. someone said there are two filters?
I am assuming one is in the dryer itself.. Try to figure out how it comes apart, remove the filter, clean any crud I see.. measure for bypass pipe ? take parts home.. I would assume freightliner sells whatever I need to bypass the dryer..
Mark
Mark, you can't just clean the dryer filter. You must replace it, there is a service kit you can get at NAPA auto parts for it.
Richard B
Working on the air dryer can be simple, or complicated. I suggest the following steps. First, determine what model dryer is installed on your coach. Take a good look at it - get a couple photos of it, if possible. It might have a identifying decal of some kind, if you are lucky. If not, post the photos here, and someone on the Forum might be able to tell you what model it is. If that doesn't work, you can remove it from the coach and take it to the local NAPA store. They will
probably have a filter kit for it (good solution) or they might have a complete remanufactured unit in stock (IMO, the best solution, considering the age of your coach). Also, depending on the model of your dryer, you might have the opportunity to "upgrade" to a newer, more efficient design. Good luck!
When I have mine parked at the house for a long time, if not in the level mode, it eventually starts to sag low on the rear. I hook up a little pancake compressor to the auxiliary air hose, turn the ignition key on, open the auxiliary air line valve and fill it to 120psi or so. That brings it up although it takes awhile. I guess the onboard 110v compressor could fill the air bags from zero but it would take a really long time. The auxiliary air hose and valve can likely be accessed through the little compartment door behind the entry door.
jor
My 1990 U280 with 110v compressor in the storage bay will air up the coach to 110lbs in about 5 minutes. All that is necessary is to turn on 12V master switch and the 3rd switch located next to the steps. The key does not have to be on.
Ok... I should have thought of you tube before.. I'm trying to familiarize myself with the dryer...
Here are two pretty good short videos on the Dryer and one on the Governor.
Sheesh.. the dryer is huge.. I will call NAPA to see what the replacement cost is...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAZJuaX1xNM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHGcXvDmZ5E
Thanks John, there are some switches next to the steps.. I didn't know what they are for..
There should be a core charge involved - you pay one price when you get the replacement, you get $ back when you return the old one. Remanufactured (as long as it's factory-done) will be cheaper and just as good as new. Just so you don't end up needing a fitting, it's usually easier to pay the larger amount then go back with the old unit after you do the replacement to get your core charge back. Our NAPA didn't care if that took several days/weeks; but did ask that we use the same box to return the old one if possible.
Master switch = Salesman switch?
My 1999 U320 has 3 switches near the steps. None for air.
Is there a manual switch in a U320 somewhere?
best, paul
My U320 has a 12V compressor and I can't get it to work.
I called NAPA
For the dryer they quoted me 200. for a remanufactured one and 379. for a new one ...
I'm not real sure he gave me prices for the correct dryer. The brand name was Haldex
At any rate, they don't stock them and would have to order it
Also stated he sells a cartridge for it ... ?
there is a desiccant in the dryer (cartridge) at this point you should go with new or reman - the prices sound a bit high, but others will chime in - can you post a picture of the dryer on your coach?
I cant post a picture.. The coach is 54 miles from me,
Your thinking the prices sound high? Good.. I was afraid they were going to be higher...
Factory (i.e. the factory that built it, not Chinese knock-off or reman by Bubba) is just fine.
And if Bendix AD-2, an AD-9 is a direct replacement in terms of how it is hooked up.
Thanks Wolfe,
so you think mine is a AD-2 ? and an AD-9 will work too ? These should be the same as whats on mine?
Mark I just replaced my AD-4 this spring and bought a new AD-9 from my local Peterbuilt store and it fit with no problems and works great. one note If your dryer is not purging check the back side of the compressor , when I had trouble with mine there was a plug missing. I did not fined it until I bought the new dryer, put the plug in and bingo everything worked. Just a thought.
Freightliner wants 542.00 for an AD-9 .. this is a new part and they don't offer reman's
I found it online for a lot cheaper.. for way under 200.
I'm gonna hold off on the dryer for now.. just going to bypass it..
When you remove the air dryer you will be surprised at how much water accumulates in the wet tank. Be sure to drain it frequently. Water and air brakes do not mix.
Gary B
Gary, from my sperience, if your getting moisture/water in the wet tank when you have a air dryer, you waited too long before servicing it or it is very defective. If that is the case, driving in freezing weather you most likely will have bad issues with brakes from the freezing.
@Dave M,
Question. (I'm asking for Mark's benefit, and also for anyone else who has ever found water in one or more air tanks) Gary's old coach has sat unused for some time. Could the water in his tanks be simply caused by long-term condensation? If he installs a new or rebuild dryer, and gets his coach running, then the "new" air going into the tanks should be dry. Can the existing water (moisture) in the tanks then be gradually removed by frequent tank draining? I would think (hope), that as you continually push dry air into the tanks, and remove water from the low points in the plumbing (drains), that you would eventually dry out the system.
All three air tanks have drains. That is what they are there for, to drain water. The wet tank is called the wet tank for a reason. The tank drains should be exercised every time you run the coach to drain any accumulated moisture.
Dave, My experience was that the dryer was removed and bypassed so I could get it home. When I drained the tanks there was a tremendous amount of water just from a days drive. It accumulates fast and as you say cold weather, water and air brakes do not mix.
Gary B
No, as new moisture laden air would have to be constantly introduced into the tank.
We didn't have air dryers and in a coastal city, we got a significant amount of water each morning when checking the tanks. Even a desert climate will have moisture in the air that will condense in the tanks.
Pierce
Mark,
Here is a link to everything you could ever want to know about your air dryer.
Air Dryers/Air Line - Haldex (http://www.haldex.com/north-america/applications-products/literature/Brake--Suspension-Systems-Literature/Airline--Air-Dryers/)
Keith
OK, now here is something I do not have on our ORED, but am still interested.
I do not know what the air dryer or an AD-9 even looks like. What I do know is what a desiccant does--it removes moisture from the air.
When my company built and crated 50 drilling machines for the U.S. Government, part of the Level A crating specifications required using a desiccant before closing up the crate. When the "Guvmint" inspector saw the open barrel containing the desiccant packages he told me he would fail every on of our machines. I asked why. His reply was that the d-pkgs were sitting open and soaking up moisture. If we would bake them in an oven at 250 degrees for four hours to remove the moisture he would then certify the machines for payment.
Could it be possible to do the same baking for the air dryers used on your coaches? It does mandate having a spare.
Hi, I have been lurking here for a while. Purchased our 1990 u300 about 6 months ago.
I found the two "dry" tanks up front and see what I guess is the "wet" tank near the rear end. I see a line coming off the bottom of that tank but don't see where it goes.
Does anybody know where this drain should be on my coach?
Air Dryer Bypass Demo
Thanks to cajk's link on the bypass demo, on page one of this thread, which led to further links.. Emergency Air Dryer Bypass (http://beamalarm.com/Documents/emergency_air_dryer_bypass.html)
Thanks also to BeamAlarm !!
I was able to purchase today exactly the parts I needed
for the bypass... had to go to a hydraulics
hose and fittings company to make the purchase. ... so still putting things together today for the governor Remove and replace, and the dryer bypass.. I ve decided to also do a
a filter and motor oil change on site..
I have the oil and the filter.. so why not.. I just feel the oil is still too darn thin...
Main objective of coarse is getting the coach to air up...planning on driving up now Tomorrow..
Still have some tools to dig up
Mark
PS.. I also purchased a "90 degree" 3/4" male flare to 3/4" male flare.. "one piece" .. I think this will work fine.
I purchased the 3 pieces to make the U shaped bypass too, but the one piece 90 will most likely prove to be all that's needed, eliminating the problem to bend or reroute the hoses straight.
Mark, if you feel that the oil is too thin, why not take a sample and send it to Blackstone labs or any other oil sampling company. You might have a fuel issue that is contaminating the oil. Sure wouldn't hurt.
1990 U300 wet tank drain.
Not sure about yours, but my 1990 U280 wet tank drain is piped out to the passenger side just in front of the rear wheel. There is a spring loaded valve there with a wire ring in the center post. Push the center post upward or to the side to bleed the tank.
Nitehawk.....my '89 ORED has an air dryer yours should too unless you have a hydraulic system. Mine is at the drivers side rear
I don't think I have one. My brake pedal/cylinder under the floor, has an electric motor boost. Only thing in the driver's side access panel to the engine is a small radiator mounted horizontally and has an electric fan on it. I think it is for the transmission.
Our coach is the basic, no fancy frills, just a super reliable old Foretravel that is like an old Timex watch. It takes a licking but keeps on ticking.
Nighthawks sounds like Hydraulic brakes with spring /leaf suspension I think. The motor on hyd brake cylinder is for emergency braking if hydr pressure drops and is not holding. I had that setup on the 93 225 ORED.
JohnH
Interesting John & Nitehawk....I figured all the ORED's were the same. Mine has air brakes and on the 4 air bag suspension system. I 'm always learning something new on this forum. Love it!
Probably not a bad idea.!!!
Update...
The dryer bypass went well ... I am taking back my remark on the usage of the 90 degree double male 3/4" flare fitting. The 3 piece works fine.. and absolutely no fighting with the lines.... :))
The Governor didn't fare so well.. lines came off without a hitch.. left bolt backed off fine...... but the right bolt head rounded off.. (rolleyes) before I got it too rounded I went and bought a set of special sockets to grab the head, it advertised, even for rounded heads, no problem.. yah right.. waste of money!
Soooooo.... out comes the sawzall.. 90 degree nipple for wet tank line had to be sawed off first.. then on to the right rounded bolt head.. cut the head off, although the bolt heads weren't marked hardened that I could see.. It sure cut like it was.. I went thru 3 blades cutting that one stupid little half inch wrenched bolt head off...
But now theres a burr, and it wouldn't allow me to pry the governor over it.. I didn't bring a detail grinder with me.. so, I am now pretty much shot out of the saddle with the Governor till the next trip out..
So, on to the oil and filter change... filled the filter full of new oil before installing it..
put in a total of 5.5 gallons of shell Rotella straight 40 weight. check...
I saved a quart of the old oil sealed in a glass jar to have tested..
Spent a total of 8 hours working on it..... two trips to northern tool and napa included...
I do have a question .. Is the governor even necessary if I bring in a large compressor to pony into the onboard 120 volt compressor? Does the air circulate from the AC voltage compressor unchecked ?
or could I just cap off the return line from the governor to the wet tank and call it a day..
if I just say the hell with the governor for now.. just to get it aired up and get it home via tow truck.. or is this not how it works... sorry for being so thick.... :(
Thanks
Mark
If your are still going to use a tow truck you don't need to be doing any of this stuff. The tow truck will either air up the coach with His air, Or he is gong to cage the brakes and tow it or put it on a flatbed.You don't need to do anything but make the phone call. Running back and forth a hundred miles round trip as many times as you have It probably would have been cheaper to do that from the get go. ;)
If you coach is a Unihome (Foretravel chassis), you must have the air suspension inflated to tow it. The coach sits on the tires when the suspension is not inflated. You might be able to winch it onto a trailer, but towing without airing it up is a no- no even with the brakes caged.
I forgot about the suspension but any good tow company can deal with that issue using their air.
Even now with the Governor hanging half off now and lines unhooked ?
Looking at the air schematic for my 1990 bus, it looks like the aux compressor will air up the suspension (it does on mine). The suspension is aired up from the front and rear tanks and there are directional valves between the wet tank and the front and rear tanks. The engine driven compressor airs up the wet tank and is not directly connected to the from and rear tanks. Get the governor replaced and drive it home if the brakes work.
Too drive it anywhere, especially for someone new to motorhomes, you should have air pressure and available volume that cycles between about 85 and 110 psi. Brake applications will drop it considerably and you will need a good CFM compressor to keep it in operating range. I don't think the onboard 110V compressor is up to the task. What might be good for moving the coach to the back of a tow truck won't do the trick for driving down the road. Driving with lower air pressure is inviting disaster.
Pierce
So Pierce, are you thinking even though the governor is unhooked and hanging, it still can be towed? I am not talking about trailer towed.. just a standard pull tow..
As long as the air bags have pressure and tires are well clear of the top of the wheel well, a big tow truck can pull it. Best on the back of a large flat bed but a tow truck would probably OK for a short distance. Easy to damage the Fiberglas if operator is not careful. Still have the problem of removing the driveshaft or pulling the axles if the rear is on the ground. Might be less hassle and save money in the long run to have the whole thing on a flat bed. Lots of things can go wrong in a hurry if not really careful. Not to throw water but a new to RVs/big vehicle owner is the last person that should be directly involved in a tow.
Pierce
I don't know how a flat bed trailer would be able to unload the coach.. it has to be backed into a spot 90 degrees in proportion to the road.. approximately 12 feet wide... I am sure a standard rolling tow can back it in.. just don't understand what a flat bed can do... or the requirements involved.. perhaps i should call a local flat bed hauler just to pick his brain.
Could you hook up your new governor temporarily without removing the old one.?
Don't know if this will help but here is diagram of my air system.
Air Dryer By pass (Redux) (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=23373.msg182257#msg182257)
Thanks,
I thought about that, but it must be bolted directly to the compressor, as there is a gasket between them with air flow from or to the compressor directly from or to the Governor.
Grind the rest of the stuck bolt head off, remove the governor, then go rent or buy a stud extractor, soak the bolt threads with PB Blaster, tap the bolt with a hammer, soak it again, wait 15 minutes and extract it with the stud extractor.
What is this stud extractor you speak of.. ? Are you referring to an EZ out? Drilling a whole into the stud and then backing it out?
Titan Stud Puller — 3/8in. Drive, Model# 16023 | Socket Specialty Tools|... (http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200385363_200385363)
Not much room too work the bolt.. it's pretty close to a solid wall.. a ratchet and short socket just fits in... you wouldn't be able to back it all the way out with a socket..
I tried to use these from Northern Tool.. 25 bucks.. but just rolled sideways off the rounded bolt. Grip-Tite Super Socket Rounded Bolt Removers — 7-Pc. SAE Set, Model# 00111 |... (http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200402514_200402514)
Looks like your titan stud puller would work if I had the room..
It's 2:30PM, Hot and Humid in Houston.... time for a nap.
Ouch, If you can't get that tool on the head of the bolt it will have to come out some other way. Did you place the tool over the head of the bolt and DRIVE it on with a hammer or punch ? If you can drive it on and turn it to left it SHOULD grip and come out. Part of the trick will be to soak it well with PB Blaster or some such and use a hammer on end of it to jar it loose. Now that I look again I am confused, do you have a STUD or a bolt that wrung the head off ? If a STUD you will need a different type tool as someone else mentioned.
Tell you what, pick up the phone and give me a call at 770-595-3891 and we will discuss it, maybe we can figure it out. I am in GA probably an hour behind you.
Gary B
Hey Gary,
I did soak it with PC Blaster.. one of the bolts backed out fine.. one just rounded off..
There is no head now.... I sawed it off.. the rounded head was acting like it was fused to the governor.. with the first bolt backed out, you can now slightly spin the governor in place.. and the rounded off bolt head was turning with it.. which means the thread of that bolt is loose into the compressor.. so I sawed it off.. but couldn't pull the governor over the stud because of the burr.. This Tues or Wed when I return, I'll use a very small die grinder and remove the burr... hopefully it will then slide over the stud.. then I will have to cut the stud again from the backside of the governor, leaving as much stud as possible.. my thoughts are a good small vice grip then will allow me to back it out without trouble..
Thanks !! Mark
It sounds like the bolt is rusted to the governor and not the compressor.
yah.. or something.. I cant see any rust..
It would be nice to know exactly what bolt it is, so I don't have to waste another trip
if I cant find the correct size bolt in Conroe Texas.
A half inch wrench fits the hex head of the bolt
1/2 " head should be 5/16" bolt I believe, I suspect that it is coarse threaded.
http://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/bolts/us-bolt-head-size.aspx
Gary B
Your a Trooper Gary...
I'll buy 5 pairs of 5/16" coarse, hardened, bolts starting with .75" up to 1.75" past the width of the Governor,
assuming they are offered in 1/4" increments.. ( betting on between 1." and 1.50" past )
Since you were able to remove the left bolt from governor, it would be a great idea to match it up with 2 new bolts ? cheaper too.
Yes.. in a perfect world.. :)
The left bolt backed out, but cant be removed from governor because of the wall.. so likewise, when installing the new governor both bolts must be in Governor first before putting in place...
I did go by the hardware.. they sold bolts in 1/2" increment's after 1.75" so I ended up buying 3 pairs of bolts.... 3" ..... 3.5" .... and 4" and bought the 90 degree flare to pipe thread I cut off too...
I went by NAPA also.... a special that's ongoing, on the second Saturday only, of each month for the rest of the year.. from 7AM to 10AM, everything in the store that is a non sale item is 30% off.. also includes items you have to order from the store, as long a you prepay for it during those 3 hours... after 10AM it drops to 20% for the rest of the day..
I'm given ya'll pearls here..!!! :)
Mark
I am thinking this might be just a Texas thing...
Another thing I would try is take a propane blow torch with you and heat the area AROUND the frozen bolt pretty good and try and keep the flame away from the bolt. This may help and give a bit of expansion to free the threads. Of course you need to have removed the Govenor first to do this.
JohnH
If your governor is that close. You might have to pull the compressor off to get the governor off in order to get the bolt out. What a pain in the arse this has turned out to be for you!!
Agreed Stump,
What entails removing the compressor? I hope I don't have to resort
to that..!!!