I see there is a 120 volt standard plug (short 12" cord) in the battery area the previous owners had 110 volt cord plugged into when I bought the coach..
I am assuming it is being converted to 12 volts for the interior? because they had both house batteries unhooked and there were lights on in the interior..
I haven't even looked if there are 110 volt outlets inside..
My big question is.. I would think that I should be able to run the roof top AC's from shore power
220 volt correct ? but I haven't found any place to plug up a 220 volt lead .. except, there is a 220 volt plug laying loose (on a 12" short black cord) at the base of the generator.. but I am assuming that is from the generators output.?
I don't have an owners manual.. so sorry for the stupid questions... I don't want to plug up 220 to something and burn something up.
Anyone ?
Thanks
Mark
ps.. found floor safe, no combination
CAREFUL>>>>>>> There is no 220 Volt power in your FT. All power is 110. Don't look for a 220 outlet until you understand how your coach is wired. Do a search on this forum for 110 V power. Lots of info.
A DRYER PLUG AT A HOUSE CANNOT BE USED.........
Hang Loose and I ( and others ) will find some info for you so you can safely plug your coach in.
Start here
http://rveducation101.com/articles/basic_rv_electricity_savvy.pdf
RV Electrical Systems (http://www.rv-dreams.com/rv-electrical.html)
Gary B
Thanks Gary for that informative write up... ok..
I was thinking the roof top units were probably 220 volt.. my bad..
I still would think 220 volt would be required to run both AC's at the same time, one each on a different leg.... running both on a 110 volt, 10 gauge cord just sounds wrong
Here's a great resource to help understand RV electric
RV Electric (http://www.myrv.us/electric/)
You need a 50 amp shore power connection to run both A/C units, and a 30 amp connection to run 1 A/C. A standard 15-20 amp 110V "household" connection will only power the "light duty" items in your coach, like TV, small kitchen appliances, etc.
Very informative Michelle, thanks
I agree Cajk..
but I don't see that accepting connection ... unless it's the short 12" cord 220 volt plug laying in front of the generator..
Mark,
I don't know what you are looking at when you say "short 12" cord 220 volt plug". Like I've said before, photos are very helpful in describing items. Do you mean the 12" cord has a female socket on the end, or a male plug? Either way, what does it look like?
There are only 3 configurations of socket/plug that apply to RV service...they are shown in the line drawing below. 4-prong is 50 amp, 3-prong is 30 amp, and the last one is standard household service.
If the 12" cord you are looking at has any other configuration of socket or plug on the end, then I would be very cautious about trying to use it.
Look in the wet bay of your coach-- where the tanks are located. You should have a power receptacle in there for the coach power. It will look like a 220V plug, but if you check the shore power cable you will see that the coach plug is marked 125/250V, and it is being used at 120V 50 amp. The plug is dual rated, but it is not wired for 220V, at least not on my 90' model.
An RV 50 amp shore power cord has 3 straight and 1 round blade-- in the wet bay for your coach:
Outer straights are both 120 VAC
Center straight is neutral.
Center round is ground
To check a CG 50 amp outlet with a voltmeter (assuming you are safe working around AC):
Either outer straight to center straight or center round= 120 VAC
Center straight to center round= 0 VAC
Outer straight to outer straight= 240 VAC
So, while this IS 240 service, you have zero appliances running on anything but 120 VAC (i.e. each is fed by ONLY one hot). Same for most things in your brick and stick house-- most outlets, lighting, etc is 120, powered by one hot, one neutral and one ground.
If you only have 30 amp service at a CG outlet, the 30 male to 50 female adapter connects the SINGLE HOT in the 30 amp side to BOTH HOTS on the 50 amp side so everything will work. Only difference is that you now only have 30 amps total available instead of 50 on each hot= 100 amps available.
NEVER PLUG INTO WHAT LOOKS LIKE AN RV 30 AMP THAT IS WIRED FOR 240 VAC (such as welding machine). It will burn up thousands of dollars of equipment!
I think he said he had a plug in the generator compartment. . If it comes from the gen set.. it's a buddy plug. I, surprised it's a 50A, usually a 30. Further if it is a 50A, maybe it hooked up to Po house as emergency backup..
Did you ever get the thing home?
I'll take some pictures of the male 220 outlet on a short 12" cord at the generator..
When you say wet bay.. you mean the storage water tanks bay? I'll have to look. I never paid much attention to that bay.
Yes.. I got it towed in yesterday.. I did snap a few pictures.. but need to try and remember how to photo bucket them to share it's new parking spot at my property :)
No need to use PhotoBucket. You can upload directly to Foreforums. Just drag the files into the "Add Files" area below. Looking forward to your photos.
jor
I guess I'm blind.. I don't see any "add files" below :(
Try reading this thread:
Is there a sticky that explains the various ways of image posting? (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=23934.0)
Thanks, I finally figured it out :)
I'll snap a picture of the plug tomorrow if it ever stops raining here in houston
Mark....you should have a 25' or a 50' 50amp plug in cord for the coach. Ours is manually rolled up and stored in with the stater battery near the rear of the coach. Maybe your s is missing from what it sounds like.
Mark,
If the big power cord is missing, you can buy a twist lock adapter from 110V into your 50 amp coach and then at your leisure, find a used 220V cord on Craigslist or a wrecking yard. They are very expensive new but available for much less from dead RVs. You have to make sure they match up with the coach. Should be a lot of RV parts stores in your area to look at. With a HD 50 foot 110V extension cord, you can run one roof AC and some other appliances. I like the extension cords with a LED in the end so you can see if it has power.
We almost never take the big cord with us but you are based where AC is mandatory. Our 50 footer came from HF and is the yellow/black triple tap shown on: Search results for: 'extension cord' (http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=extension+cord)
Here is an eBay page showing a variety of adapters: 50 AMP TWIST LOCK PLUG ADAPTER TO 15 AMP 220 TO 110 VOLT POWER CORD RV 50A |... (http://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_nkw=50%20AMP%20TWIST%20LOCK%20PLUG%20ADAPTER%20TO%2015%20AMP%20220%20TO%20110%20VOLT%20POWER%20CORD%20RV%2050A&_itemId=301020984114)
Pierce
Is this what your 1' power cord looks like?
http://www.rvautoparts.com/product.asp?itemid=7561&gclid=CLbLsviE4sUCFQypaQodvZQAAw
Note the Hubbell 50amp connector at one end and a 110 on the other.
Use to power coach from a home circuit.
Elliott,
No, if you are replying to my post. Our adapter is just a different brand but the same as the one at Home Depot for about $26.
http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/400/5a/5a572de3-d293-47d9-85e3-0fd73b65f49c_400.jpg
The $8.97 RV plug they have advertised won't do the job as a plug with the proper spacing of the lugs, a straight in design and a locking ring are needed. Lots of cords for sale below. Several look the same with only the price different.
RV & Marine Cords - Extension Cords - The Home Depot (http://www.homedepot.com/b/Electrical-Extension-Cords-Surge-Protectors-Extension-Cords-RV-Marine-Cords/N-5yc1vZc4ny)
Pierce
The receptacle on my '93 U225 coach is in the forward bulkhead of the bay that has my tank dump valves. It is 3-pronged but there is a 4th connector on the lip of the connector that's on the cord. It looks like a 3-prong 240vac connection but is, in fact, a 4-connector 2-leg, 50amp RV connection.
On the other end of the cord is a standard 50-amp 4-prong male RV plug.
The system is two legs of 120vac providing 50-amps per leg (or 100 amps total). Nothing in your rig is 240vac! (Unless someone, at some time made a big change; a change that would make it impossible for them to hook up at most RV parks.)
Don't confuse these with dryer or welder outlets.
Craig
I still see nothing under my coach that is a 220 volt style plug up.. I am thinking about
chasing the main wire going to the breaker box at the foot of the queen bed.. I guess I could always
wire a new lead/leads directly into the breaker box itself
I'm pretty sure the loose plug at the generator is from it.. I'll start the generator when I get a chance and test the plug for power
Mark
The plug on a 93 225 was in the bay with the dump valves. Here's a couple of photos showing the front and back of the plug. Access the back of the plug from the adjoining compartment. On a 95 300 it's in the same bay.
jor
Here's a photo of the setup on a 95 without reels. Arrow points to plug.
jor
Mark open up the drivers side compartment in front of the drive tire. If yours is like mine there will be your 3 batteries.To the right of them is your sewer hookup and fresh water fill. Just up and to the left there should be a round female receptacle with a flip cover on it.this is where your power cord plugs in . mine is pointing down. The cord has a round plug on one end and it goes in and twists to lock.
Thanks Jor for all your pictures and everyone else contributing..
Mine looks nothing like your bay.. I must say, you have a sharp looking set up :)
Stump... you've described mine almost to a T ... no flip cover though.. there is a short loose 110 volt male ended cord "hardwired" laying there.. I'll have to look closer, but this is where they had a #14 cord running to it then, that powered the lights in the house... they had the house batteries disconnected..
They may have hard wired this small roughly 12" cord to it.. I'll look at it and snap a few pictures
I'm wondering when you plug yours up, is there a crossover or relay of some sort that quits drawing from the batteries?
It's pretty much a rule of thumb for me that I run a # 10 cord for 110 volt cords.. running power tools, or whatever
Thanks
Mark
Mark, for clarity and sanity sake please take a picture of ALL the things in each bay and post them so we can help and as everyone has said you DO NOT have 220v and DO NOT try to plug or rewire anything to do with 220v. The 220 comes (as was mentioned) from having 2 different feeds of 110v on each of the HOT legs in the cable connection. Each leg feeds part of the cicuits in the box NOT 240 serving them all. You should easily find the connection point for a RV park feed and I feel it will be the Twist type Hubble (marine style) variaty. Once you find it go buy a 50ft long new one so once you are ready to go you will have it. The air conditioners can be tested/run once you get the gen set going but all else will run fine on a 20 amp 110v regular 10 gauge extension cord.
Forget all the 240v stuff as you do not have anything that needs that kind of power.
JohnH
Thanks John
Forgive me for calling it a 220 plug.. I am knowledgeable on residential electrical and service panels,
I fully understand the concept of two different legs.. 110 volts each... I may be having a guest stay for a while and will offer her the GV to stay in as guest quarters.. so I am looking to run both ac units off shore power without using the generator. If it's not designed or setup to run two ac units from shore power, then I'll just have to figure something out.
I'll snap some pictures of my bays and service panel
Mark
You should be able to run everything off shore power. That is as long as you have at least a 40 amp circuit for the coach. If all you want to is run 2 AC's then all you would need is around 30A @ 240V. Everything in the coach is 110V On the AC's one is on one leg and the other is on the other leg. It is possible to run both AC's on a 20A @ 240V circuit but that might trip out if the battery charger load is increased or microwave is used at same time as AC.
Turbo.. wow tell me how you ran 2 AC units with 1 20a.. I'm faced with this all the time visiting family.. I even use an autoformer.. thanks in advance, send me a pm so we don't hijack the thread ^.^d
Mark,
These are for a newer coach but may help
Note that the air conditioner circuits are rated for 16 amps EACH
Thanks Turbo Jack, and thanks Brays for the diagrams.. Barry sent me some schematics. I'll have to look again,
but don't remember it having these.
fouroureye.. Don't be rude, please hijack my thread with info like that !!! :)
Mark,
As John suggested above, please take pictures and post of your bays, particularly the wet bay.
Then we can be of more help. Your coach WAS wired for 50 amp RV service from the factory. No idea what owners have done since.
For general info I have attached a chart of all plug/receptacle types used in the US. Look at the 50 amp section and you will see that IF THE CORD IS UNALTERED you cannot plug a 50 amp 250/125 volt RV cord into a 250 volt receptacle. Older RVs have the twist lock type plugs newer have the straight pin units.
There is also another option for confusion. Some enterprising (me) people have added a second 120V 15 amp line to plug into the matching receptacle on the power post. This goes to a change over switch so I can run the front A/C or a heater from it as well as everything else from the existing 30 amp service. When I have 50 amp I can not plug it in or if using it I have in effect 65 amps but not via the 50 amp cord. If you have a thin cord as well as a thick one this may be the case.
Keith
Excuse all the dirt.. Haven't had a chance to clean anything too much yet..
My Bad, the 220 volt that I was thinking laying loose at the generator is obviously only 110 volt..
I see with picture 009, the wire is marked 6-3, Thats pretty impressive, 6 gauge wire with ground :)
009 and 010, taped up yellow cord goes from 010 then up thru the floor, or so I thought.. I'll have to go recheck this..
There may be a plug laying, if I remember correctly in the box under the queen bed. I didn't get that picture yet.
Mark,
What is inside of the cap that is located just below the cable TV/phone box? In pics 11 & 13 That could be your electric hookup you are looking for.
Pamela & Mike
Mark,
I will get this started:
Start with picture 15. That is the ATS (Automatic Transfer Switch). As originally wired, it had two "IN's". One from the generator and one from the shore power cord/shore power cord connection.
As originally wired, the "OUT" is to the 120 VAC breaker box.
Ignore 11 and 13, they are for phone and coaxial connections.
8 and 17 scare me. Electronic equipment (i.e. source of sparks) should never be in the same compartment with batteries (i.e. Hydrogen as a by-product of charging).
9 and 10 are also scary. Certainly not the way/place for connections with 120 VAC.
Clearly, the strain reliefs for the ATS as well as that poor splice need to be eliminated and the rest of the 120 VAC wiring needs to be checked carefully. Certainly until the "coach side" of the ATS.
I have no idea.. I haven't touched anything yet..
8 is where the previous owner had a 14 gauge lead cord running for powering the interior lights.. also powers the dashboard radio
On the side of the ATS with two cables (one with splice): Originally, one went to the generator. The other to the shore power outlet.
Wolfe.. it only appears the line is spliced to the ATS line on the left side.. it actually is spliced into another piece of yellow cord ( or a repair of the same cord)
Are you saying none of the electronic equipment was originally installed in the battery bay ?
One to generator and one two shore power.. I will trace the two tomorrow..
I think this unit has had some significant changes to it since leaving the factory. You are going to busy for while getting this restored to a functioning level.
#8 looks like a 12 volt power supply or battery charger. The original sat ABOVE that plate on the 4 threaded posts - no real loss there as the original was a converter and not a battery charger.
The three batteries were originally in a fiberglass box that had an 1-1/2" ABS pipe venting to a hole in the rear bulkhead. It looks like only remnants of the old bottom half are left. Yes, originally the transfer switch and converter were install in this bay, but with enclosed batteries.
Main power connection to the coach is in #11 and #13 (as Pamela and Mike suggested). It has a hinged cover. It looks like the connector body is cracked in #13. It takes a twist lock style connector.
I believe the larger white cables (in #9 and #10) are the 12 volt power connections from the power supply and feeding the coaches 12 volts. They are both white because the red has faded over the years.
While the shore power cord inlet (at least from the factory) will be covered, it is not 11/13. You can clearly see in 11 the phone and coaxial connection.
@wolfe10
I think Mike and John are talking about the "downward facing" round cap on the bottom of the white plastic case shown in 11/13.
Chuck,
Yes, sorry, I was just looking at the rectangular one.
If you are having trouble comparing the Foretravel schematic to the owner modified wiring, go to Home Depot or HF and buy a inexpensive cable tracer/signal injector/tone generator. Here is an example from HF: Search results for: 'signal tracer' (http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=signal+tracer)
Several owners have used this to trace out the extra wiring loom from the back of the coach to the front by the driver's seat. I just used it to trace which coax went to the transponder antenna in an aircraft. You just turn it one, clip the red clip to the center conductor in a coax or to a wire and the other to ground. You then just turn on the receiver and listen for the tone when the little wand on the receiver gets near the wire. Starts making noise about a foot away and increases when you get closer to the "injected" wire. Ultra easy to use.
To put the icing on the cake, take the schematic to a copy shop and have it blown up (again, thanks Bill). Armed with several copies, use one as a working schematic and pencil in the changes you find and the new cable routes. Once you get it all figured out and everything is working, ink in the changes for a permanent copy and roll it up in a mailing tube to carry with you in the coach.
Pierce
Bingo !!
As Pamela and Mike suggested.. :)
This should be considered a 220 volt plug/connection, correct? The one I have been asking to find..
and should power both Air conditioners...
Thanks
I can't get down on my knees or back to see the plug connection.. I am in line for double hip replacement later this year. so I just held the camera upright, under the plug receptacle and snapped a few pictures... yeah.. its cracked a bit.. but on top of that, cant really tell what it is.. and it almost looks lke it may be bent ?? I'll have my worker here in the next day or so.. so he can get a better look with a flash light.
and I don't know what to say about the 110 to 12 volt transformer... it works.. but I'll need to figure out where it was originally supplied power from or just plan on running a separate power cord to it as is.. as long as it doesn't interfere with the rest..
Mark
I'm guessing, perhaps at some point there was a shore power cord connected to that receptacle, and it was "yanked" with enough force to cause damage to the socket. You definitely need it checked out by a qualified electrician before you use it.
I will have to be that Qualified electrician.. I'll replace the socket if it's damaged..
Yah.. I can see some yahoo now, yanking it or prying it back an forth to remove it... :o
The plug to the converter should be in the same compartmenr, on the ceiling behind the converter ^.^d
Or even pulling away from a campsite with the shore power cord still connected! You will be amazed at the things you see in some RV parks. I watched a guy pull out with his black tank dump hose dragging on the ground behind his trailer...
Thanks.. I'll check that out.. :)
Yikes !!!! I mean, Yuck !!!!
I have the same power connector on my coach.
This looks like the right connector: Amazon.com : Conntek CS6364 50-Amp 125/250-volt Generator Power Cord... (http://www.amazon.com/Conntek-CS6364-Generator-Connector-Generators/dp/B00DVE8XUQ/ref=pd_sim_sbs_86_10?ie=UTF8&refRID=09RAADZSS5EG2WQ4S3ZP)
The other end that connects to shore power: Amazon.com: Camco 55255 50 AMP PowerGrip Replacement Plug: Automotive (http://www.amazon.com/Camco-55255-PowerGrip-Replacement-Plug/dp/B000PGVZ30/ref=pd_sim_sbs_86_5?ie=UTF8&refRID=09RAADZSS5EG2WQ4S3ZP)
And then you will need an adapter to 30 amp: Amazon.com: Camco 55185 PowerGrip 30M/50F AMP 18" Dogbone Electrical Adapter... (http://www.amazon.com/Camco-55185-PowerGrip-Dogbone-Electrical/dp/B000BUQOGI/ref=sr_1_4?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1432993864&sr=1-4&keywords=RV+power+Adapter)
And then an adapter to go from 30 to 15 amp if that is all you have to plug in at home: Amazon.com: Camco 55223 15M/30F AMP PowerGrip Adapter: Automotive (http://www.amazon.com/Camco-55223-15M-PowerGrip-Adapter/dp/B00192JGA8/ref=sr_1_2?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1432994588&sr=1-2&keywords=RV+power+adapter)
So I guess there was no large, heavy power chord stored anywhere in your coach?
If not, you need to buy or put together a new one. The cable needs to be 6 gauge, 4 wire. Cheaper cable is made with rubber that is more plastic like and will get very stiff in cold climates. The better cable will be softer and easier to roll up. I sure would go through the whole coach an make sure its just not stowed away somewhere. It's unusual for it not to be left in the coach.
Connection to the coach...for a 50a service ? Can't tell from the photo the configuration of the prongs in the RV socket. But this is a guess.
Amazon.com: ParkPower 6353ELRV Power Inlet, White: Automotive (http://www.amazon.com/ParkPower-6353ELRV-Power-Inlet-White/dp/B000E3V9WQ/ref=pd_sim_200_5?ie=UTF8&refRID=1JQV753W8KPJD4E0ZA29)
That's the same plug on the 88.. The center post threw me for too.. The 88 connected directly to the outside wall.
If I were going to replace both the socket and purchase/build a 50 amp cord I would give serious consideration to the 'Smart Plug' that Barry and Cindy write about.
Escapees published Barry & Cindy's SmartPlug review (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=24432.msg191183#msg191183)
Re: Building you own cord.
In an earlier post to this thread I had offered up the schematics for my 295. They may or may not bear any resemblance to your wiring plant. My point is that they give Foretravel's design capacities for each of the circuits in the coach
and which leg of the of the 50 amp shoreline cable they draw from.
Somewhat of an aside, will become clear laterThe previous owner (Chief Engineer in Merchant Marine) of my big boat (44' motor cruiser) had balanced the circuit requirements for each leg of the 125/220 system.
He then went down (or up as the case may be) in wire size to construct a much more flexible shorepower cable than the yellow octopus.
We had no problems with it at all during our 6 years on the boat.
Back to topicLooking at the design loads on my coach I think I could use an 8 gauge rather than the specified 6 gauge 4 wire cable.
Some savings on wire and much more flexible.
Ampacity Charts (http://www.cerrowire.com/ampacity-charts)
Mark,
You've got to start using the right terminology or you are headed for serious grief. RVs, like so many things, have their own jargon and if you just toss in jargon from some other technology you run the risk of people misunderstanding you and leading you - with all good intentions - astray.
First of all, it's NOT considered a 220vac connection. Even though there *is* 220vac on a 50-amp circuit and even though it looks like a dryer or welding receptacle... it's really two 110vac circuits running 50-amps EACH. The correct terminology is "50 Amp RV" circuit.
and,
The 110 to 12volt device is a "converter" or a "converter/charger" (not a "transformer").
Some people/technicians/rv dealers will figure out what you're talking about but I wouldn't count on it. :)
Craig
Thanks Craig, so much to learn :o
Don't feel bad Mark. there are a number of us that come from electrical/HVAC/construction backgrounds that had to learn the terminology.......... but now we are ambi-jargonal!
Now if I could just figure out how to explain refrigeration tubing sizes to a plumber......... ;D ;D
TOM
50 to 30 then 30 amp dryer plug on other end two 110 amp lines basically and it works very well
Do not get confused between 3 prong 30a RV plug (30 amp 120 volts, 1 hot, 1 neutral, and 1 ground wire) to a 30 amp
3 wire dryer plug. (30 amps 240 volts 2 hots, 1 ground and neutral together in one wire) If you do not know what you are doing you can fry a lot of items in the RV
"Do not get confused between 3 prong 30a RV plug (30 amp 120 volts, 1 hot, 1 neutral, and 1 ground wire) to a 30 amp
3 wire dryer plug. (30 amps 240 volts 2 hots, 1 ground and neutral together in one wire) If you do not know what you are doing you can fry a lot of items in the RV"
Boy, that's the truth! Wasn't there a thread here recently about that happening to someone?
Not to nit-pick, but a 3 wire 240plug is just 2 hots and a ground. There is no current carrying neutral. However, the ground can ACT as a neutral--but that is not the design intent. Even though the ground and neutral may go to the same bus bar at some point, the neutral has to go back to the transformer and carries current during normal operation. The ground, is a safety and not meant to carry current during normal operation.
In the old 3 wire dryer plugs the ground was also used as a neutral since part of the working of a dryer are 110 v. The same goes with when 3 wire was allowed to power a cooktop and oven. The neutral and ground were both tied together at the appliance. I think in the 1993 National Electrical Code the change was made where 4 wires had to go to dryer, cooktop, and oven making a separate neutral and ground.
IMHO, I think they make all this electrical crap confusing just so "professional" electricians can charge exorbitant service fees. >:(
(No offense intended to any Forum members who make/made their living in that area of expertise)
No offense taken
On the exorbitant service fees, it depends on who you use. As with anything buyer beware. Some of our competitors charge $350 + per hr., just so happens they are the ones that spend a lot of money advertising on TV and Radio.
Correct. Dryer type 30 amps with no ground do NOT meet code and have not for more than 20 years. And, unless someone is knowledgeable, connecting to one will sure "let the smoke out" of a lot of RV appliances and devices.
Yes, with good knowledge and 4 wire dryer/stove wiring, 50, repeat 50, NOT 30 amp RV service can be wired.
So, curious to know what the companies charge that don't spend a lot of money advertising on TV and the radio...
I you have to go to the expense of buying and installing a new power inlet assembly and complete power cord, then it might cost relatively little more to go with a power reel assembly such as can be seen at Amazon.com: Shoreline Reels CC50D01R-SR 50-Amp Power Cord Reel: Automotive (http://www.amazon.com/Shoreline-Reels-CC50D01R-SR-50-Amp-Power/dp/B0059ACNX8/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1433355055&sr=8-4&keywords=50+amp+power+cord+reel) They are available in different styles from various vendors, and I don't know who currently has the best price on them. We plan to upgrade at some point just for the convenience.