I just bought a TOAD for the Foretravel to drag around. I chose a Jeep Commander Limited, 4X4, Hemi.
Its no light weight, so I plan on a 10,000# rated tow bar.
I have researched on this forum, members comments on tow bars and based on comments I'm leaning toward the Blue Ox Product line.
Looking through Craigslist I have found a few AVENTA II #7335 tow bars at reasonable prices.
I read that Blue Ox will rebuild the bars for $25 at events they attend, or I could order the kit and replace the parts myself.
When inspecting a used bar what should I be looking at besides cosmetics or parts that I can easily and inexpensively replace?
What other options or manufacturers in a bar might I look at?
How about brake systems;
What works?
What should I avoid?
The Jeep has electrically adjustable pedals that tie into the automatic seat, mirror preferences, radio choices.
This bothers me when I look at the brake systems that attach to the brake pedal.
How have you dealt with this option on your TOAD if you choose a system that ties into the brake pedal?
It seems to me that if you set up the brake actuator then the pedals are accidentally moved without your knowledge the braking would be out of adjustment.
Thanks for your advice.
I would look no further than a Blue Ox bar and baseplate.
Yes they have a crew that will come to your coach and do an "inspection" for around $25.00. That is just a cleaning and evaluation of your bar. Any parts or labor to install replacement parts is extra. If you use this service try to find out who, the factory or an independent dealer is providing the service and contact them prior to the event to get a time slot as those time slots fill VERY quickly.
Turning each tube (the part that attaches to the baseplate) is the most important inspection one can do. Simply turn each tube and look to see if it has a bow in it. If it does, that indicates the someone backed up the TOAD and that will tweak or even bend the tube. Replacement tubes are expensive and in my opinion not worth the purchase of a used unit and having to replace new tubes. All other wear parts i.e. Locking pins, rubber boots etc. are not expensive. David
I have a blue of system also I bought the tow bar used I have had no problem with the tow bar at but I am towing 2000 lbs. I have a M&G brake system I would stay away from the electrical systems, too fussy for me. The M&G system has an air cylinder between the brake booster and the master cylinder. Elegant engineering and design you can check their website to see if it is compatable with your Jeep
Agree Blue Ox and M&G Braking system. Got the brake away system also. Make sure any used equipment you purchase is in good working order. Having it inspected by a Blue Ox dealer or factory rep is a good idea. At the larger rallys I have been to they inspect your blue ox unit for the $25.00 range. They even gave me a black cover free. Easy hook-up. So far never any issues. DAN
For towing our Wrangler we use a Roadmaster Stowmaster tow bar that I bought used. It came with base plates for a Honda Civic which were easily modified to work on the Jeep.
For braking we use the ReadyBrake receiver brake. You can use it with a ball type tow bar or a receiver tow bar. We have the brakeaway connections too which are required in many states.
This braking system is simple, easy to install and adjust. No modifications to the coach, a simple cable to add to the Jeep. If you move your pedals for each driver then set the brakes for the pedals as close to the seat as they go. If you find a common spot for the pedals and don't adjust them then set the brakes for that spot.
Works for us and many others.
Supplemental Brake Systems - NSA RV Products (http://www.readybrake.com/store/c3/Supplemental_Braking_Systems.html)
Roger
WOW, Roger! we have the Readybrake system on our Vue. I bought it two years ago right from Readybrake for $423, which included shipping. Really like the simplicity of the system, but was surprised at the $500 price tag plus the hookup package.
Only thing I did notice different with the Readybreak from towing our Geo Tracker (with no brake) was that at times it felt like the "tail was wagging the dog". Longer distance to the pivot ball, maybe. Or maybe having the heavier Saturn Vue and the different Blue Ox Aventa tow bar. Also, our coach is only 22,500#.
Great brake system, simple to install and hookup, decent price, relatively easy to adjust the cable, and totally independent of the electrical wiring system. I only had to adjust once because of the difference in angle between the two vehicles when coming down a steep driveway onto the public road.
One thing the Readybrake did that I didn't think of was that when the towed brake pedal is pulled down to activate, the towed brake lights (including the third lite) come on along with the wired lights I installed. Talk about redundancy!! LOTS OF LIGHT BACK THERE THEN!!
I got the breakaway setup and the dash indicator light kit free with the ReadyBrake. It was about $450 as I recall. The tow bar was $250 used. My labor is free. All in for about $750. Much less than any other option. And I can pull the receiver part off the coach and hook it up to anything else and tow the Jeep and have functional brakes on the Jeep. Lots of ways to do this towing thing. Do what works for you. I can tell towing the Jeep when the brakes are functioning. They do help. I tried it without hooking then up to see.
Redid the towing light connections to a much more robust set up. One female on the coach and one female on the jeep with a HD male double ended cable between them. Much more durable and reliable.
Got the coach out yesterday for a 30 mile warmup run. Ran the gen and AH too. I can sure tell when there is no tow, get up and go! Lots of smiles! Roger
Lon,
Just happened upon this today. Don't know if it helps. He is in the Chicago area like you and I.
Keith
BLUE OX Patiot Braking System/Tow hitch with acces. (http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/index.php/topic,84341.0.html?PHPSESSID=5fe71bfb5d551667c2cd3fcc98e01003)
We use a Brakemaster Falcon tow bar and an M&G system on our Wrangler. We had an Inivisibrake - the M&G system is much simpler and almost fool proof. M&G installed at their shop in Athens, TX.
Thanks for all the ideas and advice.
My 95 U320 has a Jake engine break,
Would the Jake engine breaking (it can be very aggressive with the M11 engine) adversely effect the operating principal of the ReadyBrake system?
I can imagine the engine braking going down hill or at highway speeds activating the ReadyBrake with the motor home brakes not activated. The little Jeeps breaks are no match for the Foretravels weight.
I too have the M&G system and love it. I think it is the way to go.
BUT!!!
M&G says ( TOW BARS - BRAKE SYSTEMS (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=24958.new;topicseen#quickreply))
they aren't able to use them on 2010-2014 Commanders.
My guess is not on 2015s either.
Give them a call..
...
JEEP Years Part#
CHEROKEE NO 2014 95-01 200 1
GRAND CHEROKEE 93-94 NO
GRAND CHEROKEE 95-98 200
GRAND CHEROKEE 99-04 100
GRAND CHEROKEE NO 2011-14 05-10 106
GRAND CHEROKEE DIESEL 2008-10 106
COMMANDER NO 2011-14 05-10 106
LIBERTY gas or diesel 2002- 07 102
LIBERTY 08-14 602
WRANGLER/SAHARA/RUBICON 95-06 200
WRANGLER/RUBICON/SAHARA 07-15 602
...
Lon, the ReadyBrake activates the brakes on the tow vehicle whenever the tow is pushing on the tow bar. This makes the lever on the top of the ready brake raise up and move forward pulling the cable connected to the brake pedal which pulls the brake pedal down. When you apply the coach brakes or engage your engine brake or the retarder the coach will start to slow down, the tow starts to push the tow br, the brakes on the tow are activated until they are going the sme speed and the the tow a bit less. The push goes away and the brakes on the tow are released. A spring/shock absorber in the tow bar helps smooth out this action and releases the tow brakes when there is no push but no pull either.
The harder the tow pushes on the coach the more braking is applied.
These come with an indicator LED light that goes anywhere on the dash. The light comes on when the braking action is engaged. If you are driving down hill for example and downshift to slow down as the coach starts to slow down even with no coach brakes applied the tow vehicle brakes will be applied until they are going the same speed.
Simple, reliable, easy to install, easy to adjust, no coach mods, no tow mods, nothing to put in or take out of the tow. Just what I wanted.
Roger
I found MG required cutting the firewall on my Jeep so I put on an Airforce one.
I have Blue Ox and Airforce One. Love them both, especially the Airforce One braking system. I installed both systems myself; quite a job. I tow a Chevrolet HHR automatic; don't even know its back there.
Gary
Roger, does that mean when you pull back your retarder on a long hill the tow car is braking all the way down hill? It sounds that it might be and is the position adjustable so it would only come on with real braking?
(Trimmed entire post quote - Michelle)
Hi John,
Yes it does. When you are coming down a grade for example, and you slow the coach down by down shifting, applying the brakes or applying the retarder, your toad is going slightly faster than the coach and pushing it. This pushing action slides the inner and outer parts of the ReadyBrake together (against the built in spring/shock absorber) and that relative movement moves the top lever which pulls on the cable which pulls the brake pedal towards the floor. As the speeds equalize the brakes are applied less because the push is less. When the speeds are the same, no push, no brakes.
The dash light shows when the brakes are being applied. I don't think this is like riding the toad brakes all the way down the hill since the coach and whatever braking it is doing includes the toad. The toad brakes are applied in addition.
If you come to a stop in a down slope the toad will still be pushing against the coach and the toad brakes will be on until you start up, just as if you were driving the toad by itself.
In systems that are linked just to the coach's brakes (air supply) the brakes on the tow may not be applied when just using the retarder or downshifting. Someone who has one of these can answer that.
The ReadyBrake is proportional to the braking required, works no matter how the coach is being slowed, it is mechanical, no mods to the coach required, simple to install and hook up for towing and reliable.
It meets my requirements. I had a home made sort of thing that worked much the same way on my 1947 Willys more than 40 years ago. Back then everything was home made.
Hope that helps understand how it works. Roger
It sounds like the ReadyBreak system is similar in concept to the "surge" disk brakes on our Kar Kaddy SS tow dolly. In my experience, they do work great! The harder the coach stops, the harder the tow dolly brakes...the operation is completely transparent to the driver. Plus, there is one less connection to make between coach and towd.
Another advantage--if your tow lights are separate from the towed vehicle--is that when the towed brakes are applied the towed vehicle brake lights also come on. Much better braking light warning as it really lights up the towed.
All of these work, however M&G does not require penetrating the car firewall all others do
Lon,
Did you get your Commander set up for towing? I have the same Jeep and was curious what brake system you decided on, how it worked out and how it tows.
Thanks.
One hole 3/8" dia directly behind the brake pedal, for the Readybrake cable housing and the steel cable that is clamped onto the brake pedal. Then route the cable & housing around the hot spots of the engine and any moving parts, up to a center point, preferably directly in the midpoint of the front of the vehicle & between the tow bar mounts.
The Readybrake actuates when 20# of "push" are applied by your towed vehicle. Once the speeds are equalized the braking actuator no longer actuates your towed vehicle brakes.
I just cut mine as required, unless you knew where to look you can't see it.
We have a 2014 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited. No cutting of the fire wall. No cable attached to the brake. The towed vehicle brake is only applied when I press on my brake pedal. Is connected to the Air on the coach - guaranteed for life. Had an Invisibrake and it failed but that's another story. ;D
We have a Roadmaster and the Air Force 1 on our 2012 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited. the Air Force 1 saved us when our receiver hitch lock broke and the tow bar came out of the receiver on an upgrade. As we began the downgrade, Jeff saw the jeep in the side mirror!! He gently applied the brakes, stopped the coach, and then gently let off on the brake until the Jeep came to rest on the back bumper of the coach. Perfect! We had to replace the tow bar, of course, but there was no damage to either vehicle. The Air Force 1 is worth every dime!
The only problem with M&G is the the new cars are so tight under the hood that they have too cut things out to make their unit fit. Part of my brake manifold and lines were wire tied to the body. This was a on 2010 Jeep Rubicon Unlimited. I bought the parts that had been cut up and returned the unit. Installed a NSA Ready Brake and now have Air Force One. Hate to say anything bad about M & G but I do not feel the installation was safe.
Its still a work in progress.
I bought a Blue Ox tow bar (10,000# cap). and intend to buy the Blue Ox base plate # BX1125.
I was researching the brake system and after talking to John Duld decided on the M&G system. I contacted M&G and was told that it was NOT a easy install. I looked at a video and saw the fuse boxes (2) need to be relocated forward to give clearance for the extended brake chamber. The master cylinder then needs to be moved forward and the brake lines running to it need to be extended. The brake system then needs to be bleed. Its the system I would prefer but I'm reluctant to alter the Jeeps brakes. I would actually feel more confident of a install if I did it myself. I don't have confidence in a local shop doing this modification. I don't like to play around with a braking system with a shop that my cut corners. Something I may not realize till it fails!
I'm now leaning to the ReadyBrake system. but open to checking out the Air Force 1.
I read many good reviews of the ReadyBrake from members here so I know that it would probably work fine with the JAKE brake and Foretravel.
With a secondary system like this I like the K.I.S.S. philosophy rather than something that is over complicated and leaves more to go wrong or try's to do too much.
Let me know how your efforts pan out.
BTW!
Did you get a recall notice for the software update on the Commander?
It seems the last recall for this did more damage than good( Unable to put Jeep into Neutral for a tow) I'm waiting to see how others find the software update before I take mine in.
Jeep is no good if it can't be flat towed!
I did not let them do the upgrade on my Grand Cherokee of that very reason. How much does the commander weigh? I never put a brake on my wrangler and never needed one. It was 3500 pounds. I have one on my grand cherokee and it is much heavier at over 5K. If it is not much over 4K I would not bother with a braking system. I know that is sacrilegious to some but FT designed our couches to pull our lighter weight tow cars without them. I felt the bigger car behind me so I put it on but I never felt the Jeep. I did do a test once and borrowed a jeep from a friend who had a pendulum system in his. I was in a lot so I went up to 20 MPH and stood on the brake both with it working and with it not connected and there was really no difference in stopping. The fact was that the none connected stop was actually a foot shorter. It is not scientific and there are variables and the idea that you can hit the brake at exactly the same point, but I was close with when I put it on. I have not done it with the grand but I do think that the extra weight would be noticeable but the fact was when I was pulling the Jeep, I could have put the jeep inside the coach and still not been over the weight limits but I would be over the CCC on the coach with the grand by a bit over 1000 pounds. If I was still under I would not have bothered with the Grand Cherokee brakes. You need to weigh both and decide for yourself.
Also my first choice, but after being told the same thing, decided to explore options.
I did get the notice, but have not acted on it. Thanks so much for the heads up!
Commander weighs in at about 5,100 lbs, so braking system is likely prudent.
Yes, that is only a couple hundred less then my Grand so I would put one on. I have liked my Air Force one and it has worked well since day one.
If you have to make a quick stop because some "Jerk" pulled out in front of you :'( you will kiss your braking system :) Only needed once in 4 years but worth every penny. Now have dash camera so if this happens I can show what actually happened. I am not sure why drivers think you can stop on a dime. Every trip now someone is in a hurry. I think I am getting older. ^.^d
Dan, I think the tag axle gives me extra braking and I could pick up the whole jeep and put inside. I do not think that on my coach the brake will not make a huge difference in stopping power if I had the wrangler. I know you can argue that brakes all help but the coach brakes are so much stronger and the retarder added to it will make the coach stop much faster. Most other builders do not have the retarder so they only have coach brakes. I did notice a difference once I broke 42000 pounds though and added my tow brake right away. I have lots of miles over which to judge it and I will agree on the heavier towed vehicles, you should have a brake. Also if you have a lighter coach you should have a brake. I remember that when I got my first FT they said as long as the Tow is less the 10 percent of the coaches weight they designed the coach to stop towing the car.
Here is a map with state to state color coded requirements. We are just under 3K with our RAV4 so don't usually hook up our toad brakes but really should here in California.
State and Province Towing Laws - NSA RV Products (http://www.readybrake.com/state-towing-laws.html)
Pierce
It would probably be best practice to contact the manufacturer and discuss the install with them - vehicle specific. I would guess based on the car, installs will differ. Again on our 2014 Jeep Wrangler the M&G fit right in. No cutting - no holes through the fire wall and no cable attached to the brake pedal. ;D
This has been beat to death before but the charts from the companies that sell tow products always show the same thing. In this case I know VA requires a performance braking standard but this chart does not have it. Also, most states talk about tow vehicles but also have in their code a section that deals with towing a item that can move on its own power or had the ability to move that way. The fact is that it is not for RVs but Tow Trucks. Big trucks have to have air hooked up to tow them but when was the last time a tow truck put on a brake to tow your car. They did not and do not. They have to meet a performance requirement and that is one of the reasons they have different sized wreckers. You tow a Pickup they will send a bigger one then when you are towing a Honda Civic. That said, my previous comments about heavier towed cars and trucks and foretravel stands. I put on a brake on my jeep because, even though I would meet the standard, with the Jeep there was a difference in stopping. I had no difference with a brake equipped Wrangler vs none with my coach. You would think there would be but the braking on the Foretravel so overwhelmed the brakes on the Wrangler it did not make a difference in the test. I am sure if it was a super scientific test, it might have shaved an inch off maybe but I did not stop any sooner or faster or cover any more ground.
My towed is well over 1500 pounds, and I tow it in California. Although I know my Fortravel with 4000 pound towed would stop better than most SOBs solo, I don't want to be out of legal compliance. I use my SMI Air Force One every time. And I have experienced panic stops, very happy to have had the AF1 working.
I will start a separate post regarding the Jeep recall.
The arguments about accessory braking systems reminds me of the values for "normal" serum cholesterol levels that are derived from research sponsored by the drug companies that manufacture and sell cholesterol lowering drugs. Tends to create a certain amount of cynicism, doesn't it?
No matter what the laws say, no matter if brakes on your toad help a little or a lot at 20 mph or 60 mph, in a panic stop or a gentle stop you would be better off with a toad braking system of any type than not. If you have a braking system on your toad that is hooked up you should be good everywhere. And don't forget about break away brakes. These are widely required as well.
Our ready brake system is so simple. One hole through the firewall for the cable was the only modification to our Wragler. Adjustable, proportional, works with the coach brakes and/or the retarder, no modifications to the coach and it makes the jeep brake lights come on if it is braking even if the coach is not (like down hill,with the coach in a lower gear). Hooking it up takes seconds, a short cable with a snap ring at each end.
I looked at many. This appealed to me because of the easy install and hookup, easy to transfer to a different car or coach or any other towing vehicle and because it is simple.
Look at all of the options. Buy what you like.
Roger
When people talk about the "law" in reference to supplemental brakes they are talking about legal issues.
There is another, bigger law that we sometimes forget until we get into trouble. That law is physics-even if you have a small toad at 1.5 tons ( 3000 lbs) it will take longer to stop the whole rig without brakes on the toad because physics says there is an additional 3000 lbs to stop.
Legal issues are one thing, physics is another. I have always used supplemental brakes since I started RVing and now I love my Air Force 1.
Find the system you like and will use. Then enjoy the journey.
Roger, Does the Readybreak break away kit require a second hole in the firewall and a second cable to the brake pedal?
Keep up the replies. This is a needed subject for me. Will be towing a 2011 Buick Enclave.
Larry
Break away ready brake add a second cable. I used a second hole right next to the first one. The cable goes through and is all sealed up with silicon. This cable should never be pulled unless there is a big problem. Connects to the brake pedal with the same clamp as the regular brake pedal.
There is no reason that both cables could not go through the same hole.
Easy to hook up. Roger