Title: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: jtm2014 on June 05, 2015, 09:01:46 am
Post by: jtm2014 on June 05, 2015, 09:01:46 am
When I added the third valve, I redid the plumbing from the gray & black valves out. This allowed me to keep
the third valve close to the wall.
I can leave my hose attached and close the bay door, but my 38' may be different from the longer ones.
Jim
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: FormerU320Family on June 05, 2015, 09:06:10 am
Post by: FormerU320Family on June 05, 2015, 09:06:10 am
When I added the third valve, I redid the plumbing from the gray & black valves out. This allowed me to keep
the third valve close to the wall.
I can leave my hose attached and close the bay door, but my 38' may be different from the longer ones.
Jim
Richard & Susan
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: Michelle on June 05, 2015, 09:22:48 am
Post by: Michelle on June 05, 2015, 09:22:48 am
When I added the third valve, I redid the plumbing from the gray & black valves out. This allowed me to keep
the third valve close to the wall.
I can leave my hose attached and close the bay door
Great to see the photos!
I agree - that's the first I can recall on a 2003. Jim - did you happen to take any "behind the wall" photos during the retrofit to show how you modified the plumbing?
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: jtm2014 on June 05, 2015, 09:31:33 am
Post by: jtm2014 on June 05, 2015, 09:31:33 am
No sorry on the photos, I was in a campground when I was doing the work and just wanted to get it done.
But, if you look in Reply #21 from Steve, picture #2-(bolts removed)- I replaced all that piping so that I could get
rid of that white adapter you see in the photo.
That allowed me to get the third valve plumbed in closer to the wall.
Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: krush on June 05, 2015, 09:41:24 am
Post by: krush on June 05, 2015, 09:41:24 am
If you have the space, put in a PVC ball valve. They seem to be more robust.
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: TulsaTrent on June 05, 2015, 01:55:26 pm
Post by: TulsaTrent on June 05, 2015, 01:55:26 pm
the 3-part SS setup sounds awesome ^.^d .
I am pretty sure that Don (Acousticart) did an impressive stainless steel panel, but I do not remember the details.
Of course everything he does is impressive!
Trent
Edit: Found this picture, which I think is his:
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on June 07, 2015, 12:11:10 pm
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on June 07, 2015, 12:11:10 pm
Third Waste Valve, 2001, U320, 36' single slide.
Don's work is superb. An inspiration to us all.
This task, replace the interior waste valves and add a third valve. Add a direct fresh water fill.
The extra structure in my 2001 36' with one slide changes the arrangement of the parts compared to coaches without slides and other models and years. The original setup had a single fiberglass panel to which all of the parts mounted plus a top piece. The 3" waste drain pipe comes through at the bottom, the gray and black valve handles are mounted in this panel and the service faucet is also mounted in this panel. And there is a 110v outlet, a phone jack and the cable input connection. The lower section of this bay has a black rubber liner that come up about 5" on the sides and the fiberglass panel.
Disassembly
Turn off the water to the service faucet and drain as much water out as possible. Disassembly requires peeling the glued-on rubber liner from the fiberglass panel, removing a dozen or so screws and then trying to manipulate the panel with the valve handles and PEX lines to the faucet still attached. The PEX lines need to be disconnected as well as the cable center wires from each valve and the cable guide from the valve cable mount. The 110v outlet has to be removed as well as the cable/phone connection. The faucet can be removed from the panel from the outside but the rest of the faucet and the water connections are attached to the panel. mark which cable goes to which valve.
This was not easy, sitting on the ground, bad knees and hips bent like pretzels, arms through impossibly narrow openings doing things you cannot see. It took a while but I got it done. All I could think of was trying to put it back together and then trying to service any of this stuff in the future.
Replacing the main waste valves.
I carefully located where the new third valve was going to go on the waste exit pipe. I marked the location so that when the third valve was installed and a 45° fitting attached the drain hose could be connected and the door closed.
The gray and black tanks were emptied, flushed and emptied again and the coach tipped toward the curb side. Each valve has four bolts that go through the flanges on each side of the valve body and the valve body. They also go through the two halves of the valve cable attachment. (These bolts are a bit longer.) There are two bolts and nuts at the top of the valve cable attachment. Once all of these bolts are off the "h" shaped outer drain pipe assembly can be removed. Clean the flanges carefully. I cut the outlet pipe to the correct length.
Use plumber's silicone grease on the four cleaned flange faces, one rubber gasket goes on each flange, wipe some silicone grease around the face of each side of the valve blade. Carefully reassemble the valve bodies, cable attachment and the outer "h" section and tighten the bolts. Check the operation of the valves as you go. Some long socket wrench extensions and a universal joint made this easier. Once the cables are ready to go back in the outer cable sleeve fits into the top of the cable attachment and the wire goes into the valve handle. A set screw makes the connection firm. Save the allen wrench.
I wanted to keep the rubber liner, it seems to help keep things tidy. And I wanted this to be easier to reassemble and service if needed in the future. So I sketched up a three piece solution and went to see my neighborhood sheet metal guy. "No problem", he said.
Reassembly
The Bottom Section (14 ga stainless steel) has the rubber liner and the valve handles attached. With this part installed, the cables are easy to attach to the black and gray tank main valves. I added a few gallons of water to each waste tank, leveled the coach and did a paper towel under each valve for a couple hours drip test. Dry towels.
The Middle Section (14 ga stainless steel) has the 110v outlet and the cable/telephone connection and the connections for the hot and cold PEX lines. This was pretty easy to install. The PEX connections are hand tightened (plus a half turn with a wrench). The electrical outlet is crimped on to the Romex cable and feeds through the hole and is attached with two screws from the front. The phone/cable also feeds through the hole and attaches from the front. Once that was fixed in place I reinstalled the outside part of the service faucet (use silicon grease on the rubber washers). I opened the manifold valves to the faucet, bled out air and ran water through the lines. I left the pump on and did another paper towel under each set of connections behind the panel for a couple hours drip test. Dry towels.
We talked for a while about no faucet, maybe just a set of valves and a spray hose. Lots of appeal there but we use the faucet frequently for some warm soapy water to remove bugs from the front of the coach before they petrify. There are bugs up north here that approach the size of small birds and seem to be made up of mostly green and yellow goo. So we kept the faucet. I repurposed a 50' 3/8" air line with hose fittings on each end as a service hose. Very compact on an extension cord reel. Easy to get all around the coach as needed.
Then I fit in the Upper Section (also 14 ga stainless steel) and finished attaching it. A bit of silicon seal went here and there. The light was attached to the top panel. I didn't even know there was one there until I started taking things apart. I moved it to the side wall and used an LED bulb.
I doesn't look all that different from the original but it is much more serviceable and the third valve will work well.
And I got the direct fresh water fill installed as well.
I knew the big doors on my barn would come in handy.
Parts List
Inside Valve, cable actuated (2)
Amazon.com: Valterra T40BH Valve: Automotive (http://www.amazon.com/Valterra-T40BH-Valve/dp/B00PHSB2D4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&tag=foreforums-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957)
Outside Valve with handle (1)
Amazon.com: Valterra T1003VPM Bladex 3" Waste Valve Body with Metal Handle:... (http://amazon.com/gp/product/B000BGK22E?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage)
Slip Flange (1)
Amazon.com: Valterra T1005 3" Slip Hub Flange: Automotive (http://amazon.com/gp/product/B0006MRR9O?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage)
Flange with Adapter Lugs (1)
Amazon.com: Valterra T1009 3" Bayonet Flange: Automotive (http://amazon.com/gp/product/B0006MRRHQ?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage)
Termination Cap (1)
Amazon.com: Valterra Products, Inc. T1020 3" Black Termination Cap with... (http://amazon.com/gp/product/B0006N5RW2?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage)
90 degree Adapter (1)
Amazon.com: Valterra T1023 90° Clearview Adapter: Automotive (http://amazon.com/gp/product/B0006MRQRM?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage)
45 Degree Adapter (1)
Amazon.com: Valterra T1026-1 45° Clearview Adapter with 3" Bay Lug: Automotive (http://amazon.com/gp/product/B000NCS7GE?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage)
A New Two Part 20' Hose (1)
Amazon.com: Valterra D04-0275 20 Feet Dominator Sewer Hose Kit: Automotive (http://amazon.com/gp/product/B00BDEPJ1W?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage)
Hose End Caps (2)
Amazon.com: Valterra T1020-3VP Drip Cap Set: Automotive (http://amazon.com/gp/product/B0030453CI?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage)
Direct Water Fill (1)
Amazon.com: Valterra A01-0176LFVP White Lead-Free Metal Recessed Water... (http://amazon.com/gp/product/B005947ZR8?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage)
Photos
I hope I did this right, photo links to an album.
Well that didn't work. Back to third grade for me.
Don's work is superb. An inspiration to us all.
This task, replace the interior waste valves and add a third valve. Add a direct fresh water fill.
The extra structure in my 2001 36' with one slide changes the arrangement of the parts compared to coaches without slides and other models and years. The original setup had a single fiberglass panel to which all of the parts mounted plus a top piece. The 3" waste drain pipe comes through at the bottom, the gray and black valve handles are mounted in this panel and the service faucet is also mounted in this panel. And there is a 110v outlet, a phone jack and the cable input connection. The lower section of this bay has a black rubber liner that come up about 5" on the sides and the fiberglass panel.
Disassembly
Turn off the water to the service faucet and drain as much water out as possible. Disassembly requires peeling the glued-on rubber liner from the fiberglass panel, removing a dozen or so screws and then trying to manipulate the panel with the valve handles and PEX lines to the faucet still attached. The PEX lines need to be disconnected as well as the cable center wires from each valve and the cable guide from the valve cable mount. The 110v outlet has to be removed as well as the cable/phone connection. The faucet can be removed from the panel from the outside but the rest of the faucet and the water connections are attached to the panel. mark which cable goes to which valve.
This was not easy, sitting on the ground, bad knees and hips bent like pretzels, arms through impossibly narrow openings doing things you cannot see. It took a while but I got it done. All I could think of was trying to put it back together and then trying to service any of this stuff in the future.
Replacing the main waste valves.
I carefully located where the new third valve was going to go on the waste exit pipe. I marked the location so that when the third valve was installed and a 45° fitting attached the drain hose could be connected and the door closed.
The gray and black tanks were emptied, flushed and emptied again and the coach tipped toward the curb side. Each valve has four bolts that go through the flanges on each side of the valve body and the valve body. They also go through the two halves of the valve cable attachment. (These bolts are a bit longer.) There are two bolts and nuts at the top of the valve cable attachment. Once all of these bolts are off the "h" shaped outer drain pipe assembly can be removed. Clean the flanges carefully. I cut the outlet pipe to the correct length.
Use plumber's silicone grease on the four cleaned flange faces, one rubber gasket goes on each flange, wipe some silicone grease around the face of each side of the valve blade. Carefully reassemble the valve bodies, cable attachment and the outer "h" section and tighten the bolts. Check the operation of the valves as you go. Some long socket wrench extensions and a universal joint made this easier. Once the cables are ready to go back in the outer cable sleeve fits into the top of the cable attachment and the wire goes into the valve handle. A set screw makes the connection firm. Save the allen wrench.
I wanted to keep the rubber liner, it seems to help keep things tidy. And I wanted this to be easier to reassemble and service if needed in the future. So I sketched up a three piece solution and went to see my neighborhood sheet metal guy. "No problem", he said.
Reassembly
The Bottom Section (14 ga stainless steel) has the rubber liner and the valve handles attached. With this part installed, the cables are easy to attach to the black and gray tank main valves. I added a few gallons of water to each waste tank, leveled the coach and did a paper towel under each valve for a couple hours drip test. Dry towels.
The Middle Section (14 ga stainless steel) has the 110v outlet and the cable/telephone connection and the connections for the hot and cold PEX lines. This was pretty easy to install. The PEX connections are hand tightened (plus a half turn with a wrench). The electrical outlet is crimped on to the Romex cable and feeds through the hole and is attached with two screws from the front. The phone/cable also feeds through the hole and attaches from the front. Once that was fixed in place I reinstalled the outside part of the service faucet (use silicon grease on the rubber washers). I opened the manifold valves to the faucet, bled out air and ran water through the lines. I left the pump on and did another paper towel under each set of connections behind the panel for a couple hours drip test. Dry towels.
We talked for a while about no faucet, maybe just a set of valves and a spray hose. Lots of appeal there but we use the faucet frequently for some warm soapy water to remove bugs from the front of the coach before they petrify. There are bugs up north here that approach the size of small birds and seem to be made up of mostly green and yellow goo. So we kept the faucet. I repurposed a 50' 3/8" air line with hose fittings on each end as a service hose. Very compact on an extension cord reel. Easy to get all around the coach as needed.
Then I fit in the Upper Section (also 14 ga stainless steel) and finished attaching it. A bit of silicon seal went here and there. The light was attached to the top panel. I didn't even know there was one there until I started taking things apart. I moved it to the side wall and used an LED bulb.
I doesn't look all that different from the original but it is much more serviceable and the third valve will work well.
And I got the direct fresh water fill installed as well.
I knew the big doors on my barn would come in handy.
Parts List
Inside Valve, cable actuated (2)
Amazon.com: Valterra T40BH Valve: Automotive (http://www.amazon.com/Valterra-T40BH-Valve/dp/B00PHSB2D4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&tag=foreforums-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957)
Outside Valve with handle (1)
Amazon.com: Valterra T1003VPM Bladex 3" Waste Valve Body with Metal Handle:... (http://amazon.com/gp/product/B000BGK22E?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage)
Slip Flange (1)
Amazon.com: Valterra T1005 3" Slip Hub Flange: Automotive (http://amazon.com/gp/product/B0006MRR9O?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage)
Flange with Adapter Lugs (1)
Amazon.com: Valterra T1009 3" Bayonet Flange: Automotive (http://amazon.com/gp/product/B0006MRRHQ?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage)
Termination Cap (1)
Amazon.com: Valterra Products, Inc. T1020 3" Black Termination Cap with... (http://amazon.com/gp/product/B0006N5RW2?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage)
90 degree Adapter (1)
Amazon.com: Valterra T1023 90° Clearview Adapter: Automotive (http://amazon.com/gp/product/B0006MRQRM?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage)
45 Degree Adapter (1)
Amazon.com: Valterra T1026-1 45° Clearview Adapter with 3" Bay Lug: Automotive (http://amazon.com/gp/product/B000NCS7GE?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage)
A New Two Part 20' Hose (1)
Amazon.com: Valterra D04-0275 20 Feet Dominator Sewer Hose Kit: Automotive (http://amazon.com/gp/product/B00BDEPJ1W?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage)
Hose End Caps (2)
Amazon.com: Valterra T1020-3VP Drip Cap Set: Automotive (http://amazon.com/gp/product/B0030453CI?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage)
Direct Water Fill (1)
Amazon.com: Valterra A01-0176LFVP White Lead-Free Metal Recessed Water... (http://amazon.com/gp/product/B005947ZR8?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage)
Photos
I hope I did this right, photo links to an album.
Well that didn't work. Back to third grade for me.
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: Don & Tys on June 07, 2015, 12:57:57 pm
Post by: Don & Tys on June 07, 2015, 12:57:57 pm
Thanks Trent. That is a picture of my first version where I still had the Valterra type bayonet connection. It was always a plan to change it out for a Wastemaster/Drainmaster camlock set up, which I did about a year ago or so. For this, I moved the third valve behind the panel so as to allow for the longer camlock connect to be as close as possible to the panel. This gave the necessary clearance for the compartment door to be closed. There was plenty of room to spare... NOT! When all was said and done, it would not have been possible without completely redoing all the waste piping from the tanks if there had been a few millimeters less of clearance between the old cable pull valves and the panel. Here is a a link to the write up and a picture as it is now.
99' U270 Camlock Wastemaster Sewer Hose Install (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=21231.0)
99' U270 Camlock Wastemaster Sewer Hose Install (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=21231.0)
Steve,
I am pretty sure that Don (Acousticart) did an impressive stainless steel panel, but I do not remember the details.
Of course everything he does is impressive!
Trent
Edit: Found this picture, which I think is his:
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: Don & Tys on June 07, 2015, 01:10:12 pm
Post by: Don & Tys on June 07, 2015, 01:10:12 pm
Thanks for the compliment Roger, back at you!
Looks great and nice write up... It always takes a bit of time to do these write ups, especially if your are including product links etc. But the bonus is that later on, you get to look back at it and see what you did. I find that I often forget some essential details of a project if I just rely on memory. Doing the write ups may help someone else faced with a similar issue, but I find the ability to look back at my posts and pictures to be an excellent way to document what I have done and enough reason to do it jus for enlightened self interest. That it may help someone else is icing on the cake!
Don
Looks great and nice write up... It always takes a bit of time to do these write ups, especially if your are including product links etc. But the bonus is that later on, you get to look back at it and see what you did. I find that I often forget some essential details of a project if I just rely on memory. Doing the write ups may help someone else faced with a similar issue, but I find the ability to look back at my posts and pictures to be an excellent way to document what I have done and enough reason to do it jus for enlightened self interest. That it may help someone else is icing on the cake!
Don
Third Waste Valve, 2001, U320, 36' single slide.
Don's work is superb. An inspiration to us all.
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: TulsaTrent on June 07, 2015, 01:36:23 pm
Post by: TulsaTrent on June 07, 2015, 01:36:23 pm
Don,
Thanks for the updated picture and the link to your project.
*Just looking at the picture*, I do not see the third valve handle; where is it located?
Thanks for the inspiration and trailblazing you have done and the complete sharing of your projects. You are an inspiration for all of us Wannabees. If I ever get frustrated, I just have to refer to some of your "skeleton" pictures from your early days!
Trent
Thanks for the updated picture and the link to your project.
*Just looking at the picture*, I do not see the third valve handle; where is it located?
Thanks for the inspiration and trailblazing you have done and the complete sharing of your projects. You are an inspiration for all of us Wannabees. If I ever get frustrated, I just have to refer to some of your "skeleton" pictures from your early days!
Trent
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: TulsaTrent on June 07, 2015, 02:03:20 pm
Post by: TulsaTrent on June 07, 2015, 02:03:20 pm
Third Waste Valve, 2001, U320, 36' single slide.
I wanted to keep the rubber liner, it seems to help keep things tidy. And I wanted this to be easier to reassemble and service if needed in the future. So I sketched up a three piece solution and went to see my neighborhood sheet metal guy. "No problem", he said.
Not only is your project impressive, but your detailed write-up and pictures are certainly a timely help for my ongoing project.
The picture showing your rubber liner looks pristine; is it really the original liner? Mine is coming off in pieces, so I will have to find a replacement. Any suggestions? I've got some aluminum diamond plate, but the rubber seems more practical.
It would really help me to see your sketch for the sheet metal guy. Even if mine is a different size, your conceptual sketch will certainly communicate a lot to him.
Is your third stainless piece flat, or does it have a 90 degree bend and include part of the ceiling.
Your pictures clearly show that not all Foretravels have been maintained the same. Mine is only one year older, but some of your pictures (like the rubber flooring) look brand new in comparison.
Congratulations, and thanks for sharing.
Trent
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: Don & Tys on June 07, 2015, 03:03:08 pm
Post by: Don & Tys on June 07, 2015, 03:03:08 pm
I aim to be of service Trent ;)
The third valve handle pulls straight up, maybe easier to see in the picture below.
Don
The third valve handle pulls straight up, maybe easier to see in the picture below.
Don
Don,
*Just looking at the picture*, I do not see the third valve handle; where is it located?
Thanks for the inspiration and trailblazing you have done and the complete sharing of your projects. You are an inspiration for all of us Wannabees. If I ever get frustrated, I just have to refer to some of your "skeleton" pictures from your early days!
Trent
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: TulsaTrent on June 07, 2015, 05:24:27 pm
Post by: TulsaTrent on June 07, 2015, 05:24:27 pm
Thanks, Don.
Now that I know where it is, I can see it in your earlier picture, too.
Most of the pictures show it pulling to the right. You and Roger both have it coming straight up, which makes more sense to me. Unless it interferes with the black tank handle, or the side of the "square" valve body happens to be thinner on the side than the bottom.
Finally got my back panels off and discovered another gotcha. Most of the pictures we have seen show the the ABS plumbing and the PEX hoses, and little else. I discovered that there are several heater hoses running hither and yon. It is certainly doable, but not the "piece of cake" I was dreaming about.
Also, it looks like I am going to have to use the original valve bodies because of the "H" frame with the cable sheath mount at the top. The ones I ordered and saw discussed from Amazon have the wire cable terminal, but not the top part that let's the wire cable slide up and down the cable "sheath."
Looks like I would have been better off just ordering the package with two seals and the nuts and bolts, which was cheaper. Or am I missing something. Or have I just confused everyone else, being too dumb to be confused myself?
Will let y'all know if the hero saves the damsel and wins in the end.
Trent
Now that I know where it is, I can see it in your earlier picture, too.
Most of the pictures show it pulling to the right. You and Roger both have it coming straight up, which makes more sense to me. Unless it interferes with the black tank handle, or the side of the "square" valve body happens to be thinner on the side than the bottom.
Finally got my back panels off and discovered another gotcha. Most of the pictures we have seen show the the ABS plumbing and the PEX hoses, and little else. I discovered that there are several heater hoses running hither and yon. It is certainly doable, but not the "piece of cake" I was dreaming about.
Also, it looks like I am going to have to use the original valve bodies because of the "H" frame with the cable sheath mount at the top. The ones I ordered and saw discussed from Amazon have the wire cable terminal, but not the top part that let's the wire cable slide up and down the cable "sheath."
Looks like I would have been better off just ordering the package with two seals and the nuts and bolts, which was cheaper. Or am I missing something. Or have I just confused everyone else, being too dumb to be confused myself?
Will let y'all know if the hero saves the damsel and wins in the end.
Trent
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on June 07, 2015, 06:10:45 pm
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on June 07, 2015, 06:10:45 pm
The Rubber Liner
Mine was in pretty good shape but to get at the main valves it had to come off. Some careful easing it off with a long thin scraper did the trick. Glued on with some sort of contact cement. Mine had no tears in it and it cleaned up well so I just reused it.
The Cable Attachment Extensions to the Valve Body
I bought valve bodies ready for the cable wire and reused the original cable attachment extensions. Much cheaper that way. Unless yours are broken there is no reason not to use them. Same with cables. They appear to be stainless steel. Mine were in good shape. I cleaned and lubed them well. I painted the gray water tank valve handle gray.
Third Panel
The third panel is a 90° piece that extends the back wall up another 4" and then out towards the outside of the coach about 9" to the bottom of the slide opening reinforcement. The 2001 coaches with slides have some extra structure under the slide opening the extends down into the bays. My first picture shows the water fill mounted in this structure, basically a truss made of steel tubing. My water fill and water pump switches are mounted in this above the waste half of the bay. This structure takes up about 1/3 of the height of the bay.
As I am discovering as I meet more owners and see their coaches, there are many differences from year to year and even within years. Dave M has the exact same coach as mine (expect for everything he has done to his and I have done to mine) and they are only a few build numbers apart but many small things are different. So be inspired and measure carefully since yours will be unique.
I will send a sketch of my metal parts.they are pretty simple, most any shop can fabricate them for you. Stainless is tough to work with. 14 ga is about 0.08 inches and it was hard to drill the bigger 1-1/8" and 5/8" holes and hard to saw the openings. It would have been much easier to work with steel and then (harder) to get them powder coated. Cost would have been about the same.
Roger
Mine was in pretty good shape but to get at the main valves it had to come off. Some careful easing it off with a long thin scraper did the trick. Glued on with some sort of contact cement. Mine had no tears in it and it cleaned up well so I just reused it.
The Cable Attachment Extensions to the Valve Body
I bought valve bodies ready for the cable wire and reused the original cable attachment extensions. Much cheaper that way. Unless yours are broken there is no reason not to use them. Same with cables. They appear to be stainless steel. Mine were in good shape. I cleaned and lubed them well. I painted the gray water tank valve handle gray.
Third Panel
The third panel is a 90° piece that extends the back wall up another 4" and then out towards the outside of the coach about 9" to the bottom of the slide opening reinforcement. The 2001 coaches with slides have some extra structure under the slide opening the extends down into the bays. My first picture shows the water fill mounted in this structure, basically a truss made of steel tubing. My water fill and water pump switches are mounted in this above the waste half of the bay. This structure takes up about 1/3 of the height of the bay.
As I am discovering as I meet more owners and see their coaches, there are many differences from year to year and even within years. Dave M has the exact same coach as mine (expect for everything he has done to his and I have done to mine) and they are only a few build numbers apart but many small things are different. So be inspired and measure carefully since yours will be unique.
I will send a sketch of my metal parts.they are pretty simple, most any shop can fabricate them for you. Stainless is tough to work with. 14 ga is about 0.08 inches and it was hard to drill the bigger 1-1/8" and 5/8" holes and hard to saw the openings. It would have been much easier to work with steel and then (harder) to get them powder coated. Cost would have been about the same.
Roger
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: Mark... on June 07, 2015, 06:45:12 pm
Post by: Mark... on June 07, 2015, 06:45:12 pm
There must be a subtle design difference between the 03s and 05s. I had the Thetford connection removed and a Valterra valve installed with a horizontal pull. I regularly attach a 90 degree elbow (facing down) and close the bay door with no issues. When the coach is available I'll post pics. No panels were removed and it was a simple straight forward change.
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: rbark on June 07, 2015, 06:52:58 pm
Post by: rbark on June 07, 2015, 06:52:58 pm
I sorta copied Dons idea, but used 3 sheets of aluminum instead of stainless steel.outlets in top panel, nothing in middle panel and dump valves/ water faucet in lower panel. Aluminum is sure easy to work with!
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on June 07, 2015, 07:22:48 pm
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on June 07, 2015, 07:22:48 pm
Mark, I could have just cut off the outlet pipe and added a third valve without taking anything apart in our 2001. But I was getting a bit of seepage from the main tank valves and figured they were cheap to replace. They were. But the serviceability issue lead me to rebuild the panels as well. Aluminium would be a good choice for material. A bit cheaper, easier to machine. If I was doing it again I would probably use aluminum. Each year seems to be a bit different.
I hope all of these ideas help the next person who has to fix their main valves or wants to add a third valve.
Roger
I hope all of these ideas help the next person who has to fix their main valves or wants to add a third valve.
Roger
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: JohnFitz on June 07, 2015, 07:34:50 pm
Post by: JohnFitz on June 07, 2015, 07:34:50 pm
One thing I just learned was Valterra makes several flange options that bolt to the valve. There's a Hub and a Spigot. The hub is for gluing over a pipe, the spigot is gluing into a fitting. It appears Foretravel used both in the OEM configuration to save space.
The Valterra catalog list them all: Downloads - Valterra.com | Valterra.com (http://www.valterra.com/downloads/download-info/rv-aftermarket-catalog/)
Once you have the right part number it's easy to search for it. Amazon has an amazing selection of Valterra parts.
The Valterra catalog list them all: Downloads - Valterra.com | Valterra.com (http://www.valterra.com/downloads/download-info/rv-aftermarket-catalog/)
Once you have the right part number it's easy to search for it. Amazon has an amazing selection of Valterra parts.
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: steve on June 07, 2015, 07:43:41 pm
Post by: steve on June 07, 2015, 07:43:41 pm
Roger,
Fantastic job, I'm envious of both what you and Don have done! ... But there is no way in he-double toothpicks that I'm going to open up that panel again :D I can only due that every 5 years as thats all the money I have for the curse jar.
Did I miss what you did with the tank sensors? I see the former location noted.
Thank you for another super write up, I know that takes a lot of work but is SO helpful for others, and a lot of fun to read.
(PS I "fixed" your album links, they were find but you can't add the spaces around the '=' sign ... its smg id=x not smg id = x)
Fantastic job, I'm envious of both what you and Don have done! ... But there is no way in he-double toothpicks that I'm going to open up that panel again :D I can only due that every 5 years as thats all the money I have for the curse jar.
Did I miss what you did with the tank sensors? I see the former location noted.
Thank you for another super write up, I know that takes a lot of work but is SO helpful for others, and a lot of fun to read.
(PS I "fixed" your album links, they were find but you can't add the spaces around the '=' sign ... its smg id=x not smg id = x)
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on June 07, 2015, 08:39:42 pm
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on June 07, 2015, 08:39:42 pm
Thanks Steve. I probably should have tried something simple with one picture. I see you saw I figure out bold. 😀 I was able to move photos to an album from my laptop but it doesn't seem to work from my iPad.
I did remove the old sensors. They were really gross. I didn't even want to try cleaning them. No wonder they never read with any accuracy. Could have left them in but I like tidy. I put in a See Level system last fall. Very Nice!
The access panel you put in is a great idea too. I thought about leaving the whole thing open, that would leave inspection and service easy but I worry about critters. I need to get one of those bore scopes to look in those hidden spaces. Scuba Guy and I looked down our AC ducts with his. Pretty cool.
Doing these write ups is like Don said, as much for ourselves as others. If we can help even one other owner give a project a try and help them be successful it is worth the effort. This is the best part of this community. Everyone can contribute, everyone can benefit, everyone can learn.
Roger
I did remove the old sensors. They were really gross. I didn't even want to try cleaning them. No wonder they never read with any accuracy. Could have left them in but I like tidy. I put in a See Level system last fall. Very Nice!
The access panel you put in is a great idea too. I thought about leaving the whole thing open, that would leave inspection and service easy but I worry about critters. I need to get one of those bore scopes to look in those hidden spaces. Scuba Guy and I looked down our AC ducts with his. Pretty cool.
Doing these write ups is like Don said, as much for ourselves as others. If we can help even one other owner give a project a try and help them be successful it is worth the effort. This is the best part of this community. Everyone can contribute, everyone can benefit, everyone can learn.
Roger
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: Don & Tys on June 07, 2015, 09:07:07 pm
Post by: Don & Tys on June 07, 2015, 09:07:07 pm
Wow Roger, now that the gallery is working, I would say you set a new standard for detailed write ups! ^.^d One which I will aspire to once we have finished the moving of our home base to the SKP's Co-Op park near Temecula... I have quite a backlog of projects that I have pictures for. I guess I need to spend some time and figure out how to use the Gallery as you did, and also place pictures inline with the relevant body of text. What a resource this forum is! ^.^d
Don
Don
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: toyman on June 07, 2015, 10:52:26 pm
Post by: toyman on June 07, 2015, 10:52:26 pm
What's the purpose of the rubber liner ?
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on June 07, 2015, 11:17:46 pm
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on June 07, 2015, 11:17:46 pm
I guess to trap and contain spills. The faucet dribbles after shutting it off occasionally. Lets you rinse that part of the bay. I guess this is another example of yours is different from mine.
I have found it helpful in keeping this section clean.
Roger
I have found it helpful in keeping this section clean.
Roger
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: Mark... on June 08, 2015, 12:46:53 pm
Post by: Mark... on June 08, 2015, 12:46:53 pm
Mark, I could have just cut off the outlet pipe and added a third valve without taking anything apart in our 2001.
That was the point I was trying to make in a subtle way for others. Don't get me wrong, I admire the amazing things you and others can do but, sometimes it is ok to just do the simple thing if that is all that is needed.
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on June 08, 2015, 01:57:20 pm
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on June 08, 2015, 01:57:20 pm
Trent, here is a sketch of my panels. Can't attach pics to PM. Measure your setup carefully.
Mark, you can get a third valve with a female bayonet fitting on one side and a male on the other side. Some folks have done that too. Lots of ways to accomplish the task. Sooner or later the main valves are likely going to need some maintenance or replacement. I would rather do this now when it is not a very nasty emergency.
Roger
Mark, you can get a third valve with a female bayonet fitting on one side and a male on the other side. Some folks have done that too. Lots of ways to accomplish the task. Sooner or later the main valves are likely going to need some maintenance or replacement. I would rather do this now when it is not a very nasty emergency.
Roger
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: TulsaTrent on June 08, 2015, 03:06:06 pm
Post by: TulsaTrent on June 08, 2015, 03:06:06 pm
Roger,
Thank you very much for sharing. WOW! I am sure others will benefit from your R&D.
It is truly amazing how much information you conveyed with so little on a piece of paper. My three semesters of drafting left me with enough knowledge to recognize brilliance when I see it. (I was an Aeronautical Engineering student before I became an Electrical Engineer.)
Trent
Thank you very much for sharing. WOW! I am sure others will benefit from your R&D.
It is truly amazing how much information you conveyed with so little on a piece of paper. My three semesters of drafting left me with enough knowledge to recognize brilliance when I see it. (I was an Aeronautical Engineering student before I became an Electrical Engineer.)
Trent
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: TulsaTrent on June 14, 2015, 03:12:42 pm
Post by: TulsaTrent on June 14, 2015, 03:12:42 pm
On the far right of the utility bay is a small door that covers an area for storage of the sewer hose. In the process of cleaning up to add a third valve, I tried to remove this door which is covering some of the rubber mat which I am removing (in pieces).
I have removed EIGHT screws from the inner slot around the door (normally covered by the door), but the door assembly will not budge. I wanted to clean up the area while I clean up the sewer door, while I am doing preventive maintenance on two tank valves. The lip of the door assembly looks like it is on top of the upper potion of the rubber mat. There is a large dose of sealant around the door assembly.
Has anyone successfully removed this door assembly? Is it likely that with the screws removed, it is now held fast by the sealant around the edge of it? Is there any reason to continue trying to disassemble it any further?
thanks for any explanations, suggestions, or guidance anyone can provide,
Trent
I have removed EIGHT screws from the inner slot around the door (normally covered by the door), but the door assembly will not budge. I wanted to clean up the area while I clean up the sewer door, while I am doing preventive maintenance on two tank valves. The lip of the door assembly looks like it is on top of the upper potion of the rubber mat. There is a large dose of sealant around the door assembly.
Has anyone successfully removed this door assembly? Is it likely that with the screws removed, it is now held fast by the sealant around the edge of it? Is there any reason to continue trying to disassemble it any further?
thanks for any explanations, suggestions, or guidance anyone can provide,
Trent
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: Don & Tys on June 14, 2015, 03:27:49 pm
Post by: Don & Tys on June 14, 2015, 03:27:49 pm
It is held in place by the sealant. I removed the one on ours twice... once when I rebuilt the bulkhead and then after I actually used the coach and tried to stow the sewer hose in it, at which point I removed it and covered the backside in front of the driver's side rear wheels with a pice of 16 gage stainless. I think I may have posted on it awhile back... but not sure.
Edit: Here are a couple of pictures while in process.
Don
Edit: Here are a couple of pictures while in process.
Don
Has anyone successfully removed this door assembly? Is it likely that with the screws removed, it is now held fast by the sealant around the edge of it? Is there any reason to continue trying to disassemble it any further?
thanks for any explanations, suggestions, or guidance anyone can provide,
Trent
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: TulsaTrent on June 14, 2015, 03:36:14 pm
Post by: TulsaTrent on June 14, 2015, 03:36:14 pm
I am still wrestling with removing the lowest back wall section. It is the one that (in my case) has the faucet and both tank valve handles. I have removed the water pipes from the back of the faucet.
I have not been able to remove any more of the faucet components from the lower wall section. Part of the problem is that the gray valve cable is too short. The black tank cable is long enough to let me move the bottom wall section out of the way. When I rebuild the two valves, I am going to switch the valves, so that the shorter cable goes to the black tank which will have more excess cable with the shorter cable (as the valves are physically located).
If I can remove the gray tank handle section from the that wall section, then I could move that wall section up and out of the way. This should give me enough clearance to allow me to replace the seals and clean the gate valves.
My questions are:
1. How do I remove the gray tank handle assembly from the wall section?
2. How do I further disassemble the outside faucet? I have tried using an adjustable wrench to remove the connector that attaches the thru-the-wall pipe to the body of the faucet, but it did not want to budge. I think I am turning it in the right direction (righty-tighty, lefty-loosey). I can use a cheater pipe for more leverage, but am afraid of destroying the faucet assembly. I have gotten a pretty good push/pull on it with a 10" wrench.
3. Do I need to replace the rubber flooring piece? I have the replacement ribbed rubberish material. If I do replace it, do I bring it up to the front metal or try to go under it? Do I fold the back and sides and seal the corners of them good enough to hold water if it drips?
Thanks for any advice y'all might be willing to provide,
Trent
I have not been able to remove any more of the faucet components from the lower wall section. Part of the problem is that the gray valve cable is too short. The black tank cable is long enough to let me move the bottom wall section out of the way. When I rebuild the two valves, I am going to switch the valves, so that the shorter cable goes to the black tank which will have more excess cable with the shorter cable (as the valves are physically located).
If I can remove the gray tank handle section from the that wall section, then I could move that wall section up and out of the way. This should give me enough clearance to allow me to replace the seals and clean the gate valves.
My questions are:
1. How do I remove the gray tank handle assembly from the wall section?
2. How do I further disassemble the outside faucet? I have tried using an adjustable wrench to remove the connector that attaches the thru-the-wall pipe to the body of the faucet, but it did not want to budge. I think I am turning it in the right direction (righty-tighty, lefty-loosey). I can use a cheater pipe for more leverage, but am afraid of destroying the faucet assembly. I have gotten a pretty good push/pull on it with a 10" wrench.
3. Do I need to replace the rubber flooring piece? I have the replacement ribbed rubberish material. If I do replace it, do I bring it up to the front metal or try to go under it? Do I fold the back and sides and seal the corners of them good enough to hold water if it drips?
Thanks for any advice y'all might be willing to provide,
Trent
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: TulsaTrent on June 14, 2015, 03:49:13 pm
Post by: TulsaTrent on June 14, 2015, 03:49:13 pm
after I actually used the coach and tried to stow the sewer hose in it, at which point I removed it and covered the backside in front of the driver's side rear wheels with a piece of 16 gauge stainless.
So you totally removed any access to the Foretravel sewer hose storage vault?
(Which gives you the same storage ability that I have, based on the number of times I have used it.)
I am not sure I want to stow my used sewer hose there either, but it seems a shame to not use that area for something -- but I don't know what. Maybe a place to store valuables, with some minor modifications.
Thanks for your quick response and continued demonstration of your willingness to share your experiences with others.
Trent
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on June 14, 2015, 03:51:25 pm
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on June 14, 2015, 03:51:25 pm
Mine had a lot of 2" or more ss screws and lots of silicone seal. I took the screws out and used a thin scraper to pry it loose from the silicone. I could pull it into the bay about an inch, enough to get the rubber liner out and later back in. The door assembly looked like it was glued into the 90° fitting that was connected to the transverse tube for storing the drain hose. This tube and the door are not big enough to fit a hose with fittings. So I just put mine back in with new silicone and screws.
Maybe I will find something to store there. It is open to the weather at the other end so nothing important.
My new Valterra hoses are much easier to store. They compress in length and stay compressed. 10' to about 40".
Roger
Maybe I will find something to store there. It is open to the weather at the other end so nothing important.
My new Valterra hoses are much easier to store. They compress in length and stay compressed. 10' to about 40".
Roger
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: Don & Tys on June 14, 2015, 04:32:36 pm
Post by: Don & Tys on June 14, 2015, 04:32:36 pm
Trent,
On our coach, the sewer hose storage was in a 4 inch ABS pipe in front of the axle that you access through a white plastic hatch just in front of the outside dually. It was very difficult to try and feed the sewer host through the 90º elbow there, and none of the Valterra fittings would fit. I took the hatch and 4" ABS pipe out, which also improved access from underneath to the wet tank area. Now I store the Wastemaster Hose which has a valve in the Nozzle, but I also made a cap. The entire area under the cord reel shelf is caulked top and bottom except at the front. When stowed, of course all three waste valves plus the final one in the nozzle are closed. If I wish, I can put the entire 20' hose plus an extension hose and a shoe box full of various adapters etc. and cover it with a hatch, but so far I love the quick hook up I get just leaving it connected at the camlock fitting and pulling the hose out. It is very convenient.
Don
On our coach, the sewer hose storage was in a 4 inch ABS pipe in front of the axle that you access through a white plastic hatch just in front of the outside dually. It was very difficult to try and feed the sewer host through the 90º elbow there, and none of the Valterra fittings would fit. I took the hatch and 4" ABS pipe out, which also improved access from underneath to the wet tank area. Now I store the Wastemaster Hose which has a valve in the Nozzle, but I also made a cap. The entire area under the cord reel shelf is caulked top and bottom except at the front. When stowed, of course all three waste valves plus the final one in the nozzle are closed. If I wish, I can put the entire 20' hose plus an extension hose and a shoe box full of various adapters etc. and cover it with a hatch, but so far I love the quick hook up I get just leaving it connected at the camlock fitting and pulling the hose out. It is very convenient.
Don
Don,
So you totally removed any access to the Foretravel sewer hose storage vault?
(Which gives you the same storage ability that I have, based on the number of times I have used it.)
I am not sure I want to stow my used sewer hose there either, but it seems a shame to not use that area for something -- but I don't know what. Maybe a place to store valuables, with some minor modifications.
Thanks for your quick response and continued demonstration of your willingness to share your experiences with others.
Trent
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: juicesqueezer on March 28, 2020, 04:16:29 pm
Post by: juicesqueezer on March 28, 2020, 04:16:29 pm
Our wet bay faucet bit the bullet the other day and I decided that along with replacing it, I would install a 3rd valve and quite fooling with those cables to the black and grey tanks. It got to the point of throwing good money after bad and when I had to put both hands on the handle to pull the valve open, I decided it was time to cut my losses!
So, I went in and cut the cables, made sure the valves were fully open and installed a 3rd valve. I ordered the faucet from websturant.com and it met the 8 inch spread for the holes as well as a good price. I believe with shipping, tax, it was less than $50. Got all back together yesterday and am a happy camper now!
So, I went in and cut the cables, made sure the valves were fully open and installed a 3rd valve. I ordered the faucet from websturant.com and it met the 8 inch spread for the holes as well as a good price. I believe with shipping, tax, it was less than $50. Got all back together yesterday and am a happy camper now!
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on March 28, 2020, 06:47:59 pm
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on March 28, 2020, 06:47:59 pm
Joe, are you saying you opened and left open the gray and black valves and now have only the third valve to hold back the sludge?
I replaced both the gray and black valves with the center blade section of new valves. I reused the flanges.
Amazon.com: Valterra T1003PBC 3" Valve Body: Automotive (https://amazon.com/gp/product/B009QWWXRG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Lube all of the moving parts and gaskets with silicone plumber's grease.
I reused the OEM cables. Pulled the wire out and cleaned it us, lubed it with lithium grease. They work fine.
The way I use mine is to start with all valves closed, double check connections, open the black valve about 1/4 of the way, open the third valve about 1/4 of the way and check to see if anything is misbehaving. Believe me having just a small flow is way better than a full blown blow out.
If all is OK the third valve gets opened all the way, black valve full open.
Once the black tank is empty, close the third valve and open the gray valve. If you can monitor your tanks close the gray valve after about 1/4 has drained out or about 20 seconds. This flushes gray water into the black tank. Now open the third valve until the black tank is empty. Then close the third valve.
Repeat a couple times until you have used 2/3 - 3/4 of the gray tank. The black tank will be flushed out and empty. Close the black tank valve.
Open the third valve and the gray valve and let the gray tank empty. Close the gray valve and the third valve. Double check that all three valves are closed. Deal with the hoses.
Other likely will do it differently but the idea is the same.
Roger
I replaced both the gray and black valves with the center blade section of new valves. I reused the flanges.
Amazon.com: Valterra T1003PBC 3" Valve Body: Automotive (https://amazon.com/gp/product/B009QWWXRG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Lube all of the moving parts and gaskets with silicone plumber's grease.
I reused the OEM cables. Pulled the wire out and cleaned it us, lubed it with lithium grease. They work fine.
The way I use mine is to start with all valves closed, double check connections, open the black valve about 1/4 of the way, open the third valve about 1/4 of the way and check to see if anything is misbehaving. Believe me having just a small flow is way better than a full blown blow out.
If all is OK the third valve gets opened all the way, black valve full open.
Once the black tank is empty, close the third valve and open the gray valve. If you can monitor your tanks close the gray valve after about 1/4 has drained out or about 20 seconds. This flushes gray water into the black tank. Now open the third valve until the black tank is empty. Then close the third valve.
Repeat a couple times until you have used 2/3 - 3/4 of the gray tank. The black tank will be flushed out and empty. Close the black tank valve.
Open the third valve and the gray valve and let the gray tank empty. Close the gray valve and the third valve. Double check that all three valves are closed. Deal with the hoses.
Other likely will do it differently but the idea is the same.
Roger
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: juicesqueezer on March 28, 2020, 07:59:24 pm
Post by: juicesqueezer on March 28, 2020, 07:59:24 pm
Yes, Roger, left open the black and grey and only have the 3rd valve. When I dump, I flush the black out till clear water comes out and that cleans the sewer hose. Have not had any issues with this and it sure is easier to dump now. Of course, when I dump, I start slowly just to make sure all is okay! Don't want any issues with that mess!
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: Jeff & Sandy on March 28, 2020, 09:49:14 pm
Post by: Jeff & Sandy on March 28, 2020, 09:49:14 pm
Joe, so basically your black tank and grey tank are open to each other all the time and your only valve is the third valve?
I admit, that would make me nervous. I like the redundancy that my 3rd valve gives me. I also like how I can use the grey tank to flush the black tank and the sewer hose... with three valves.
I admit, that would make me nervous. I like the redundancy that my 3rd valve gives me. I also like how I can use the grey tank to flush the black tank and the sewer hose... with three valves.
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: juicesqueezer on March 29, 2020, 12:30:08 am
Post by: juicesqueezer on March 29, 2020, 12:30:08 am
Joe, so basically your black tank and grey tank are open to each other all the time and your only valve is the third valve?
I admit, that would make me nervous. I like the redundancy that my 3rd valve gives me. I also like how I can use the grey tank to flush the black tank and the sewer hose... with three valves.
I have had no issue with this and the tanks show empty when dumped! I do flush the system out quite well.
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: Journey, Roam, Explore on March 29, 2020, 01:30:58 am
Post by: Journey, Roam, Explore on March 29, 2020, 01:30:58 am
Joe that gives you one valve to contain all your sewage. If that fails you're not going to like it. Just clean and relube them. Or replace them. It's cheap insurance.
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: Caflashbob on March 29, 2020, 02:19:17 am
Post by: Caflashbob on March 29, 2020, 02:19:17 am
New coaches do have combined holding tanks do they not?
Most new coaches were designed to have full hookups always
The idea of bootleg dumping of a grey tank is easier with split tanks.
Sink and shower water? We used to be remote area dry campers in the open dez.....
Most new coaches were designed to have full hookups always
The idea of bootleg dumping of a grey tank is easier with split tanks.
Sink and shower water? We used to be remote area dry campers in the open dez.....
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: juicesqueezer on March 29, 2020, 10:53:53 am
Post by: juicesqueezer on March 29, 2020, 10:53:53 am
New coaches do have combined holding tanks do they not?
Most new coaches were designed to have full hookups always
The idea of bootleg dumping of a grey tank is easier with split tanks.
Sink and shower water? We used to be remote area dry campers in the open dez.....
Bob, this is just the reason why I decided to go this route. New RV's only have one dump valve for both. I have full timed going on 7 years now and have never had any issues with dumping, ever! I buy the best hoses and check them regularly. I also don't just go out and open that valve all the way, as I open slightly and see if there is an issue and then proceed. My tanks have been happier with this setup and I have been keeping more money in my pocket. The last charge on repairing these valves with installing new ones in May last year was just over $500. Was not a happy camper on that bill! I hate to use the word, but dumping now is a much less stressful experience. Just saying..................
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: Jack Lewis on March 29, 2020, 11:52:12 am
Post by: Jack Lewis on March 29, 2020, 11:52:12 am
......., I would install a 3rd valve and quite fooling with those cables to the black and grey tanks. ....I had to put both hands on the handle to pull the valve open, I decided it was time to cut my losses!
So, I went in and cut the cables, made sure the valves were fully open and installed a 3rd valve. .... back together yesterday and am a happy camper now!
I post this because someone might try this instead of servicing, or in my opinion, a better choice, replacement of the inexpensive knife valves.
I have serviced and replaced many. Yes it might take a few hours of your time or $300 to $500 at a shop. It will be worth it.
Having worked in both rv sales and rv repair, for over 45 yrs, I have seen many a coach owner pay big money to remove a "cone" from their black tank. Too many issues I could talk about if one chooses to go the way of one dump valve. I believe anyone that has had a knife valve totally lock up would never depend on one valve Much is written on this subject, do your research, and enjoy.
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: gracerace on March 29, 2020, 12:41:20 pm
Post by: gracerace on March 29, 2020, 12:41:20 pm
The idea of bootleg dumping of a grey tank is easier with split tanks.
LOL.......
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: juicesqueezer on March 29, 2020, 05:10:51 pm
Post by: juicesqueezer on March 29, 2020, 05:10:51 pm
I post this because someone might try this instead of servicing, or in my opinion, a better choice, replacement of the inexpensive knife valves.
I have serviced and replaced many. Yes it might take a few hours of your time or $300 to $500 at a shop. It will be worth it.
Having worked in both rv sales and rv repair, for over 45 yrs, I have seen many a coach owner pay big money to remove a "cone" from their black tank. Too many issues I could talk about if one chooses to go the way of one dump valve. I believe anyone that has had a knife valve totally lock up would never depend on one valve Much is written on this subject, do your research, and enjoy.
Those valves were brand new and never worked to my satisfaction and well lubed also. I was at the point of doing something that wouldn't leave us standed with no way to dump the tanks and this was it. I did look at electric valves, but that is another issue in of itself, with nightmare stories out there. I was afraid of the handle pulling off, it was so hard to pull. A cap on the end with a smaller cap near the top is the answer to NO SURPRISES, in case of the worst scenario of a failed valve. This isn't my first rodeo!
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: wolfe10 on March 29, 2020, 05:19:50 pm
Post by: wolfe10 on March 29, 2020, 05:19:50 pm
OK, got to ask: Is all this talk about dump valves driven by the shortage of toilet paper??????
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: craneman on March 29, 2020, 07:58:28 pm
Post by: craneman on March 29, 2020, 07:58:28 pm
In the 5 years I have owned the coach no problem with the electric actuators on the valves that were installed by the PO. I didn't even know they weren't factory until I joined the Forum.
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: gracerace on March 29, 2020, 08:03:35 pm
Post by: gracerace on March 29, 2020, 08:03:35 pm
In the 5 years I have owned the coach no problem with the electric actuators on the valves that were installed by the PO. I didn't even know they weren't factory until I joined the Forum.
I wired the valves, up to dash switch's for a customer on his U320 8)
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: amos.harrison on March 30, 2020, 09:48:24 am
Post by: amos.harrison on March 30, 2020, 09:48:24 am
Brett, you don't put toilet paper down your toilet, do you?
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: juicesqueezer on March 30, 2020, 11:31:50 am
Post by: juicesqueezer on March 30, 2020, 11:31:50 am
In the 5 years I have owned the coach no problem with the electric actuators on the valves that were installed by the PO. I didn't even know they weren't factory until I joined the Forum.
Chuck, maybe I should have spoken to you before I did this, but have read so many horror stories on dump vlaves not opening and of course, you know this only happens when the tanks are really full to the brim! Don't even want to deal with that issue! lol
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: juicesqueezer on March 30, 2020, 11:32:53 am
Post by: juicesqueezer on March 30, 2020, 11:32:53 am
I wired the valves, up to dash switch's for a customer on his U320 8)
Interesting!
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: craneman on March 30, 2020, 11:33:59 am
Post by: craneman on March 30, 2020, 11:33:59 am
If there is a failure on the electric actuator, the mechanical valves are still in place and can be operated manually.
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: gracerace on March 30, 2020, 11:50:17 am
Post by: gracerace on March 30, 2020, 11:50:17 am
Chuck, maybe I should have spoken to you before I did this, but have read so many horror stories on dump vlaves not opening and of course, you know this only happens when the tanks are really full to the brim! Don't even want to deal with that issue! lol
Been there, done that many times. Take a drill, drill a hole, drain the fluids, then take it apart.
Rubber gloves and a hazmat suit!
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: Res777 on August 12, 2021, 10:58:56 am
Post by: Res777 on August 12, 2021, 10:58:56 am
The Rubber Liner
Mine was in pretty good shape but to get at the main valves it had to come off. Some careful easing it off with a long thin scraper did the trick. Glued on with some sort of contact cement. Mine had no tears in it and it cleaned up well so I just reused it.
The Cable Attachment Extensions to the Valve Body
I bought valve bodies ready for the cable wire and reused the original cable attachment extensions. Much cheaper that way. Unless yours are broken there is no reason not to use them. Same with cables. They appear to be stainless steel. Mine were in good shape. I cleaned and lubed them well. I painted the gray water tank valve handle gray.
Third Panel
The third panel is a 90° piece that extends the back wall up another 4" and then out towards the outside of the coach about 9" to the bottom of the slide opening reinforcement. The 2001 coaches with slides have some extra structure under the slide opening the extends down into the bays. My first picture shows the water fill mounted in this structure, basically a truss made of steel tubing. My water fill and water pump switches are mounted in this above the waste half of the bay. This structure takes up about 1/3 of the height of the bay.
As I am discovering as I meet more owners and see their coaches, there are many differences from year to year and even within years. Dave M has the exact same coach as mine (expect for everything he has done to his and I have done to mine) and they are only a few build numbers apart but many small things are different. So be inspired and measure carefully since yours will be unique.
I will send a sketch of my metal parts.they are pretty simple, most any shop can fabricate them for you. Stainless is tough to work with. 14 ga is about 0.08 inches and it was hard to drill the bigger 1-1/8" and 5/8" holes and hard to saw the openings. It would have been much easier to work with steel and then (harder) to get them powder coated. Cost would have been about the same.
Roger
Hi Roger,
A couple of quick newbie questions. When you change out a blade valve. What is the process? Is that valve glued in? What do you use to lubricate the cables? I have a single valve and it's pretty difficult to operate. Thanks.
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on August 12, 2021, 11:55:26 am
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on August 12, 2021, 11:55:26 am
The blade valve housing is between two flange fittings. The flange fittings are glues to the pipes on either side. There are four bolts that go through the four corners of the flanges and blade housing to hold it all together.
There is a large o-ring on either side of the valve housing that fits into a mating grove on the flanges. Hold it it place with plumber's silicone grease. Use the same grease to very liberally lube the sliding part of the valve and the rubber seals on either side.
Make sure the o-rings are seated properly. If not it will likely leak. The hardest part is getting at the nuts and bolts, a long extension for the sockets or a flexible one helps. I replaced the nuts and bolts with stainless ones ans used an anti-seize lubricant on the threads.
Empty your tanks as best you can, add more fresh water and empty again. Both of my tanks empty towards the driver's side. I leaned the coach hard to the passengers side and then started disassembling. I stuffed a rag in the pipes to stop any leaking or smells.
I removed the pipes and valve assembly from the tanks to replace the valve bodies. Easier to do outside of the coach. Then I cut the old original hose connection fitting off and glued on a new flange for the third valve. Then it all went back in with shallow aluminum trays under the valves to catch any leaks and reattached to the tanks with the hose clamps.
The valve cable housing is clamped in the valve body, and a set screw holds the center cable. If the set screw is loosened you can pull the center cable out with the handle. I used a spray lithium grease for lube. The little red tube will push grease through the spiral housing, I have re-lubed the cables a couple times.
While you are in there clean everything as best you can. Leave some way to look inside to check for leaks.
The third valve is a useful project. It really is in spite of what others may so I will just put a line through it. You may not need one with just a single combined tank but the third valve also provides an extra protection from a failed or leaking primary valve. Most of us have two waste tanks.
There is a large o-ring on either side of the valve housing that fits into a mating grove on the flanges. Hold it it place with plumber's silicone grease. Use the same grease to very liberally lube the sliding part of the valve and the rubber seals on either side.
Make sure the o-rings are seated properly. If not it will likely leak. The hardest part is getting at the nuts and bolts, a long extension for the sockets or a flexible one helps. I replaced the nuts and bolts with stainless ones ans used an anti-seize lubricant on the threads.
Empty your tanks as best you can, add more fresh water and empty again. Both of my tanks empty towards the driver's side. I leaned the coach hard to the passengers side and then started disassembling. I stuffed a rag in the pipes to stop any leaking or smells.
I removed the pipes and valve assembly from the tanks to replace the valve bodies. Easier to do outside of the coach. Then I cut the old original hose connection fitting off and glued on a new flange for the third valve. Then it all went back in with shallow aluminum trays under the valves to catch any leaks and reattached to the tanks with the hose clamps.
The valve cable housing is clamped in the valve body, and a set screw holds the center cable. If the set screw is loosened you can pull the center cable out with the handle. I used a spray lithium grease for lube. The little red tube will push grease through the spiral housing, I have re-lubed the cables a couple times.
While you are in there clean everything as best you can. Leave some way to look inside to check for leaks.
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: Michelle on August 12, 2021, 04:50:37 pm
Post by: Michelle on August 12, 2021, 04:50:37 pm
The third valve is a useful project.
Res777 has a 2008 Nimbus, so the utility bay is likely different than a 2001. I recall with the 2002-2005 year coaches, one cannot install a 3rd valve easily and still have the utility bay door close with the dump hose attached. The dump piping needs to be cut quite a ways back for that to work. 2008 may be even different.
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on August 12, 2021, 05:48:26 pm
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on August 12, 2021, 05:48:26 pm
Res777 has a 2008 Nimbus, so the utility bay is likely different than a 2001.
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: Res777 on August 12, 2021, 05:53:22 pm
Post by: Res777 on August 12, 2021, 05:53:22 pm
Res777 has a 2008 Nimbus, so the utility bay is likely different than a 2001. I recall with the 2002-2005 year coaches, one cannot install a 3rd valve easily and still have the utility bay door close with the dump hose attached. The dump piping needs to be cut quite a ways back for that to work. 2008 may be even different.
My wet bay has a small storage area in the upper right corner about 1'w x 6"h x 1'd. There's not much room in there. I haven't had the opportunity to remove the panels and look around. But I was curious about blade valve replacement. Now I understand.
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on August 12, 2021, 06:12:20 pm
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on August 12, 2021, 06:12:20 pm
I was curious about blade valve replacement. Now I understand.
https://rvtipoftheday.com/rv-repair/how-to-replace-rv-waste-dump-valve/
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on August 12, 2021, 07:02:24 pm
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on August 12, 2021, 07:02:24 pm
Changing the blade valve and lubing the cable was the primary question. Doesn't matter what coach, but relevant as long as the valves and cables are the same.
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: Michelle on August 12, 2021, 10:15:18 pm
Post by: Michelle on August 12, 2021, 10:15:18 pm
Res777 says (Reply #51) that he has a "single valve" (and I would assume a single holding tank) so yes, quite a bit different.
So, yeah, third valve doesn't apply in that case ;)
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: Lonnie Sherri Williamson on April 13, 2023, 06:45:05 pm
Post by: Lonnie Sherri Williamson on April 13, 2023, 06:45:05 pm
Inspired by Rogers really nice work and post 8 years ago, I'm updating my wet bay too. Thanks Roger for the post and the detailed description along with parts list. Lonnie
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: Lonnie Sherri Williamson on April 13, 2023, 08:20:16 pm
Post by: Lonnie Sherri Williamson on April 13, 2023, 08:20:16 pm
How cool to be able to help others. We just don't realize how our time & good deeds can carry forward.
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: Jeff & Sandy on April 14, 2023, 10:55:35 am
Post by: Jeff & Sandy on April 14, 2023, 10:55:35 am
Off topic posts removed by Moderator Jeff.
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: dsd on April 14, 2023, 01:06:53 pm
Post by: dsd on April 14, 2023, 01:06:53 pm
Inspired by Rogers really nice work and post 8 years ago, I'm updating my wet bay too. Thanks Roger for the post and the detailed description along with parts list. Lonnie
Scott
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: Lonnie Sherri Williamson on April 15, 2023, 07:44:53 pm
Post by: Lonnie Sherri Williamson on April 15, 2023, 07:44:53 pm
No slide on our coach Scott and good thing because I'm pushing double the 120. I just had a valve cable issue and decided to just replace it all along with adding the the 3rd valve and couldn't resist the stainless panels. I can't take credit for the nice cut outs. I went to a local sheet metal shop and they used their cnc plasma table. I hope to have everything back in place mid next week if time allows. Thanks for the feedback.
Title: Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)
Post by: dsd on April 16, 2023, 11:30:54 am
Post by: dsd on April 16, 2023, 11:30:54 am
That's cheating. I like it but I seem to never go down the easy path. All I could think of was all time spent cutting by hand. I really like the third valve and use it every single time I dump. I always run my potable water into the gray tank before getting home. Dump the black and back fill with the extra gray tank. Usually get three back flushes on the black tank. Always crystal clear on the last backflushes. I never added a black tank cleaning spray tube as others have but seems to be clean and odor free. I did recently change all my air admittance valves inside do to odor oddly during dump events inside. Resolved issue. I always dry out the potable water system during extended storage periods. Nevertheless your panels look great. You should post a link to the sheetmetal shop, others may want to do what you did and since its loaded in there programming it would be simple for them to build panels for others and ship.
Scott
Scott