We need to replace our A/C/heat pumps. We had planned to use the Atwood Air Commands, but were concerned about the report that the motor is running 24/7. Also frustrating was the need to have new thermostats for both units.
I started looking for a unit that might be compatible with our old DuoTherms (15 K in the front and 13.5 K in the rear) and even use our Comfort Control Center (5-button). The one I have at the top of my list now is the Dometic Brisk II, which is an upgrade from their Brisk Air units. talked to a couple of dealers today, but they said they would have to talk to Dometic about compatibility with the CCC, or if I would have to upgrade to the CCC2. They also did not know about the ability to use my existing wiring.
I know that some of you have upgraded to the Brisk Air or Brisk II units. I would like to find out some things from this brain trust:
1. Did you have to add any new wiring or was your existing wiring compatible?
2. Were you able to use the 5-button CCC to control the new units?
3. Did you have to make any changes to your existing roof hole, or was it essentially remove old and mount new unit?
4. Are the Brisk 2's noticeably quieter than the old DuoTherms?
5. If you needed to replace your existing air conditioner this month, what model(s) would be at the top of your list?
6. Did you, or would you, (try to) make the change yourself?
7. When we were planning on the Air Commands, we planned to use two 15 K units, since their 13.5 K units did not have heat pumps. Is there any benefit to replacing our 13.5 K unit with a 15 K unit?
8. Is there any reason to install heat pump units? Using the CCC, you either select Cool, Heat Pump, or Furnace/Heat. If it gets too cold to run the A/C, you are going to have to change the Mode on the CCC to either Heat Pump or Furnace, depending on the forcasted temperatures. Does the heat pump provide enough benefit to offset the increased complexity (assume cost difference is not much of a factor).
Answers to these questions will help in our decision process. Remember, for the most part, I am asking for your opinions and impressions. I hold all of you harmless and welcome any suggestions you might have.
We are getting ready for our first extended RV travel experience and Jean is insisting on having two working air conditioners. She would really like for them to be significantly quieter than our old ones.
Thank you,
Trent
This, I believe, is a
universal desire among RV dwellers. I will follow your search with interest - although ours still work well (knock on wood).
Trent,
Sitting under my much quieter Atwood 15k btu heat pump right now. The inside motor runs 24/7 as does all air handlers in every building I have been in to the best of my knowledge. I prefer the inside motor to always run to keep the air circulating and keeping the temp uniform through out the space.
On my EMS, I see 1 amp for the inside fan motor and 11 amps when the outside motor and compressor are on also. I put a 15k btu heat pump in bedroom and it works equally great there too. Both A/Cs are on 24/7 giving us a really comfortable quiet coach.
I like the remote control with which I can sit in my easy chair and control all functions of the A/C. I like the really cold air they create when the compressor is running that I can hardly hear. I like the Auto mode that chooses heat or cool as needed to meet set point. I like the Dry mode that runs the compressor for a brief period periodically to dehumidify the air when outside and inside temps are nearly the same but it is humid outside. I like the top compressor mount to constrain compressor movement going down the road. I like the built-in ducting that turns the air stream from down to horizontal rather than letting it slam into the ceiling unit and then head out horizontally. As I am a non-ducted unit, I like the retracting lanyard that keeps the thermostat control cable out of the way and the lanyard that suspends the ceiling unit so my hands are free to connect or disconnect the control cable as needed. And the ability to remove the filters for cleaning without having to remove the ceiling unit.
Did I say how much quieter the A/C is and that everyone visiting my coach comments on how much quieter they are than their A/Cs.
My air conditioners went into the same holes in 30 minutes each since I had a fork lift to get the new one up and the old one down. They are $1338 total cost from the 12Volt Store, Model 150026 with ceiling unit and new roof gasket.
I am the third Foretravel I know of that have these A/Cs. One is a GranVilla owned by a retired RV fixit friend that has install countless Dometic and Colemen A/Cs in his career. The other two owners like myself, removed operating A/Cs to enjoy the quiet operation of the Atwoods. I have a friend that has listened to mine and is ordering 3 for his Prevost.
Lastly, the most important reason to use these A/Cs is -- my wife no longer complains about how loud the blasted A/Cs are. Do what makes you happy -- I certainly did.
Trent, why are you replacing both units. I was told by the dealer that the newer A/C's and heat pumps last only about 7 years. My old ones were 19 and 20 years old before they went out. Also, Berndt in NAC can repair the old ones in most cases for considerably less than a replacement. Your pretty close to NAC,
We replaced our back A/C in 2012 and the front in 2013 with a Dometic heat pump before we learned about Berndt. We chose the Penguin to keep a lower profile. I had to purchase a new CCC for each. The CCC used in 2013 was a five button and not compatible with the one in 2014. I had to add a 12V source for each CCC since my coach is a 93 and the old thermostats we not powered. If you have a 5 button, yours is already wired with 12V.
If you are in good physical health, can handle the weight of the unit and you are comfortable with wiring you should have no problem installing the units yourself. The biggest problem is getting the new ones on the roof and the old ones back to earth. If you have ducted air, I can't help much with installation other than to say that the hole is the same. My biggest issue was this the air distribution box. I was told I had to buy a new one for each new unit so there was and additional $150 for each air box for each unit and $125 for each additional new CCC. Both new units were noisier than the original A/C units. This has been discussed many times on the forum. It seems that the new refrigerant requires a higher level of air flow to equal the old R12 Freon. I was able to modify the units to use my original air distribution boxes. The old ones were quieter than the new ones. NOTE: I found out that there is a silencer kit available from Dometic for around $20. I ordered two of them but haven't installed them yet. They contain additional bushings and grommets so all they do is reduce vibration.
Be sure to order a good quality foam seal for the roof. Get it from Dometic or Foretravel. The cheaper ones like the one I got from eBay don't have the same density and can tear easier during installation. The also will collapse over time.
We are very glad we ordered the heat pump for the front replacement because we stay many places monthly and pay for our electricity. But the heat pump doesn't work once the outside temps get close to freezing. I recommend keeping the rear A/C with a heat strip for those colder nights when you don't want to use the furnace or a ceramic heater.
Rudy,
Your bottom line is what is most important. I have learned that if I can keep my DW happy, then we will all be happy!
Thank you for all the details concerning the operation of your Atwoods. Now I am back in the Atwood camp. I was not aware of the Auto feature that selects between the cool and heat pump as the climate dictates. The information you provided is priceless. It is so hard to get real unbiased feedback from other owners.
I do have a couple of questions concerning wiring. I expect that all the wiring I need for the front unit already exists between the A/C and the 5-button Comfort Control Center. Did you have to add anything else for that unit? I know that I will have to route some control wiring from the rear unit (next to the shower) to the bedroom wall; that should be pretty straight forward. Is the 12-volt wiring that goes to the rear unit already sufficient, or will I have to add that also?
Thanks for being an "early adopter" and sharing your experience. One of the great things about Foreforms is the ability to learn from others. This is especially important for those of us that are embarking in our first RV ownership, with so much to learn.
Trent AND Jean
Kent,
The back unit has not worked since we bought our Foretravel last August. The front unit works, but is extremely noisy. If it were my man-cave, it would not need to be replaced (yet). We have been planning to replace them with the new Atwoods since they were first mentioned on Foreforms.
The recent report about (one of) the motors running 24/7 caused us to reconsider that path. After Rudy's detailed (happy) owner review, we are back on that bandwagon.
I talked to the Service man at Camperland. They are willing to install the Atwoods as if they came through their dock instead of our RV basement. Their Parts manager says that we can purchase them (with freight) from PPL, cheaper than they can buy them from their distributor. They will give us a 90-day warranty on the installation and honor the Atwood warranty after that. At the moment, their schedule is about two weeks out.
Based on early responses from my message, that is our intent.
Thank you for your detailed response. I am sure that your mention of Dometic's silencer kit will be of interest to many members.
Trent
Check "my12voltstore". They have the 15K unit with ceiling unit included for $639.00 . This is where both Rudy and I ordered ours. Mine came in two days later by Fedx--$79 shipping cost. My 12volt store is very easy to work with.
Like Rudy, I am extremely satisfied with my units. They work great and are extremely quiet. Another nice feature is that the ceiling unit is the same size as the old dometic ceiling unit so it covers the "shadow".
Trent,
The thermostat for Non-Ducted units is in the ceiling unit. So, no external control thermostat is needed or used. The remote control allows control from my easy chair.
A quick call to Atwood on Monday would find out how Ducted units are controlled as I did not ask that question when I researched my install and the other two Foretravels I saw are NonDucted also so no info on Ducted was shown to myself.
The only wires I needed were the existing 120 vac romex that powered the old A/Cs. No 12 vdc power is needed. So remove wire nuts from 120 vac wires, R&R A/Cs, connect wires with wire nuts and turn on was all I did. My Dometic wall mounted thermostats have been abandoned in place long ago.
Carolyn has a decorative plate she wanted to mount on a wall. We removed the Dometic front thermostat and placed the plate there.
The $1338 total cost was everything, tax (none), shipping and install (my labor). Like Kemah John, mine arrived in two days. Kemah John got me going and was kind to show his to me. Thanks again John for helping me get DW happy.
For those of us with older analog thermostats which include no ducts ('96 and earlier), I see the Atwood as the best option today. Remote control with no real additional work, quiet and cold.
I just discovered that the Coleman Mach 8 is also a two-motor design. It is made just up the road from me, in Wichita, KS.
I think that Foretravel is now putting Colemans in their new units, but do not know which model. (Anyone here know?)
Any Fofumers have any knowledge/experience about Coleman Mach 8 (low profile, 8" tall) Air Conditioning/heat pump units?
Thanks,
Trent
(My wagon must be tipping again) :)
Trent,
I like Coleman vs Dometic. I have had them (not the one you mentioned) on my coach for 4 years. Replaced motors every 18 months and had just done so when I switched to Atwood. Replaced start capacitors in each one once in 4 years. Worked fine just much louder than Atwood. If no Atwood available, I would still have them.
Howdy Rudy,
I too, am interested in the Atwood. I've been following/bookmarking your posts on the great features of these units. As you know, I have a '00 U320 with Aqua-Hot (which you keep serviced). The Comfort Control also handles the zone heating. Any thoughts/advice/opinions on how to control the zone heating after installing the Atwoods? I actually like the idea, that the A/Cs are "stand-alone" units and not tied to the CC.
Thanks for your help, Dave A
Trent
I still have the original Dometics on my 2001 U 270- running fine right now. I had the motor replaced in the rear unit about 5 years ago. Use them when I need to as my dash air does not work at all. I did a good cleaning of coils, replaced filters, etc this past winter.
If you can fix them rather than replace them- it is money well spent in my opinion. Check with Bernd to see if he can fix them at a reasonable cost and that you can expect to get good service out of them.
Best of luck.
Ted
Before you buy a new front A/C, remove the air distribution box on the ceiling by taking off the two grills. I think there are six screws in total to remove the air box, then look for three 7/16" bolts. These three bolts keep the roof unit tight to the roof. These bolts need to be tight to keep the roof unit from vibrating. It is also likely that the foam seal between the roof unit and the coach's roof has collapsed. You might get by with nothing more than a $30 seal kit.
By the way the Penguin II heat pump can also be set for automatic where the heat pump or the A/C comes on as needed but the air handling motor only stays on when it needed.
430
Do your roof a/c work? Often the motor could use a little oil, and the evaporator coil can be VERY dirty preventing air movement. Your original roof air's will probably run 20 years or more if cleaned out. There is some details on cleaning, which entails removing roof plastic cover, removing the large angled metal cover over the evap coil and cleaning off the stuff stuck to the intake side. This side of the coil may be seen from looking up above the ceiling filter.
Even though our roof air's work fine, we replaced the two tall capacitors and a small resistor in each roof unit as a preventative. Maintenance may keep things running.
Dave,
Your existing controls would command the Aqua Hot even if it were no longer used to command A/Cs. I do not know how Atwood commands Ducted units so I have no specific info. I am sure there is a way or Atwood would not be offering Ducted units.
Ted,
Thanks for the suggestion. We may have already taken too long to close that barn door. Jean really looks forward to the new and quieter A/C's. We are going to the FMCA rally in Madison. I noticed that Atwood was going to be one of the exhibitors. Unfortunately, she wants the new A/C's *before* the trip. We will visit HWH and relatives in Minneapolis on the way.
BTW, I have seen many recommendations for Bernd and several sad (really, really sad) stories about FOT experiences. I have always got quick responses from James, but I have never yet had service performed there. I need some, but their scheduling seems too booked.
Trent
Kent,
I like the way you think.
Thank you very much for the detailed instructions and tips. Being our first RV, I had not thought of things like tightening attachment bolts or replacing the foam seal. Is there anything on the bottom of the unit to hold onto to raise it high enough to replace the gasket? I have a couple of those long blue jacks that are sold as cargo stops for trucks. 80 pounds would be a little heavy for one, but maybe not for both. especially if I can stand on a platform and push up, too.
I wouldn't try to do that for installation, but it might work for raising the unit in place far enough to replace the gasket. Hope springs eternal. :)
None of this would be as important if the dash air worked. I am pretty sure it worked when we first bought our RV, but quit before we got home. Later I discovered the belt was missing along with small rubbery black gunk spread around the ceiling. I have a new Gates Green Stripe to replace it. Guess it is better to find out the compressor is frozen (it does not appear to be) at home than out on the road. It is on the ever-lengthening list of things I want/need to do before we head out.
Are we having fun, or what?
Trent
Check your condenser fan too. They have a habit of shorting out from road grime then the compressor heats up and the limit switch kills it.
Do check the specs on those bolts before tightening, if they're the ones I'm thinking of. I don't have our Penguin II instructions here and I can't recall what the maximum torque spec'd is. I do recall that there is a warning on the installation instructions that if you overtighten you can deform the A/C base and cause a leak. It's probably a good idea to watch the gasket as you tighten to make sure it stays an even thickness all around.
The A/C gasket is foam rubber. They are normally compressed to 1/2 their original height. Overtightening almost invariably leads to leaks, as does being over-loose.
Since this thread is all over the place, and the resident A/C "experts" are watching, I would like to ask about a "dripping water" problem. Our coach has the 2 original Penguin units, which are still cooling great. We have had zero problems with them up to our current trip. It's been very hot/humid and we are running both units almost continually. The front unit is functioning perfectly. The rear unit suddenly started draining/dripping water inside the coach. If I remove the inside filters, I can see the water running down various bolts and parts, depending on the attitude of the coach. Tilting the coach side to side or front to back doesn't stop the water flow, but changes from what point it drips. I went topside, took the shroud off, and removed the metal cover over the evaporator. The evaporator coils are clean, and the drain holes in the little styrofoam "pan" under the evaporator are open. The water isn't coming from the evaporator - as the unit runs it is accumulating in the pan under the compressor area, then finding it's way inside the coach (somehow).
I didn't (yet) have time to pull the covers off the front unit to compare operation. Anybody have any brilliant ideas why this one unit has suddenly decided to "take a leak" on our bed?
Chuck,
Sounds like a clogged condensate drain.
There are two completely different sources of "water in the coach" from the A/C's. One is the seal to the roof. If it leaks when it rains, A/C not running, that is the source. The other source is condensation from the evaporator not being able to work its way to the roof (earlier models) or condensate drain late models.
Best advice is to buy some A/C evaporator (not condenser) cleaner. From the roof, access the evaporator-- lots of little screws if the OE A/C. Use an old beach towel or something like that to block the hole to the coach interior/ have someone hold an empty Rubbermade tub under the A/C inside the coach. Clean the evaporator and drain passages. You will probably be shocked at how dirty the evaporator is!
Thanx Brett.
What puzzles me is that the water doesn't seem to be coming from the evaporator- it and the tray under it are dry. The condensate water is accumulating in the metal pan under the compressor area, but I can't see exactly where it is coming from. I will certainly try the evaporator cleaner (when we get home), but I suspect there is another problem - just don't know what.
Remember, I don't have a ducted A/C unit so the inside part of yours may be different. To change the foam seal no need for jacks, simply remove the air box as described in my previous post and remove the three 8" bolts while having someone help hold up the metal ceiling plate. Unhook both wiring looms and carefully detach the accordion connector and set the entire ceiling unit aside. Replacement accordion ducts are no longer available so be careful how you handle the old one. You may not even have the duct on your newer unit but I mention this for others who may wish to follow this procedure.
Next get up on the roof and pick up the roof unit. It's somewhere around 100#. Lean the roof unit up on its sheet metal side so you can get to the old gasket. It will take some elbow grease, a plastic scraper, some denatured alcohol and time to remove and clean the surface for the application of the new seal. You can apply the seal, its self adhesive, either on the base of the A/C unit or on the roof. I've seen it done both ways. I suggest putting it on the roof. Once the seal is in place flip the roof unit back down and carefully try to get it centered over the hole then go back inside the coach and maneuver the roof unit until the attaching bolt holes will line up with the inside metal plate. This procedure isn't real easy. It takes time and is much easier if you are tall or get a little stool to stand on.
This is also a great time to thoroughly clean the roof unit.
My bet it just tightening the bolts will make a huge difference. Regarding how tight, as Brent said 1/2 the thickness on a new seal or just until you feel moderate resistance on the 1/8" ratchet.
After watching this thread I finally bought (2) 15000 BTU Atwood ducted Air Command units to replace my noisy and marginal Dometic units. Install was not bad, used a chain fall to get them on the roof. They work great with separate thermostats. The front Thermostat replaced the CC thermostat unit and Runs cooling, heat pump and the Atwood Furnace with no problem. I spliced the cable ends with new cable ends to the old CC cable ends and it works perfect without having to pull new cable. Had to pull cables on rear unit for 12 volt Plus , 12 volt neg, and the thermostat cable to the rear television cabinet and mounted thermostat to the outside of television cabinet. I am very please with the way they work and they are very quiet. Remote controls also work great. Total cost from my12volt store was $1489.28 delivered to my door in Texas in three days from purchase date.
Bill ^.^d ^.^d
Bill,
You did better than I did. When I looked at eBay, my12volt store only had one 15028 rooftop units listed for $587.99 + $99.99 for shipping. He had none of the 15022 ceiling units listed. I sent him a "question to seller" and told him I wanted two of each and asked him if he had them. I did not hear from him right away, so I went with PPL. (BTW, I did get an eBay message from my12volt store, giving me a phone number; I called to let him know I no longer needed the units.)
The PPL charge was $568 for the ducted rooftop and $95 for the ducted ceiling unit. Total was $1586, including $260 for freight. I placed the order late Monday afternoon. Tuesday morning, I got an email from PPL with tracking information. The two rooftop units and one ceiling unit arrived Wednesday and the other ceiling unit Thursday, via FedEx! I had assumed "freight" meant a couple of weeks.
I checked with a local RV dealer, and scheduled the earliest appointment for installation, on 7/8/15. I told him I may try to install them myself and would call him if I needed to cancel the appointment. Now that the rains seem to have stopped, I will take a large load of scrap lumber to the dump. Then I will move the scaffolding (/wood rack) to the RV and get serious about our travel preparations. I think with the scaffolding and a very long ladder (/ramp) I can get the units to the roof. What I am able to do after that remains to be seen, but I am optimistic.
I had thought I would be the first one to report on a ducted Atwood Air Command installation,, but you beat me to it. I sure like your report, though. I am going to look at putting the rear thermostat where the existing remote temperature sensor is, but I will leave the wiring in place.
Thanks,
Trent
We went with Atwood's non-ducted 15k unit to replace the 2008 Penquin (who knew Penguins could roar?) MOT provided the unit, muscle and talent. Very straight-forward swap. My unit shipped w/o remote control--but I'm headed back to Nac tomorrow for a facelift at Xtreme and remote/base pickup at MOT.
Two months with the Atwood in the summer rains and sunshine: nice unit, very quiet and comfortable. I plan to swap out the old bedroom unit with another Atwood soon. Great experience so far! P
Older thread but I figured I would check on the reviews of you guys who installed your Atwood AC... Still happy?
ANyone actually figure out the ducted? Totally? Does the ducted unit come with the remote? or do you have to run a separate wire to add their thermostat? IS the remote the thermostat? If you were to replace both front and rear units what needs to be done to get them to work ? By thermostat or remote or both?
Had a slight misshap with mine and board is bad and I can not find a replacement with the same number anywhere online now..
Questions questions..
Second part of the equation... any penguin 2 users...Happy ? Kinda like the low profile as it looks nicer ... I am stuck...
Furrion CHILL 15.5K Rooftop Air Conditioner - Black – furrion-global (https://furrion.com/products/15-5k-rooftop-air-conditioner-black)
Anyone see or hear of this one?
David, if the screw compressors are as good as screw air compressors they should wear very good with no vibration
Keep us posted on what you decide ----inquireing minds!
Chris
David, I can not see the pretty low profile from inside where I am a bunch. But I can hear the low noise level especially in bed at night all the time. I choose the Attwood for me and am most pleased.
All the best as you decide what works for you.
David, I talked today to one of my RV fixit guys who said the Furrion is the latest and greatest A/C on the market. Their ad claims the dual motor tech is what makes it quieter. Well, my Attwood dual motor is living proof they are quieter.
It looks like it's good,still isn't out yet so the RV guy doesn't know any more or less then we do.
Anyone have a ducted atwood? Big questions are on the thermostat really.. I like the remote function..
Thinking of removing the fan in the bedroom and adding a smaller unit their and having the thermostat in the living room run both A/C from there so when its real hot I can use the bedroom one on its own
Just thinking at this point but I really need to figure out the other 2 units.
DavidS,
I am not sure what you have asked in your two recent messages about the Atwood Air Command air conditioner/heat pump systems. They each have their own thermostats and their own remotes. I would not think you could combine the thermostats, because each unit's sensor could be sensing different temperatures at each unit. I don't know if the system will be able to resolve those differences and sent the proper commands.
If this does not answer your questions, please try rewording your question.
Hope this helps,
Trent
Still happy with my 2 Atwood, non ducted, 15000 btu units.
Does 1 thermostat run both ac? Are the 2 ac separate and have there own thermostat?
Did you feel better cooling after the install? Any noticeable difference at the ducts?
How is the Aquahot controlled?
I thought I had asked the same question,,,
On a DUCTED unit, how is the Aqua Hot turned on ? Perhaps you will get a response.
Working on it :))
Thinking maybe I keep the old 5 button? everything else might be separate?
I do not have ducted units.
each A/C unit has its own thermostat, flip down control panel, and wireless remote.
Both units cool great, are relatively quite, and heat well.
No regrets.
How hard is it to fish the thermostat wire to the Dometic thermostat location? Using the atwood.. Would I need to add another thermostat to the bedroom also? Its ducted so one would assume it would need its own thermostat too? Atwood doesnt have dual zone?
Apx 7 months ago I replaced my Dometic ACs with Atwood Heat pumps. I ordered two Atwood 15000 BTU ducted heat pumps and the ducted thermostat & air returns.
Yes the Atwood's have a higher profile but I'm more interested in quality, performance, & quietness. Upon their delivery I was really impressed with the design & quality. I installed these in a 2006 Nimbus. Sadly the Dometic Comfort Zone Thermostat & com cable will not work on the Atwood's. You have to replace the Dometic thermostat with the Atwood. Atwood does provides plenty of com cable to reach the new thermostat location. The remote control that comes with the Atwood works through the Atwood thermostat. In my coach the old living room Dometic com cable ran from the front AC inside a small plastic pipe to the front of the coach to behind the tv. It then was routed to the drivers side of the coach, down the side through the cabinets to the old thermostat location. It looks like a telephone cable. To run the new Atwood cable I had to remove the new com cable connector end as it was to wide to go through the plastic pipe. I then reattached the connector, & connected it to the Atwood thermostat. The two connectors on the Atwood cable are different so be sure to remove the right connector.
The old Dometic Comfort Zone thermostat would control two zones, Living Room & Bed Room. There is a second Dometic com cable connecting both Dometic ACs. This cable runs through a small plastic pipe connecting the front AC to the back AC. This is how the Dometic thermostat communicated with the rear AC & rear furnace (AqhaHot). The wires for the bed room AqhaHot are located in the bedroom AC box in the ceiling. The Atwood thermostat will only control one Zone so you will need a 2nd thermostat for the BR. You will also need to run a 12volt wire (+&-) connection to the bedroom AC box. Dometic had used their com cable to supply voltage to the rear AC from the front AC. It doesn't matter what 12v wire you tap into. I ran a wire to the front AC 12v through the center plastic pipe to the rear AC.
The LR thermostat was the easiest to install as I followed the old Dometic com cable routing. The Living room AC hooks into a 12 volt Pos & Neg battery connection, a Pos & Neg furnace or Aqua Hot connection, & of course a 120 volt connection. All these connections are already available in the Living Room AC box location.
The Bed Room Aqua Hot / furnace connections are already in the BR AC box as is the 120v. The hardest part in the BR install was running the Atwood thermostat cable to the location I wanted. I used the previous old Dometic Comfort Zone temperature sensor location to install the Atwood thermostat control.
Now all I can say is Wow!!! Unbelievably Quite
Did you notice better cooling? More air flow at the vents?
Perfect explanation .. I might attempt this.. Think these will be a good update to the old ones I have now.. Desert heat at 110 plus ... needs all the help it can get to cool.
I think I will, too. Please be sure to post any info/pics/You Tube video of your install. Where will you get 12v for the back unit? How will you get the units up on top? dick told me he sold his old units on Craigslist!!
What needs done with the aquahot? How is it connected if the ac is removed? How will it communicate after the ac is removed
David,
STILL don't know the answer to that!!??? Our existing system has BOTH heat strip AND AH heating. IF you find out, please share the answer.
Well the Atwood top units weigh apx. 85 lbs. I was lucky enough to borrow a tractor with a front end loader to lift the new units & lower the old units. Otherwise you have to be pretty inventive. They fit on top exactly like the old units did. Before installing the Atwood's I made sure the AC box in the roof was sealed (silicone) to keep any water from making its way under the fiberglass roofing which would cause Delam. I then used foil tape around the opening to make it look pretty.
The front AC coach wiring (located in the front AC roof box) also has a 12v wire that was wired into the old AC unit. The rear AC roof box does not have a 12v wire. Thats because the old rear AC unit was connected to the old front AC unit via a com cable. It got is 12v power through the com cable from the old front AC. The Atwood's are a stand alone AC unit. They do not connect or talk to one another. Therefore the rear Atwood needs a 12v connection. I ran a 12v wire from the front AC 12v connection to the rear AC box.
The Aquahot (furnace) wires are already located with the coach wiring in the front & rear AC box. At least mine were. I just wired them to the Atwood AC wiring (2 blue wires labeled furnace). To use the AqhaHot for heat you must press the furnace button. Otherwise you are using the heat pump for heat.
Running the rear thermostat cable took some work as I had to make a path to where I wanted the thermostat to be located.
Running the thermostat cable from the front AC to the old thermostat location took a little work but it was not to bad. Just follow the route of the old cable. You have to take the thermostat connector off one end of the Atwood cable to get the cable
small enough to follow the path of the old cable. Make sure to pick the right connector end as they are different.
ATWOOD AC-1361 INSTALLATION & SERVICE MANUAL Pdf Download. (https://www.manualslib.com/manual/882947/Atwood-Ac-1361.html)
The above link is for the Atwood AC ducted unit service & trouble shooting Manuel.
Found a board for mine finally.. Will tackle this after memorial weekend sometime.
This thread is extremely timely, as our front unit died this morning. What stands out (either good or bad) for our 1993 coach? Also, any suggestions for in installer? We're between Emporia and Topeka, KS.
David getting the old unit off and the new unit on is the hardest part, old unit is probably 120 lbs. Does your coach have the controls on the ceiling unit? Four bolts and a couple of plug and play wires, and a clamp around the fabric supply drop. If you have a Coleman unit with big square ceiling assembly I would consider reusing it as you will see a shadow on the headliner material. Get a new gasket for the roof penetration.
If the Nitehawk can do it we all can do it.
The old unit is a Penguin. It has a heating element in it and a thermostat on the end of the cabinet by the door. When we were at FOT I asked about replacing the thermostat and was told that that was unobtanium. They thought they could cobble together something that might have worked, but weren't sure.
My first thought is to replace it with something similar (a/c and heating element), but I'm wondering whether a heat pump would be a better choice. Either way, it seems that the new units have all of the controls on the unit, so we'll have to figure out something to cover the hole.
David, an opinion on heat pump roof air conditioners. . .
Inexpensive devices can heat a coach, like Walmart heaters
Only roof air can cool coach, so why 'wear it out' for heating
Heat rises making heat sources from ceiling less desirable
Air conditioner compressors & coils are a completely sealed unit with no external moving parts
Heat pumps introduce a mechanical Reversing Valve in the compressor lines and a fail-point not in air conditioners
Heat pumps may not work very well at very low outside temps, when they are really needed
On top of these 'disadvantages' heat pumps cost more
One of the advantages of heat pumps. They produce over 12000 btu's of heat on 15 amps. A typical resistance box heater will only produce 5100 btu's of heat on 15 amps. This comes into play if you are long term at a park and have to pay for your electricity. Of course rv heat pumps become ineffective below 45 f or so, then box heaters, or your aqua-hot/furnace will be necessary.
Heat Pump Systems | Department of Energy (https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/heat-and-cool/heat-pump-systems)
I would like to see the Decibel (DB) sound measurements of the old and new units. My "quiet" new Dometic Brisk II Air heat pumps generated just as much noise as the old Atwood Penguins. Anyone spending 2 CBs will naturally say it sounds quieter.
We all need to rethink RV air handling equipment noise and reduce noise by at least 20DB. See my noise measurement from my rig below. It says "Comfortable", but it it still sounds noisy.
DavidS
Found a board for mine finally.. Will tackle this after memorial weekend sometime.
What does " found a board " mean??
Post 53 & 54 both have valid points heat pumps are 3-4X more energy efficient in their prime zone above 45 degrees, but can short cycle the compressor at those temps. That being said any compressors start heat cycles in the motor windings. Roll the dice. So why does OPP who is a degreed HVAC engineer still have a 1993 ac condensing unit that was intentionally undersized outdoor unit. Because it provides superior comforr and reliability because its run times are quite long. There have been no economic advantages for that unit due to any technology period. Just hype produced by the marketing department. Still waiting on a unit with a decent head pressure controlled ecm motor and a composite fan with turbicles. End of rant.
Problem is trying to force that much air thru a tiny 14x14 opening Mr physics genenerates lots of turbulence and noise at those high velocities and fan static pressure. Once generated it's hard to attenuate. Reduce loads and airflows and the problem is reduced. Could be why the foremost/prevost uses may use 4 9k btuh units vs bigger units IDK
I would think 36000 btu's in a 45 ft dark painted coach would be cutting it close. Maybe super insulated?
Most other 45 ft coaches use a total of 54000 btu's or even 60000 btu's. Is there some new technology out there?
H3 is fiberglass not stainless. Less heat gain? Of course they painted it black.
Will 36000 btu's handle it, even if fiberglass? My fiberglass white roof 40 footer sometime struggles with 30000 btu's.
The control board
This is not the one but you can see what I mean
Dometic 5 Button Comfort Control Circuit Board 3109229.009 | eBay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dometic-5-Button-Comfort-Control-Circuit-Board-3109229-009-/163634109736?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c1#viTabs_0)
I did not know what they (foremost or prevost) hence the word "may" and "IDK". air conditioning efficiency/technology is only slightly better than it was in the 90's and most of my noise is due to the small roof hole and a fan trying to overcome that small hole. Working on a water source heat pump system project that is approximately 13,200,000 btuh
That would cool every Foretravel out there.
We have an appointment for Wednesday to get the a/c replaced with a new version of what was here. The new one doesn't use the thermostat that this one uses, so I'll have to come up with something to cover the hole in the cabinet. I may just leave the existing 'stat there, but it won't be connected to anything.
If it's a two wire or more tstat you may be able to still use it. Tell us what you got and what unit you purchased. It may not be rocket science after all.
The new units come with all of the controls on the a/c itself, so the old box isn't going to do anything. There is a ribbon cable that is maybe 8-10 wires that goes into the cabinet and from there (I assume) to the a/c.
OK, I'm sitting on the couch and have taken a decibel reading using an app on my iPad. Probably not as accurate as a professional meter but all I can say is my Atwood is much quieter than my previous penguin. Then again it was an older unit, possibly 12 years old. Anything older will not be as quiet as when it was new. It just got to when my old penguin was running I couldn't hear the tv unless I turned the volume way up. Now I don't have to.
There is a business opportunity for an HVAC engineer and entrepreneur to start a company making truly quiet heat pumps. The name of the company could be "10DB", the "Sound of Rustling Leaves". This company would partner with rig manufacturers. HVAC design would be integrated into the coach from it's inception:
- Large three foot diameter, continuously variable speed condenser and air blower fans
- Continuous, multiple large air distribution plenums with six inch ducts and outlets and returns. No sharp turns.
- Super sound proof compressor box with heat pipe dissipation.
- Boondocking compatible: Highest-efficiency of any RV HVAC system. has a low-power mode for solar / lithium batteries
I know, I live in a hypothetical world, but I can dream. ;)
With Thor and Forest River beating everyone down on price, could a quieter, as low in height, thru the same 14' X 14" hole, a/c unit be built, by a company that could survive? Probably not the best time to enter the rv market, or is it? I do not see that potential large enough to survive, or could it be? I believe only if you got away from that opening size by the rv mfgs and ac mfgs. The biggest reason I do not see success is in my post below.
When selling Newmar product, one of the primary selling points was the quiet heatpump and ac. Customers were disbelievers that the ac units were the same as their competitors (they are), just different construction, R19 or above roof, etc., in all models. This was true thru their entire line from the gas Baystar thru their diesels with the optional 15K heat pumps, all had their special duct and ceiling construction.
Newmar and Winnebago now have extremely quiet operating ac/heat pump systems. They do it by using existing units. They also have a return plenum running the entire length of the rv on one side and on the other side a complete supply plenum running the entire length. Newmar on their more expensive luxury rvs have also added a wood grill work that almost totally deadenns the sound. That grill work is held up by a piano hinge and magnet for easy flip down cleaning.
We got the new a/c installed today. As others have reported, it is a LOT louder than the old one. Two very young guys (looked like teenagers) took out the old one and installed the new one in about an hour. A/C was just over $1000, and labor was $150 (1.5 hours), so $1200 for all. It is really nice to be able to have the a/c running, shut the door, and not have to think about whether that would turn it off.
Tomorrow I'll pull the on-off switch from the working, but sometimes wonky, thermostat and put it on the other one, which will then control the bedroom a/c.
It would be much more helpful if you would mention the
brand and
model number when making statements about noise level or performance.
Dometic B57915.XX1CO 13,500 BTU. This is a/c only, no heat. That is an optional extra, but since the manual says it is to be used only for taking the chill off, we're not going to add it.