New to the Foretravel brand but coach hunting research has kept the name bubbling to the top. I am looking at the late '90 early '00 versions and am curious as to the handling and CCC of the U295 and U320 38' & 40' models with slide(s) but no tag. Been lurking on this awesome site for a couple of weeks and the knowledge base and willingness to help are most impressive - any help for a newbie (wannabe?) would be most appreciated. Also, what would be considered "high mileage" for a coach? I know these engines in trucks last well into the mid six figures but they are worked differently and I recognize the key is condition but any rule of thumb?
Thanks
David
Howdy David, If you have'nt ran across these, here's some link's to some great info on this wonderful site:
Foreforums Foretravel Wiki (https://wiki.foreforums.com/doku.php?id=start)
Foretravel Specifications, Floor Plans, Photos & Brochures by Year (https://wiki.foreforums.com/doku.php?id=through_the_years:specs)
Hopefully what you need is in on these sites.
Good Luck, Dave A
Dave's pointed you to the web site that will give you all the data on CCC, etc. That said, everything about a Foretravel is the same quality whether it has a tag axle or not. The integrity of the proprietary chassis is second to none tag, no tag, slide, no slide. That goes for a 1990 or a 2015 coach. The difference is obviously new technology and third party equipment and materials available during engineering design. Good luck in your research and please ask anything you wish about Foretravels.
I have attached a pdf file showing the results of having my coach weighed last year. It is a non-tag 2003 U295 with a single slide.
You will note that I have 2280 pounds of unused carrying capacity, this with all the tanks nearly full, driver and passenger, and fully loaded. I have all the bays and interior spaces loaded for bear, and note that a 38' single slide with no tag has lots more bay storage than larger tag-axle coaches.
So I see no issues with carrying capacity, either in pounds or in cubic feet.
As for handling, I cannot say as I have not driven a tag-axle Foretravel. However, this coach, with eight wide-set airbags and low center of gravity is the best handling coach i have driven. It drives with better than some SUVs I've owned. But, tag axle owners swear by them. The main handling plus from a tag axle is a longer wheel base.
Off topic but related to the prior post, I've driven coaches with and without tags. I have a 42' no slide with tag. I don't think it offers much other than peace of mind knowing that it would be incredibly difficult to overload the coach. The coach still wanders like any other rv when not driven in the center of the road. Still pushes for tractor trailers though probably a bit less.
Many highways may have grooves which you can not see from heavy truck traffic. This causes you to swobble at times and you wonder why your coach is wandering. Should be minimum but will make you move the steering wheel. Be aware of the surface smoothness as roads look good but are not as level as you think. This will affect how you think your coach is driving.
Thanks for all the helpful responses, especially Tom Lang's weight data sheet.
Still researching coaches but for now it appears that the tag (at least with Foretravel chassis) offers little upside and downside is loss of basement space and added maintenance. Still don't understand Foretravel's design reasoning for adding a tag if double slides in nontags do not cause weight issues.
David
It really depends on the coach. I recall one 40 foot non-tag U320, I think a 2002, that had very low CCC due to extensive use of tile and the engine being an ISM. Tom's is likely an ISL which is a much less weighty engine (somewhere around 600 lbs less according to my forum search).
Tom - the report you posted lists 3/4 fuel, 60% propane, Full fresh, but empty black and grey tanks. Is that an error on the report then?
Michelle, yes it an ISL400, and the report is correct. The black and gray tanks were empty and fuel and propane about as full as normal when traveling.
I've seen a similar coach to mine, 38' but having an added bedroom slide, ISM engine (U320), and tag axle. Yes, it does have added CCC, but the loss of bay storage and loss of access to batteries is more loss than I would want.
The tag went in for the bigger engine coaches. If you have an ism amd one slide the rear fully loaded for travel is about 21k. The tag gives great directional stability and about 7 k extra CCC.
The axle as rated properly but toll roads may turn you away over 20k. That was why everyone went to tags with the big coaches.
Exactly - that's why it depends on the specific coach. A 38' or 40' with ISM and a bedroom slide would have almost no CCC without a tag (might even be over on the rear axle, as John mentions). It's a tradeoff - do you want more storage underneath or additional slide/bigger engine? If the coach has a tag, there's a reason for it.
36' ended in 2002 for the U320s as I recall. 38' U320s replaced the 36 ft. Some of the 38's were made with tags. Other models may have had a 36' for more years.
A 40' with a tag has about the same basement space as a 36'. If we were ever going to go bigger it would likely be a 42' tag. By the time we are aready to do that we might be ready to be done.
Roger
U320 was made thru 05. A tag 42 has the same basement as a 40. You lose two feet with a tag but what you gain is much more CCC and a better driving coach.
Mine does not wander ever.
Checked the drag link and Pittman arm and my guru x Foretravel chassis mechanic preloaded the wheel bearings a tiny bit. No dead spot. No wander.
I on purpose will move closer to the center line with large trucks coming the other way just for fun.
Hardly moves.
40' no tag. No slide. Most storage in and out below 45' as far as I see.
I had no wander on my none tag coaches but in 40 mph cross winds it drives much better. Also I do not feel the trucks passing me.
To the drive axle I think you are at 252"? Adding the tag you would be longer than my 276"
The loss of storage is real, but tolerable. We came from a 32' winnebago adventurer which had loads of bin storage thanks to small tanks and clever storage ideas. The batteries were under the steps so they didn't take bin space. The generator was very small. It had under the bed storage whereas we don't now, etc. The overhead cabinets were much larger which contributed to a cramped feeling in that coach versus the airy feeing we have in ours now. Now we have a big engine which takes up bin storage on both sides, tag axle, battery bin, fuel tank takes up bin space, and some doof left a refrigerator/freezer in one of the bins :))
So as crazy as it sounds, we had trouble storage wise moving from a 32' winnebago to a 42' Foretravel.
Regarding the tag, isn't there some law in many states that stipulates a coach >40' must have a tag?
Mine wanders for sure. Bearing preload is good to me... I'd rather wander than smoke a bearing. Most likely there is play in one of the steering linkage joints as there is a tiny dead spot. That dead spot is the problem as the steering will wander back and forth. If you sit in the grooves in the center line it stays planted. I too don't move for trucks. Dead center and hte coach doesn't wander anywhere then. If I ride the white line that's when the wander starts.
It's much better than my gas coach since the wheel base seems to be the same width as the trucks. That thing would wander all over the place unless you were on fresh concrete highway.
Actually it would be very interesting and educational for people to drive each other's coaches.
While in Meccadoces Bernd is going to replace a steering arm on mine, claims it will get rid of my dead spot, now at about 1" of dead center free play. Part as I recall is $350 (ea x 2?) plus labor. 110k miles
If you ever find out which parts, let me know. I'm sure I can find a truck shop here which could do the same or perhaps even take it on myself.
will do
This and a few posts below are unrelated to the tag axle question and should be split into their own topic.
As John and Michelle mentioned above--our 38' tag model with the Living Room, bedroom slide and the Cummins ISM would
be over weight on the rear axle if it didn't have a tag.
I attached a weigh slip with the front and rear weights {drive & tag axle}
Coach was just fueled -- so full fuel, propane above 3/4, full fresh water empty gray & black tanks.
2 occupants--no pets and no toad.
Had all our "stuff" for a trip--so pretty much packed http://www.foreforums.com/smileys/default/smiley.gif
You can see the rear weight was over 24000 lbs--would have been 3000 lbs over on a non-tag model.
We could still carry an additional 5000+ lbs with out being over weight--I don't know where it would fit though.
When we are in Texas this fall I will get over to Livingston to have the individual wheels weighed.
Does the tag axle take some of the weight off the front axle ?
Looks like ours weighed about 800+ lbs less on the front axle than the non tag weigh slip show above.
Hope this helps in your decision--they are all fine coaches--just find the one that fits for you.
Jim