A Cautionary Tale
This is a story that could have turned out much worse than it did. Last fall we had out coach serviced at Cummins. They did all the normal coach service including checking the air filter. It was OK. A couple trips after service and then in the barn for the early part of the winter. Early January had us heading to Houston to visit Rudy and then to NAC for work at Xtreme. Three weeks there and a few more days in NAC and then west to Arizona and New Mexico. We were on the road for four months.
Somewhere along the way we got a significant amount of water into the sir intake, down the snorkel and into the air filter canister where the air filter got wet.
In four months we only drove in the rain one day, from Prescott to Parker, AZ on March 1. There was a really big storm, lots of rain and wind heading south from Prescott, same heading west towards Parker. The other way, north, west and then south had lots of snow, 20" at the Grand Canyon. The only other possibility was getting the coach washed in NAC.
Well, the result of this was that the air filter disintegrated and air filtration to the engine was compromised. It was Busted! After leaving Parker we went to the Grand Canyon. I noticed for the first time ever that there was some oil spatter on the Jeep and the back end of the coach. There was oil coming out of the breather tube hanging down on the right side of the ISM 450. I checked on the Forum, no hints about checking the air filter. No reason for me to check it but even if I had I think the damage had been done.
Another two thousand miles before we got home. No performance or mileage issues. I did have to add about four quarts of oil. This concerned me because the coach has never used any oil at all.
Back home I took the coach in for an oil change and second Transynd change in the transmission along with the normal filters. I asked them to check on why I was getting the oil blow by and the oil use.
The verdict was extreme engine wear. Dusted they said! Cummins said that severe engine wear is when blow by pressure is 10psi. Mine was measured at 28 psi. The engine ran but somehow I think I was lucky to get home.
So they started tearing the engine down to see how far the damage extended. Turbo, CAC, valves, cam, head, pistons, cylinder sleeves, crank shaft bearings and air compressor all had damage. The internal parts for the turbo were coated with dirt. I could stick my finger in to the openings and wipe out dirt. The turbo blades had significant erosion. The inside of the CAC had grit in it and hard caked on dirt as well as several bits of the air filter. The piston rings were worn to sharp edges. The cylinder liners normally have a cross hatched honing pattern, these were worn smooth, polished with vertical scoring. They were recommending a high level in-frame overhaul. What was I going to say, No? So I said do it. Not cheap. Not cheap at all.
The Service Manager at Cummins suggested I check with my insurance company since the damage was caused by rain and water intrusion which caused the air filter to fail and all of the collateral damage. Good suggestion.
My insurance company agreed after seeing weather reports from that area on that date and the damage reports and pictures from Cummins. Comprehensive covered it as flood damage, minus my deductible. And the oil change, coolant change and transmission service were required as part of the rebuild.
So it took Cummins about three weeks to get the parts and do the work. They even replaced the ECM because it had water damage and was intermittently misbehaving and the fuel pump. They reused the block, the valve cover, the oil pan and the crank shaft and the injectors. Pretty much everything else is new. They ran it on their break in program on the dyno (about 30 min). Steam cleaned everything and painted it to look like new.
I picked it up yesterday. The ECM reports to the VMSpc 0.9 hours and 2.7 miles. 35 miles to home, 9.5 mpg on a brand new motor. Amazing.
So my out of pocket will be about $750 after cash back on my credit card. I bought a spare air filter and I will check the installed one frequently, especially after rain. I got a deflector for the air intake from John Haygarth. That is going on tomorrow. I had several chats with the engine tech, Arvie, who has more than 30 years with Cummins. He was very deliberate about this job, he was the only one who worked on it. He saved every part to show me the wear. He was very careful inside the coach. Susan says it was very clean, even the outside of the coach. He commented every time I talked to him that with the Foretravel engine access it was great to work on. He showed me a couple other coaches that were not. He was especially impressed with how nice the coach looked after 15 years. They just don't see that level of care, pride of ownership and quality on other brands.
The bottom line is check your air filter more often than you are doing now especially after a rain event or a wash down. Get an air deflector. Reports are that they extend air filter life. And make sure your insurance coverage is adequate for the odd catastrophic events.
Cummins discounted everything by 10% for my Cummins Power Club membership and discounted parts and labor an additional $4000 or so. They treated me well and the rebuild has a 12 month, 100,000 mile warranty. It was still expensive. You don't want to have to do this.
Now confidence building starts over with our new engine.
Thanks to Dave M for his support, guidance and remote hand holding through this. It was very helpful.
Roger
Wow, I went thru a dust storm on the way east from AZ and when I got to civilization, I stopped at cummins and bought a new air filter. Never thought about water intrusion. Thanks for the heads up.
Truly a harrowing and amazing story! Sorry to read of such extensive damage to your coach, but happy to hear you have such a great Cummins dealer nearby! We all should be so lucky. Thank goodness for insurance!
Wow Roger I had no idea for you asking me to send you one other than someone had mentioned it to you.
Well firstly the reason I started making them and sending them out to people who wanted one came about because of a trip from Yuma to San Diego years ago while it was snowing and pouring down with rain for the whole trip. On arrival that night the coach was having a tough time to keep running so once stopped I started to do some snooping with engine.
I noticed a lot of water coming out of drain plug in canister and took cover off to find the filter absolutely soaking wet. I removed it and left it under coach while we slept that night. It was dry in the morning so after making sure all was as clean as possible I put it back and started the engine. It ran fine as usual. This proved to me that the intake on Foretravels (many years models) was in the worst place possible and what could I do to change that! It took me a couple of hours to come up with what you now have and since mine has been on my filter lasts many times longer and the last time I changed it (3 months ago) the condition of it was like new!!
I did talk to one of the Techs at FT in 2010 to find out from him what the avarage air filter looks like when they do a service and his comment was that "only the kitchen sink is missing " when he opens them up. I showed him the Deflector I made and installed and he agreed that it should stop the problem, period.
I have full confidence in them and the added bonus of keeping the Rear View camera cleaner for a long time made it a "no brainer"
Glad you had insurance coverage for most of it, now you can drive worry free as that episode will not happen again.
There is one other issue that this Deflector will not stop and that is when washing the coach "NEVER" spray the water into those openings and make sure if you use a Truck Wash place that you tell them to leave that area alone, and the reason why they cannot wash up there.
JohnH
All I can say is wow! I will be checking our air filter tomorrow... I can only imagine how it felt to learn about the extend of the damage, but I am very happy to hear about your positive outcome. Having a new engine will make it easier to swallow and it sounds like you came out of it as well as can be.
Don
Thanks for posting the cautionary tale - and it's very interesting to read that your insurance company covered it - would you share who you use? First hand experience with claims handling like this is so much more valuable than "who's got the lowest price".
For those interested in John Haygarth's deflector, here's one of his posts with description and photos rear air intake --on some models (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=12344.msg64356#msg64356)
We just added this mod to our "to do list" for this year.
Michelle, I have insurance with State Farm. I provided an internet story about the "epic" storm, photos, a description of the damage and the water infiltration from Cummins and an email from James Triana stating that this was most likely from an extrordinay rain event.
It was raining pretty hard coming south from Prescott with strong winds changing directions frequently as we drove theough the mountains.
I have looked for a gauge or something that woukd tell me if I had no restriction in the air intake system, a failed air filter, without success. The service guy at Cummins said OTR trucks sometimes have a pressure gauge for this. Something that squacks at high and low settings..
Roger
What a story! A damaged engine....one of my top worries. Sounds like it all worked out for you. I will definetly check my filter as we had a lot of rain in the Texas panhandle on our way to Taos.
Still hope to meet you on the road.
Whoa! What a story and another thanks for posting it. The first thing I did this morning was check my air filter. I do have a question, however. Wouldn't our filter restriction gauge indicate the water logged filter? All I know about the air filter is that it is actually more efficient when it is partially restricted. Of course, they aren't talking about a water event.
I want one of Haygarth's shields! John, you can make some beer money as everyone that reads Roger's post is going to want to buy or make one.
jor
After Roger's experience, demand might just outpace John's production capacity! :o I was the beneficiary of one of John's deflectors when we visited last September. I haven't installed it yet because I have to make a slight modification to the deflector because of my larger camera and because I wanted to coordinate it with my LED clearance light installation. However, this project has just risen several places on my project list. Back in January of 2014 when Xtreme was doing our headlight conversion etc., I chatted with Rance about integrating a fiberglass deflector over the area, which would include clearance lights, but time didn't permit any follow up. Still, that would be my ideal solution... maybe someday, but John's deflector definitely does the job, I may just have to live with a slight lower horizon when my camera is in the up position.
Don
Jon, I don't think you need one of John's shields. The air intake on my coach is in a different place. Its above and behind the side radiator near the passenger side, rear corner. I know that some of the 93, U300's and the older U300 coaches drew air down low by the front of the radiator but I think the later models intake is where mine is. I have never seen any sign of water intrusion. Water would have to travel up hill and about 6 feet to get to my filter.
When I had coach washed at Blue Beacon Thursday, they wouldn't even approach the rear of the coach until the engine was off. I didn't even think of water injection then. I will check filter more often, because we have torrential rains often I Houston.
I have the original filter as well as a representative piston and set of bearings. I checked the old filter. The filter that was in the coach was a Luber-Finer LAF9396. It appears that it was replaced just before we bought the coach in 2011 in California and was checked at two service points since we owned the coach, the last one late last summer.
I checked my Foretravel Service book. It just says to check the air filter minder and the air intake system every six months up to 48,000. I can not find any replacement schedule. Cummins recommends replacement based on restriction.
This Luber-Finer filter appears to be a lower priced replacement. It has no internal wire mesh, just on the outside. If it had and the filter material had gotten wet it may not have just blown in.
The original filters are Donaldson P149043 $52 at filterspro.com or Fleetguard AF 1838M
Cummins put in a WIX 42610 which has an internal wire mesh screen. $77 at Amazon.
I ordered a replacement Donaldson DBA5024 which is their high end line. $72 at filterspro.com.
All of these had some shipping $.
Roger
Roger,
Sorry to learn of your big problem.
Do you have a total dollar cost for all Cummins parts and labor? Could this be another place to put the water alarm we already have in MANY places in our coach? I could see putting the sensor wire up through the water drain hole and maybe bolting the sensor to the inside of the case or cable tie the sensor to the outside of the air filter element.
Water detector alarms (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=24048.msg188649#msg188649) Sorry we missed your July 4th weekend.
I also installed one of the JohnH deflectors about a year+ ago, inspecting the filter is amazing how much less dirt has accumulated in the filter & canister.
Thank you JohnH for the idea/concept & design. I did not paint it, just sprayed clear coat on it.
Our last air cleaner from FilterBarn.com was Fleetguard AF-1838, $58.55 no freight if total order is over $100. We change our air filter pro-actively at around 2 years We buy all of our filters from FilterBarn.
Kent is correct as GVs generally do not need any that I have seen so far.
The quote from Sedalange about the Truck Wash Blue Beacon is good, EXCEPT that even with engine off because of the location of the intake to actual filter this would not make much difference as water will still find it's way to can. As I said before NEVER spray water into that grille, just use a wet cloth or sponge to clean it.
Filters will dry out so the best time to check is AFTER driving in lots or rain. I would not take out filter though, just sqeeze the rubber plug under the can and see if any water comes out. If you do take end cover off to check do not remove the filter just inspect it then clean cover and refit.
Not only will this Deflector keep out water and dust it will save hundreds of Dollars over time in replacing a good filter. My last one was on 4 yrs and still good, but as I had removed it I decided to put a new one in anyway.
JohnH
Barry, All's well that end well, I hope.
A complete in-frame rebuild with all the stuff they put into mine was in the upper $20Ks. The discounts here helped the insurance company, a fact that I made sure they knew. The cost all depends on how soon you know you have a problem. I think mine went from OK to very bad news in about 4K miles. Dave M suggested there are probably other shops that could have done the same work for quite a bit less. But the coach was there and I don't know any better shops.
Good idea to check the little rubber water drain for water. A water detector in the snorkel just before it goes into the air filter canister sound like something to try. I am not sure is there is too much extra room in the canister itself.
The coach did get washed at Xtreme and at Precision Detail in NAC but it was long after that before we noticed anything amiss.
I have been looking at differential pressure gauges. When restriction is high they read higher. Time for a new filter. I have not found one that will alert me if the restriction is too low. From what I can see on the filter water got the bottom inch or two wet. The filter is tapered so it was only at one end. The part that blew open was where it was wet. I don't think I would have seen a significant increase in restriction from just that area being wet. A proper filter with an interior screen probably would have not failed at least not in this way. For what this cost I could put on a new filter once a month for the next 20 years.
My insurance person really went all out for me on this. They should I have been with the same agent for more than 40 years.
So now it is time to put this good/bad lesson behind us, put the air filter on my regular check list, pack up and hit the road again. Sand dunes (and a nice dog) are calling in Idaho. Then the beach on the Oregon coast. We will see as many of you as we can at the GrandVention with some questions for the Cummins folks.
A couple FT visitors before we are out of here as well. What fun!
Roger
Well, I'm headed out to check my air filter. I had our coach washed at Blue Beacon recently and they required that all engines (Detroit and generator) be off while they were working.
Kent and John,
The setup on my 95 GV is the same as the one on my 99 bus. Intake up with the rear view camera and air filter down low. Here's a couple of photos.
jor
I would say anyone that finds their air filter without an internal wire mesh should change it asap! Maybe a call to Luber- finer with part number to confirm that this is how it is manufactured?
Even with the added spoiler it still is going to ingest some amount of moisture.
I have watched my air canister expel a steady stream of water after running in hard rain, never had any performance issues though. Running a Wix filter for the past ten thousand miles still looks good.
From your explanation, I can see a value for water detector in the air intake. These water alarms have a long thin sensor wire that could be put in the behind rear camera space, accessible from over bed cabinet, with alarm inside bedroom.
You guys go west and have lots of fun with your well running coach. Catch you on the road somewhere. . .
Thanks for sharing with us all so we can be aware of what could happen.
By the way, since a shot of water into the air intake can be a problem, I realize that in the 15 years we have owned our coach no one but us has washed our coach. And Cindy has never used a hose spray of water to the gelcoat and now paint surface. So we probably prevented a wet air cleaner problem without knowing it. Coach sides and roof are normally washed with a bucket of water with a dollop of car soap.
Jor, you are right as it is the same design and suspect to both water and dust etc. I will add you to the list if you want me to?
Doug, to answer you question/comment, after installing the Deflector when I first made one I did check during rain filled trips to see if any "moisture" did get past and was happy to see that it did not. Previous to that there was lots of water in can. The other side of this is that dirt/sand/leaves and any amount of crap that gets sucked into them was not now happening so this was an added benefit in my mind.
Barry's idea of a moisture meter is good but that does not protect against all the other stuff that gets in, and this will extend service life even if one never drives in rain. This is an added benefit that can save money with needless changing of the filter.
IMHO
JohnH
Thanks for letting us know about this problem. I would like to throw in my 2 cents. Apparently Foretravel has used this same type of air cleaner two different ways.
On my coach a 96 U270 made in Aug 95, one of the early versions; the air cleaner is mounted parallel to the back of the coach, rather than fore and aft, and the air enters the big end of the filter and the dirt and dust collects on the inside of the filter.
With the fore and aft mounting the air exits out the big end of the filter and the dust and dirt collect on the outside of the filter. With this arrangement if the filter does not have expanded metal on the inside it can collapse as in Roger's case.
I believe that most of the coach's built a year or so after mine have the fore and aft mounting arrangement. My coach also has a device in the vertical pipe before the air cleaner labeled water separator. It's a bit larger than the pipe and has some vanes that apparently apply a spin to the air to remove any liquid water drops. I do not see a water separator in the picture posted by jor. I'm not sure how well this works as I have noticed that after driving in rain that the filter minder showed more restriction than usual that disappeared after it dried out and was reset. I will edit this post with a picture when I have a chance.
Not visible in the picture of the water separator is a drain tube with rubber device on the end; it's not a cap as there is a hole in the middle of the rubber.
Our U300 is a few months older than Kent's coach. It has the old style air intake right behind the rear wheels so it picks up anything they spray back. One of the worst design flaws the coach has. Fairly easy to copy Kent's style with a minimum investment.
Detroit 2-cycles use twice as much air as a Cummins/Cat so especially important to check filter condition. Best price I could find when I replace ours about 3 years ago was ballpark $65.
Pierce
U270 I have has a longer pipe running horizontal before it gets to the filter housing...any water that comes in it will stay in bottom of pipe and drain out bottom of filter housing. The U320 filter picture is a design flaw. Any water that enters the intake appears that it will flow down the pipe and land directly on the paper filter.
Luber Finer is FRAM, the same people who sell you the orange cans of death for your car.
stay far away.
Good to know. The engine tech at Cummins said to stay away from Fram filters. Roger
I am with Roger. I think the real issue here is the non-supported filter. I am confident that no matter what the intake design of our coach, all of our filters get wet to some extent when driven in heavy rain. I will just be sure to buy only filters with wire mesh on both the inside and outside.
Jon, I stand corrected on the position of the air intake. I didn't know the 95 back panel was redesigned. Did the 94's also have the rear air intake.
Just a suggestion to Roger or the moderators, this information is so critical that I think a Title change to this thread is in order, maybe something like Air Filter Warning!!!
Just checked my filter and all is good, thanks everyone for the heads up and the ideas.
I remember looking at John's air deflector, and added it to my "someday list", guess I need to find John's thread and the photos again, and like Don, move it up the list.
Great warning- thanks. I am doing a short move Wednesday, then I will order 2 Fleetguard filters from filter barn. I will install one right away and keep the other for a spare.
The people on this forum are great for sharing ideas, experiences and warnings.
Thanks to all of you.
Just a note and/or question on the subject of "spare filters". I think everyone probably carries a few spare fuel filters (if not, you should). Some probably also carry spare oil, coolant, transmission and air filters. Air filters are probably least common, due to size. I occasionally read cautions about the "shelf life" of filters, saying a filter, if over _____ years old should be discarded. The usual reason given is "possible degradation of filter media". Also, there are cautions about the proper long-term storage of spare filters, and stern recommendations to enclose the filter in a air tight bag, store in a cool place out of direct sunlight, etc.
Donaldson, for instance, states 2 years shelf life: http://www.donaldson.com/en/semiconductor/support/datalibrary/072546.pdf
Anyone have any thoughts on this subject? Is it something we really need to worry about, or just another urban myth?
Holy Smokes.
Where does the line start for ordering deflector?
I'm not sure I would have the same success arguing that insurance coverage should cover this destruction. Somebody made a impressive argument to get that covered.
David
Wow, thanks for the heads up for us newbies. Time to check.
Larry
Another thing you might check is the rubber drain tube thing on the bottom of the filter housing that lets water out. I looked at mine and the bottom half has been cut off some how. This provided a hole about 3/4" in diameter to let dust and sand into the bottom of the housing. I opened the end cap and found about a tablespoon of dust and sand near the hole. I have a new one on order.
Is that a baldwin filter? Higher end filters have metal grating on the outside AND inside so that the filter can't disintegrate entirely.
EDIT: Ah I see that did come up. Yeah the fleetguard filters have the inner mesh too.
Here is an interesting link that ScubaGuy dug up. Another air filter (Baldwin) failure that lead to an engine rebuild. Thanks.
Failure Analysis: Did a Baldwin PA2721 Filter Failure Kill our 8V71 Engine?... (http://www.technomadia.com/2013/10/failure-analysis-did-a-baldwin-pa2721-filter-kill-our-8v71-engine/)
Roger
OBTW. Insurance check came today..
Have followed the Technomedia folks since before they broke down in Mt. And the full rebuild process, as they post n a bus board.
Seems Baldwin has QC issues with engineering. Actually I had forgotten about the Baldwin sues.
Anyway I avoid them before & since, Fleetguad or the Wix/NAPA, (Wix makes the NAPA). Price varies greatly.
I read this article with interest as again it seems water has played a part in the design and build of these things.
Maybe my original thoughts are not so way out after all??
Factory is working night and day trying to fill orders (along with all the other stuff I am doing) >:D >:D
JohnH
Thanks John for working overtime to fill the deflector void. Mine went on quite nicely, 3/16"x1/2" aluminium pop rivets and a bit of 3M sealant. Looks great.
Roger
Roger,
Sorry you guys had to go through that experience but all seems to have turned out well. A fresh rebuilt engine covered by State Farm due a weather incident is an excellent outcome indeed! I use State Farm and have had claims covered for vehicles due to hurricanes. They have always been fair with me and were the first insurance company to set up temporary offices for claims here in Gulfport after Katrina which were massive.
It only takes 8 ounces of dirt to ruin a heavy duty engine. http://www.wixfilters.com/Products.aspx?ct=phaf
I changed my air filter in 2013. I didn't know the age of it and my air restriction gauge was missing. The old one was a Baldwin and I replaced it with a Napa Gold 2610 which is made by Wix under advisement from Pierce. I paid more for it from Napa but they had it in stock and I was in a hurry to go on a trip. After reading about your experience and reading the other posts here on this subject I'm glad I did.
Here some pics of where my air intake is located and the drain plug underneath. It's up high enough like Kent's but water could get in and collect along the air duct which runs back down and parallel to the ground before connecting up to the round container for the filter. The rubber plug is easy to get to and removes easily for inspection. I think I'm okay but I will inspect it regularly.
Thanks,
Jerry
Jerry,
Excellent air intake location. Wish we had ours there. Yours must be a later build. Ours was late 1992 so while a 1993 model, didn't have the good intake like yours.
Here is a photo of what an air cleaner should look like with mesh on both the inside as well as the outside. Always check the rubber end gasket and make sure the air cleaner element seats properly when putting the cover back on. Should take a little pressure so you know it is sealing on the other end.
Pierce
And just an update on all of the orders that you sent to me I mailed them today and should arrive in 2 days.
Have fun. Those that use Pay pal that is good for me too (and thanks to those that already paid)
JohnH
Some great information here that hopefully will save others from this miserable experience. Based on my experience, I'd like to add:
Check your intake air system from turbo to filter. Mine had a sneaky little hole abraded into the metal line from something (undetermined) rubbing on it. Any leaks here allow unfiltered air to be sucked in as this is a suction line. One way to test is to do a visual inspection, and while engine is running lightly spray starting fluid around joints in lines. Any increase in engine speed indicates a leak. Naturally you want to do this check right after the engine is started before heating up. Use your own judgment, no doubt there's an element of danger.
Pull the intake off the turbo and check the vanes for abrasions=unfiltered air leak. Find it. BTW, a small amount of play (actually more than you would think) is normal in turbo bearings, allows for expansion when hot.
I also found a leak on the output side of turbo between it and CAC. This was another hole, rubbed into it by the rubber cover support bracket. This is pressure side so no danger of sucking unfiltered air but it does compromise performance.
I went back to Donaldson brand filters and spent some time researching same. Have now gone to the Donaldson synthetic media filter rather than cellulose which is the standard filter. This takes filtration efficiency to 99.9% rather than the 99% of the cellulose media. Also provides moisture resistance. Filterbarn doesn't have em, but found at Filter Products Corporation, a DBA5024 Donaldson Blue filter. About 58.00. Donaldson's page AIR FILTER, PRIMARY DONALDSON BLUE|Engine & Hydraulic|AIR FILTERS|Dynamic... (https://catalog.donaldson.com/productDetail/en/A?R=sku775447A&productId=11826&skuId=s10735) Note this is an on/off road rated extended life filter.
One other point concerning aftermarket filters. I've seen several of them come out of coaches that looked partially crushed, with the metal webbing wrinkled and media compressed. There seems to be some size variation (length) in some of these multiple fit style filters. This crushing is worrisome, it would be easy for this to compromise the media.
Sounds like John's deflector should be OEM equipment. I'll be adding one also.
Just installed a fleetgard , nice quality and it came with a housing gasket also
John:
Excellent. Do you have a picture of the deflector and how do I get one?
I just happen to be at FoT right now to fix this air intake sucking in rain water problem. It's stranded me twice.
Doug
dougs9472@gmail.com
Took John H. advice and added the deflector today. Hated to drill holes in the fiberglass cap though! Had a piece of 1/8" x 3.5" aluminum diamond plate kicking around so I use that just had to cut to length 28". Attached with 3/16 x 1/2 " stainless steel screws and sealant.
Thanks to this thread I replaced our air filter yesterday. It's been there for only 5 years and 25k miles, but it was *filthy*. At least the paper element held up, but if it weren't for the previous owners' notes on the cover (thanks Doug!), I'd have guess it was twice that old.
Dougself sent me a picture of a "scoop" that he saw on a few Nimbus coach's at FT , so they abviously knew that there where major problems with water intrusion. Problem is (my opinion) the ones shown in picture would be a major mistake as they would "pull" water etc into this "scoop" not deflect it away??
I feel it should have been placed on the leading side ie opposite, and to stop any back draft another very small edition of mine put were this one is shown.
FT it seems are changing the piping inside to "trap" water before travelling down to filter and utilising the rubber drains in a few places to drain whatever gets thru.
Any opinions?
johnH
Agree, John,
That would scoop water INTO the intake like crazy. That is, assuming this is the intake for the air filter/engine intake.
Well hopefully it is the air intake as that is what we were discussing when I asked him to send the photo to me. maybe Doug can chime in and address that question.
JohnH
A few years ago I was talking with a 'Bird owner about the air intake. It was located above the roof, with the opening to the rear. He said it originally was facing forward, but it swallowed a bird, so he turned it around. He said the filter stopped the bird, but he did replace the filter. As I recall, the filter was more of a cylinder (mine is a cone). He had the 8V92 Detroit and I have a 6V92, so maybe that is part of the difference.
Yes, I specifically included the pun.
FoT just put in a longer vertical air intake pipe and 3 duck bill drains in the 'floor' of the box. The pipe now extends a couple if inches above the 'floor' of the fiberglass box at the intake. Very heavy downpour rain water supposedly will not run down the pipe any more.
FoT says it works.
We'll see.
I have the intake slots on the driver side rear corner about 2/3 way up the body.
WoooHHHH!!!. Hold on folks.!!!! John H's assumption in his post showing the scoop is NOT correct. Foretravel IS NOT installing these scoops on Nimbuses.
I just left Foretravel having had my air intake pipe lengthened. I took this picture out of interest sake only and sent it to John. This is not my coach. It is a older one that was in a service bay.
No one at Foretravel, and I asked several techs, even suggests these scoops will prevent water from entering. They appear on older coaches for cosmetic reasons only.
Wow. I'm now somewhat disenchanted with sharing stuff in this forum. Don't believe everything you read folks.
WoooHHHH!!!. Hold on folks.!!!! John H's assumption in his post showing the scoop is NOT correct. Foretravel IS NOT installing these scoops on Nimbuses.
I just left Foretravel having had my air intake pipe lengthened. I took this picture out of interest sake only and sent it to John. This is not my coach. It is a older one that was in a service bay.
No one at Foretravel, and I asked several techs, even suggests these scoops will prevent water from entering. They appear on older coaches for cosmetic reasons only.
Wow. I'm now somewhat disenchanted with sharing stuff in this forum. Don't believe everything you read folks.
Doug,
Speaking for myself, I hope you don't stop sharing stuff on this forum. I can't imagine anyone holding you responsible for what somebody else posted secondhand. Obviously I am not speaking for John but when I read his post, it seemed to me that he clearly indicated he was speculating about the photo and leaving it open to correction. I thought the orientation of the scoop to be odd myself, but still found it interesting. I think it should go without saying that when it comes to the health of our coaches, all information should be verified by whatever authority you trust, be it your own engineering sense, FOT, MOT, RIVA, FMCA, NHRA, NFL, NBA... LOL! Choose your own acronym. Anyway, I like seeing people sharing their experiences on the later coaches. One day, they might be old enough to be affordable for the "Poortravelers" among us (of which I am one :o ).
Don
I only know the deflector above the intake/camera sure reduces the dirt in the air filter, the FAA, CIA approved it too.
I have been following this post and I investigated the Phenix. On the rear side is a faring that is vertical that drives air into the intake. At the bottom of the plastic faring is a large hole so water entering will drop down the engine bay. When installing the new filter there was no evidence of water ever being there. I have a friend with another brand Monaco they have a hole also but have a rubber hose to direct the discharge through the engine bay to the ground. Seems like a simple thing to do and certainly protects for a $$$ problem in the future.
I retract what I said about the scoop that Doug sent to me and that FT had installed these.
Lesson learned not to post info untill what is told you has been clarified.
There never was any agreement to not post anything and the info I was given was during a discussion on water intrusion of intakes, but, I should not have put the info out and for that I am sorry to anyone it may affect.
JohnH
Ok, Don. Thanks. I feel better now. Ever thought of running for President?
One more day on the road in the heat by myself on my way home to SC from Nac. Tomorrow I'll finally be home and I can smooch my wife and lick my dog again.
I just hope it rains like you know what so I can test the new piping.
How could I have left out the FAA, or the FCC, or the
FDA strike that last one, I don't believe anything they say >:D LOL!
Don