I was discussing this topic with some coworkers and wanted to know if the "unibody" construction was any safer than the conventional box and chassis type motorhome when involved in an accident? I have heard the stories about the foretravel being uprighted and driven to the shop. Really? Common sense would dictate they are stronger than a aluminum covered wood frame on a chassis but in a roll over ...... would it really matter? Anyone witness a Fortravel in a serious accident? What was the outcome?
Just thinking.........................
Foretravel Bridge crush ? (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=18437.msg126602#msg126602)
Foretravel Rolled? (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=10430.msg48884#msg48884)
The pictures of the Grand Villa that are on that thread don't look like a Unihome to me, but I suppose the coach may be a U225 or U240? Given the small size of the images, it is hard to tell. But for sure, not a U280 or U300 judging by the compartment doors.
Don
Every rollover is different depending on the speed, distance, what it hits, etc. While our coaches are well built, they don't have the strength of a commercial bus or BlueBird/Wanderlodge but don't pay the big weight penalty the Birds do. On the other hand, a lot of SOBs would be in pieces in the same rollover as the linked photos show. FTs are excellent compromises between the lightweight junk traveling down our roads and the tank like construction the commercial coaches use.
Pierce
Don,
IIRC that was an O22C (Oshkosh) chassis. This was a step before the Unihome.
Pamela & Mike
Do motor homes actually "roll over"? Most of them are tip-over, it seems to me. But I am not altogether secure in this belief. But if our rigs merely tip over and slide on their sides I suspect that the Unihome construction model would be more likely to hold together than the wood-frame-on-a-chassis model.
I know that our 22-year-old Unihome makes almost no sounds (creaking and groaning and squeaking) going down the road and a glass of water left next to the bathroom sink (oops) is still in place at the end of a 400-odd mile trip. The DW's parents, with a plethora of motor homes over a 40-year (plus) span, had RVs that made a fair bit of noise traveling down the road. But my hearing was better back then, too. :P
I'm sure that someone has done some research on this but it depends on who funded it as to whether or not the results of the research ever got published.
Craig
I cringe whenever I see or read about an RV labeled Ultralight. I imagine it wouldn't take much to destroy it. My preference is something with protection built in. The penalty we pay for a heavier, stronger built more durable vehicle will and has proved to be well worth the sacrifice (if any) in miles per gallon.
I see... then actually, the condition of that particular roll over doesn't really relate to the monocoque versus conventional framed coach chassis, though it does obviously relate to overall build quality of a Foretravel, whatever the platform. It would certainly be interesting to see pictures of a rolled Unihome or Unicoach, but we won't be volunteering ours as a demonstration unit! :o
Don
I was all in favor of "ultralight" until I entered a few RVs that were supposed to be ultra light. Ultra flimsy was my impression. Our 1970 Streamlight 21' travel trailer (my fly fishing/kayaking/mountain biking partner) is only 3500 pounds so it would be classed as "ultralight" now but is far more sturdy than anything equivalent in the RV shows.
But heavier doesn't always equal stronger, either.
Craig
I have seen a number of rolled foretravels. They fair well but usually are to totaled. One rolled over on the Alaska motorcade last year in fact. They do not break apart like the raised rail chassis coaches do.
As contrasted by the Tiffin back east recently that just went on its side, and that just... came apart.
Almost exploded apart. Just awesome!
Craig
Does anyone have photos of a Unihome under construction? I would like to see the framework of one before the sides and top fiberglass was applied. How are the front and rear axle frames attached?
The basic construction is totally different than what you are asking to see.
Each side and roof and floor and compartment divider and bottom floor was vacuum bonded as an seperate assembly then they were bolted together.
In cool and humid weather you can see the steel framing outlined on the sides.
Slide outs changed the elegant engineering that the unihome originally had. No frame rails.
The body shell was the frame like an airplane. Slanted steel in the side walls on your coach is visible
Adding multiple slide outs required a set of main rails as holes in the walls lost that strength area and required a more conventional frame below the floor. Heavier by far.
Although the unihome and unicoach both had a bigger than the nominal 1 1/2 steel tubing where the track way is below the floor for the hose and wiring runs.
As slides were added I assume those steel pieces were enlarged considerably
I used to have photos of a naked unihome coach. Foretravel made it up for the buddy rally in 1988 if memory serves me. Steel only.
Wonder if grimes has a photo somewhere as I remember him and McGrath taking photos?
Unless Foretravel asked for no photos? They might have...
I'm really surprised, considering the thousand's of FOT factory tours that have been given, that (apparently) NO ONE has ever taken and posted some photos. I have searched the Forum and the Web, and come up empty-handed. Hard to believe in this day and age, that there aren't at least half a dozen factory tour videos posted on YouTube... What is the story?
Of course, I must share the blame... I went on the Tour at the last Ladies Driving School, and didn't even think to take my camera. :facepalm:
Right! We went on the tour some twenty years ago and I gawked without a camera. The time period was just about when our coach was in production in 1994. Star stuck--in love. Note to self: Take Pictures.
Someone has :)
Foretravel Factory Tour 2005 (http://beamalarm.com/Documents/foretravel_factory_tour_2005.html)
Thanks, Barry. When I was doing my search I saw that link on your "Foretravel Help Links" page, but I swear when I looked at it, it was "black", like a dead link.
I still think it would be nice (and profitable) if Foretravel would produce a professional Factory Tour video, and post it on YouTube. Some of the other coach manufactures have done this, and they get a lot of hits. It's (almost) free publicity - what's not to like? Or are they afraid that their old-fashioned, built-by-hand assembly line will not compare well to more "modern" operations?
Thanks Barry..... I should have known that you would have some of these type photos! :)
I,m just surprised to see that there are no through rails that connect the front and rear "trucks" ....for lack of a better description.
In the semi-monooque construction, particularly on the earlier no slide coaches, the welded steel side walls with all of the diagonals serve that function in a way. But really all of that super structure contributes to the rigidity and strength in effect creating a giant hollow box beam (two including the basement). It is all interdependent, stiffer, and and stronger than the raised rail chassis. Also, much more labor intensive to build! But it creates a coach lighter in weight for the size and carrying capacity, with a better power to weight ratio. I like it! :D
Don
"Through rails" would just duplicate what the semi-monocoque already does and add a lot unneeded weight. Full stressed skin monocoque would have been the best way to go but more expensive in a limited production motorhome like our Foretravels. General Motors was one of the pioneers in monocoque bus construction. The engine/transmission package just bolts to the "body" as well as all the front suspension. A combination of aluminum, steel along with a stressed skin make a super rigid and strong vehicle. See monocoque images at: gm monocoque bus construction image - Google Search (http://www.google.com/search?q=gm+monocoque+bus+construction+image&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=958&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CB0QsARqFQoTCKqJwriMiMcCFUaVDQodc4MGLw)
Bulkhead failures have absolutely nothing to do with the concept, only the way it was implemented.
Pierce
I caught a glimpse of the FT that rolled during the Alaska Motorcade 2015 as it lay in the mountainside. We were on the Motorcade tour and passed the accident site shortly after the edge of the road gave way under the unfortunate coach. I also saw it at a salvage area after it was "recovered." The rollover was relatively gentle. The damage to that coach was done during the recovery, not during the accident. Recovery included pulling on the front axle hard enough to bend suspension components and destroy the entry area.
When I viewed the recovered Foretravel, the outside panes on two of the exterior double paned windows were broken. The passenger side windshield was missing because the driver had kicked it out in order the leave the coach. All other exterior glass was intact. All the cabinet door were closed, all lamps were in place, all mirrors and glass inside were in place. It appeared the the structure remained intact and the coach retained its proper shape.
Another similar "high end coach" suffered a similar fate and was parked next to the FT. Most of the cabinets were down and the interior was a mess. The structure appeared to be racked, but did not come apart.
I hope never to test my FT by crashing it. I do prefer to be in a coach that could be recovered by a wrecker rather than a dumpster.
I have to fess up. I saw the link was dead also for some reason and activated it. I knew someday this topic would come up. :giggle:
I'm more curious/worried about front impacts on the unicoach flat front style. There is a front cap with very little structure between the driver and the road. Pushing on the windshields flexes the mount/fiberglass. The unihome slant nose style has more structure up front, but not like a car or truck.
Krush,
No, the slant style has almost nothing out front from where the front cap starts. That's why you can't walk out on the nose to change ICC bulbs. If you look with a mirror and a strong flashlight, you can see there is nothing but spray insulation from where the front cap starts in the ceiling. I put a blanket out there and crawl on my belly like a reptile.
The windshield area is very unstable with creaking, the glass moving and even breaking when making a transition from one surface to another. I build a ramp from where our driveway goes out to a parking spot to ease the transition. Sure would be nice not to have to worry about the windshields.
You can reinforce the wood where it rots just below the windshield but it should have had several steel hoops at different levels out front.
No matter what kind of road, my old 4107 never even creaked.
I don't worry too much as we are feet above most traffic. Will take my chances otherwise. Most SOBs have a lot more problems than this.
Pierce
If the front cap on a Unicoach flexes when you push on it, it is delaminates from the plywood support bulkheads behind it! The glue / epoxy that Foretravel used to attach the front cap to the bulkheads was not a fully waterproof glue. If you get leaks in the front clearance lights or the the roof the water runs down the front cap and over time will cause the glue to let go and possibly rot the front edge of the bulkheads. You can tell this has happened by pushing on the front cap just below the windshield-- if it flexes, it is delaminated. The good news is that it is not very difficult to repair. There are two horizontal 3/4" plywood bulkheads, one running just above the windshield and one just below the windshield. Foretravel's repair method is to remove the windshields to access the bulkheads and to use the same glue that was used originally and clamp until cured, then reinstall the windshield. The estimated 14 hours to do the job.
I know all this because when I bought my coach it had this problem. The delamination does not really cause any problem except windshield gasket leaks from the flexing, but it is unnerving to see it move when a big truck passes! I elected to repair mine myself since my labor rate is a lot less expensive than Foretravel's. I did not remove the windshields, but did lift the dash cover. What lies below is the lower bulkhead. In my case I did have some minor rot, so removed that portion of the bulkhead (assisted by a sawsall) and replace with new marine plywood. There is steel tube structural support Below the bulkhead. I then cleaned up the old glue and rebonded the front cap to the bulkhead with 3M 5200 waterproof adhesive. In lieu of clamping I drilled 6, 1/4" holes through the front cap and installed 3" stainless steel #12 flat head wood screws with trim to pull the front cap to the bulkhead. My intention was to leave the screws only 7 days until the 5200 had cured, however they looked good enough that I elected to leave them there for extra support.
Problem solved--- 3 hours and $30 worth of adhesive plus a little plywood. No more flexing.
I for one, would love to see some pictures of the process... maybe you already posted them in a thread, but I couldn't find it with a quick search.
Don
I just saw the pictures of a Allegro that had a front tire blow out. The people are in the ICU and the coach came apart. It did not look like it rolled over but it went in a ditch.
I did not post any pictures, however if I remember correctly, I did take some. I will find and post what I have. I really like the 5200 for this application--waterproof, flexible and a very strong adhesion to wood and fiberglass. I did the repair a year ago and it is holding up perfectively.
After driving countless FTX's and grand villas and unihomes when at Foretravel and an avid off roader dry camper then I can tell the unicoach is considerable more reinforced in the front cap area and the whole body was reinforced
Probably needed for the torque of the bigger engines in them.
I have seen sidewalls flex from engine torque on other brands long ago. And delam from it.
Required reinforcing the frame rails on some chassis for the high torque versions.
Versus damage the less strong coaches body shell.
I did some digging and found the thread I started when I had the same problem. I replaced the plywood bulkhead at the base of the windshield and took a few pix..
looking for advice from the experts (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=21296.msg158382#msg158382)
This is what the framing in our coach looks like
Great pictures! I have never seen the sides on ours outlined that clearly, though the roof shows up very clearly... or did before the solar panels went up!
Don
Interestingly our roof stays cleaner where the aluminum is underneath. I was always curious of the mechanism that would cause that.
Easy, condensation covers part of the roof (or sides) when the temp drops to the dew point but where the aluminum is below, it stays warmer transferring the heat up through the aluminum from the coach interior so no condensation (it stays above the dew point). The condensation allows the dust/dirt in the air to stick to it and when the moisture evaporates, it is dirtier that the roof area with the aluminum under it.
Pierce