Looks like my cooling unit just gave out. :( Looking for ideas for residential units from 2003 owners that have done it and have real time experience on power usage and installation.
Barry - do you have a wall/pcket door immediately to the left or right of your fridge or a can-rack/pantry?
If the former, look at the 32" wide Samsung French Door (used to be RF197, RF18 now)
If the latter, look at the 36" wide Samsung side by side (used to be RS25, RS22 now)
If you have the wall, the 36" wide may have a problem with the doors not opening past 90 degrees so you can't get the bins out all the way.
The 32" wide is probably the most popular residential fridge being installed in RVs today.
We have the 36" in our coach and LOVE it! It is a huge improvement over the Dometic it replaced and we wish we'd done the ugrade sooner. Samsung 24 CF counter depth fridge in a 2003 U320 (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=20792.0)
As to power consumption, I know ours ran off the inverter for more than 8-10 hours a couple of times and the auto genset never kicked in, but I don't know how many amp-hours it pulled in that time.
Barry, I learned just a short while ago that there is NOW a replacement cooling unit for our units in the 2003 coaches. It's a Canadian company, Artic Cool or something like that. Supposed to be superior to the original unit.
If you are interested in this option, I will look up the full information
I do have the pocket door to the left of the refer.
I will look at any option right now. Thanks
Bob and Faith's installation of the 32" wide French door model
New Residential Refrigerator (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=21920.0)
Gayle and Jim's of the same model
Residential fridge (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=13454.0)
And Roger and Susan's (post linked shows actual energy usage)
Another Samsung installed (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=22462.msg171437#msg171437)
Single best upgrade we have made (from the "pink" viewpoint).
I hated the RV frig (we also had upgraded the '96's frig to a residential before we got rid of it). In hot weather I always had to worry if it was keeping things cold, often having to freeze ice to rotate into the frig to keep things at a food safe temp. The Samsung keeps the temperature constant no matter the outside temperature. The ice maker makes lots of ice. We did have a problem with the defrost pipe freezing up resulting in water in the veg drawers. Plenty of youTube videos on this issue. It resolved itself before Jim got around to doing anything about it.
We had Oregon Motorcoach Company do the install. To be honest, we were disappointed in them. They just fooled around with the removal and prep. Jim ended up doing the prep work in the evening to make it like he wanted it. Yes, there was some cabinet work. Jim did the deconstruct; OMCC did new woodwork which looks really nice.
When we travel, I put nonskid rubber stuff on the shelves so things don't slide around. We have a Velcro strap to keep the refrigerator doors closed. OMCC installed a screen door latch (see Michelle's post for reference to thread) to keep the freezer door shut.
We do little to no dry camping so can't address that issue. Maybe an overnight while traveling but that is all.
Make the change!
Gayle McNeece
Hi Barry,
I think almost everyone who has done a residential refrig swap will tell you they are great. Our 32" 19 cu ft Samsung is fabulous. It gets cold fast and stays just were it is set all the time.
I did this myself with some help getting the gas refrig out and the Samsung in. Not very hard at all.
For us the extra 4" is very useful space. It provides a 3-1/2" x 66" x 22" deep cabinet with four shelves. We measured many things to determine shelf spacing and now have a place for trays, our jig saw puzzle board, can goods, beverage cans, long boxes of aluminium foil and parchment paper and much more. Each shelf has a bottom piece that slides out so nothing gets trapped. This covered most of the odd stuff we have that is hard to find a place to store.
There is a lot of space in our FT coaches to store stuff. I am always looking for easy ways to improve that in our coach. Not so that we can carry more but to make it easier to organize and retrieve.
Like Michelle has said we have no problem going 10-12 hrs on the inverter alone when the batteries are charged up to begin with. We did discover that the generator autostart does work on a cold January morning in Kansa City. With the Aqua Hot on all night and the refirgerator we probably got 8 hrs.
I am thinking about removing the big LP tank (it only feed the two burner stove now) and adding two more 8D's on a a dedicated high efficiency inverter just for the refrigerator. They would get charged from the alternator when driving and a separate battery charger when using a land line or the generator. The stove can use a refillable 5 lb tank. Probably last a year.
This change will limit your boondocking. A good sized solar setup might keep up. How you travel and how much you plug in makes a difference.
Roger
Roger,
Where would you put the small propane tank? Does it need to be vented? Can you have batteries in same compartment as propane? Thinking induction inside and camp stove outside as an option. I like two extra batteries and small tank option better. Let me know if you figure it all out.
I love my residential and can go overnight with no issues. My Samsung draws 3amps when it is on. I pulled the propane and added only one battery and put in an induction burner in a drawer.
Barry, it is a great change and just works.
Barry, the place with the just released (last winter) replacement cooling unit for our fridge is Arcticold in New Brunswick. My contact was Steve Cormier, 1-888-782-6665 or 1-506-525-2550 or steve@arcticold.com. The price was $1250, I believe.
I have not yet had any trouble with mine but I see this as my next step as age and disability are going to force me to hang up my keys soon. AND, I do not want to give up any more kitchen storage (already have a dishwasher under the stove).
Tim, I have been trying to answer all day. Verizon in Eastern OR upload speeds peak at 0.08 MPS if you can connect to anything at all. 30 miles from Portland, not much better.
Small refillable LP tanks come in 1, 2, 2-1/2 and 5 lb sizes. The 5 lb tank is 8" diameter x 12" tall. I do not know of any issues with LP and batteries in the same vented compartment but I am following up on that. I am also considering just using the green disposable bottles like the ones we use on our grill. I think two of those would last most of a year for the two burner stove. They could go in the existing LP space and use the existing plumbing.
We have an induction cooktop "burner" as well and use it often if we are plugged in. Another nice thing to have.
We have a LP gas fire ring that came from Lowes. These are very nice. On low burner, normal for us, a disposable bottle would last about two hours. That makes a small refillable attractive.
Shop Garden Treasures 18.5-in W 54,000-BTU Bronze Portable Steel Propane Gas... (http://www.lowes.com/pd_466652-53470-67380-D_0__?productId=50037272)
I like the idea of separate batteries and a separate inverter that has much less overhead to power just the refrigerator. If you are not making ice or doing a warm starting up, 3 amps at 120 volts is a typical average, about 36 amps at 12 volts.
I really can't imagine going back to gas. Maybe 12v/120v compressor driven refrig but they are very pricy.
Roger
Pictures, maybe
Freezer lock, no screws on the freezer door, a 1" velcro strap on the doors is perfect for travel, the skinny pantry adds a lot.
Roger
Tim, our induction cooktop is not a built-in one. I have a 15' heavy duty extension cord along and we use it out doors at least as much as inside. There are lots of things we cook where I would rather do it outside. We use our OGrill frequently as well. It is nice to have options.
Roger
You and I are about the same - I have the LP gas fireplace and have a 5 LB Propane for my grill on my deck at my Chicago condo - just not sure re Batteries and propane in same compartment. Know that Propane compartment must be vented and must be unlocked.
Let me know what you find out - I will do some digging too
At least four all matching batteries in condition and equalizing the cable lengths to equalize the charge and draw issues and the refer cost plus install and the cost of the necessary solar to avoid constant gen run make this a very expensive item.
UNLESS, of course, you are hooked to a pedestal every night?
400 amp hours of battery consumption is 50% discharge and requires three hours of gen run time to get back to 90% charge.
Solar can lessen or eliminate the gen run time if the conditions allow it.
The posts here mention that the quiet gens are somewhat noisy in the coach itself.
My non quiet gen is actually quiet inside but noisier outside.
Devils choice I guess.
Plus a possible inverter replacement puts this roughly in the $10k range IMO.
Yes I understand the convenience totally.
Just hard for me to add that much amp hour draws. Aqua hot and normal camping uses overnight is 150 amp hours already for us.
Add another 150 easily for the refer is 50% discharging the three new 8g8d's I have.
I camp in places where the gen hours are restricted to late morning. No pedestal.
Two dollars an hour minimum to run the gen. Six bucks a day times 30 is fair amount of money to us.
Just saying.
Last year when I was at MOT, they said I did not have a large enough battery bank for residential refrigerator. So we went with a new
norcold and have been happy so far.
Bob, your $10k guess might be close if you had nothing to begin with. Not changing anything but the refrig and selling the LP take out and I am all in for less than $1000.
Everyone uses their coach in different ways as they choose. Your choices are yours and don,t make someone elses wrong or foolish. I certainly don't have to run my generator 100% of the time to use our residential refrigerator, neither does any one else.
DWMYH
Roger
Talked with my guru buddy about this and he had several interesting technical things to pass on.
A household refer is designed to operate at 50-90 degrees in a temp controlled space. Not in an open to outdoor temps. While there are outdoor refers he doubts if any of the pretty samsungs were made for this.
He mentioned that the newest model refers have a cylinderical compressor mounted on it side to free up interior space in the refer.
Internal in the compressor housing is a motor hung on springs.
And designed to compress gas not liquid.
Applying the brakes he can hear the motor inside the housing trying to compress liquid oil that is in the system for lube and then the valves clatter trying to relieve the over pressure.
Older style compressors that look like a hat to use his words are not affected as much by the movement.
He suggests keeping the a/c on in the unit if the temp get hot inside the coach and the refer on.
Plus every time the refer cycles its heating the interior of the coach.
At extreme hot or cold the temp sensor can cause the freezer to thaw as the refer side governs it.
MUST be vented internally and the interior between 50-90 which is the manufacturers spec according to him on the new pretty stuff.
I assume the new refers are bottom coils? Not rear?
He had never mentioned in detail why he was not a residential fan before.
Not a good dry camp setup was his biggest point and the possible burnout of the compressor motors piston trying to compress liquid as it sloshes forward during travel while braking was the other issue in the newer designed refers .
Not made to in a non level moving vehicle. Very sensitive to level also he mentioned
Do what makes you happy, Bob.
We are some of those who are much happier with our residential fridge so we're doing the same ;) Many, many thousands of residential fridges in motorhomes out there so this isn't a new thing.
I am sure they are. Just relaying hopefully helpful info on the installation of a household unit in a moving vehicle with a not necessarily correct interior temp if the refer is to be left on and no one in the coach and the a/c off.
He also mentioned high heat inverters trying to put out that much power all the time and charge batteries at the same time. M
Foretravel has fans I see pointed at the inverters as do other brands as obviously was an issue they were aware of at some time.
Bob,
Think we have gotten off track here. An inverter EITHER inverts or "passes through" and charges. The pass through feature produces little/no heat.
Hmmmmm. Why (and how) would one charge and invert at the same time? I charge to 12 v when I have 110 (gent or shore power), and I invert 12v to 110 when I don't have 110.
Either me or your buddy doesn't understand my charger/inverter
OK Brett thanks for being as usual the voice of reason. :-)!
I knew I would mistate his words. Sorry.
After heavy use then charging was what he said
Agree! Pellet smoker, Weber on the go grill, and Coleman two burner cookstove all are at the ready for outdoor use.
Like I said I think were pretty similar. By the way what induction unit do you currently own?
Barry, we had the Samsung RSG257 installed and like it very much.
We did lose the storage space under the fridge. Our installer did not install it quite low enough for the right hand door to clear the pocket door frame at the ceiling, so we can't open the drawers completely. I think Michelle posted about this awhile ago; there is enough room to lower it and we probably will at some point. Two inches lower would do it. ::)
Dick
Would one of the moderators please split the inverter posts/discussion into their own topic? It doesn't belong here with residential fridges for a 2003 Foretravel.
Tim,
Nice Induction cooktop...
Amazon.com: DUXTOP 1800-Watt Portable Induction Cooktop Countertop Burner... (http://amazon.com/gp/product/B00GMCAM2G?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage)
Great cook set, induction ready, ceramic coated, removable handles, fully nesting, very sturdy
Amazon.com: Magma Products Gourmet Nesting 10-Piece Induction Stainless... (http://amazon.com/gp/product/B00IB39K1S?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage)
Our 35 year old aluminium, non-stick nesting pots and pan set has been retired from active duty, mothballed for the next people we know that buy and RV.
Roger
The interference between refrig door and sliding door track is a common thing overlooked when installing the res refrig. It is earier to raidpse them up higher to clear all of the existing wiring and plumbing. Some time making that neater makes the refrigerator slide as deep as it needs to be. The refrig can be up off the floor a couple inches for vetilation underneath. See my post that Michelle referenced. Even with the narrow side cabinet and all of the final trim in place we can still get ours in and out as needed even though in our 36ft there is a pantry in the way.
I moved the inverter outlet from behind the LP gas refrig to behind the kitchen drawers for better access and added a switch to the power to that outlet so that I could completely shut the refrigerator off and isolate it.
My sidewall refrig vent is still there, all the holes closed up, and there is now a slide up insulated panel to keep outside air from coming in. The roof vent is about 75% closed. I am working on a way to have it partly open in the summer, closed in winter.
Details make this a good install or a great install. Either way, in spite of what some may think, for many of us this is a very big improvement with very few drawbacks. For us, money well spent.
Roger
H I bought the nesting cookware on suggestion a few weeks ago! Used it yesterday. Loved it.
Like I said we're pretty similar.
Got your PM will connect later.
Used my own inverter
Same old (3) 8d's
1,399 for refrigerator (French door 33" wide).
$800 for parliament to I might cabinet and install.
Solar would be nice. Someday with new batteries, Made a mistake one winter and left reefer on gas in Florida when my mom moved in. The propane lasted 27 days from a full tank to empty. Couldn't fill it in the park, so got some 20 pounders and use those through the winter by accessing gas system via barbecue outlet.
There is no free lunch propane cost some money too. For some propane is the way to go I'm off for others it's DanFoss, but for me it's residential.
Maybe the answer puts together what you posted and my buddies comments.
Maybe the brands have engineering staffs and have looked at the compressor issues and selected the units that will not have reliability issues?
My Samsung came with a one year basic warranty and a ten year on what makes it work. I bought a five year extended warranty for maybe $100 that covers everything 100% for five years. Fix or replace. Try twice, replace. I told the dealer that it was going in a motorhome, asked about specific installation requirements, followed their recommendations (just like it was in a house). No problems with it being in a motorhome.
This Samsung was the most installed res refrig of all in motorhomes. Thousands. If it was a problem they would have heard about it. Followed all of the venting requirements. Any heat in the summer goes out the roof vent. Any heat in the winter is welcome.
Roger
All for it. Sounds great.
Dick, Where did you have it installed. I don't want to drive all the way to Nac. Has anyone used a dealer on the West Coast? Preferably Southern CA. I would like to use a dealer that has some experience.
Our (MY!!!) new Samsung fridge is wonderful. I bought the French Door model (no water or ice in the door) from Home Depot when they were having a sale ($999) and had it delivered to FOT. We lost the storage underneath, but with the French Door there is no problem with opening. The freezer is a pull out at the bottom, again, no issue with opening. Larry (at FOT) has developed a method os closing off the opening to the outside to keep winter wind out and keep AC cooled air IN ... just a nifty panel that fits behind the access plate and raises or lowers to provide access to the rear of the fridge and the elec connection. I believe it is part of his framing after the old fridge is removed and in preparation for the new one to go in. Great upgrade .....
Samsung Install Photos
Clearance at the top for the sliding door
Up off the floor for ventilation
Slide up inside insulated side wall vent cover
Outlet in kitchen cabinet base
On/off switch for the refrigeraton and a duplex outlet
Probably not in that order
Roger
Roger,
Very nice detail work! Love the bottom trim... my kind of obsessing over the details ^.^d
Don
Thanks, Don
The bottom trim has pockets into which the screw down feet fit. Those same screw down feet are part of the door alignment. There are two E-W tracks that you don't see for the wheels to roll on. This keeps the whole refrigerator up off the coach floor by about 2-1/2". Just enough to clear all of the wires and plumbing in the back and provide plenty of open ventilation.
It was interesting that the non-adjustable wheels tilt the refrigerator top toward the back about 3/16". I didn't notice this until the first test fit. I am sure this is to help the doors close by themselves. It looked odd so I had to raise the back end of the wheel tracks about 1/8" to get the front to be plumb and align with the cabinets.
It was a great project with a very nice outcome for us.
Roger
I may have missed this, is there any issue with keeping the doors closed on a residential fridge when underway? Is the magnetic seal enough, or need something additional?
We use a velcro strap through the handles for our side by side. No issues. French door models require a little more creativity.
Peter, see my reply#11.
Our Samsung is a French door model. I used a sliding door latch on the freezer door. The part on the freezer drawer is on there with the 3M high strength double stick tape, no screws. A simple Velcro strap on the upper side by side door handles. I don't think they ever came open while underway before we added these but they are so simple to use, better safe than sorry.
Roger
Foretravel made us a 2" wide strap that loops through the fridge doors and then wraps around the freezer handle. Not the best, especially on rough highway ... but for most interstates it is plenty.......UNLESS you have a little watermelon or something that shifts around inside!! Ask me how I know.
We found that attacking small brackets to the wood on either side of the freezer door and running a velcro strap across the front of the entire freezer has kept it shut on even the bumpiest surface. The FOT strap then anchored to that has been pretty much foolproof. I did add the tension rods inside to avoid watermelon shifting ... and all is well.
I think I got this one working again . It looks like the refer door was Unlatching while I was driving and let all the cold out. When I checked the coils they were not hot. After checking the control board and heating element they were good. Checked the propane flame and it was coming on but the cooling unit was not getting very hot so I thought it was bad. After researching my notes from previous encounter I realized I had not cleaned the burner in a long time. The flame was not a bright blue but yellowish. I cleaned the burner and it appears to be working again. I forgot how long it takes for the refer to get cold once you turn it on. I may have dodged another bullet due to my skillful troubleshooting :( or it just might be another intermittent pain in the ---
I will be at HWH today
You might as well bite the bullet and make plans to replace the fridge. After you do so you will wonder why you didn't do it sooner. It is just a fantastic improvement over the old one. I think it is one of the best upgrades you can do. I once thought about trading my 40' off for a smaller coach. The reason I didn't was the new fridge. I never want to put up with or have an old RV fridge again.
This buys me some time to research on where to get it done and what is involved on my coach to do it. Working great now.
I had a chance to try out my Reflective Refer vent cover in this high heat and it works great. Temperature in refer came down much more quickly and stayed down even as I was on the Sun Side. 8)
Residential fridges get rid of condenser coil heat several different ways, all of which work fine in normal open kitchen space, but all will not work the same in an enclosed space like our RVs.
Most common is probably bottom coil that uses a motorized fan to move inside air over coils and then blows the heated air back inside the room. This is the type where they recommend using a long narrow brush to clean out the coils, because being located at the floor level, the fan sucks in room dust that accumulates near the floor, and the coils are tightly packed due to the limited space under the fridge. No real need to keep the propane fridge back and top vent open. I assume many have installed this design in their motorhome, especially the wider more expensive fridges.
Another method uses the outside metal of the fridge to radiate the heat to the room. This may be an older and little used method, and requires an air space on both sides of fridge.
The third method is like our 10 cu ft Whirlpool, which many have recently installed in their RVs and is similar to how most fridges were built years ago. It has open coils on the most of the backside of the fridge and uses convection room air to get rid of the heat. Both outside vents must be open to let air flow in, up and heated air out the top of the motorhome and we also have several 12-volt quiet computer fans to assist moving air over the coils. Without a fan motor, there may be fewer motor sounds. The 10 cu ft size is 2' x 5' and fits in the exact same space as our old propane fridge, without any need to modify cabinet.
We have seen another type of condenser cooling that does not appear to have a bottom coil nor a visible open rear coil. I thought maybe the rear non-metallic cover may hide rear coils like our fridge.
Choices are wonderful, glad I chose the big Samsung with the ice in the door, I had no idea how much that little feature spoiled me. Yes everything has a end date down the road, when it happens & I am still kicking, will have another installed.
It is nice to not have big worries, and the refrig. is not a concern nor was the new Aqua Hot, tires, radiator, CAC, air bags, steering gear etc. etc... Health is the concern if I wanted to worry. :not:
I'm hoping when mine goes someday that we can get a new helium cooling from (I think) rvcoolingunit.com
And well said Dave.
We are thinking a little boondocking in our future so the gas job might be a better choice for us.
Barry
The Reflective Refer vent cover is a great idea.
How did you attach it? Looks like snaps, but can't tell for sure. That looks like a great upgrade for those sunny side refers....... ;D
Barry, sorry for the delay. It was installed at Dave & LJ's in Woodland, WA. $963.
Dick
The top has 2 snaps then I bungy around the vent to hold the reflextix on. I have 2 small bungies attached to the refer vent holes and inside 2 eyehooks to hold the cover in place and put pressure upwards then i put a stick to prop it out.
I know Temecula Valley would do a great installation. They replaced me original unit with a marine refrigerator last year. Even the woodwork is up to Foretravel standards.
Well research is done. As luck would have it my slide was drooping on one side causing it to rub against the cabinet. HWH said it needed to be shimmed and they do not do that. SOO off to Nac to get it fixed. After talking to service they said if I can get there by Tuesday they can do it. I talked to David Flannigan and he can do the refer after the slide work. Well I have to shoot by Kansas City where I was going to visit new granddaughter and have to come back up after the work is done. Hopefully she is not grown up by then ???
25% off parts and labor seems like now is the time to do it. I may be forced to looking at flooring while I am there. :headwall:
Because they won't let me within 500 yards of the coach while they are working on it, I can't get myself to use them again. Too much miscommunication by the time it is explained to the tech causing wasted time.