Title: Installing 4 batteries and a busbar setup in a 99’ 36 foot U270
Post by: Don & Tys on September 03, 2015, 05:17:03 pm
Post by: Don & Tys on September 03, 2015, 05:17:03 pm
This write up is a trial at using some of the Forum features that I am not well acquainted with and therefore represents an experiment. I am going to try and use the gallery to place pictures inline with the narrative in order to make it more easily followed. If it works out, I will do more future write ups with a similar format to benefit anyone who may wish to tackle similar projects, and also to help my future self figure out what my now self did :o
This project is doable, but fairly involved and requires some welding and extensive recabling of the original two battery setup found in U270's of this vintage. Coaches that have three batteries from the factory may be easier to do, or may not even be possible due to the placement of the parallelogram hinges... some precision measurement would be needed. Timing is important, as it is optimal to do it when replacing batteries in order to have the entire bank as close to the same age as possible. Of course, the expense for the batteries is doubled, and the additional cabling and terminations are not cheap either! It wouldn't be that much easier to add a third battery if starting with two than it is to add two more, because most of the work is fabricating the support for the top bank.
You could make it considerably easier if you just added a shelf, instead of a slide, but having had the batteries in and out several times while doing the basement/bulkhead project, I have a strong appreciation of the slide out that came with the coach. At 160 lbs. apiece, it is a lot easier (not saying it is easy!) to load and unload the battery with the slide out extended, particularly without the bus style compartment doors. It figures to be doubly so for the top bank. I have a lift table from Harbor Freight now, that makes the process of removing or installing the batteries much easier than it was the first few times I did it. Having a slide on the upper tier and a Harbor Freight hydraulic lift table makes the job of lading the top bank almost easy.
The project was made a bit more difficult because I want to wire each battery to a set of bus bars rather than paralleling all four, and I want to be able to slide them out without disconnecting the battery terminals, as there won't be much room to reach the back batterie's terminals.
That last part makes this a bit of an engineering challenge. The difficulty is in trying to arrange the upper level to allow the cables room to move with the slide, as well as having room to mount the bus bars. John H. made bus bars for his set up out of ⅜" X 2" wide copper, and while I considered going to ½", the ampacity rating of the ⅜" is more than adequate (copper busbar ⅜" thick X 2" wide has ampacity of over 900 DC Amps) and with space so constrained for cable management, every fraction of an inch matters. By the way, all battery cables are 4/0 Marine tinned copper (normal welding cables would be fine for this application, and quite a bit less costly... but I like the idea of never having to worry about corrosion, and the quality and flexibility of the high grade marine cables is second to none). I make my own cables and have the appropriate crimper to do the job. There are other means of terminating the cables, but a 360º crimp with quality lugs is the best option in my opinion.
The design for the slide that I came up with is different than the ones that Foretravel made for the three battery setups on non-slide coaches of our vintage. They made a support out of angle iron that goes all the way across the compartment and mounted the slide on top of it. This places the slides under the battery tray. In trying to keep the battery tray as low as possible (because of the hinged compartment doors on our U270 that have been acting as DNA collectors since we bought the coach), I elected to mount the slides on each side of the battery tray. To give the cables room to move with the slide, I bolted the left side slide support directly to the partition wall between the batteries and the fuel tank. I used 1" X 2" X ⅛" thick walled rectangular tubing to mount the stationary part of the 500lb full extension lock in/lock out slides that I bought on eBay.
I started the process by deciding to extend the partition that separates the fuel tank from the batteries in order to have the upper battery slide supported all the wall to the front.
This was not strictly necessary, but as I plan to add a few 4" wide aluminum shelves in front of the fuel tank for misc. fuel additives etc., I used some rectangular aluminum 1" X 2" X ⅛" thick walled aluminum tubing. I used two pieces on edge to create the 4" extension. I drilled two holes all the way through both prices of tubing and then enlarged the outermost hole on the outside piece to allow a screw head to ft through. I drilled edge of the steel ¾" thick tubing of the partition with ⅜" drill bit and installed ¼"-20 Rivet Nuts and fastened the two sections of aluminum tubing on edge with 3" long stainless screws. I made a trim piece out of ¼" thick X 1" wide aluminum rectangular stock and attached this to the outer rectangular tube with ¼" flat head Allen screws to hide the large holes through which the 3" long screws were inserted.
The next step was to use magnets to mark the framing of the side walls of the battery compartment, though I had already explored the the framing layout with a magnet when deciding how to approach supporting the upper slide.
As I suspected, there was horizontal framing at the exact place needed on both sides of the compartment for supporting a second tier of batteries. Foretravel apparently framed all three models of the Unicoaches with the same basic layout and since the U295's and U320's came with a second layer of batteries, the U270 had the required infrastructure in place. Thank you Foretravel! Next, I welded a piece of 3" X 3/16" flat stock to the 1" X 3" X ⅛" rectangular tubing that I used for the 500lb. full extension slide supports, and that 3" flat stock is attached to the wall at the back of the compartment.
Side note: The walls at the back of the battery and propane compartments consist of a ¾" X 1 ½" rectangular steel framed partitions with a ¾" plywood insert with a fiberglass skin bonded to both sides. The space created by these two partitions is a little nook accessible in the center portion of the front wall of the storage bay of our 36' coach. These partitions are extremely important as they provide the vertical longitudinal stiffness to counteract the pull of the rear axle control arms which tugs on the rear bulkhead joint with every bump and application of the retarder.
I used three 1 ½" X ¼" carriage bolts through the middle section of the back support and some ¼"-20 allen button head cap screws threaded into the perimeter steel frame of the back wall. On the right side, where the cables must be free to move over the range of the 20" full extension slides, I welded a support which spans both the horizontal steel frame member and the diagonal frame member on the left side wall in the front of the compartment. I also added 3/16" thick aluminum plates to the side wall which is screwed to the steel framing under neat the fiberglass skin to provide a surface to screw the bus bars to and to provide extra support to the battery slide. I drilled and tapped all mounting supports using ¼"-20 and 5/16"-18 allen head stainless steel fasteners in various locations.
I then proceeded with the fabrication of the battery slide tray, finished welding the frame and did several test fits.
When I was satisfied with the fit, I removed and disassembled the components and painted the frame and slide tray.
I fabricated the busbars after deciding how to minimize the cable connections and provide busbar isolation.
I had it in my head that I would like to be able to monitor the individual batteries so I could catch any problems as early as possible. Since the voltage would read the same for all as long as they were connected as bank, I decided to kill two birds with one stone and use four 500 amp 50 mv Deltic current shunts to provide most of the support for the negative busbar.
The shunts will enable me to add current monitoring at a future dated without modifying the busbar set up. Since one end of each shunt is bolted directly to the negative busbar, that saved me having to make four cables and finding the space to put them (I doubt that it would even be possible to accomplish this in the limited space available). Each shun is screwed to the aluminum plates underneath with two number 10-32 machine screws and the shunts have ⅜" -16 flat head allen screws countersunk into the copper busbars. There is also one additional Blue Sea ⅜" isolated heavy duty terminal normally used for connecting two or more heavy cables used as a isolating mount at the lower end of the negative busbar, mainly to make the installation hole drilling for mounting the shunts easier. In other words, I drilled and tapped the aluminum plate for the two holes of the Blue Sea isolator, bolted the copper busbar to it and then positioned the shunts which were already attached to the busbar at this point to mark the shunt mounting holes for drilling.
Side note: One of the difficulties you run into when trying to position components for mounting is that the drill bit tries to wander just enough to ruin your plan, especially when you are drilling on a vertical surface with awkward access as in the battery compartment. I countered this by making steel templates for drilling the holes outside of the compartment. I then would drill the first hole after center punching the desired location, at which point a drill and tap that hole. I would then screw the template through the appropriate hole, choose one of the holes in the template and mark it. After I drilled and tapped the second hole, I would then have the template attached firmly enough to drill the rest of the holes and have them end up exactly where I wanted them.
I then determined the minimum length of the battery cables to allow full extension of the slides and added about 2" which resulted in 36" long battery cables.
This added to the approximately 42" long inverter cables is about the same as the 72" inverter cable used on the original inverter cables, but minus the interconnects between the two batteries of the factory install since each battery has its own pair of cables connected to the busbar system to which the inverter cables are connected. On the positive bus bar, I used one of the Blue Sea isolated terminal posts and the one end of the 400 amp Class T fuze as bus bar isolation. I then tapped ⅜" -16 holes in the copper to connect the positive cables to the back side of the busbar to keep the profile as low as possible. I tapped a few extra holes to give some different options for cable management. I also decided to add a heavy duty battery disconnect switch to completely remove the house battery bank from the rest of the coach. I am still not entirely happy with the cable management, and will revisit that when I have some more time. I can at least extend and retract the trays without disconnecting any cables, though I have to help guide the cables a little in the process.
Finally, the "beauty" shots of the finished project (well, done for now...)
Project notes;
I got the cables, power lug terminals, battery cable ends, crimper and a few other items for this from Bay Marine Supply in San Diego. The owner of the business, Alan who is a commercial member of our forum, is always helpful and generally has the best prices I can find on the majority of the items I have researched, and sometimes far better than the best internet pricing I could find. Previously, I had installed a Magnum MSH3012M 3000W / 125A Hybrid Pure Sine Wave Inverter/Charger an Magnum MMP MiniPanel, Class "T" fuse, ARC50 advanced remote control, Magnum BMK battery monitor and some other related bits and pieces that I also from Bay Marine Supply. Alan was also great to bounce ideas off as he comes from the marine side of the equation which usually has more stringent standards when it comes to electrical items.
Links;
Wire, cable, and terminals (http://baymarinesupply.com/store/electrical/wiring/wire.html)
FTZ Heavy Duty Lug Crimp Tool (http://baymarinesupply.com/store/electrical/wiring/electrical-tools/ftz-lug-crimp-tool.html)
1000 lbs. Capacity Hydraulic Table Cart (http://www.harborfreight.com/1000-lbs-capacity-hydraulic-table-cart-69148.html)
Electrical: Busbar - DC Copper Busbar Ampacities (http://www.copper.org/applications/electrical/busbar/busbar_ampacities.html)
Amazon.com : Blue Sea Systems HD-Series Heavy Duty On-Off Battery Switch :... (http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems-HD-Series-Battery/dp/B000MMDLB6)
This project is doable, but fairly involved and requires some welding and extensive recabling of the original two battery setup found in U270's of this vintage. Coaches that have three batteries from the factory may be easier to do, or may not even be possible due to the placement of the parallelogram hinges... some precision measurement would be needed. Timing is important, as it is optimal to do it when replacing batteries in order to have the entire bank as close to the same age as possible. Of course, the expense for the batteries is doubled, and the additional cabling and terminations are not cheap either! It wouldn't be that much easier to add a third battery if starting with two than it is to add two more, because most of the work is fabricating the support for the top bank.
You could make it considerably easier if you just added a shelf, instead of a slide, but having had the batteries in and out several times while doing the basement/bulkhead project, I have a strong appreciation of the slide out that came with the coach. At 160 lbs. apiece, it is a lot easier (not saying it is easy!) to load and unload the battery with the slide out extended, particularly without the bus style compartment doors. It figures to be doubly so for the top bank. I have a lift table from Harbor Freight now, that makes the process of removing or installing the batteries much easier than it was the first few times I did it. Having a slide on the upper tier and a Harbor Freight hydraulic lift table makes the job of lading the top bank almost easy.
The project was made a bit more difficult because I want to wire each battery to a set of bus bars rather than paralleling all four, and I want to be able to slide them out without disconnecting the battery terminals, as there won't be much room to reach the back batterie's terminals.
That last part makes this a bit of an engineering challenge. The difficulty is in trying to arrange the upper level to allow the cables room to move with the slide, as well as having room to mount the bus bars. John H. made bus bars for his set up out of ⅜" X 2" wide copper, and while I considered going to ½", the ampacity rating of the ⅜" is more than adequate (copper busbar ⅜" thick X 2" wide has ampacity of over 900 DC Amps) and with space so constrained for cable management, every fraction of an inch matters. By the way, all battery cables are 4/0 Marine tinned copper (normal welding cables would be fine for this application, and quite a bit less costly... but I like the idea of never having to worry about corrosion, and the quality and flexibility of the high grade marine cables is second to none). I make my own cables and have the appropriate crimper to do the job. There are other means of terminating the cables, but a 360º crimp with quality lugs is the best option in my opinion.
The design for the slide that I came up with is different than the ones that Foretravel made for the three battery setups on non-slide coaches of our vintage. They made a support out of angle iron that goes all the way across the compartment and mounted the slide on top of it. This places the slides under the battery tray. In trying to keep the battery tray as low as possible (because of the hinged compartment doors on our U270 that have been acting as DNA collectors since we bought the coach), I elected to mount the slides on each side of the battery tray. To give the cables room to move with the slide, I bolted the left side slide support directly to the partition wall between the batteries and the fuel tank. I used 1" X 2" X ⅛" thick walled rectangular tubing to mount the stationary part of the 500lb full extension lock in/lock out slides that I bought on eBay.
I started the process by deciding to extend the partition that separates the fuel tank from the batteries in order to have the upper battery slide supported all the wall to the front.
This was not strictly necessary, but as I plan to add a few 4" wide aluminum shelves in front of the fuel tank for misc. fuel additives etc., I used some rectangular aluminum 1" X 2" X ⅛" thick walled aluminum tubing. I used two pieces on edge to create the 4" extension. I drilled two holes all the way through both prices of tubing and then enlarged the outermost hole on the outside piece to allow a screw head to ft through. I drilled edge of the steel ¾" thick tubing of the partition with ⅜" drill bit and installed ¼"-20 Rivet Nuts and fastened the two sections of aluminum tubing on edge with 3" long stainless screws. I made a trim piece out of ¼" thick X 1" wide aluminum rectangular stock and attached this to the outer rectangular tube with ¼" flat head Allen screws to hide the large holes through which the 3" long screws were inserted.
The next step was to use magnets to mark the framing of the side walls of the battery compartment, though I had already explored the the framing layout with a magnet when deciding how to approach supporting the upper slide.
As I suspected, there was horizontal framing at the exact place needed on both sides of the compartment for supporting a second tier of batteries. Foretravel apparently framed all three models of the Unicoaches with the same basic layout and since the U295's and U320's came with a second layer of batteries, the U270 had the required infrastructure in place. Thank you Foretravel! Next, I welded a piece of 3" X 3/16" flat stock to the 1" X 3" X ⅛" rectangular tubing that I used for the 500lb. full extension slide supports, and that 3" flat stock is attached to the wall at the back of the compartment.
Side note: The walls at the back of the battery and propane compartments consist of a ¾" X 1 ½" rectangular steel framed partitions with a ¾" plywood insert with a fiberglass skin bonded to both sides. The space created by these two partitions is a little nook accessible in the center portion of the front wall of the storage bay of our 36' coach. These partitions are extremely important as they provide the vertical longitudinal stiffness to counteract the pull of the rear axle control arms which tugs on the rear bulkhead joint with every bump and application of the retarder.
I used three 1 ½" X ¼" carriage bolts through the middle section of the back support and some ¼"-20 allen button head cap screws threaded into the perimeter steel frame of the back wall. On the right side, where the cables must be free to move over the range of the 20" full extension slides, I welded a support which spans both the horizontal steel frame member and the diagonal frame member on the left side wall in the front of the compartment. I also added 3/16" thick aluminum plates to the side wall which is screwed to the steel framing under neat the fiberglass skin to provide a surface to screw the bus bars to and to provide extra support to the battery slide. I drilled and tapped all mounting supports using ¼"-20 and 5/16"-18 allen head stainless steel fasteners in various locations.
I then proceeded with the fabrication of the battery slide tray, finished welding the frame and did several test fits.
When I was satisfied with the fit, I removed and disassembled the components and painted the frame and slide tray.
I fabricated the busbars after deciding how to minimize the cable connections and provide busbar isolation.
I had it in my head that I would like to be able to monitor the individual batteries so I could catch any problems as early as possible. Since the voltage would read the same for all as long as they were connected as bank, I decided to kill two birds with one stone and use four 500 amp 50 mv Deltic current shunts to provide most of the support for the negative busbar.
The shunts will enable me to add current monitoring at a future dated without modifying the busbar set up. Since one end of each shunt is bolted directly to the negative busbar, that saved me having to make four cables and finding the space to put them (I doubt that it would even be possible to accomplish this in the limited space available). Each shun is screwed to the aluminum plates underneath with two number 10-32 machine screws and the shunts have ⅜" -16 flat head allen screws countersunk into the copper busbars. There is also one additional Blue Sea ⅜" isolated heavy duty terminal normally used for connecting two or more heavy cables used as a isolating mount at the lower end of the negative busbar, mainly to make the installation hole drilling for mounting the shunts easier. In other words, I drilled and tapped the aluminum plate for the two holes of the Blue Sea isolator, bolted the copper busbar to it and then positioned the shunts which were already attached to the busbar at this point to mark the shunt mounting holes for drilling.
Side note: One of the difficulties you run into when trying to position components for mounting is that the drill bit tries to wander just enough to ruin your plan, especially when you are drilling on a vertical surface with awkward access as in the battery compartment. I countered this by making steel templates for drilling the holes outside of the compartment. I then would drill the first hole after center punching the desired location, at which point a drill and tap that hole. I would then screw the template through the appropriate hole, choose one of the holes in the template and mark it. After I drilled and tapped the second hole, I would then have the template attached firmly enough to drill the rest of the holes and have them end up exactly where I wanted them.
I then determined the minimum length of the battery cables to allow full extension of the slides and added about 2" which resulted in 36" long battery cables.
This added to the approximately 42" long inverter cables is about the same as the 72" inverter cable used on the original inverter cables, but minus the interconnects between the two batteries of the factory install since each battery has its own pair of cables connected to the busbar system to which the inverter cables are connected. On the positive bus bar, I used one of the Blue Sea isolated terminal posts and the one end of the 400 amp Class T fuze as bus bar isolation. I then tapped ⅜" -16 holes in the copper to connect the positive cables to the back side of the busbar to keep the profile as low as possible. I tapped a few extra holes to give some different options for cable management. I also decided to add a heavy duty battery disconnect switch to completely remove the house battery bank from the rest of the coach. I am still not entirely happy with the cable management, and will revisit that when I have some more time. I can at least extend and retract the trays without disconnecting any cables, though I have to help guide the cables a little in the process.
Finally, the "beauty" shots of the finished project (well, done for now...)
Project notes;
I got the cables, power lug terminals, battery cable ends, crimper and a few other items for this from Bay Marine Supply in San Diego. The owner of the business, Alan who is a commercial member of our forum, is always helpful and generally has the best prices I can find on the majority of the items I have researched, and sometimes far better than the best internet pricing I could find. Previously, I had installed a Magnum MSH3012M 3000W / 125A Hybrid Pure Sine Wave Inverter/Charger an Magnum MMP MiniPanel, Class "T" fuse, ARC50 advanced remote control, Magnum BMK battery monitor and some other related bits and pieces that I also from Bay Marine Supply. Alan was also great to bounce ideas off as he comes from the marine side of the equation which usually has more stringent standards when it comes to electrical items.
Links;
Wire, cable, and terminals (http://baymarinesupply.com/store/electrical/wiring/wire.html)
FTZ Heavy Duty Lug Crimp Tool (http://baymarinesupply.com/store/electrical/wiring/electrical-tools/ftz-lug-crimp-tool.html)
1000 lbs. Capacity Hydraulic Table Cart (http://www.harborfreight.com/1000-lbs-capacity-hydraulic-table-cart-69148.html)
Electrical: Busbar - DC Copper Busbar Ampacities (http://www.copper.org/applications/electrical/busbar/busbar_ampacities.html)
Amazon.com : Blue Sea Systems HD-Series Heavy Duty On-Off Battery Switch :... (http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems-HD-Series-Battery/dp/B000MMDLB6)
Title: Re: Installing 4 batteries and a busbar setup in a 99’ 36 foot U270
Post by: dougself on September 03, 2015, 05:30:37 pm
Post by: dougself on September 03, 2015, 05:30:37 pm
Wow. What a great post and story!
Can't wait for the next one.
Can't wait for the next one.
Title: Re: Installing 4 batteries and a busbar setup in a 99’ 36 foot U270
Post by: Don & Tys on September 03, 2015, 05:34:45 pm
Post by: Don & Tys on September 03, 2015, 05:34:45 pm
I can't seem to get the images inline to post without having the text look like an ink blot test! ??? I tried adding spaces, removing commas between pictures, adding returns, etc. There was some effect, but not what I hoped for... oh well, If I can figure it out, I will give another try later. Hopefully, it will be of some interest even so...
Don
Don
Title: Re: Installing 4 batteries and a busbar setup in a 99’ 36 foot U270
Post by: lgshoup on September 03, 2015, 06:39:55 pm
Post by: lgshoup on September 03, 2015, 06:39:55 pm
As usual it looks great. I do wonder where the cup holder for the blue cup in the first photo fits. I kept looking but never did see it. ^.^d
Title: Re: Installing 4 batteries and a busbar setup in a 99’ 36 foot U270
Post by: Peter & Beth on September 03, 2015, 06:51:37 pm
Post by: Peter & Beth on September 03, 2015, 06:51:37 pm
As usual, great work Don. My shop teacher father-in-law (RIP) would have given you an A+ on this project as well as the bulkhead repair you did in past times. He taught HS industrial arts and was a journeyman welder himself.
Title: Re: Installing 4 batteries and a busbar setup in a 99’ 36 foot U270
Post by: lenspeiser on September 03, 2015, 07:02:49 pm
Post by: lenspeiser on September 03, 2015, 07:02:49 pm
Great job, Don. Way above my knowledge level, but maybe someday! One thing I did catch onto is about the hinges on the door. We have the same "DNA collectors" on our U270. I checked to see if I could get some bus style hinges from FOT, and was told they were nla. I am hoping at some point to design and fabricate my own, so I will keep you posted.
Title: Re: Installing 4 batteries and a busbar setup in a 99’ 36 foot U270
Post by: Don & Tys on September 03, 2015, 07:27:46 pm
Post by: Don & Tys on September 03, 2015, 07:27:46 pm
If I ever get a close up look at an American Eagle at a salvage yard, I think I might grab 6 of them and see about modifying them to fit...
Don
Don
Great job, Don. Way above my knowledge level, but maybe someday! One thing I did catch onto is about the hinges on the door. We have the same "DNA collectors" on our U270. I checked to see if I could get some bus style hinges from FOT, and was told they were nla. I am hoping at some point to design and fabricate my own, so I will keep you posted.
Title: Re: Installing 4 batteries and a busbar setup in a 99’ 36 foot U270
Post by: lenspeiser on September 03, 2015, 07:44:08 pm
Post by: lenspeiser on September 03, 2015, 07:44:08 pm
Maybe this should be a new topic, but when the "Forewheelers" showed us their coach while we were at MOT, they had bus style hinges on their unit. It appeared that the bay door height was the same, so maybe we could get them to supply some pix and measurements.
Title: Re: Installing 4 batteries and a busbar setup in a 99’ 36 foot U270
Post by: Don & Tys on September 03, 2015, 09:34:24 pm
Post by: Don & Tys on September 03, 2015, 09:34:24 pm
Larry, the cup holder in that picture is a 160 lb battery... very inconvenient to bring into the coach, so only in use when I am working down there LOL!
Don
Don
As usual it looks great. I do wonder where the cup holder for the blue cup in the first photo fits. I kept looking but never did see it. ^.^d
Title: Re: Installing 4 batteries and a busbar setup in a 99’ 36 foot U270
Post by: Forewheelers on September 03, 2015, 09:35:29 pm
Post by: Forewheelers on September 03, 2015, 09:35:29 pm
Len , you might call foretravel parts dept. and get them to send a schematic diagram of the inside hardware to see if it would adapt to your existing doors. Some body has probably made this change but it might be good to see what it would entail.
Title: Re: Installing 4 batteries and a busbar setup in a 99’ 36 foot U270
Post by: lgshoup on September 03, 2015, 10:07:45 pm
Post by: lgshoup on September 03, 2015, 10:07:45 pm
Silver Eagle is still in business in TN. Google them
Title: Re: Installing 4 batteries and a busbar setup in a 99’ 36 foot U270
Post by: John Haygarth on September 03, 2015, 11:55:35 pm
Post by: John Haygarth on September 03, 2015, 11:55:35 pm
Hey Don my Friend, way to go on this project. Glad to see the Bars working out in Vertical position and pretty much how I figured it would have to be. Well done.
Ruth say's that she too would need another living space while you do these major changes., and good for Tys putting her foot down!!
Take care U 2
JohnH
Ruth say's that she too would need another living space while you do these major changes., and good for Tys putting her foot down!!
Take care U 2
JohnH
Title: Re: Installing 4 batteries and a busbar setup in a 99’ 36 foot U270
Post by: Don & Tys on September 04, 2015, 02:21:43 am
Post by: Don & Tys on September 04, 2015, 02:21:43 am
Larry,
I was referring to Fleetwood American Eagle. Before I heard of Foretravels, I was looking at some mid 90's American Eagles... as far those era SOB's go, they looked to be classier than most of the run of the mill Holiday Rambler, Safari, Gulfstream, etc. types. But once I found out about Foretravels and the Retarders, air disc brakes, 8 outboard airbags, quality cabinetry, etc., there was no going back. The one thing that first caught my eye about the American Eagles was the bus style cargo doors. Maybe my scalp was trying to tell me something... ::) Anyway, there are a whole lot more of these mid 90's "Eagles" around than Unicoaches, so I figure that sooner or later I will come across one being parted out. If not, I may have to fabricate my own parallelogram hinges... but I wouldn't want Tys to become "unhinged" by the process... so I will just keep doing my projects and leaving pieces of my scalp behind on the latches of the compartment doors and maybe someone from the future will clone me from the DNA.
Don
I was referring to Fleetwood American Eagle. Before I heard of Foretravels, I was looking at some mid 90's American Eagles... as far those era SOB's go, they looked to be classier than most of the run of the mill Holiday Rambler, Safari, Gulfstream, etc. types. But once I found out about Foretravels and the Retarders, air disc brakes, 8 outboard airbags, quality cabinetry, etc., there was no going back. The one thing that first caught my eye about the American Eagles was the bus style cargo doors. Maybe my scalp was trying to tell me something... ::) Anyway, there are a whole lot more of these mid 90's "Eagles" around than Unicoaches, so I figure that sooner or later I will come across one being parted out. If not, I may have to fabricate my own parallelogram hinges... but I wouldn't want Tys to become "unhinged" by the process... so I will just keep doing my projects and leaving pieces of my scalp behind on the latches of the compartment doors and maybe someone from the future will clone me from the DNA.
Don
Silver Eagle is still in business in TN. Google them
Title: Re: Installing 4 batteries and a busbar setup in a 99’ 36 foot U270
Post by: Rick & Robyn on September 04, 2015, 09:19:55 am
Post by: Rick & Robyn on September 04, 2015, 09:19:55 am
once I found out about Foretravels and the Retarders, air disc brakes, 8 outboard airbags, quality cabinetry, etc., there was no going back.
+1
Title: Re: Installing 4 batteries and a busbar setup in a 99’ 36 foot U270
Post by: Don & Tys on September 04, 2015, 04:04:07 pm
Post by: Don & Tys on September 04, 2015, 04:04:07 pm
The park where we are was experiencing some power outages the other day, so I turned off the pedestal 50 amp breaker and the solar just because I wanted to do a very unscientific test of the new battery bank. With the inverter on and the marine style fridge running on DC, the battery SOC was showing as 100% on the battery monitor when I turned all the charging sources off. After being unplugged overnight and half a day or so, the SOC was still at 91%. Voltage was 12.6 vdc after I turned it of and was still 12.5 vdc when I looked at it a little while ago. Still figuring out how to best use the Magnum BMS, but I reset the amp hours out when I turned the charging off and was showing 81 amp hours out when I just looked. Minimal loads because we aren't staying in the coach right now, but the fridge was on and all the coach dc breakers are on (such as the LP detector etc.). Time will tell, but I am pretty happy with that so far. I think I will keep the test going for awhile longer...
Don
Don
Title: Re: Installing 4 batteries and a busbar setup in a 99’ 36 foot U270
Post by: John Haygarth on September 04, 2015, 06:38:04 pm
Post by: John Haygarth on September 04, 2015, 06:38:04 pm
Don, when we park overnight say from 6pm till 8am with the fridge running and lights on and watch a dvd for an hour and inverter on for coffee in morning, the reading I get is usually 86% to 88% and that is with all LED lights and 3- 8Ds-Lifeline make. I run thr fridge and all else overnight on the 1000watt extra inverter I put under bed. It uses way less operating/standby power than the 2500 Xantrax.. For the coffee and toast etc I flip on the main one. I have found this to conserve a lot of power. If the sun is out we are back to 100% SOC in a few hrs.
JohnH
JohnH
Title: Re: Installing 4 batteries and a busbar setup in a 99’ 36 foot U270
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on September 04, 2015, 06:48:52 pm
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on September 04, 2015, 06:48:52 pm
Don, I think you have a fine setup with the 4 batteries, my only concern would be the weight & balance due to all that weight on one side. Just a question, but I do like the looks of it.
Congrats
Congrats
Title: Re: Installing 4 batteries and a busbar setup in a 99’ 36 foot U270
Post by: John Haygarth on September 04, 2015, 06:56:22 pm
Post by: John Haygarth on September 04, 2015, 06:56:22 pm
Dave, I think Don is countering that weight by moving all his cash over to other side along with his tools!!
JohnH
JohnH
Title: Re: Installing 4 batteries and a busbar setup in a 99’ 36 foot U270
Post by: Don & Tys on September 04, 2015, 07:16:08 pm
Post by: Don & Tys on September 04, 2015, 07:16:08 pm
Thanks Dave. I have given that some thought... one reason I wanted to go to the Lithium battery tech was to keep the weight to a minimum. 1000 AH would have weighed in at about 40 lbs. more than the two 8d AGMs and given 800 AH usable capacity for three times as many cycles, vs. the 980 AH of the current setup with only about 490 AH being in the usable zone. Still, the 490 AH is more than twice what we had before... who knows how many cycles we will get out of them. When we did the wheel weights at SKP's in Livingston after leaving Nac, we were about 170 lbs. heavier on the passenger front than the drivers side. So if nothing else changed between now and then, we would be about that much heavier on the driver's side now. But since then, I installed a tool box on the curb side so I can't really say until we weigh again. I could juggle the load around quite a bit to change the weight bias, but I would be just guessing until we do wheel weights again. We were 1200 lbs. under over all, with a 1000 lbs. under on the front axle.
Don
Don
Don, I think you have a fine setup with the 4 batteries, my only concern would be the weight & balance due to all that weight on one side. Just a question, but I do like the looks of it.
Congrats
Title: Re: Installing 4 batteries and a busbar setup in a 99’ 36 foot U270
Post by: Don & Tys on September 04, 2015, 07:17:00 pm
Post by: Don & Tys on September 04, 2015, 07:17:00 pm
I wish!
Don
Don
Dave, I think Don is countering that weight by moving all his cash over to other side along with his tools!!
JohnH
Title: Re: Installing 4 batteries and a busbar setup in a 99’ 36 foot U270
Post by: coastprt on September 04, 2015, 07:32:20 pm
Post by: coastprt on September 04, 2015, 07:32:20 pm
Don,
You never cease to amaze me. Bill Chaplin told me that you were one of those kind of guys that could do anything handy he set his mind to. After seeing your previous mod work in Nacogdoches and this project here you certainly have lived up to your reputation!
A project well thought out, carefully planned, and executed to near perfection.
Jerry
You never cease to amaze me. Bill Chaplin told me that you were one of those kind of guys that could do anything handy he set his mind to. After seeing your previous mod work in Nacogdoches and this project here you certainly have lived up to your reputation!
A project well thought out, carefully planned, and executed to near perfection.
Jerry
Title: Re: Installing 4 batteries and a busbar setup in a 99’ 36 foot U270
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on September 04, 2015, 07:40:50 pm
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on September 04, 2015, 07:40:50 pm
John H, Soo correct about the weight of the cash off setting the inbalance, but moving some over sure would
tip the scales, and a few little hand tools too. ;D
tip the scales, and a few little hand tools too. ;D
Title: Re: Installing 4 batteries and a busbar setup in a 99’ 36 foot U270
Post by: Don & Tys on September 04, 2015, 11:25:33 pm
Post by: Don & Tys on September 04, 2015, 11:25:33 pm
Thanks Jerry. Bill is very kind to say that and I wouldn't want to disappoint him. I try my best every time, and sometimes it works out. I am pretty happy with the result and look froward to a Quartzsite in January where I can kickback with no generator worries. Not only does it work reliably now, but with the four 8D's and the solar, I doubt I will even need to run it.
Don
Don
Don,
You never cease to amaze me. Bill Chaplin told me that you were one of those kind of guys that could do anything handy he set his mind to. After seeing your previous mod work in Nacogdoches and this project here you certainly have lived up to your reputation!
A project well thought out, carefully planned, and executed to near perfection.
Jerry
Title: Re: Installing 4 batteries and a busbar setup in a 99’ 36 foot U270
Post by: John Haygarth on September 04, 2015, 11:31:35 pm
Post by: John Haygarth on September 04, 2015, 11:31:35 pm
Don, I do not use ours so you sure should not need to. Have you changed over to all LED's yet?
JohnH
JohnH
Title: Re: Installing 4 batteries and a busbar setup in a 99’ 36 foot U270
Post by: Don & Tys on September 05, 2015, 12:00:27 am
Post by: Don & Tys on September 05, 2015, 12:00:27 am
John,
Nope... but we only use the LED's that I have changed because the fluorescents bother Tys. I guess I am saving the easy projects for last ::) but maybe by the time Q rolls around, I will have it done.
Don
Nope... but we only use the LED's that I have changed because the fluorescents bother Tys. I guess I am saving the easy projects for last ::) but maybe by the time Q rolls around, I will have it done.
Don
Don, I do not use ours so you sure should not need to. Have you changed over to all LED's yet?
JohnH
Title: Re: Installing 4 batteries and a busbar setup in a 99’ 36 foot U270
Post by: Tony Pasquale on September 05, 2015, 11:01:46 am
Post by: Tony Pasquale on September 05, 2015, 11:01:46 am
Hi Don,
Well thought out project and fantastic write up!
Thank you as always for sharing, hope to see you and Tys in Quartzsite.
Tony
Well thought out project and fantastic write up!
Thank you as always for sharing, hope to see you and Tys in Quartzsite.
Tony
Title: Re: Installing 4 batteries and a busbar setup in a 99’ 36 foot U270
Post by: Don & Tys on September 05, 2015, 11:47:18 am
Post by: Don & Tys on September 05, 2015, 11:47:18 am
Hi Tony,
Thanks for the kind words... and thanks for sharing your power last year at the "Q". Looking froward to next "Q" and being able to relax and enjoy ourselves more this time without worrying about the batteries or generator issues. See you there!
Don
Thanks for the kind words... and thanks for sharing your power last year at the "Q". Looking froward to next "Q" and being able to relax and enjoy ourselves more this time without worrying about the batteries or generator issues. See you there!
Don
Hi Don,
Well thought out project and fantastic write up!
Thank you as always for sharing, hope to see you and Tys in Quartzsite.
Tony