Thanks Tim -
The more I think about this project with behind the scenes help from Roger, in Home2, the more I think I can get it done. Although I am saying that at 5:50PM today and my thoughts might be different tomorrow.
My door opening is: 27" and the new box without doors is 23.625 so I wouldn't need to remove the window.
I can certainly cap off the LP line and move the electrical boxes behind the drawers under the gas cook top as well as build a short platform for the new refer to sit on.
I am sure I can find a local wood shop to mill some trim pieces out of cherry for me.
I can acquire the help of 2 young bucks to help me and my buddy Bill move the one out and the other in.
Everything else is a matter of details. Right???????
The plot thickens. ;D
Moderators -
I guess this thread has lived it's life and has taken on another.
Should it be split in another: How to install your own Res. Refer.?
Well if you try this yourself, and are around Houston, let us know and maybe I can lend a hand. I'm not a young buck, but I act like one sometimes.
I was able to do my own new unit, with the great photos and info from Roger. With the help of 2 friends the old unit came out. and with 3 friends the new unit went in thru the side window. Of course having access to Bill Chaplin's shop, and tools was a huge help as well.
I chose to do a full 33" replacement for my old 33" unit. Samsung had a unit that was the correct width, all I had to do was remove the shelf under the old unit and build the correct height new floor for the new taller unit. I love the new look, and the unit, and smile each and every time I open it for anything or more ice cubes.
I installed a 350# Bosch side by side, counter depth, by myself.
I have a 95 with the 24" doors. The fridge is 24" wide without the doors.
I removed the doors and all the inside racks, drawers, and ice-maker. I removed the Foretravel door and the wood entrance hand-grip by the passenger seat. I also removed the passenger seat.
My wife and I were able to wrestle it in.
If you do this, Let the refrigerator sit for about a day(not plugged in) so the oils can settle back to were they are supposed to be.
Check to see if you need a platform to raise the refrigerator over any existing drain lines, Make sure you buy a unit that is NOT too tall, you will lose some height because of the Foretravel sloped roof at the rear of the refrigerator.
Make sure you can open your refrigerator doors enough to get the shelf's in and out and to service the ice maker.
I can't imagine paying 2 days labor to do this, unless you have no choice.
I'm sure that after your installation if you measured the cabinet work that might need to be done, you could find somebody with a table saw to cut the proper lumber for the face of the cabinets, or check with a cabinet maker to do the finish work.
20 - 22 hours seems like a LOT of labor for a refrigerator change - Mine was in and out in 1/2 day at Parliament with 2 (and occasionally 3 or more) guys working on it. 8 hours estimated, 8 hours charged, included modifying space, building shelf, trim work.
I also had a counter depth installed (do't we all?) they removed the window aft of the entry door and took doors off both refrigerators, they positioned a forklift with LONG forks with Plywood on the forks outside the window with the plywood about even with the bottom of the window, four guys grabbed the old one (two inside and two outside) and slid it thought the window to the waiting forks, He lowered it to the ground and they took the old one off the forks and laid the new one on the forks. Reverse the process and maybe 2 minutes later the new one was in the coach. The refrigerator was not on it's side more than 90 seconds. We did let it sit for 2+ hours before we plugged it in with no ill effects.
The window took them about 8-10 minutes to remove from the coach (one guy on a short scaffold) and maybe 15 to re-install.
I had the refrigerator with the matching walnut wood panels from the factory - was easy for them to use those doors to cut the pieces for the trim - no matching or staining required!
That being said, for the extra $1,000, you won't be unhappy with FT or MOT, they have done them by the bunches, or if you are handy and patient DIY
In my experience when quoted/estimated in $$$ or time the bill will eventually exceed the amount quoted. Also regardless of the amount of work required the estimate/quote will grow to cover any contingency that might occur. I can not fault their thinking. I'm quite sure if I were to drive the coach up to Nac and have FOT and MOT look at our configuration - the estimate/cost would probably be less. That being said I am gearing up to do it myself. :D
I have had a lot of work done on two coaches up at FOT ( but not a frig update). In the last three years, they have never come in over their estimate--- always below. I did ask David in the remodel shop about replacing the Dometic frig with a residential unit. His estimate was $4-5 coach bucks with him providing the new fridge and doing the entire job. Too pricy for me, so I'll have to do my own as well. It is nice to know that their estimates are accurate though.
Kemahjohn, have you found a residential fridge that fits? I have a side by side, Dometic RM7030 which may be what you have in your 1996.
My statement regarding actual costs exceeding charges was a general statement based on my life experience with many companies both personally and professionally.
I believe if given the opportunity for inspection both FOT and MOT would adjust their estimate/quote to reflect actual charge.
Nuff Said.
Buying apples from someone selling oranges when what you want is peaches rarely works out. Make sure the expectations and deliverables are very specific and understood by all. Usually works better.
Having done one and only one refrigerator r/r myself that included quite a bit of cabinet work, custom trim, a sliding door to cover the side wall vent and adjustments to plumbing and wiring in about 22 hours any of these times seem plausible depending on what they might do. Pretty basic for 8-10 hours.
If you are willing to do it yourself there is enough in savings to pay for the refrigerator.
Saw these some where on the FoFum and looked for hours trying to re-find them again. We will use these to secure our doors underway.
Picasa Web Albums - Robert Nodine - Travel Straps (https://picasaweb.google.com/102818402720431077518/TravelStraps#5648447279000774402)
Scott, Maybe more than you need. Try a 1" velcro strap first. Our doors have never come open with ours. You can always beef it up.
Roger -
As usual - Thanks for your comments. We are mostly concerned with the bottom freezer door. Your solution is great and we purchased that door lock first. I had seen the other type a week or so ago when I was researching "How to keep the freezer door closed" and lost it. Have been looking for hours to find it again and - re found it tonight.
We have purchased both styles from Amazon. One like you use on your bottom drawer and the one in the above link. There are things I like about both and things I don't like. We have VHB tape as well as 5200 adhesive to attach the door lock. Once the trim is on we will look at both and decide then. We have a Sailrite sewing machine so I can sew/construct any webbing and Velcro we choose. I like the idea of having equal pressure across the door and not on one side. :D
VHB tape worked well. The freezer door magnetic seal does most of the work, the sliding door latch makes sure.
Progress :D
Put 3/8" cap on the top LP gas line coming out of manifold in LP bay. The bottom copper line goes to the Gaganau. Have no clean out in the 1-1/2" ABS sink drain pipe behind the lower refer panel so have a full 24.250" from the drain pipe to the front of the face frame. So leaving 5/8" of the refer box in the room for trim is no problem. I will be able to place the 3/4" plywood on top of the cabinet rail and create the platform to place the refer on and still have about 2" above the refer door to open under the pocket door header. My local cabinet guy milled the sliding door frame that will be placed behind the outside refer vent - $40.00 - donation for one base ball lesson for his son. Will be able to use the 3/16" panel that covers the wiring and drain pipe under the Dometic for the sliding access panel. Will put some insulation on the back of that sliding door to keep some of the weather out. When I disconnected the nonfunctioning ice maker a few months ago I placed a slip disconnect 1/4 turn ball valve in the water line to stop the water flow. Turned the valve and have water coming out so will use another slip disconnect to connect the refer water line to the existing water line with the 1/4 turn valve. I will donate another $40 to the son's ball career to have the cherry trim milled that will go around the new refer. Will Pick up the cherry from a local Woodcrafter.
Still have to determin how to seal the outside refer vent cover. Will also cover some/most of the roof refer vent from the inside with insulation to limit the amount of air coming through there.
I will attempt to place an "L" on top of the new refer using 5200 and attach it to a 2 x 4 to stabilize the refer latterally. Don't know exactly how I will get that done as I don't know exactly how much room I will have above the new refer is in place.
Will move both electrical boxes that are behind the Dometic to under the drawer next to the refer. I am planning on placing a switch in the circuit so I can turn off the refer. Still have to determin which outlet to use and where to place the switch. Will check tomorrow.
Picking up the refer Sunday AM and the crew will be here at 9AM for the swap. Hope to have the new refer in place by noon or so. Taking out the passenger chair and bringing in through the door.
I will post a pic of the cabinet opening when the Dometic is out and will have the DW take some pics of the ordeal.
Getting closer. ;D
Thare are wires that come into the refrigerator roof vent opening from somewhere. That makes it a bit harder to seal up. I shaped and fit 1-1/2" pink foam blocks into the opening closing it up about 75%. Before we went out west this summer I removed the vent cover and used aluminum HVAC tape to cover the outside screen and the replaced the vent cover. Sealed it up well but with warm temps having it open would be nice.
If you are not using the coach in cold weather then closing the vent from the inside with foam might be enough.
Ideal solution would be some sliding vent opening cover. Closed while driving, open while parked.
We are installing an insulated sliding door that will be behind the refer in front of the refer vent. Larry does wonderful work. Ours probably won't be as pretty as his but I think it will work to limit hot and cold air from coming into the coach. Hopefully it will also stop some of our grilling smoke that usually sets off the smoke detector above the refer often when our large awning is extended. :D
My side wall vent has a sliding door closure. Because the residential refrigerator is not in a sealed cabinet like the Dometic was with the roof vent opening open when driving in cold weather we could feel the cold air coming in around the edges. With the roof vent closed we could feel some heat coming out around the edges when we were parked. So there has to some variable solution, one will emerge from the neural bucket when I get those little sparkers aligned. 🌝
I have been wondering if the roof vent is really necessary. I have read on other forums where folks have used spray foam around the refer sides and top to limit the amount of outside air coming into the coach around the refer. Although this might be a good idea I hate the thought of having to remove the foam and I wonder how much the foam would inhibit the air flow around the refer. If I recall Pierce had a TV installed where the outside vent is - so I would guess it would be OK to close it off permanently leaving only the roof vent.
Roger - I too have been scratching my noggin re: a slide type of roof vent closure. ???
To stop any cool air coming into coach around the fridge frame and walnut frame I (our fridge is black) used black silicone caulking all around to stop this and it works. never any draught and it helps to stabilize the unit too. You cannot see it unless you look really hard around edge. So, if you have a stainless unit used a grey or? type.
If you ever have to take fridge out just use a knife to slice the caulk.
JohnH
Thanks John - Our box is black too. The caulking is a thought. :D
When we first put out refrigerator in we tried it without the outside vent door. Huge amount of wind blowing in.
John idea of a caulk would work on the top and sides depending on how your trim fits. I don't think on the Samsung there would be any effective way of sealing the bottom. If the roof vent is open heat should exit and pull inside air along with it.
I expect to have about 1/2" to 5/8" of the box extending into the room and trim to about 1/8" around the box. Since our refer is 33" and I don't have a small cabinet taking up some of the 36" opening - our trim will be about 2-1/2"for the legs - not sure about the header yet - should be about the same. We will have a little extra room on each side of the refer. On one hand I want enough air flow for the mechanics to work but want to limit the heat and cold around the box from entering the coach. Not sure how to balance that. I will be using 3/4" plywood as a base which might provide me with additional air flow control????? Theoretically I guess I could close off the roof refer vent altogether and let the refer breath through the base opening and around the refer - although I would prefer the heat to exhaust out. The slide door behind the wall vent will open so I guess it would allow the heat to go out there, as Michelle mentioned - maybe a 12 volt fan or two behind the wall vent?????
Any and all thoughts/comments are appreciated. :D
You can always add fans but these use power. Passive is probably best. Heat rises naturally. A fan in the roof opening if required would be better. Maybe just a hinged flap that opens. It needs to seal when closed and be easy to open and not rattle. A puzzle.
Solar vent fan and...........................................................................some sort of hinged flapper thingy that can be operated from the inside?? It is a puzzle. :D
Here is an idea. Not sure if this will fit the width of the opening. It uses a 5-1/2" x 11-1/8" opening
Replacement Exterior Pop-Up Roof Vent - Steel - 13-1/2" x 8" - Black Redline... (http://www.etrailer.com/Enclosed-Trailer-Parts/Redline/9106.html)
Leave the existing roof vent in place. Mount this from underneath on the inside. Use something to pull the bar to open, push the bar to close. Something out there will work.
Good find. Need some sort of a 12 volt 45 to 90 degree rotational actuator - maybe a couple of limit switches for open/close functions with a toggle or rocker switch on the inside?????
This is way above my pay grade. Where is our mechanical/electrical engineer when we need one. :-D
I am thinking of a stick actuator. Or something like an awning hook. Or a cable left over from my third valve project. Or I have an air cylinder saved from my step replacement. (kind of complicated) ... Simplest, simpler or just simple. Those are the first choices. Then maybe more complicated.
I have had my Samsung for 6 months now. I closed off the outside wall vent with tape and insulation applied to the removable cover. That will work till I replace the cover with a new cover being used on new coaches without RV refers that has no opening in the cover.
I closed off the roof vent about 70%, thinking some heat needs to rise up and out of the cabinet. My 33" unit fits the 33" opening, but air can get under the unit and rise as it wants to exit at the roof. My side wall openings are about 1/4" wide, and I have done nothing to close, or seal them.
We have been in temps to 100, and lows now in the high 30's this summer. I am more than happy with the install, notice no wind noise, traveling or parked.
Hi Dave.
When you find the new cover without openings let us know where it comes from. I haven't found it yet.
I did pretty much the same with the venting on our install. I didn't close off the roof vent until July before we went out west. Having some opening on top is desireable when it is above freezing. We did notice cold air coming in while driving from -10° to Texas in January. Normally open most of the time would be fine. Having a simple way to close it some times and open it and leave it open for most times would be nice.
I guess that's when PMing would come in handy😜
I must admit that I have probably abused them too. Although they have always been there when I needed them.
Refrigerator doors are off and is defrosted. Pulled the 110vac plug and disconnected the 12 volt lines and the LP gas line. Also pulled two lag bolts from the back and two screws from the front. Will try to pull out in the AM. :D
Silicone will likely make it a bit of effort. If it just doesn't budge start looking for more screws/bolts. I think I found more in the back.
Almost ready for fun!
We have those vents on the roofs of the Armored trucks at work. VERY stiff and hard to open and close, they also leak. Its usually a STRONG two handed yank or push to operate them. and that's pulling sraight down or pushing straight up.
Well..... Got started this morning at about 9:30AM and the new refer was in place by 2PM. Still have the cherry trim to have milled and install but the rest is done. What a project. Loaded with fear, anticipation and a fair bit of planning, I am now breathing easier. I might be able to sleep tonight.
I did not get pics. Sorry - in reality there are no pics that I could have taken that aren't already here on the FoFum. Son Jacob was the ramrod and my Son-in-law was his helper. I outlined the job and Son Jacob took over and i stuck my head in the way a few times. Bill B. stopped by often to see the progress and to make himself available. BTW he did bring over a nice fan for the boys and he makes great sweet tea. ;D
High points -
- The white outlet behind the refer is the one we plugged into after moving the outlet under the drawers next to the refer. We did test that outlet using a multimeter with shore power off, inverter on and shore powrer on and inverter off.
- Cut off the old LP feed line behind the refer near the floor after capping it at the manifold in the LP Bay.
- Used 1 x 4s and 3/16 poplar to make a base. Used 4 sets. each set was: 2 - 1 x 4 (one on top of the other) and 1 - 3/16 x 2. These together were equivalent to the height of the refrigerator base rail then placed a 2" x 3" x 3/4" piece of plywood on top of that. Screwed it all down. We did have to shim up the back of the refer by 3/16" to have equal reveal around the face of the refer cabinet.
- Installed wood sliding door and works well - insulated on the back side.
- Filled 3/4 of the roof vent from the inside using rigid pink insulator that I bought from the Depot - comes in 2' x 2 ' squares and a healthy amount of Liquid Nails.
Sold the Dometic to a guy for $350 - so after expenses we are probably in for $1100. I did provide a small token of our gratitude of Son Jacob and Chris our Son-In-Law.
Sorry about the no pics. I had asked Carol to take some pics but she was busy doing other things. Once we started it was like a steam roller. The time flew by and then we were done. Well almost.
So there were 3 of us working about 5 hours. I figure I have another 1 to 2 hours to complete the job so that totals 17 hours. 17 hours at $110.00/hr = $1870/-. This was a simple install. Only wires to move was the outlet and all of the rest of the wires were tucked into existing space. Passenger chair removed and the new refer came in through the door. Given the two young bucks that we had available to horse the box around, I would do it the same way again. With a bunch of old guys like me I would definitely go in through the window.
As with most work we have done on our Ol Girl it has been done with the help and support of many FoFum members. A special thank you to Roger for his email and tel, cons. The job appeared to be something that I did not understand or want to understand but upon spending a lot of time on the forum and "Search" being one of my best friends, we were able to complete another job. This forum is amazing.
Thanks to all.the truck of the fellow
I will be pleased to answer any and all questions.
Scott, Carol and Harley Lil' pup. ^.^d
PS - The only snag occurred when Carol was setting up the new refer and found that she only had 1 door adjustable shelf. Evidently I instructed one of the boys to take ALL of the plastic bins on the kitchen table and put them in the fellows truck that bought the Dometic. OOOOOPS. We are meeting him tomorrow somewhere in Houston to retrieve our misplaced door shelves. ;D :facepalm:
(Another side note: I really like spell check.)
Install pic. Sorry............... :facepalm:
Two Thumbs up! 👍👍. Like I said, the hardest part is the anxiety, Can I really do this? Yes you can, one step at a time, think it through. Job well done. Just as I expected.
Roger - Thanks again. ^.^d
Just waiting to hear the ice fall in the tray. Our Dometic ice maker never did work so we are looking forward to having to NOT pay for ice. :dance:
Nice to have the story. Thanks. We will have to do ours but the real issue for us is finding an appropriate fridge. Or buy a U320 so I can install a Samsung. :P
I appreciate every DIY project as it bolsters my resolve.
Craig
Looks MAHVELOUS!!!!! Well done, kiddo!!! I LOVE my fridge, and the ice maker can be turned off when you have a full bin and are relying on just solar to power you. That fridge is working well for us.
But - But - But we don't have solar. :'(
Nice work Scott! Looks great.
see ya
ken
Finally got the trim milled, finished and installed. Job Complete. ;D
Pic attached
Looks great Scott..tell me more about your floor choice. I like it..!
Hans & Marjet - sent you a PM. :D
Looks great, Scott.
Thanx Roger.