Does anyone have any thoughts as to what if any fuel additives would be recommended for the Cummins M11-450hp?
I add 1ounces of 2 cycle 2T oil per gallon of diesel.
Cummins says nothing. I do put in Optilube. There is a post on here of some testing done. I will see if I can find it for you.
Here is a study results but search in the tech forums here and there is a few threads.
Lubricity Additive Study Results - Diesel Place : Chevrolet and GMC Diesel... (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/76-speciality-forums/64-maintenance-fluids/177728-lubricity-additive-study-results.html)
I use BioborJF microbiocide (unless I'm on a long trip and will be refueling regularly). I also typically buy my fuel at Love's or Pilot Flying J and that is biodiesel, which provides additional lubricity. I've found no need for any other additives.
Zip, nada, zilch, as per owners manual!
Lots of good prior discussion on the forum as well.
Per Caterpillar, Cummins, DD, etc no additives are required UNDER NORMAL CONDITIONS.
There are two exceptions:
When storing fuel over 2 months in summer or 3 in winter. Use a BIOCIDE such as BioborJF then completely fill the tank to minimize condensation. Marine stores have it, in our area, Academy is the least expensive place to find it.
If you will in the summer or fall and the fuel will then be cooled to below freezing in the winter, use an ANTI-GEL. Walmart carries PS brand.
Lon,
Did you actually mean two ounces for each gallon?
That would be 200 ounces for a hundred gallon fill up!
Trent
Thank you for the input. I ask because I have been using FPPF 90105 LUBRICITY PLUS in my Barth's 5.9 Cummins and wondered if others have used or recommend a similar product in an M11 Cummins.
Mike
I personally think you can throw out what the outdated owner's manual states. Back when they were written, there was no biodiesel and fuel stations that carried diesel were not as common. RVs may spend much of their life in storage so encounter fuel problems that trucks that are constantly driven don't. Also, here in California, because of the severe air pollution in the San Joaquin Valley, a percentage of biodiesel is added to the petroleum diesel to lower emissions. The biodiesel absorbs more water than the petroleum variety and gets out of spec much faster.
Our diesel fuel here in the States is not controlled like in Europe where a large percentage of the vehicles are diesel. In short, it's not as good from the plant, not stored as well and does not have frequent inspections at the dispensing facility. That is one of the reasons fuel taxes are higher abroad. The tradeoff is our diesel is cheap compared to most countries (except Venezuela).
So, with a higher possibility of water in the fuel (leading to algae formation), contamination and uneven batches of fuel, I like to put an additive in our tank every other fill up. Can't really comment on emulsifiers vs demulsifiers but some additives don't have either.
The vast majority of our cars don't have a fuel inspection/drain so most diesel RV owners don't take the time to check the see through bowl on the primary filter. It generally gives the first clue of water in the fuel system. Unfortunately, every time you fuel, it's like a roulette wheel. Just don't want to land on the water/algae number.
Remember, it's part of the preflight procedure for an aircraft owner to use a sight glass to check for water at each drain on the plane and also each time after fueling.
Pierce
I use a quart of ATF for every 100 gallons of diesel, which compensates for the low sulpher in the diesel (lubricity issue). I also add "diesel kleen" (in the grey bottle) for cleaning and performance. Today's low sulpher diesel needs help and there are numerous ways to do it, so pick one and stick with it. Is it needed? Well, only time will tell and our engines under either circumstance will probably outlast us all, but I feel better doing it. Have a great day ---- Fritz
What to do since the B20 fuel is better being sold at many truck stops ? Think the older mechanical engines can handle it better, Cummins has stated thay are OK with B5, so any updates on the B10, B15 and B20. Am all ears, thanks.
Read on a Diesel mag that the ISV was designed for B20. And a Daimler engineer stated their new DD5 & DD7 were designed for B20, he also stated, using B20 to expect about 375,000 miles, with #2 expect 500,000 before rebuilding. Might like to dig into this subject.
SORRY for the wrong info!
Its 1 oz per gallon
I add only 2T 2 cycle oil
I add NOTHING if I buy Bio-Diesel.
I (of course) put in some Amsoil additives (different ones) every now and again to help, and then when in Mexico use the regular Diesel and bring 10 galls back out and add that to tank when filling in US . I believe that the chart mentioned above is a good source for waste of money on many of the used lubricity additives some use.
JohnH
I do like Brett Wolfe says, Biocide when stored for a couple months or more (drive it once a month anyway) and as winter approaches in MN I switch to #1 diesel and add an anti-gel.
We got about 100 gallons of B15 in Salem Oregon and burned through it over the next few days eastbound to the Tetons No difference as far as I could tell.
As I understand it (I own a Mercedes diesel SUV that is limited to B5) is that any diesel engine is fine with Biofuel. But it is the diesel exhaust particulate filters that suffer from bio fuel exhaust ash build up. I don't recall MH's having an exhaust filter. (maybe the newest of the new have them) But of course the EGR issue can shorten the life of the engine as pointed out above. Although I have seldom heard of a MH with high enough mileage to encounter the 350K Bio fuel MTBF as compared with the 500K MTBF of dino fuel.
I use DEE-ZOL Diesel Additive from Bell Performance. one once per 10 gallons of diesel. Have used it since purchased the Foretravel. I avoid using Bio-Diesel. Cummins says can only use up to 5% Bio-Diesel. Most stations I have seen with Bio-Diesel don't know what percent they have. Often label on pump says 5-20% and so I move on.
Favorite brands of diesel treatment. (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=21814.msg163604#msg163604)
Thanks Michelle for the links to previous posts on fuel additives. :)
The Cummins guy said yesterday at the GV that any Cummins engine after 2002 was good up to B20. But he did say to buy fuel from places that sell a lot of it and to add a biocide if you are letting it sit very long (a couple of months). And he said #1 diesel or a mix in cold weather. He said Cummins neither recommends or doesn't any additives. It is up to you and the additive maker if the engine fails. The same with any add-ons to your engine that are not Cummins certified.
Like I said earlier, I use a full tank, mostly #1 in MN and biocide as storage season approaches.
Great post Roger -
He also said - do not store with BIO Diesel of any kind if you can avoid it - B5 at the most He recommended starting the engine every thirty days in storage, even if you couldn't move the coach and let it get up to 150 degrees minimum (i asked because my coach winters in FL and no one can drive it, but I can get it started - I know some will take issue with the advice, but I am the reporter here, not the newsmaker - he was a Cummins CS person
same advice on generator BTW - Cummins/Onan guy today suggests start every 30 days - with 5000W load on it -run for two hours then shut down
When running in a generator 24 hours a day setting, he suggests shutting generator down once a day, let cool, check fluids, start right back up. Said these generators designed with very long life cycles (numbers like 20,000 - 100,000 hours easily attainable) and WORST thing to do to the generator is not use it regularly. Said the most happy RV generator customers he talks to say they have a lot of hours on their genets and use them regularly.
I have 3000 hours on my generator, and that is what my Generator friend has always told me when I was running the genet 7 x 24 for 4-5 days on a hot summer NASCAR event. - I can afford the .5 - 1.0 GPH to stay cool, good to know lots of life should be left in my genet if I just use it and maintain it.
Your mileage may vary - but this was the advice we got over the last two days at GV
I use an additive every fillup - usually howes lubricator or diesel kleen from power service.
and I run my engine at least once a month driving enough to warm up..
and the generator rarely runs less than 3-5 days at a time. 600 hours so far from march till now. Will send the oil off for analysis when I do change it. Powertech says 100hrs... I think its still ok at 600.
Xp3
My brother moved his APU to his NEW tractor and now has in excess of 60000 hours on it, I figured if you bought a new Freigtliner Cascadia that you would get a new APU but that is not the case, looks like its a Cummins/Onan Generator.
Gary B
just returned from the Grandvention and the Cummins technical rep stated that there is no need for additives in the fuel due to low lubricity. He stated that today's fuel has all the lubricity needed for all Diesel engines.
Another topic that Cummins covered during their presentation was the need to change oil per the recommended interval not necessarily the mileage when operating a motorhome ss opposed to an over the road commercial rig. This due to the deterioration of the oil additives as time passes.
That's a tough one for me as I don't drive that many miles but do exercise the coach every 30 days weather permitting.
I'm confused about the fuel additive part from the Cummins guy. They said they do not recommend fuel additives, so why does Fleetguard sell their Asphaltene Conditioner for diesel fuel. They are part of Cummins Filtration right? They also sell a Diesel Fuel Injector Cleaner. Maybe he meant it is only needed if a Fleetguard product??
I just want to know what we need to keep our engines running well with the new fuels today. Obviously a lot of us have engines that were designed for different fuel, so how do we compensate for that?
I asked Triana at the Ladies Class, said add nothing unless for algae prevention if need. I asked Cummins two years ago, they said add none. I said, as you, they sell chemicals for such. The answer was a gentle laugh, well our chemical division does (implied I as I heard it, the engine side of the business does not)
mike
Thanks Mike- I guess its better to spend a few $ now on chemicals than big $$$$ on an engine later. ^.^d
That is what the Cummins Engine guy said at the GV as well. I add biocide to a full tank when stored for more than a couple of months (even though the coach gets out for exercise once a month) and fill with #1 diesel before winter storage plus some anti gel additive for whatever #2 was in the tank. All of this is about the cost of one set of filters. If you have had a black algae attack you won't hesitate with the biocide.
My 2 cents worth is,a 94 engine was designed for the fuel available at that time,the fuel now is different.I have read many of the
ads for fuel additives and one thing they all state is extra lubricant for the injection pump. We just had a member fork out $5800.00
for a new injection pump.Would an additive have helped,who knows.You would have to take 2 brand new foretravels and find 2
identical drivers and run one with an additive and one without and keep a record over the years to really know for sure.
For the price of the fuel additive I'm going to use it.
John44, we were just reporting what the Cummins guy said. He didn't differentiate between older and newer engines. He said Cummins has no opinion pro or con on any additives just that they weren't needed. He suggested checking if the additive manufacturer covers any engine damage attributable to the additive. Any that say they are approved by Cummins are not.
But if using an additive seems to be effective for your use then go for it. I know several classic aircraft owners who swear by putting some Marvel Mystery Oil in their av gas. A friend bought a 2003 FT about a year ago. It had a couple cases of fuel additive in the basement. Somebody thought it was a good idea.
In a perfect world there would be no need for any type of additive. I don't want to alarm anyone but the world isn't perfect. Moisture, algae,crap fuel from stations that sell 100 gals a month. Not perfect. As said here before I look for high volume truck stops to buy fuel at. If the coach sits for a length of time, I try to park it full of fuel and add a good algaecide.I usually follow the directions and add a pinch. Every few tanks I add some power service additive to disperse water.
Over a million miles as a semi owner operator I would say that fuel additives are a good thing if you look at the big picture. In my trucks that ran 100K+ a year they weren't as necessary as they are in my coach that sits more then it runs...
A lot of information on 2 stroke oil in diesel at "fuel expert.co.za
JD
Looked at the above posts website,it does not recommend 2 cycle oil in a diesel.There was nothing about ATF in diesels.
My observations are,if you want to add any additive ,add one that is made for diesel fuel,the price may even be cheaper for
the diesel additive.We would not put a diesel additive in a 2 stroke gas tank.
I thought some, maybe one, of you would enjoy this testing and discussion of Biobor JF. I continue to research, watch, the biocide options......I add some at times.
Diesel Additives - Practical Sailor Print Edition Article (http://www.practical-sailor.com/issues/37_32/features/Diesel-Additives_11083-1.html)
I second the Power Service additives they work good. I use the grey bottle in my Semi and the RV.
While nice to protect from corrosion, the biggest challenge is keeping the bugs from reproducing and killing any that may have been introduced. In winter, a gel fighting additive is also good to incorporate into the additive. With more and more biodiesel being used today, it's even more important to frequently use an additive as biodiesel absorbs much more water than 100% petro diesel. Service stations are usually years behind necessary changes for fuel storage. When traveling to a region using biodiesel, it's good to carry extra fuel filters as a high B number may cause existing fuel system deposits to loosen and travel to the filters.
Map showing high biodiesel location with info on the percentage (B number) of biodiesel below the map. Retail Map - Biodiesel.org (http://biodiesel.org/using-biodiesel/finding-biodiesel/retail-locations/retail-map)
Pierce
Has anyone got any opinions of Lucas products?
Let's look specifically at what you want to achieve:
1. If storing diesel fuel over two months in summer or three months in winter, absolutely use a BIOCIDE (Biobor JF is a popular one) AND make sure the tank if totally full to reduce condensation.
2. If storing diesel you purchased in summer or fall into winter, absolutely, add an ANTI-GEL. Walmart carries the PS brand.
Other than that, you get into "snake oil". Are the good/needed, etc becomes a very "emotional" decision.
If the diesel you buy will result in broken or worn injection parts, there would be trucks all over the side of the road. They drive enough miles, the vast majority with no additives that were the "regular diesel fuel" not good enough we would sure know about it.
Also, in writing, neither Cat nor Cummins recommend an additive. Do both offer one-- absolutely! Nothing wrong with an additional profit center.