Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Discussions => Topic started by: bigdog on September 18, 2015, 02:33:55 pm
Title: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: bigdog on September 18, 2015, 02:33:55 pm
The wife & I are in the market for a Motorcoach. We have heard a lot of good things about Foretravels & are looking for one to buy, But it seems that I have run across an issue with determining used Foretravel values.
Case in point. I found a dealer that has the following Foretravels: 1996 36' U295, $39,500. NADA at $17-20K 1997 36' U270, $39,500. NADA at $12-15K 1998 36' U270, $39,500. NADA at $17-20K 2000 36' U270, $53,500. NADA at $24-29K
Yet the 2001 40' U320 on the same site is priced at $84,500 has an NADA value at $119,000!!!! Something seems wrong with this.
I'm confused. How do I tell if a Foretravel is set at a fair price?
Title: Re: New member with a question
Post by: John S on September 18, 2015, 03:10:56 pm
There are not many FOretravels on the market that are used and they sell for more then book as do Born Free coaches. So many of the older coaches have had so many upgrades that you have to allow for them. For instance, some have already had fuel lines replaced and many have been remodeled inside too. MOT is a good source for pricing ideas.
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: Miz Dani on September 18, 2015, 03:55:17 pm
Too many variables, you have to take into consideration all that John just mentioned + mileage, upgrades inside & out, condition of all major components, & many other factors...some have doubled what they paid for their coaches (don't ask how I know this!) & are not done yet! So you can't really go by what 'the book' says, not in the case of Foretravels, they are all different, many custom built & modified. Check out Luxury Pre-Owned Motorhome Dealer for Foretravel Newell Country Coach. (http://www.motorhomesoftexas.com) (as John has referred you to) for a good idea of what some current coaches are going for & a list of their upgrades. Good luck, you cannot go wrong with this brand....considered by many "in the know" to be the finest built motor coaches on the planet....
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: GKCigar on September 18, 2015, 03:58:33 pm
I believe all of big dogs prices are from the MOT website?
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: Miz Dani on September 18, 2015, 04:08:41 pm
Yep, & those prices were just reduced very recently....the '99 by $10,000 & the 2000 by $11,000.....both look in fine condition....nice headlight upgrade on the newer one.... probably more upgrades but didn't take the time to read it all....am headed to Nac in Oct. (to MOT & FOT) & those 2 coaches are awfully tempting, just afraid I've got too much invested in this ol' girl to even sniff around at another one right now....still......
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: Michelle on September 18, 2015, 04:20:55 pm
NADA Values vs. Real World (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=14135.0)
Buying Process Improvement Discussion (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=15379.msg93173#msg93173)
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: GKCigar on September 18, 2015, 04:23:25 pm
My brother Gordon (gkemper) on the Foreforum is licking his chops for the 1996 u295.
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: Tim Fiedler on September 18, 2015, 04:24:33 pm
Shop a bit.
Usually coached at MOT are realistically priced
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: Jeff & Sandy on September 18, 2015, 05:24:26 pm
I lurked here for a year and learned as much as I could. As a result I decided only a FT would do. I bought my coach at MOT in June. My experience there was fantastic. They are honorable, fair and it felt good to do business with a company run as well as that one. I dealt with Mel and Jason at MOT. If I am ever in the market again for another Foretravel I will be calling Mel without hesitation.
Spend lots of time here learning: Foretravel Motorhome technical help and information links (http://www.beamalarm.com/foretravel-links/foretravel-technical-help.html)
NADA is pretty useless when it comes to pricing these classic coaches. Spend some time here researching to figure out what to look for and look out for. If not for this forum I wouldn't own a Foretravel. The coach has exceeded all of my expectations. I am grateful to own it and wouldn't change a thing if I was doing it again.
The members here are incredibly knowledgeable, patient and generous with their time, especially so with Newbs like myself.
Happy hunting!
Jeff
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: Dave and Nancy Abel on September 18, 2015, 05:26:00 pm
Howdy Bigdog, Here's a link to Elliot's great pricing schedule. I think it's pretty close and more real world. You may have to fill in a couple of dates. Coach financing chatter (split from 1996 Foretravel U270 For Sale) (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=19997.msg143753#msg143753) Good Luck, Dave A
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: bigdog on September 18, 2015, 06:22:44 pm
NADA Values vs. Real World (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=14135.0)
Buying Process Improvement Discussion (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=15379.msg93173#msg93173)
Thanks Michelle. Those links were interesting to read.
Yes these Foretravels were at MoT. I called MoT this morning and the salesman (Mel) said he gets calls nearly everyday concerning the very wonky pricing models at NADA. I could see that Mel was correct, But Mel had to put himself into the situation of telling a customer that, Yes it's double the book value. But it's worth it because the book is full of hooey. The poor guy is probably correct, But boy oh boy. Does that sound like the stereotypical used car salesman.
As I said. I'm sure Mel was on the up & up. As I priced out a 2000 Winnebago Ultimate 36'. It had an NADA value that was about 90% higher $43-52K than the 2000 Foretravel $24-29K at MoT
It just makes it very hard to do my due diligence to reassure not only me but my wife as well, that a seller is asking a fair price. Especially as we live in Walla Walla, Wa. Which means HUGE travel expenses to even go and poke my nose past the MH's door.
I may have to enlist the help of Miz Dani to poke around those coaches. And perhaps do a little very, very basic tire kicking for me. Hint, Hint
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: Carol & Scott on September 18, 2015, 06:44:07 pm
How would that schedule account for a 42" TV, upgraded Inverter/converter, new floor, recovered couch and res. refer. just to name a few. I think the value is in the mind of the owner and the prospective buyer. If the prospective buyer has no value in the upgrades/replacements then the added value is not perceived and therefore not paid for. However those upgrades/replacements would probably help to move the coach faster. Just my thoughts.
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: Miz Dani on September 18, 2015, 06:53:50 pm
Also keep in mind that we are still able to get parts & service on our coaches after 25+ years....can't say that about several other brands who've gone out of business over the years....so factory help is also always close at hand....a huge factor to consider. ^.^d
bigdog, just now saw your note above, thanks, but am not qualified, relatively new to FT's myself....there are many on here much more able (as we've discussed in PM's) to help you with kicking tires, etc. but you've also got plenty more 'homework' to do before you get to that stage....
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: Mike Leary (RIP) on September 18, 2015, 08:07:43 pm
The "x-factor" on buying a used coach is: "what paperwork is on-board, can you meet the previous owner(s) (POs) to get a handle on why they are selling her ?" In twenty-five years of owning an Airstream, I inspected prolly 50 coaches for others. Very few of them were "road ready". In other words, they were at the 80,000+ mark and had no service due at those miles: belts, hoses, etc. Easy to drop a few (o.k. LOTS) of money bringing her up to snuff. Finally, sit down and surf the net to see what era coach you're liking. You should get a handle on pricing, they will differ because of what I posted above. If you can find your choice where you can look her over, so much the better. When we retired the Airstream, I looked for our choice Foretravel all over the country, lucked out to find her in Phoenix, close to us. The fact that both the POs were no b.s. kind of guys and the paperwork and manuals were volumes convinced us this was our coach! We paid top dollar for her, no haggling (o.k., I tried), but got a beautiful coach I would not hesitate to go to Nova Scotia & back! Good luck, do your homework!
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: Michelle on September 18, 2015, 08:15:21 pm
I could see that Mel was correct, But Mel had to put himself into the situation of telling a customer that, Yes it's double the book value. But it's worth it because the book is full of hooey. The poor guy is probably correct, But boy oh boy. Does that sound like the stereotypical used car salesman.
As I said. I'm sure Mel was on the up & up.
Yup, he is (on the up & up). We have asked him questions on certain coaches and gotten straight answers. No typical salesman double-speak.
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: Jeff & Sandy on September 18, 2015, 09:19:33 pm
I found Mel to be the polar opposite of a stereotypical 'used car salesman'. I suggest that you spend some time learning about what these coaches are and how they are valued so you can take advantage of the knowledge that Mel would share with you.
You will find intrinsic value from upgrades and upkeep, not listed in a NADA guide. Every coach is as different as the owner(s) that owned them.
I assure you it will be worth the effort. You have already found the perfect place to learn.
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: kb0zke on September 18, 2015, 10:09:14 pm
Welcome, Bigdog. You are where we were a few years ago. As others have said, NADA is fine for high-volume vehicles, but lousy for low-volume ones. Try to find a NADA value for a Newell. I couldn't. The reason is that Newell only made coach #1500 this year, and they have been in business since the 60's. BTW, the same NADA question comes up on other low-volume brand-specific forums (Airstream, Bluebird, etc.).
Since you are kind of up in a corner of the country you will have to do a lot of your research online. Spend some time checking FOT, MOT, and PPL, as well as checking the classifieds on this forum. After a few months you will have a pretty good idea of what a Foretravel is really worth. When you get ready to purchase one, have Brett Wolf inspect it for you. Also let us know what you are looking at, because someone may well know the coach and can give you some inside information privately. Remember that an asking price is just that - an asking price. You may or may not want to pay that, and the seller may or may not be able to come down. Don't be afraid to offer what you think is a fair price. If the seller totally rejects your offer you can continue looking.
Our coach isn't really for sale, but recently someone asked me how much I wanted for it. I have him a reasonable (but on the high side) number. I didn't hear back from him. If he had, though, I wouldn't have come down much. On the other hand, if we were serious about selling it, I'd advertise it at the same figure, but I'd be willing to come down a bit more.
Keep researching and keep on asking questions. I haven't used this for a while, but when we were researching I asked a ton of questions. I kept saying that I'd rather ask a thousand questions before writing a large check than ask one question a thousand times after writing that large check. Enjoy the research and eventually the hunt.
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: krush on September 18, 2015, 10:27:33 pm
1997-1999 you're looking at 25-50k range. I missed a nice u320 1999 that sold for 47k. I think a forum member here bought it. I know somebody got a nice 1998 u270 for 29k out the door.
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on September 18, 2015, 11:15:47 pm
Part of the search process is discovering what all of the different years and models have in common and what differences there are. Looking at an ad is one thing but going to see as many coaches in person will give you a sense of how owners have taken care of their coach and why one coach will have a different price than one of the same model and year. Care, condition and updates make a big difference. Pride of ownership shows. Milage and gen hours do too but with very good care 80,000 or 150,000 may not make much difference.
The bottom line is that a coach is worth what a knowledgable buyer will pay. If you make an offer based on what you have seen during your search and can explain what your offer is based on the seller will take your offer more seriously. At that point a resonable negotiation will take place and if successful you will buy the coach you want.
Most suggest that you buy your last coach first. That means buy what you will be happy with. Size, features, age, slides or not and floorplan. We studied and searched for almost four years. Five years after we bought our coach we are still learning. This forum is probably the best reason to buy any Foretravel. It is why you are here, right?
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: stevec22 on September 18, 2015, 11:20:33 pm
I am new here and just bought a 1998 U320 for $55K yesterday, the seller's asking price. I shopped at both MOT and FOT looked at a dozen or so coaches. I luckily looked at RVtrader on Tuesday and found mine for sale, bought it on Thursday. The seller's Dad bought it new and sold it after a few years to the son. The coach was advertised as immaculate and looked like a 2-3 year old coach inside and out. All maintenance records dating to 1998 were provided as well as all records of repairs and updates. I believe that I paid $10k-20k below market value and look forward to many years of adventures in this coach.
I talked to Mel at MOT and believe he is a very reputable sales person. I did not get any of the typical salesman BS with him.
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: Caflashbob on September 18, 2015, 11:35:44 pm
My buddy is a current Rv sales manager and sells used coaches.
I have mentioned this before that you need to add for every single thing in the book.
Long list of adds.
That's the way the banks want it to justify the loan amounts is what I understand.
Essex in particular.
Just the way it's done.
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: car54 on September 18, 2015, 11:42:49 pm
The best answer is they are worth whatever someone will pay. The book value typically is BS, based solely on nothing because they almost always sell for a price pretty far away from book value in one direction or another.
Some would say I got a steal of a deal on my 1995 U300 for less than most spend on one visit to NAC for basic maintenance. I think I overpaid given the overall condition, but it was solid and well cared for as far as interior and exterior, but when it came to mechanical/electrical systems, it is clear from the stack of invoices and the items I encountered that the previous owners had absolutely no clue what they were doing (and no money left to fix anything, defaulting 14 years into a 20 year loan)
pay the inflated MOT prices if you aren't handy and unable to fix or diagnose anything. They are going to sell you a working RV and do it ethically, at a premium price.
Buy a repo'd clunker sight unseen at an auction for next to nothing and spend the next year slowly fixing all the systems, cheaply, yourself and end up with an RV that cost less than anything around. This worked for me. I'm young, just barely into my 3rd decade on this planet, and able to either fix everything myself or find a cheap, competent shop to help me.
If I was older and had more money to spend, I would have purchased from MOT or another reputable dealer, or even from a fellow forum member. Lots of really good deals out there if you can deal with unknowns.
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: bogeygolfer on September 19, 2015, 12:03:44 am
A "fair price" is what you're concerned about? Well, NADA is not the place to find it, at least for Foretravels. Lots of good advice has been offered above; I'll just share what I learned.
If you want a Foretravel, and you're stuck on NADA values, you'll never get to buy one. Just offer NADA for a good one, and see what happens.
Markets are made of willing buyers and sellers. My humble advice is: look at some coaches ( Foretravels, and others); drive them, touch and feel them. When you find one that you love, decide what it's worth to you, and make an offer. You'll quickly know if you're in the market, or not.
All the best, Chris
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: bigdog on September 19, 2015, 03:40:26 am
The best answer is they are worth whatever someone will pay. The book value typically is BS, based solely on nothing because they almost always sell for a price pretty far away from book value in one direction or another.
Some would say I got a steal of a deal on my 1995 U300 for less than most spend on one visit to NAC for basic maintenance. I think I overpaid given the overall condition, but it was solid and well cared for as far as interior and exterior, but when it came to mechanical/electrical systems, it is clear from the stack of invoices and the items I encountered that the previous owners had absolutely no clue what they were doing (and no money left to fix anything, defaulting 14 years into a 20 year loan)
pay the inflated MOT prices if you aren't handy and unable to fix or diagnose anything. They are going to sell you a working RV and do it ethically, at a premium price.
Buy a repo'd clunker sight unseen at an auction for next to nothing and spend the next year slowly fixing all the systems, cheaply, yourself and end up with an RV that cost less than anything around. This worked for me. I'm young, just barely into my 3rd decade on this planet, and able to either fix everything myself or find a cheap, competent shop to help me.
If I was older and had more money to spend, I would have purchased from MOT or another reputable dealer, or even from a fellow forum member. Lots of really good deals out there if you can deal with unknowns.
I'm not sure that $39K is an overly inflated price for the coaches I was looking at on MoT's web page.
I was an electronics tech & repaired nuclear missiles in the Air Force, Built a few fast cars, Owned a trucking company and worked (when I could) on my Kenworth W900. I'm now retired and want to enjoy life and want to at least limit my time on my back under a chassis. I can fix things. But prefer to not make a full time job of it.
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: GKCigar on September 19, 2015, 03:52:22 am
BigDog, Welcome to foreforum. My wife and I were up your way last July for a nephews wedding. We really love the Walla Walla area. The nephew works in the wine industry up there. Great wines! 8)
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: car54 on September 19, 2015, 05:28:11 am
I'm not sure that $39K is an overly inflated price for the coaches I was looking at on MoT's web page.
39K for a 1996 U295? I bought a 1998 U270 off Ebay for 29k and passed the deal on to a friend of mine. Won the bid, but didn't hit reserve here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/-/291526453693?vxp=mtr and contacted by the seller, we settled on 29k. so if my comparison point is a 270 that is two model years newer for 10k less, I do believe its a bit high.
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: Kemahjohn on September 19, 2015, 07:12:01 am
I bought my U320 from Mel at MOT about 2 years ago. He is honest, trustworthy and a pleasure to deal with. You can trust what he tells you, not the usual used car salesman and he knows the Foretravel coaches well. If I'm ever in the market again, MOT and Mel is where I will start.
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: John S on September 19, 2015, 07:59:42 am
A 295 is an upgrade really to a 320 but with the smaller engine. It cost more then a 270 did and has either walnut or cherry wood too.
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: Michael & Jackie on September 19, 2015, 11:42:21 am
Bigdog, I have responded to your private message, left you a phone number. We can talk at your convenience, think I can answer the ideas, questions you had and then you have all of the replies on the Forum. I think they got you about all you need except the two items in you message, and as Miz Dani apparently wrote you, I will try to help with those.
Hope your weather out there great, ours good but will be warm for football game even at 6 pm here in East Texas
mike
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: Don & Tys on September 19, 2015, 11:54:26 am
There will always be the deal that defines exception... $29K for a 98' in fair or better condition is an exceptional deal in my opinion. Lucky for your friend! If we were to sell ours, I wouldn't even talk to someone offering $29K for ours... Don
39K for a 1996 U295? I bought a 1998 U270 off Ebay for 29k and passed the deal on to a friend of mine. Won the bid, but didn't hit reserve here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/-/291526453693?vxp=mtr and contacted by the seller, we settled on 29k. so if my comparison point is a 270 that is two model years newer for 10k less, I do believe its a bit high.
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: TAS69 on September 19, 2015, 11:58:51 am
One issue my wife and I have discussed . Many times with private sales is people writing in artificial /favorable sales prices for sake of lessening tax bill. This may be where book values are skewed on comps. Another factor on the coaches listed at beginning of this thread , all but one of them were non slide coaches. Everyone and their brother is convinced that they need a slide or two. This kills the "book" value of my 18 year old 320. In truth non slide coaches are excellent vehicles and peopl like us have no qualms paying a fair price for Foretravel quality without added issues that accompany 20" or so more walkway.
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: TAS69 on September 19, 2015, 12:13:08 pm
We just paid $50,000.00 for a 98 320. Full body paint excellent maintenance pedigree delivered to us in Nashville from Tampa Bay Area. We think we gat an excellent deal. Almost bought same coach minus paint with twice th miles needing fridge battery's and tires at MOT for $65,000.00 Probably would have loved that coach and lived with ourselves had that deal Gone through. These are incredibly well built vehicles, you won't regret buying older quality verses newer glitzy glam.
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: car54 on September 19, 2015, 01:07:51 pm
There will always be the deal that defines exception... $29K for a 98' in fair or better condition is an exceptional deal in my opinion. Lucky for your friend! If we were to sell ours, I wouldn't even talk to someone offering $29K for ours... Don
Id say more than one deal. I got my 95 for a lot less than 29k. And thats after passing on a 97 u320 for $35k because the seller didnt have a lien free title or any firm info on payoff amounts from his bank that would satisfy my banks requirements.
The MOT prices that are generally accepted as good on here are high, as are the prices being asked by those selling privately on here, in my opinion. Nothing wrong with that, you often do get what you pay for. I'd argue your 270 is worth quite a bit more based on the upgrades ive seen you post about. The u270 for 29k was basically stock, although it was extremely well kept and in very good shape.
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: Paul Smith on September 19, 2015, 01:52:48 pm
I'd say our 1999 40ft U320 advertised in Classifieds is not one of those that's priced too high.
As attested to by others here with no urging to do so by me.
See for yourself here:
1999 40ft U320 - $60K ($30K down, $1000/month plus interest)
best, paul
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: Kemahjohn on September 19, 2015, 06:25:48 pm
Excellent deals usually mean you are going to spend some money to "tweak" it and make it right and your own. Higher prices usually mean get in it and drive away as is---- just depends on what you like to do and how much you want to spend. Just remember, NO motorhome is an appreciating asset. You will never get out of it what you put into it, but who cares, you buy it because you love it and you want to make it your own and to enjoy it! We went the excellent deal route and then spent some money on repairs and "making it ours". I never could pass up a good deal. We have been very happy with the results.
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: Don Rickey on September 19, 2015, 06:47:34 pm
I may have to enlist the help of Miz Dani to poke around those coaches.
Bigdog,
Not sure if it will help, but I will be down at MOT for a routine service appointment on October 12th. Should be there most of the week. If you need grunt work (photos, etc.) or just basic info on a coach, just let me know.
I can also second what you are hearing about Mel. Got mine from him in May of 2014 and it was one of the best transactions I have ever done. Very knowledgeable with no pressure. Will be dealing with him on any future business.
Hope this helps, and welcome to the forum!
Don
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: Caflashbob on September 20, 2015, 12:00:59 am
After a long time in the Rv biz management I have had the price/value question discussed endlessly.
The value of any used vehicle is:
Condition
Condition
Condition
Model year.
Miles.
In that order.
I am close to $20k and not done on our 97. And I knew that before I bought it.
How bad do you want it?
Does not necessarily pencil. You have to want it.
Still cheaper than new...
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: bigdog on September 20, 2015, 02:40:01 am
After a long time in the Rv biz management I have had the price/value question discussed endlessly.
The value of any used vehicle is:
Condition
Condition
Condition
Model year.
Miles.
In that order.
I am close to $20k and not done on our 97. And I knew that before I bought it.
How bad do you want it?
Does not necessarily pencil. You have to want it.
Still cheaper than new...
well. Cheaper than new is certainly true & that's fine provided that you didn't pay top dollar for it because it had upgrades around a suspect foundation. :D Now I hope the forum doesn't get to upset with me. But the prominent thing I have been hearing is upgrade, upgrade, upgrade. That's one of the things that worries me based on automotive experiences. I.E. To many folks that are selling a car spend most of their advert expounding on big stereos, loud exhaust, cool 20" spinner wheels. Stuff that gives no clue as to how the underlaying vehicle has been maintained.
Unfortunately, I have also seen this in various MH adverts around the net as well. I have seen very few classified MH adds with the following "i have full service history records on this coach" So in the end, Upgrades are cool and maybe even needed in some cases. But if those upgrades were paid for with systems maintenance money and the outside has also suffered. Well I'll take a documented well maintained plain Jane coach.
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: John S on September 20, 2015, 06:39:52 am
Well, I think you will find that many FT owners either use the factory or MOT or do it themselves. I have seen many more sold with full service records then you would think. The reason for upgrades is simple. The chassis is no where near worn out but the insides are older and can use a modern touch. It is the same in Prevost too. Many of the coaches are upgraded with entirely new interiors as they are two million mile coaches and have lots of life left in them. FOretravels work the same way too, we have lots of life after the fridge or heater or water heater or sofa or carpeting needs to be replaced. TVs and upgrades to sound systems and adding them outside are also in the mix too.
I think the fact is that the original coach with no headlight or any other upgrades is not worth as much as one that has been taken care of and upgraded. No owner will spend the money upgrading if they already skimped on maintenance.
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: Emoria on September 20, 2015, 12:06:38 pm
Hi Everyone
I've just signed up as a new member here in the UK. :))
I'm looking at purchasing a Foretravel Grand Villa Unihomme 1989 for £11,000 with MOT and 100,000 on the clock.
Intrigued to see what you think of this deal?
Emma
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: Rusty Socket on September 20, 2015, 02:53:28 pm
This is a great thread.
As another newbie looking at Foretravels, I just can not get enough information on them.
I have been reading everything that I can, all of Barry's info on his site (great stuff, thank you Barry) But I am still a little confused on the basic differences between the models. The higher the number, the more bells and whistles ? U270 versus U320?
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: Bob & Sue on September 20, 2015, 04:10:19 pm
Hi Rusty..
Also a newbie. As I understand it, u270 would be GVRW of 27,000 lbs and U320 would be GVRW of 32,000 lbs. along with other options.
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: Don & Tys on September 20, 2015, 04:17:19 pm
That is it in a nutshell... also, the later the year in any given model, the more bells and whistles. For instance, a 99' U270 has an 8KW generator, and a 2001 has a 10KW generator. The big divide is between the U295 and U320 which has the bigger engine and trans combo. Trade off's exist as always... the smaller electronic 8.3 ISC (starting in 99') or C8.3 (98' and previous) will have less hill climbing grunt but get better fuel milage. They all share the same chassis with air disc brakes and transmission retarder (starting in 96' I believe as standard equipment), 8 outboard air springs, same gauge of steel in the suspension and engine carriage framing etc. Pre-Unicoach, the numbers also corresponded to the GVWR i.e; U300 had GVWR of 30,000lbs. But the U270 has a GVWR of 31,000lbs. When the U320 first appeared in 95', it had a GVWR of 32,000lbs. but that idea went out the window shortly after. Also, the tow rating changes with the year models. The 99 U270 has a 10,000lb tow rating, same as the same year U320. Prior years were 5000lbs. If I remember corectly. The U295 had Walnut cabinetry like the 320, and the U270 had oak. Later years varied and any given year could have been custom built per customer request. Don
As another newbie looking at Foretravels, I just can not get enough information on them.
I have been reading everything that I can, all of Barry's info on his site (great stuff, thank you Barry) But I am still a little confused on the basic differences between the models. The higher the number, the more bells and whistles ? U270 versus U320?
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: Michelle on September 20, 2015, 05:32:15 pm
Also a newbie. As I understand it, u270 would be GVRW of 27,000 lbs and U320 would be GVRW of 32,000 lbs. along with other options.
The GVWR correlation was pre-bus style - the U225, U240, etc.
Starting with the bus style, U270/U295/U320 are primarily "trim level" differences with some variation in powertrain.
There's an old thread around here somewhere. I'll try to find it. ETA - try this as a starting point New purchase ? (Really used) (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=18657.0)
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: Don & Tys on September 20, 2015, 06:53:12 pm
Amplifying my earlier post, here is a breakdown of the differences between the U270, the U295, and the U320 with some mention of where the U320 differs. The 99' U320 was the only model to have the Cummins 450hp ISM and Allison 4060R trans combo. This is from something I did while researching after buying our coach, just to try and induce buyer's remorse (didn't happen!). The information came from the brochures on Barry B's marvelous website. This was a post in response to a similar question on the forum from about 4 years ago. I have edited here for clarity and fixed some typos.
Quote
Funny you should ask that... Just last night I was going through some hardcopys of the 1999 U270, U295, and U320 spec sheets with a highliter. Having just bought a U270 (3602 WTFE), but now in the stage of impatiently waiting to take possesion, I was curious to see what I would be missing out on. Sounds morbid I know... but since I know the chassis and construction essential bits are the same, and we definitely bought the best we could afford just to get into a Foretravel at all, I am quite happy with the feature set of our Foretravel. Many of the differences we be negated by the time we finish tinkering... but not all.
Features not found standard on the U270 (most could have been optioned on the U270, but not all), but all are standard on the U320, and most on the U295; In the order they are listed...
Under standard chassis features; U295 & U320 has 6 Alcoa aluminium wheels instead of 4. The inners of the rear axle are steel on the U270. U295 & U320 has a 160 amp vs. 130 amp alternator on the U270 U295 & U320 has chrome mirrors standard, option on the U270
Under Exterior features; Air hose for tire service Door bell Keyless remote entry on door and storage bay Parallel Storage bay doors (bus style). Not needing any clearance to open the cargo doors is a nice plus, not to mention giving more wide open access, and less head bashing as a result. Shelf in fresh water bay and LP compartment Slide out cargo tray standard
Under cockpit features; Audit 8t8 system monitor with Electronic outdoor thermometer and compass, vs. Audit 9T6 system monitor on the U270 (no therm. or compass) Cell Phone antenna & connection Illumination on the dash panel and shifter panel (instead of just the dash as on the U270)
Under Livability Features; Bedroom alarm clock Bose Companion Surround Sound System (U295), Bose Lifestyle 25 Home Theater System with CD changer (U320) Built in Safe Chandelier at dining table Concealed Cabinet Door Hinges Dometic 12 cu.ft. Side-by-side refer with built-in in ice maker, or 10 cu.ft. model with separate ice maker depending on floor plans Extra wide co-pilot seat, with electric foot rest on U320 Floor level accent lights Generator Switch in bedroom Gourmet kitchen faucet w/spray Leather seats and sofa in U320 Recessed Gaggenau 2-burner cooktop (U320) Slide out Shelf under kitchen sink Solid Surface 2 compartment sink Solid Surface Lavatory sink Tip-out storage below sink VCR eye Window accent lighting
Under Heating/Cooling/Electrical Features; Aqua-Hot Hydronic heating, standard on U320, optional on U295, not available on U270 Freedom 25 heart interface on U295 vs. Freedom 20 Heart Interface on U270, Freedom 25 Heart Interface on U320 Link 2000 battery monitor 10kw Powertech Diesel generator, vs 8kw in U270 22,000 BTU Automotive A/C vs 17,500 BTU in U270 42,000 BTU Automotive Heater/Defroster vs. 35,000 BTU in U270
Under Standard Weight Ratings; GVRW U320 34,880lb., U295 33,000lb., U270 31,000lb. GCWR is 10,000lbs higher than GVRW in each case. Same capacities except that units with Hydronic heating have 194 gal. diesel instead of 148 gal., and they have a smaller 17 gal. Propane vs, the 42 gal standard in units with propane furnace.
The popular options look to be the same for all units, except hose and shoreline reels are not available for the U270. I have only listed the differences from the 1999 brochures off of Barry's marvelous site. These are the 1999 brochures and the other years may differ somewhat... Don
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: propman on September 20, 2015, 07:07:08 pm
bigdog as you'd feel & hear from everyone here by buying a FT you will not be unhappy ... don't waste your time with a NADA.
Just because my FT is a U225 "entry level FT" I say baby FT :-) I always look and shop for bigger and/or newer FT .... mind you mine is in top shape and has done a 4500 mil round trip to Oregon and back ... probably it is the most updated U225 out there .. I don't know that for sure ... anyway .... here is what i can say .... because I am considering myself .... The FT's for sale at MHT: 2000 Foretravel U270 36 (#P1178A) $53.5: If this one has less than 110K mil on the engine and has less than 1500 hr's on the gen I would pay the $53K for it. 2001 Foretravel U320 40' (#P1160): this one still over priced (for me) maybe $65-70K 1999 Foretravel U270 40 (#C1830) :This one could fetch $65-68K 2 U270 & 1 U295 they have for $39.5 I am sure will sell for $39.5K I would go for the U295. I think 2007 Foretravel Nimbus 42 (#P1217) for $219.5K is the best thing they have over there Anyway what do i know ... just what i would do / pay if I could let my Matilda go for what they have at MHT.
Most folks here will tell you this, or you can read it from previous posts. What ever model / year you pick, budget $8-10K for after purchase expenses & if you don't have to spend that money you may just have more what ever you do money extra. I've spend $20K after i purchased mine, some for needs & some for wants but thank good none was a surprise ... because of the FT build quality and some luck that PO took care of it.
Welcome to our forum & good luck.
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: bigdog on September 20, 2015, 10:30:45 pm
I'm absorbing all the info. So keep it coming & I'll ask questions as they come to me. I especially appreciate your post propman. That's what I need. A bit of a guide-mentor. And general info about any areas to be concerned with when looking at an older FT.
My neighbor here in Walla Walla is an RVer that flies south for the winter. When I told him that we have decided to concentrate our coach shopping to FT. He said good choice, Probably the best made coach and that I won't go wrong by buying one.
I apologize if any of my views come across as a bit pointed or terse. I limit my diplomatic tone to when I'm dealing with people, all other subjects I will give my full view of how I see something. So as they say "nothing personal just business"
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on September 20, 2015, 10:48:29 pm
There are many FTs out in Oregon and Washington and many FT owners traveling through. Seek them out and go see their coaches. The more you see the more you can understand what each has to offer. This will help you decide what features are important to you, what floor plans work for you and how that relates to your perception of value and price.
Keep looking, keep asking questions, keep learning. Enjoy the search.
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: bigdog on September 21, 2015, 01:43:29 am
There are many FTs out in Oregon and Washington and many FT owners traveling through. Seek them out and go see their coaches. The more you see the more you can understand what each has to offer. This will help you decide what features are important to you, what floor plans work for you and how that relates to your perception of value and price.
Keep looking, keep asking questions, keep learning. Enjoy the search.
Thanks for the suggestion Roger I did a members map search and found an owner 60 minutes from my location with a similar coach we are shopping for and another owner with the exact coach on the wet side in Chahalis, Wa. I sure hope they are up to helping a guy out.
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: kenhat on September 21, 2015, 02:35:42 am
@bigdog I'm in Puyallup till the end of the month then heading up to Birch Bay, Blaine & then La Conner. Let me know if you would like a tour of our coach.
see ya ken
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: bigdog on September 21, 2015, 02:54:58 am
@bigdog I'm in Puyallup till the end of the month then heading up to Birch Bay, Blaine & then La Conner. Let me know if you would like a tour of our coach.
see ya ken
A real oldie and a two stroke engine as well. Cool!
We were close to La Conner not but a month ago on our way to Nanaimo Vancouver Island to pick up a car trailer I had made for my Caterham 7. The Puget Sound area is a great place to be.
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: kenhat on September 21, 2015, 12:14:14 pm
@bigdog I just saw a show on the Caterham the other day. What a cool car!
If it helps we will be in La Conner from 10/15 thru 11/4. Just PM me if you're interested in a tour.
see ya ken
Title: Re: New member with a question on values of Foretravels
Post by: bigdog on September 21, 2015, 01:05:55 pm