Thanks Pam & Mike,
I just called them and they know nothing about the Stewart Warner 464A oil pressure gauge, but were willing to take a look at the stuck RPM gauge needle.
I am waiting for a call back from Silverleaf in Oregon to see what the cost is of doing a complete panel change, and get rid of the SW system for a glass screen??
Thanks.
Brian.
At the Tenn GrandVention, was quoted $10,000 plus about $3,000 for air travel, motel and car rental for the Glass Dash in my 2001. Has that price been reduced Tim?
Hi Dave,
I just spoke with Dale at Silverleaf, in Albany, Oregon, and he quoted $4995 with me taking the coach down there which is not too far. If there are any add on's I am not aware of them at present. He said the price had been halved since the begining of the year.
I have spent the day looking for an oil pressure gauge, SW464A, and don't waste your time, there are none around.
Looks like a trip to Oregon is in the works?????????????
Brian.
I might have misunderstood, but when I spoke with them I got the idea it was $5k +2 to 3 days labor to install and I think he said custom dash parts were on top of that. Results, however would be awesome.
A really nice solid state pc built into coach running VMSpc and a new 12.9" iPad built into your dash would cost a fraction of the cost of a SilverLeaf built in glass dash.
Thank you,
That is what I am fearing, but I await their call back.
Brian.
Mike & Molly
I am running the VMSPC on an old ACER netbook I had with Windows 7- seems to run great.
Brian- I had my oil pressure gauge peg at high last year- same on VMSPC. Bernd found that the oil pressure sender Cummins was recommending to replace was an on/off sender- no good in our estimation. He made more calls and found the sender I needed for my 2001 ISC 350 was the same as the 5.9L Cummins in the pick ups- installed it and worked great. Don't know if that will help you but sometimes another idea leads us in another direction.
Best of luck.
Silverleaf Speedometer and Glass Dash (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=13441.msg74224#msg74224)
I cant find the original posts, probably on the old Yahoo forum , but John C had a GLASS DASH by Silverleaf installed in his coach. Don't know where that coach ever went but it is one of a kind. As I recall it was 10K or so.
Gary B
Have they improved the resolution on the Silverleaf Glass Dash? The ones we've seen look like old CGA graphics.
Maybe 13 back then, way less now.
When I was at the Pomona FMCA Rally earlier this year, they said that they bought a surplus of the glass dashes and are now able to cut the price of the unit by 50%. So while before it was $10,000 plus installation/potential travel costs, now it's $5000 plus installation, which is much less if you can bring the coach to Oregon for the install.
Now I'm second guessing my thoughts about having one installed. While it is now substantially cheaper, I can see what Michelle is saying, with the old style graphics look. I don't think he said anything about the new units being any different from the originally priced ones. So I'm not aware of any graphics update. But it did look really good in bright sunlight as well as a dark environment, so that is a plus.
I am still waiting for a message back from Dale at Silverleaf after I sent him pictures of my 2001, U320, panel, but I will also ask about the graphics once he gets back to me and let you all know.
Brian.
$5K+ install for a dash? Is this a need or want?
Is there a known issue with 2001 U320 and like models that forces whole "dash" gauge cluster replacement?
Hey guys I had the glass dash put on my Phenix because at that time they did not have it as standard equipment. What I did though was have them use the Newell colors and graphics with the Foretravel black box that is needed. Also Foretravel sent me the new bezel for my coach that had the rectangular cut out for the dash.
As I understand it, it is all of the 2001 models with the gray box and later models with the blue box. i don't know how much earlier. All of the transducers for air pressure, oil pressure, volts, transmission temp, coolant temp and maybe speedo and tach feed into the box which does something to the signals and feeds a (likely) variable voltage to the gauge which casues it to show something. When the gray or blue box starts to fail signals never make it to the gauge.
When my air pressure gauges failed (it seems like these go first) the transducers still worked and applying a small voltage (<5 volts) made that gauge move. It was something in the gray box. Unrepairable, unreplaceable.
Much more is available on a VMSpc display and it is customizable for your needs.
When I said Silverleaf black box I actually meant their box that controls the silverleaf total coach, The settings for the water pump fill, the tank gauges, the heated floor as well as the parameters for fuel tank measurement etc. The glass dash is also connected to the engine computer and the program that lets you set various trips, see faults, and set up the whole thing. It also becomes a backup screen when the coach is put into reverse. I am not sure your earlier coaches have this box.
Thank you.
Want of course!!!!
Tim,
Your 2000 U320 has a dash like this one correct?
I will have to look at this for 5K. It is not a bad price.
That's my dash as well
Tim, John, others the glass dash has four settings to display the data as well as having the ability to scan or add various gauges. You can change color and parameters. My dash was set so that at 75 mph the warning comes on saying "you are exceeding the tire manufacturer speed recommendations. Also there is a view that I call the airplane mode see photo.
My coach #6527 , has the glass dash , total coach thing . I can change colors , type of gauges and a bunch of other things that I am still learning about . Do , I like it , yes . My next coach will have it . If my present coach didn't have it , I would not spend that amount to get it . Just a very personal point of view . Brad Metzger
IF the price was reduced from $10,000 installed down to $5,000 plus 3 days to install, would guess the savings are in the $2,000 area. Me living n Va. The $3,000 for air travel, motel & car rental get a little reasonable since I have no plans for Or.
Looking at the above, my VMSpc looks better every day.
As per Roger and Susans post those of us with the 2001, and onwards, Steward Warner gauge and 'Grey" box system, are slowly getting gauge failures and bad readings. There are no parts or repairs available for them so you have to go somewhere, and these guys at Silverleaf seem to have a few options.
Others of you will have different systems and hopefully will stay good and serviceable. Our old Grand Villa was all steam gauges and worked fine.
Failed gauges will also affect the resale value should you choose to sell at some point.
Brian.
Ours is a 1995 and so I don't fully understand your gauge situation. Wouldn't it be possible for you to replace your bad gauge with one directly wired to the appropriate sender on the engine?
Unlike Brad, I don't think there will be a "next coach"
I do like his brother Dave. I keep tweaking this one.
I have to look at that Dashboard for hours at a time. Seems like five grand to make me feel good isn't too bad a deal. Especially if it keeps me from dropping an extra 150 thousand to upgrade to a newer coach!
your mileage may vary.
I am with you on this Tim.
After I got our VMS 240 CL on the dash right in front of me I never paid much attention to the gauges.
See the last photo on this page:
http://lazydazers.com/index.cfm?fa=ShowItem&ID=3539
best, paul
My coach has a built in dedicated PC and a secure internal network connecting the hardware half of the VMSpc wirelessly to a tablet as a monitor (as well as a printer, a fax machine and copier and 1Tb attached storage.) I too expect this to be my last coach but the next owner will get way more capability than when I bought it. I expect that even with any failed gauges this will only enhance value to the next owner as will most of the upgrades we have done. In the mean time they are all ours to enjoy and derive benefit.
DJ,
Yes I could do that and there were extra wires installed at build, but that is not the only gauge failure that I have so before I lose any more I am looking at getting away from the SW system completely.
Brian.
My next gauge that goes out means a glass dash goes in.
I realize that I am somewhat old fashioned, but I tend to look at things from a different perspective. If I had a proprietary system that had failed and was no longer supported I would be somewhat reluctant to replace it with yet another proprietary system that may or may not be supported in the years ahead. Besides, I really appreciate the value of individual gauges that can be individually replaced if needed, and (being somewhat old fashioned) I tend to prefer the look of a traditional panel with individual gauges.
David, I have wonderd about what the gray/blue boxes actually do. Since both of my air pressure gauges failed at the same time there was little chance that both of the transducers or both sets of wires or both gauges or any combination failed at the same time. So it has to be the box. Transducers usually are variable resistance devices. You put a constant voltage (that may be what the colored boxes do) to the transducer and it returns something between zero and the max voltage. That voltage or something proportional causes the gauge to move.
The boxes probably supply a regulated voltage, maybe adjust the return signal to sent to the physical gauge and monitor for low signals to turn on the annunciator. With the air pressure gauges disconnected it caused the annunciator to ding for two days before I found the noise maker and disconnected to.
It would be nice to make the keep the gauges functioning. FT couldn't tell me what the box did in any detail and said replacements were unavailable. Search on the internet turned up nothing. Finding a replacement box would likely just delay another failure.
My tablet display is centered on the top edge of the dash and the radio. It is quite a bit higher than the actual dash. It is very much more readable. I have all of the critical stuff clustered together with idiot lights. A quick glance and I can see that I am good to go.
While it might look pretty neat, having something where the dash gauges are now for me would be harder to keep an eye on than my tablet is now. But it would be interesting to try.
Yes, the engine hours are correct and the total fuel is not. The is particular version of VMSpc and the ISM11 are a bit goofy for that reading. Art from Silverleaf has suggested a fix that I am implementing. 70,000 miles, a milestone.
To me the "best of both worlds" is to have individual gauges connected directly to their sending units and a separate VMSpc display providing additional information. If I had a model with the failing "box" that's the approach I would take.
I love my Silverleaf. It is easier to read then the dash gauges.
My poor mans version of the Silverleaf Glass Dash. Can't go without it.
Old Hippie,
That is a neat way of mounting the tablet and I may have to have a rethink of changing to the complete glass set-up??
What sort of tablet is that and how is it attached??
And of course what did the complete set up cost, and time taken to do it, if you don't mind sharing.
Brian.
Brian,
Here is my post from two years ago.
VMSpc (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=18242.msg125230#msg125230)
My ASUS PC has HDMI output USB2 and USB3 ports. That exact model is no longer available but newer ones are as well as other brands. I like Intel's NUC micro computers too. Not much more $ for a really high performer. Although the ASUS is plenty capable and works well for movies on the big screen.
ASUS was about $370 including more RAM. Samsung tablet was $115. VMSpc hardware was about $275 as I recall. Tablet mount was about $35. All in for about $800. My 7" tablet is working well. It seems like a good size for me, easy to see without being in the way. I like not having to look off the road very much to check it.
Roger,
Was just curious, according to your screen shot, you have been doing 1034.7 mph. What tires are you using when the coach actually touches the ground??????? ^.^d ^.^d
Like the setup, will be looking at it for our rig this winter probably.
Larry
This baby really files. Talk about blowing by other drivers.
Two things are going on here. When my engine was rebuilt Cummins put in a new ECM. That set everything back to zero.
In VMSpc I had to put in offsets for the total total fuel used and the total miles to keep things consistant. Nothing changed in the ECM. I left the total hours alone. So (miles since the rebuild + the offset ) / actual hours gives me thousands of miles per hour.
I use one trip for since day one, the othe one for trip segments, That one shows a reasonable avg MPH.
The other thing is that last winter (before engine rebuild) my total fuel started jumping all over. When I start VMPpc up it reads correctly. Then it gets erratic. That goofs up everything that depends on fuel use. Worst for me was fuel remaining and miles till empty.
I have been working with Art Renda at Silverleaf on this. He said that the version 3.1 build 3 had some fixes in it to adjust for ISL engines fuel use reading thepat were very slow and this fix caused other engins like mine to become erratic or hyperactive readinf ful use. The ECM reads it fine and keeps track of it correctly.
So ths fix is to go back to version 2.5 build 10c. I have both installed now and am testing the prior one.
The latest version is 4 something. If you switch you have to rebuild your displays.
v2.5b10c available here:
http://silverleafelectronics.com/sites/silverleafelectronics.com/files/Distribution_Disk_VMSpc_v2.5b10c.zip
NOTE: During the instqll process, when it prompts you its about to install into c:\VMSPC --append that to c:\VMSpc_2.5
We just returned from our trip to Silverleaf in Albany, OR, where were were fitted with a complete new glass panel in place of the failing Stewart Warner system. It took Dale Kempner 6hrs to do the complete job including tire pressure monitors.
I took a shot of the panel on the way home today, attached.
The guys at Silverleaf are extemly knowledgable regarding the various coach diesel engines and the computer programs that they operate with. Far beyond my pay grade!!
Should you ever go and visit them your "Bitching Betty" GPS will tell you to turn one building too soon. Go as far as 25th Street, Silverleaf is on the corner hidden in the bushes, turn Right and go behind the buliding which is not too impressive, but the service we got was excellent.
Brian.
See the need to rethink the glass dash thing.
That is a great setup.
John,
Not to stir the pot any, but that is the same dash as yours!
(and Dave's)
Trent
Respecting your privacy, when you get a moment, hopefully you'd feel OK with sharing the approx. cost of this conversion to the forum?
OH NO.. That is one great setup. And we are going right past Silverleaf this summer.. Toys are important.. We have a silverleaf on a computer, but going too have to talk Carol into a new set up..
Thanks..
john, maybe we can get a better price if we both go at the same time for our "glass dash" upgrade. :-)
Hmmm Wonder about a windows tablet (big) using silver leaf and covering up the analog gauges, keeping idiot lights and such in view below? Would be REAL cheap. My video upgrade covers the whole from the Javelina green screen just right, looks good, and didn't mess with or lose the luminescent panel. Maybe similar with windows tablet at around $900?
I need the glass dash...... OK, want....strongly
Looks great and congratulations! My understanding is they will come to you and install as well, not sure re any price delta for valet service
Great upgrade!
I wonder how they are reading Air Pressure on this one?
Tim,
The glass dash may not be as simple for our 2000 model Foretravels. I talked to someone at Foretravel earlier this year to inquire about adding the glass dash to mine. (I called them because they are listed as an authorized Silverleaf dealer, IIRC.)
Again, IIRC, FT had only added glass dash to one FT at the time, and it was a much newer model. Their estimate was about $6000, IF IT COULD BE DONE.
Part of the problem stems from our luminescent panels. On the 2001 model pictured, they have a single arch over the center section. On ours, we have a much longer arch, over three luminescent panels. It is cutting into the luminescent panels that causes the problem. Not knowing much about them, it seems like it *should* be possible to cut out the center section -- they already have several cutouts for the gauges -- but I do not know. It is also *possible* that some of the later models have more data available than the 2000's but I am not sure.
The price tag plus inability to determine if it was even feasible, led me to drop the subject.
Now that I have seen how great the completed product looks on Brian's Foretravel, I will revisit the possibility. It would look cool if we could keep the blue (lit) lines around all three panels with the glass dash in the center. Might even keep the idiot lights, as someone suggested. (Something has to be done about that annunciator as part of the project; just too much noise for a turn signal!)
But first, I will look harder into VMSpc on a tablet/notebook, similar to Roger's. That would leave me at least five coach bucks to spend on other fun (or needed) things.
Hope I have given you (and others) more to consider for this project.
Trent
Agree, that is what I mentioned in my post- maybe a tablet covering the analog gauges in the current panel rather than cutting that current panel. that solution would get rid of a tablet/pc on the dash (which I don't care for - personal preference - so I currently don't use my VMsPC when driving even though I own it.... surface mounted to current panel would be cheap ant maybe not too "cheesy" depending on how it is attached and the size of the tablet.
That being said, it looks like he just made a new panel to hold the Glass Dash - that could easily be done if willing to give up the center luminescent panel- not sure what would be so hard about that...but I might want to keep the idiot lights.
My setup is pretty flexible. I use my 7" display most of the time but I can use my iPad or laptop. All wireless. Actually I can use the iPad as a remote display with the laptop or any other computer in my house or coach. One of the new 12+" iPads would be pretty nice for a dash display. The display is just an app so it is easy.
I Played around with my iPad where the dash gauges are. I prefer my more heads-up position of the 7" tablet. Everything I need at a glance. It is just my preference but there are lots of ways to do this.
Tim, the new dash surround is just the same as the old one, and the old one is removed not cut. He has a template to make the insert exactly the same and it was ready as soon as I got there.
My pictiure did not show "idiot" lights as when I am going I prefer not to have any, but when you first start there is a whole block at the top that until they are fulfilled they will stay. Many more than before so you are not missing anything.
There is also a "before moving" check list to save you embarrasment down the road.
Briian.
I for one would hate to give up my currently operating electro luminescent dash panels. Kinda cool looking at night.
I bought an hp laptop inexpensively and run the program next to me on the dash. The comparison of the two systems has helped me to better understand how Foretravel setup my coach and may show partially defective sensors.
Noticed the dash temp gauge does not match the silverleaf. I think different pickup points. Or the non cummins ECM sender is off?
The RMPG seems to show my cooling fan is on too much either intentional of from a bad sundstrand hydraulic fan controller.
No dash gauge for that on mine.
The dash temp gauge comparison and the mpg info are to me the two important parts of the silverleaf.
While the gee whiz is great it's not enough for me so far to mod the dash.
Others with failed SW gauges and non luminescent panels would have a different set of choices.
Was intending to send the PC signal to my iPad which had a fancy mount but I have only tested it.
.
Has anyone made a Glass Dash conversion on a 1997 Foretravel?
You will have to take a look at my 2001 with the glass cockpit when you pass down this way on your way home.
Speedbird 1.
Hi Brian
Your installation looks very clean. I'm not sure how they would do the same on ours. There is quite a bit going on, on the panel that would have to be replaced. I was hoping someone had already crossed that bridge and have some pictures.
See yah in September,
Bob
Ok anyone else with a 2000 that is thinking of a glass dash other than Trent and myself? Maybe we get a bulk deal?
JohnH
I have an expert fabricator who custom builds dashboards for Rv's and busses.
I am almost afraid to build something like a glass dash into our coach. The reason might surprise you. Maybe not.
I am a extremely aware driver and my attention can be distracted while driving.
Almost crashed a new 1989 pt 40 bluebird in traffic one day. Those had a upper and lower dashboard like an airplane. Really high quality. Zillion buttons and gauges.
Loved to monitor them a lot.
Looked up and I was coming up to stopped truck in front of me. Panic stop.
So I leave my 11" notebook off to the drivers side in the middle of the dash. Less distracting.
And a small garmin in front of it.
I remember looking at a military jets dash. Every gauge was set so that the red needles straight up position indicated that function was correct.
Quick glance showed everything ok.
Thought about rotating the dash gauges to do the same thing,
Not do. Just thought
Probably possible in a glass dash.
The critical gauges on a Foretravel dash are at the top edge already
yes, I am looking at it as well. Losing the center luminescent panel is holding me back a bit as I drive often at night
John,
It looks like you and Trent have the same style dash as Tim and I. I intend to make the change in October. Art, at SilverLeaf Electronics told me that they have converted our style dash in the past. Apparently their installer Dale has pictures of the completed project.
Tim,
I unplugged the luminescent power supply to the center panel and it still looks pretty good.
New led gauges available are even easier to monitor. You can see them in the nascar races, seven colours to choose you program a low range colour then a normal range colour and an upper limit colour at whatever values you would like. They also have data logger capabilities built in. No need to watch the numbers or the needles.
Spoke to Dale at SilverLeaf. He has not installed a Glass Dash in coach's with our style dash. The biggest obstacle is locating the same material so the final look is like a factory original. If anyone has a source for match or something close let me know.
I called Foretravel about a month ago and was told that the original vinyl color was called "sandstone" but they didn't have any of that material anymore and didn't know the name of the manufacturer. I had a couple of samples shipped to me off of eBay but nothing matched.
I've found this Great Lakes Skipper site which seems like they stock a lot of marine grade vinyl but I haven't had time to request samples from them yet.
Marine Vinyl (Foam Backing) , Upholstery, Tops, Covers and Flooring | Great... (http://greatlakesskipper.com/upholstery-tops-flooring/waterproof-marine-vinyl-fabric-foam?limit=96)
The oyster color looks very close to the original to me.
Thanks Robert,
I am looking for the material that is visible where the gauges are mounted.
You could contact javelina to ask what the surface material is on the electro-luminescent panels? They had a falling out with Foretravel I think so expect zero info.
I feel like I am a steward of a fine quality yacht.
No way I will drill holes or mod working systems.
Worth more money working original than modded in my long experience
Bob & Susan,
I had contacted Javelina previously and again yesterday with the same results. :headwall:
Yes they have had issues with Foretravel.l
I considered mounting an iPad on a ram mount clamped to the wooden shade cover on the forward side of the drivers side window.
Silverleaf has no Apple program for the older data plug only Windows.
So my hp stream 11 running Windows 10 and the program can send the screen shot to the iPad.
Would put the info offset in my vision somewhat but elevated.
Have the various pieces but have not bought the clamp mount for the iPad yet.
Right now the hp is open and running on the dash and a small garmin is next to it on a bean bag type mount for legal road speed updates and total trip mileage.
DW is using the iPad a lot more on cellular data for upcoming road things
As I mentioned I do have a guru buddy that can and has built dashboards. Sourcing the exact material would be a luck thing.
He has a source to precision cut his dashes. The ones I have seen are a smoother flat black plastic material