Well now, Where to begin.
The problems first started as we were leaving the PO's drive way when the coach was being a bit hesitant to go into gear. Every time we had to stop it became more & more recalcitrant about going into gear. I was rather worried while we were sailing from Duke Point to Tsawassen, I certainly didn't want to break down on the ferry. All went well with our importation process. (which was my biggest concern) It barely took 15-20 minutes. But again the coach didn't want to go into gear. The coach finally went t*ts up at MP 237 on I-5. Then it got dark and was starting to rain & get cold.
This is something that I didn't include in my call to Wayne. And that was the fact that I started the AH to fend off the cold. It fired up just fine in the diesel setting, No smoke and lots of heat at the exhaust (for about 10 minutes) then it too stopped working and never fired up again. Yet the green diesel light stayed on and didn't flash to indicate a fault. So I guess that is broken now as well. So on went the genset and the heat strips. At least those two systems worked.
Sunday we just sat around Valley Freightliners lounge. They finally got the coach into a bay at 3PM Sunday (they closed at 5PM) Nothing was done on Sunday. Monday at 7:30 I got a call from the shop stating that the tow truck driver had damaged the U-joint yoke on the diff side of the driveline. He had hit it so hard with a sledge hammer that the bearing cup bolt hole was now un-round & therefore they couldn't diagnose the trans issue until the driveline was fixed and reattached.
This is where I got very mad at Valley Freightliner. After the 7:30 call to me. The wife & I went to the shop at 11AM and the shop foreman showed me the damage. He said they might be able to fix the problem by running a thread tap into the formerly round hole, but might have order a new yoke. 1PM I ask for a status update. They were waiting for the tow company to get back to them about paying for the damage their driver caused. (the tow company was called at 8AM) 2PM I'm now getting mad as nothing has been done on my coach and they have had it for 9 hours since they started the RO. I said that they need to get it in gear and that they should have tried to run the tap on those threads right after they got off the phone with (Dick's Towing of Everett) Because even if they (Dick's) balked at paying, Tapping out the threads would only take a few minutes & I had no issues with absorbing the labor on that. Dick's did admit fault and agreed to pay. The tapping of the damaged thread hole worked and took a few minutes. So in a nut shell, Valley Freightliner wasted 6 hours worrying about a $20-$30 labor charge. Valley Freightliner told me that they do not carry any Allison parts beyond seals & gaskets. And that if parts were needed they would have to be ordered, So it would most likely be Wednesday or Thursday as a get well date.
My wife and I secured transportation to Enterprise car rental and headed (coachless) back to Walla Walla, But I had left my GPS in the coach so we went by Valley to pick it up.
My coach was finally handed over to the Allison specialist at 3PM Monday. When I went to the coach for the GPS, He had the computer hooked up to the trans ECM. The only fault he saw was a retarder temp sensor failure but had a hunch that the selector pad was the issue. We then headed to Walla Walla. About 2 hrs later I got a call from the shop saying that the selector pad was kaput, unresponsive, DOA. The tech didn't find any loose wires. I asked about the retarder issue & the RO made no mention of the retarder temp sensor failure, but that he would double check on that.
Then during the lube, oil & filter service. They found a sheared off exhaust manifold bolt. So will cost another 3hrs to fix if it cooperates. And up to 6 or so if they need to drill it out.
In the end, it looks as if my 3 hours of Foretravel ownership is amounting to about $1,000 per hour running cost so far. I imagine that the AH will cost me another K or so.
So, the turd polishing starts.
Bigdog,
I've been following your story since you signed in. I know how it is to purchase something and then have it not perform up to par. Hopefully the price you got on the coach will balance off the problems you are encountering. Also I hope that your run of luck changes ASAP.
Keep your sense of humor and hang in there. Hopefully we will run across each other somewhere down the road and be able to have a great laugh about it while you're giving me a ride in your Caterham.
Len
Welcome to ownership, I had the AH spring a leak of engine coolant on my maiden voyage. Thankfully it was not my first coach. There are always teething pains to a coach that sits a long time.
bigdog
FYI you may want to tell the shop you want the dead keypad as it can be rebuilt and would give you a spare. This fellow in the Dallas,TX area can fix it if it is fixable, give him a call. Transmission Instruments (http://transmissioninstruments.com/)
Not to sound like a moocher but even if you don't want to have your old one rebuilt there may be another member that would be interested in having it repaired.
Pamela & Mike
X2 on Transmission Instruments. They repaired our balky shift pad, and it has just made a 4500 mile trip with perfect function. They have very quick turn-around, will not "fix" anything unless it actually needs fixing, and have (I think) fair pricing compared to anything you might purchase from Allison.
Sorry for all your first time out problems. When I picked up our coach in Omaha I started getting high temp and low oil pressure readings so stopped in Cedar Falls at a Freightliner shop to find out what was going on. They connected their computer and checked actual temp and oil pressure and it turned out that the temp gauge was reading 20 degrees high and oil pressure was 10 psi low. I continued on west and about an hour later both the temp and oil pressure gauges were reading correctly again. For the rest of the trip the gauges would sometimes read correctly and other times not. We left the coach @ RnR RV in Liberty Lake, WA. I had them do a pre-delivery inspection to ID as many potential problems as possible and ends up we are having around 10 CB of work done to get everything in A1 shape. I figure that is just part of the cost of purchasing the coach. Even with the 10 CB of repairs and upgrades I figure I still got a great coach for the price. We leave Thursday to drive over and pick up the coach and bring it on home, maybe we will pass each other on the way home. As John S. said there are always teething pains in buying a motorhome, new or used, don't get discouraged.
Hasn't it been said by several that 10 percent of purchase price afterwards for issues. I figure it's coming because the averages seldom lie. Might be brakes or whatever but stil love our Foretravel.
We live in Moses Lake and bought our FT from a guy who lived on Camano Island. Since there are two pretty major grades on I-90 between our home and theirs (Snoqualmie and Vantage) I was on *high alert* the entire trip. We had towed our dolly over with our sedan and were towing the sedan back on the dolly so at least we had a dinghy.
So far we have only been stranded one time, just north of Corvallis, OR on I-5 last winter on our way south the coach would not start. That cost us 5 days and half-a-coach-buck.
The two biggest stress factors I can think of are: "What was that noise?" and "Does the toad look okay to you?" :P
Hang in there. It's a process....
Craig
I hate sitting in waiting rooms, feels like jail without the three squares! Hope things work out, stay in touch. M
While I am most certainly disappointed in my "legendary Foretravel quality coach" throwing me under it's wheels.
I'm actually more pissed off at the shop than I am with the coach. In that they asked the tow company to pay for the drivers mistake, OK that's great. But as the first attempt at repairing the damaged bolt hole would be the same whether the tow company paid for it or not. Means that the shop wasted 5 hrs of diagnostic time waiting for an answer instead of just repairing it. Which ended up resulting in the shift pad being ordered today (Tuesday) instead of Monday morning. The shops OCD with the $20-$30 labor charge for tapping the bolt hole cost a full day.
Mike, The shop does have a nice waiting room with comfy chairs, sat TV, shower, WiFi (wasn't working though) Clothes washer & drier, Vending machines that take cards if your short of cash. and a shuttle service.
They are just lacking the "let's git er done" attitude that has always (until recent times) been the hall mark of American ingenuity & free market competition.
I feel your pain. Hope you get back on the road quickly and as painlessly as possible. :D
Early in our ownership I was inclined to listen and do what service techs. recommended, thinking that surely they must know what's best. Later through a couple of experiences I learned that some times I must assert myself into the process and Assist them in making decisions and action plans. Hang in there and work the problem. :D
Agree bigtime . Most of us know more about our coaches than most techs do, we're a rare breed, after all. That's why I do my best to stay with the coach (no matter what the b.s. about "insurance regulations" is). I want to be there, it's our home & I have a short fuse for wasting time, coach bucks and I want to spot ineptitude. 'nuff said. M
I think FORETRAVELS legendary quality is still just fine.
None of the parts in question were made by Foretravel 17 years ago.
I have spent 3 1/2 years and two or three times more coach bucks than you have so far rebuilding or upgrading every moving part in the machine.
You bought the "bones" not the sub assemblies.
The Foretravel difference is after 17 years that the "bones" are still good unlike a lot of SOB's where their bones are bad and not fixable.
Set the timer on your phone and count how many times the technician changes his bllue rubber gloves and checks his cell phone per hour!
Something my employees had to get used to: NO PRIVATE CALLS DURING BUSINESS HOURS! >:(
While that might be so Bob, It's rather hard to think that right now after being stranded for 3 days & departing with 2-3 coach bucks (est) a scant three hours after our purchase and having driven for 1 hour or so.
Bigger yet Is the rather very large doubt that has firmly entered into the mind of my wife. It will take a long time before she changes her outlook of this being anything but an untrustworthy way of seeing America. Right now she sees us hopping from repair shop to repair shop. If we would have been able to make it home and do some repairs at our own pace until she retires. She would be much more accepting of the repair scenario. But three hours of ownership and 1 hour of driving resulting in 3 days of being stranded, a car rental, Missed Dr. appointment and the prospect of already looking at spending 3 coach bucks and 3 more for taxes and 1 more for the windshield replacement and likely one more coach buck for AH issues that weren't there when I looked at the coach. I will be paying dearly for this for quite some time.
Roll the dice. Similar issues many times. Including our coach
Warned every customer to take a short trip the first time,
Most of the customers trading in coaches had no idea things were bad.
"Never gave me no trouble" means everything needs fixing in my experience
Long list of needed long term use replacement parts needed was posted.
That's why I took every traded in coach rving myself before reselling it and told the customers at my asking price that they could bring me a list and I would fix it all on Foretravel(me as sales manager.)
Simpler coaches then helped
Yup, I inspected a number of Airstreams (before I knew about coach bucks) and told them, "Get 10k together, 'cause I don't care what sort of coach it is: Foretravel, Beaver, Country Coach, Marathon, Alpenlite, AS., you WILL spend CBs! "
Again - Feel your pain.
The day after we bought our Ol' Girl the toilette started to leak. I tried to fix it and blew a fuse that I could not find. So now I had water leaking and a toilette that didn't work. Took it to Camping World - never again - they did find the fuse and replaced it but in the process they crossed the wires so the toilette still didn't work properly and still had the leak. Paid CW $500.00 for Diagnostics and Repair. House batteries, inverter/converter, slide bladder and a few other things made us feel like we got the short end of the stick on our deal. We felt for a while that we were going from one repair facility to another and they would never end, not to mention the $$$ Very discouraging. I kept trying to remember that the 10CB that folks talked about putting aside. Not only was my wallet hurting but also my pride/ego. I was the one that wanted a Foretravel and I thought - What did I get us into.
It is easy for us to say that we have gone through it too - as many us us have. It is difficult to get over that mental hump of uncertainty and lack of faith in our machine and more importantly ourselves. Try to keep this incident in perspective and stay positive. Your DW will probably be OK after a while. :D
Having been on the FoFum for a while I have read and commiserated with a few new FT owners and must admit that I do not recall any of them that were beaten. Beat up a little bit not beaten.
BTW - We had to have the Windshield replaced shortly after we bought our coach as a rock cracked it on day 2. It turned out we had windshield coverage for a small monthly amount. :D
I never expected the coach to be perfect. As a person that has built cars over the years and having owned a trucking company. I certainly didn't buy the coach wearing rose colored glasses. It was simply for me & the wife the hard impact of such a big hit in such a short time span. I'm not nearly as bothered by the mechanical issue as the wife is. It was mostly a matter of timing that has her still giving me the "evil eye" and for now she doesn't trust the coach.
Wayne, (The PO's friend and fellow FT owner) The wife & I drove the coach for an hour,Thus ensuring all fluids were warmed up, Running the genset and operating every system, hooking it up to shore power, turned on every light on the coach, And inspected it and went over all operating procedures over the course of three hours. as well as reviewing the FULL maintenance history that the PO has from the day the coach was first delivered.
So you have spent two or three times as much on your coach over 3.5 yrs. Well! Good for you. But It's much different when I spent 1/3 to 1/2 the CB's you have spent in 3.5 yrs in a mere 3.5 DAYS in an emergency situation along the side of a road. So I'd appreciate you not making any more patronizing comments.
Hey! Lighten up, these things will end and no one is laughing at you, we've been there and could be there right now.
I can't fully appreciate your situation--because we didn't have that experience that with our Foretravel.
However, I truly believe things will get better as you "iron out the kinks" from a vehicle that has suffered from non-use. I really hope you can "hang in there" until you--and especially your wife--are able to build up the confidence to really enjoy your coach. We enjoy ours so much that I hope you can soon enjoy yours, as well!
We went through some similar frustrations, except I also had two kids with us - so I always had three faces looking at me pitifully as I tried to fix things! All good now, if that gives you any hope. These are just things we work through on older equipment.
Chris
I am SO very sorry that you had this happen on your very first trip! What bad luck. You certainly did all the right stuff before purchase trying out every system and doing your due diligence before leaving the driveway. I am totally upset that your wife has had to deal with this and has had her excitement ruined by the stress of a breakdown before she had any fun. I understand her being leery and I can only say that I hope that the next trip is a dream and erases the anxiety of this one. Our first coach was purchased in Mesa, AZ and we learned how to drive it on the way home to Philadelphia. We had NEVER been in a motor home before and knew NOTHING. We were complete idiots. We spent our first 3 coach bucks in Oklahoma Freightliner, when we had to stop for repair. Hole in the manifold, hole in the intercooler ... some other stuff. We were too dumb to know that stuff didn't sound right or that the engine didn't operate properly. You are WAY ahead of our learning curve. PLEASE tell your Dear Wife that I urgently wish for her to have faith and that there is a world of wonderful times ahead in that coach.
As was told to me by a friend that got me sold on Fortravels (I'm on my third) is that the coach stays up at night figure out what is going to be broken in the morning.
In my business I hear all the time. "It was working yesterday"
I have a friend that bought a NEW $300K + motor home 3 years ago. On his first trip home from picking it up at the dealer he ended up after 50 miles limping it back to the dealer to get it fixed. After two weeks he goes and picks up again and makes the 200+ mile trip back to his home in Houston. Next week he goes on a trip to Florida. A few hours out and Generator stops. It then starts raining and after 1/2 hr of the wipers running they stop. I forgot what else broke on that trip but it was a BRAND NEW RV His one day trip to Florida turned into 3 or 4. He got so tired of that MH breaking he traded it in for a new 2015 Entrega He made a trip to Bolivar for the weekend and by the time he made the hour & half trip all 3 AC's had stopped working in 90+ degree temps. He just turned around and drove back home with no AC's working.
I was staying at the RV park in Galveston and a brand new Provost pulls in. After the guy gets it parked he go and opens up the side compartment and pulls out his tool box, goes and opens the rear hatch and starts wrenching on the engine. I could not handle sitting there watching him wrenching on a new Provost with paper tags. I asked him what he was doing and he said that he had just been stranded on the side of the highway when a hose broke. He had gotten the hose replaced but it was dripping and he had decided to let it drip until he got to the campground. Mileage on coach was just over 3K.
You and your wife have my deepest sympathies. Won't bore anyone with stories....all I can say is I truly hope the road ahead is better ! Chaterham will make a great towed !
I know no one is laughing at me Mike. I have had a great many phone calls and texts and replies in the forum from concerned members. Not one of them save for caflashbob made mention of how much they have spent over the course of their ownership compared to my experience this weekend. Thus inferring that I should just shut up about it.
I'm normally good natured and always try to see the humor in everything. BUT I have a very short fuse & become a bit intolerant when a person comes along and tells me while I'm dealing with this situation that the money I have had to spend is "no big deal" because they have spent so much more than I have, all while driving his coach to the shop voluntarily for a fix or upgrade. Not under duress hung off the back of a tow rig on a rainy Saturday night. That is the very definition of a patronizing/condescending remark. And I'll not stand by silently.
On another note. The shop sent an email saying that the coach "should" be done by the 29th. Depends on how much of an issue it is to remove the broken exhaust manifold bolt.
All this will pass and we will write about our coach trip from hell in our journal along side an old entry relating to a TT trip from hell involving a US military MWR rental trailer in the black hills of SD.
I used to keep a journal, now I log the weather. ^.^d
Please (and this goes for everyone) - if you receive a response that you feel is inappropriate/snarky/unhelpful, if you hover over More on that post, there is a "Report Post". The moderators want to keep the forum helpful and useful, so letting them know who has been "less than helpful", especially with a technical topic, helps them be more effective in addressing problem posts (and users).
sorry it did not go well so far. And to be angry at my comments I apologize.
Will remember. Wish you good future luck on your similar to our coach.
Most if not all of my CB's spent since purchase were proactive. Reactive is not my way after 30 years of being in the high line Rv management biz.
My local expert guru/friends have been invaluable as one is a systems and electronic expert and the other was my FORETRAVELS dealers top mechanic.
Plus I studied every detail in every high line brand i sold.
Not an excuse for my insensitivity.
I hope your DW sees the good over the long run in the coach.
BigDog,
Sounds like the coach sat around without exercise for too long. Once the "kinks" are worked out with frequent use. You'll be just fine. Too bad this is not happening under your control while at home and ready to spend the time diagnosing and working out the kinks.
Hope all goes well and you get home safe and sound. Pamper the coach and it will serve you well.
Well because for me. I believe in first answering a person in a calm manner and allowing things to be worked out amongst our selves. Then if it escalates further we can call in the Ninja kill squad. Not at the first hint of a squabble. This was just a minor thing between caflashbob and I, No need for Ninja's at this point in time. Nothing to see here, please move along.
Maybe you are refering to moderators on some other forum???
Fair enough, Apology accepted. ^.^d
No, just moderators in general. :whistle:
You would be correct. Two years and the coach was used maybe twice for an hour or two on Vancouver Island and down the block to go into winter storage at Wayne's coach house while Wayne races the Canadian Geese. But it was always plugged into shore power.
Yep! All this was not happening on my schedule. That is the crux of the problem. The coach did it's best cliff notes version of Mutiny on the Bounty.
When my wife got home from work tonight, She asked how difficult would it be to sell it. That's what I'm up against. And of course when she reads the forum and nearly 100% of the folks always make mention of the large amounts of coach bucks spent. Even in the well meaning responses to our issue. She then just shakes her head and groans. I'm trying my best to stay off the forum when she is home.
Regards to the aqua hot, maybe good news. If you were driving, then the coolant in the aqua hot would have been at least partly warmed up and the diesel would have to run for only a short time to get to cut off temp. and the green light would remain on. If you were not getting heat out of the registers, may a stuck check valve which can in most times be unstuck by a gentle tap with a hammer handle. so probably not a problem with it. good luck with the other repairs
Ron makes a good point (and we have some excellent AquaHot technical folks on the forum - Roger Berke and Rudy). If the vents were blowing, but just cold, it could be as simple as a stuck zone valve.
If both users do not have a smile on their face about a motorhome then this can be difficult.
We here seem to be brain dead. The price of our portable freedom machines which takes us in relative luxury is simply the price you pay to have your cake and eat it too.
I used to mention to the dr and lawyers wife's that there was no room service on a Rv and no one was going to fluff your napkin and put it in your lap.
Have to be into nature. Some are into cities and shopping and restaurants.
If the financial and possible inconveniences are a top issue then the commitment might be weak or the budget is being strained.
Not a fun first voyage. I feel for the posters as we REALLY enjoy our similar old unicoach.
Thanks for the tip. I saw on the site you linked to that the selector repair is a very reasonable $385.
The shop has set aside the shift selector. It's small and weighs nothing so no reason to not have it hanging around the coach.
I ran into a lot of problems after purchasing my FT at a repo auction. I expected some, but nowhere near as many as occured. In the heat of the moment, I was frustrated and overwhelmed, but after making the repairs and getting everything up and running, I looked back at the 5-6 coach bucks spent right after the purchase price spent and the traveling to get it and realize I still got into an RV that is much nicer than almost anything on the market for the price of a small travel trailer, basically. Even a brand new $90,000 class C or A at the lower end of the price scale would be smaller, less comfortable, less usable, and more than likely still have a ton of warranty issues requiring repairs.
Getting stranded on your first trip sucks, but it happens, even with brand new RVs! The only difference is you are starting with something a lot nicer!
Oh Oh! More drama. Warped exhaust manifold. :'(
Is there any reason youre fixing all this exhaust stuff in the heat of the moment, vs getting it drivable, home, and finding an affordable solution? Was there a massive exhaust leak before? sounds like they are going after stuff?
Are they going after stuff? Well that could be. Yet an exhaust leak is nothing to ignore. At first it was just a broken exhaust bolt that they found while doing the oil change. My thoughts are how the heck did it depart from being flat. (over heating is the usual cause) And did the warping cause the bolt to break? Not sure though how an exhaust manifold would be any cheaper here in Podunk Walla Walla.
Now there is the labor cost to R&R the manifold twice that I need to consider. If I'm already into it for three hours or so, would a used and possibly suspect manifold be so much cheaper that it would make up for the three or so extra hours already accrued? I'm waiting for an email from them quoting the cost of the manifold.
In the mean time. Has anyone bought a used 1998 Cummins M11 exhaust manifold for comparison?
Jerry,
Not unusual for a manifold to warp once a stud breaks,(studs can break for many reasons) but before that bunch take you for a meal ticket for the rest of the month why not get it machined and resurfaced to remove the warping. That is also normal unless the warp is large, and that the manifold is not cracked. Then it has to be welded and resurfaced afterwards.
just a thought.
Brian.
I agree, I would take a resurfaced manifold over a new one. Once the warping has occured, flatten it out, reinstall properly and it should hold good, in my experience better than starting with a brand new one, and I am an expert at stress testing cummins manifolds. (the pic below is a C8.3)
(https://www.foreforums.com/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hilineauto.com%2Fhotturbo.jpg&hash=6f2461c542333112522cb988de3b846c" rel="cached" data-hash="6f2461c542333112522cb988de3b846c" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.hilineauto.com/hotturbo.jpg)
Nothing wrong with a seasoned manifold. Have it surfaced and off you go. As good as, or better than new.
Raymond
I find my self between a rock & a hard place. I found a site that sells the three piece manifold for $312. the cost from this dealer is $888. Problem is that the manifold has already been taken off, The turbo removed. The flat rate for the M11 manifold R&R and removing the broken bolt is 8 hours, Which I'm already in for on this job. So looks like I'm toast on this one. $5,000 so far.
Anyone want to buy a Caterham super 7?
Yikes, when it rains it pours!!
Ask them if they would get yours machined locally?
I would get it machined, it should be a lot cheaper
Have you decided what to do, Boss?
As a nubie that has just made his very first RV purchase I'm feeling rather demoralized & utterly defeated by our experience.
I told VFI to just get it fixed so we can move on. manifold will arrive on Wednesday next week.
In the end this will be an $8,300 dollar endeavor for us, Which includes Wa. State sales tax on the coaches purchase.
Hopefully the Foretravel gods will now smile on you guys.
As I grit my teeth while I continue to go through ours the crazy enjoyment tempers the money spent. At least for us.
No way in our case to come out with what we have spent.
As I have told countless customers "the only way out is to drive the investment out of the coach."
Spent three days ending today parked at a San Diego beach almost on the sand.
75's to 80 degrees. Surf breaking. All of our stuff with us and our cat.
Safe, private, quiet, roomy, easy to drive, fantastic vision out the windows, our food and entertainment yet moveable and all season.
Hard to duplicate any other way.
Odds are it will now turn good.
Rare event. Unfortunate as a Newby. Not fair versus a lot of us grizzled repeat offenders.....
Trick is to get back on the horse in my way of thinking.
Most rv'ers do not go to Vegas much. Almost put a large casino out of biz long ago as the rv'ers were waiting for happy hour and the buffet. Tables empty.
We gamble on our coaches I guess?
Hope it works out better from now on.
I feel your pain and had the same when I bought this current coach. It was not my first so that was good but coaches this old are always going to have an issue or two if they sit for a while. The good thing us once you get thru this you will have a coach to enjoy. There is nothing like waking up in Yellowstone with Buffalo under the window or in Jackson Hole looking at the mountains or in the smokie mountains of TN. It is great to drive somewhere and just stop for the night in a rest area. No unpacking or going in and getting your room. You got to see the ugly part first but the good part is better. Of and be thankful it is WA state not VA. My tax alone to register the coach was 11 grand and I paid a bit less each year. It is more expensive tax wise then my house.
I surely do understand your feelings at this point ... and I know myself well enough to know that if I were in your DW's shoes, I might be echoing her statements and bending Mr Wonderful's ear about money down the drain. BUT ... since I now have the perspective of years and experience with older coaches (we started with a '93) and waving goodbye to $$ ... I can say that the places I have been and the sights I have seen and the people I have met and grown to know FAR outweigh the $$. If I had never purchased a coach ... and just taken vacations or cruises or trips abroad ... I would have spent the same (or more!) and no had nearly the education and enjoyment. If I look at it that way, our mishaps and repairs (and , in my case, excessive remodeling) are not money down the drain. Please take it easy on yourself and let the doubt go with both hands. You will soon be having much better experiences! See ya down the road!! Oh ... and, while I am trying not to stray "Off Topic" ... just let me know if my Private Messages to you have gotten through. I know I should be sending this to you that way, instead of on this thread ... but I got no reply to my previous message.
Bigdog, A Foreforum member I have been supplying information to is by Lake Tahoe right now. He is driving a 1989 GV with the 8.2T DD V8 from Olympia, WA to Florida. No towed, first time with this coach, no manuals to consult, holding his breath every time something happens. He is welcome to call me anytime for aid.
Just think, almost nothing is available for that coach, seeing as how it is an Oshkosh Truck chassis (sold to Freightliner) and virtually no one has any information on it anymore. Scarey, isn't it? And I have the same year and style coach! Yet we go anyway and enjoy the good parts. At least you can get parts while I would be up the creek.
The time will come when all these problems are behind you and you will be able to look back and laugh at what it took to get you to where you want to be.
Good luck. I hope this is the last hurdle to pleasantly enjoying your Foretravel coach.
It's the "10 Coach Bucks Syndrome" after one has bought a used coach. We had it bad when we bought our first Airstream MH, but after fixing the (what I think was PO ingnorance) major problems, we ran it for a few years with normal upgrades. The day we bought the second AS, we headed for The Northwest Territories with only a LOF. She ran and ran for twenty years, we put two hundred fifty thousand miles on her and she still ran like a bandit when we moved to the Foretravel. Bottom line? I'm convinced any problems with coaches are A) Lack of upkeep & B) A "Monday Rig", built by techs with hangovers. :facepalm:
Not that it will make you feel better about your purchase (although I hope it will...), I spent the first two years of coach ownership lying underneath it learning to weld... Completely rebuilt the basement and bulkhead joints and replaced and augmented most of the framing under the utility compartment. It was difficult to stay positive at the time, to say the least... I love our coach all the more knowing what is underneath the skin, but I am sooo glad that that is behind me now. I hasten to add that Tys was a champ in having the patience to allow me to do what I felt I need to do to remedy the problems...
Yet another Bulkhead Separation Story, Chapter 1 (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=13602.msg75853#msg75853)
Chassis construction photos from Don and welding on your FT (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=14530.msg84874#msg84874)
Don
All will eventually work out. I'm not nearly as negative as my posts might indicate. One of my flaws is that i tend to be a deep thinker at times. Why is something the way it is? Get's me into mental trouble often.
As a person that was trained in electronics & maintained nuclear missiles. (Minuteman II) I know for a fact that the Allison shift selector has about $10-$15 worth of parts in it. No ECM, No internal power supply. Each button has an assigned voltage that the ECM on the trans sees as a certain request. It's simply a wired remote. Three years ago I had a mechanical hand made German watch made for me (STOWA) and is far more complex a machine than this shift selector and STOWA only make a few thousand a year. And it cost less than this shift selector. It's also not as if this shift selector is a rare thing either. Every garbage truck has one, Every city and long distance buss has one. The fact that they then charge over $1,000 for it, Goes nearly into the criminal extortion arena. Heck the iMac I'm typing this post on has 79 buttons, so in the Allison world I should have paid $13,166 for this computer. So when I sit and think of all that. I then get going and vent a bit in a post.
I even had a day dream while i was at Les Schwab yesterday. I imagined I went in asking for a new schrader valve core as the old one was leaking, They just threw me one & said no charge. But being curious they asked what it was for. I said it was for my Foretravel motor coach. The guy grabbed the valve core he had just given me and promptly said it was now $300 dollars. :))
Just think what the charge might have been if you'd have told him it was for a Newell!
Good one DJ, thanks for the laugh. ^.^d
Or a DD 8.2T V8. They would have told you to just go on down the road (as if you could).
"Why is something the way it is.?" Describes a lot of us here.
Worse for me in some ways as I asked that same question on every coach I sold or used for 30 years.
Worked on my old off road bike every time I got back to the pits for seven years.
Finally got off and got a beverage instead and my DW and buddies asked what was wrong?
"It's done" was my answer.
I modded diesel pushers brand new many times.
Every part relates to every other part. Lots of details to learn. Most just want it to go.
Some, maybe like you, want to know the details.
I only have had problems with things I did not know not the stuff I knew all about.
Normally. Sometimes. Maybe.
Bob, I look at "why is something the way it is" in a bit different light.
I do in fact know why the shift selector is so expensive. The clue is in my valve core day dream. And in the following.
When I was starting a small business and needed phone service. (This was back in the US West / Quest days). I called to add a second line in my house for my business that contracted to FedEx. No brick & mortar, Not retail of any kid. They quoted the very same price as my home line for the second line. They then asked what name to list under the number. When they heard the name, They said Oh wait a minute, This will be a business line? Yes I said. Well then it will cost this much. Which was nearly double the home line. Same services. I asked why and they said you are a business and are making money so it's a business expense. WHAT? So because it's a write off they charge more.
The shift selector is so expensive because most vehicles that use them are commercial in nature and earn the vehicles owners money, As such those high costs for parts & repair can be written off at tax time. For the motor home owner this isn't the case most of the time & thus "get the shaft" of the special business pricing.
Went to Mount Vernon to pick up the coach on Saturday, Stayed the night for a Sunday return to Walla Walla. Everything went well this time around. I went south on I-5 to I-405, Then I-90 East. Traffic was so light that I was on cruise control (discounting the interchanges) That 450 Cummins pushing a 36' coach, Didn't even slow down on the Snoqualmie climb. Had a few 5% assents & descents from Elensberg to Yakima. It didn't break a sweat, The coolant temp didn't budge and that retarder. Crikey, It's like tossing an anchor out the back. Even on a 3 mile 5% descent, The trans temp never went past 200 on the descent.
Glad it has all worked out OK and that you are home again. It seems like an age since we met in Kennewick and showed you and you wife around our coach.
We trust that you have many happy years of Foretravelling without any more drama. The past will soon be a bad memory.
Brian & Maribel.
Glad you made it back in such style. Hope your wife was with you, and has grown her smile back.
Len
That's because at our age, A few weeks is like a few months. :))
Glad you are finally able to enjoy it!
Awesome Big Dog! Glad it was a non event - and Soooooo many cool places for you in the NW to use the new FT
Hope the DW comes around as well.
Bigdog, glad you got your issues resolved . Our reward for having problems is driving these beasts down the roads with those big diesels humming and the Foretravels driving like they are on tracks.
Enjoying the trip to wherever .Hope you have many ,many enjoyable trips.
Regards,Irwin
BD, the thrill is back! A good day with that FT, 450HP pushing your 36' up and down hills and over the flatlands and your face will ache from smiling so much. A extra challenge on the way home, overcome. The way forward begins now for you and your wife to grow older with your FT and enjoy every minute of it, good (mostly) or bad (a wee bit perhaps).
Welcome back to the world of happy Foretravelers.
Hey BigDog,
Glad you finally got your couch home! We pick ours up from RnR RV last Thursday and spent three days in Chelan before getting home on Monday.
Mike
Firstly, I think the few guys who have been a bit patronizing were not being patronizing so much as sympathetic or empathetic. Meaning hey we've been there and you'll get through it. Personally your comments resonate deeply with me because my wife really would prefer a smaller simpler newer rig and the big complicated bus is my deal. So even when I take care of all the issues (and all the driving) I still catch hell. Also I'm a BMW racer not a caterham racer so you might only be slightly more nuts than I am but we're both racers ;)
That said, I'm going to reaffirm your sentiment that you got a raw deal. $5K sucks. In my case I've had some significant trauma and in every situation I came out smelling like a rose. We broke down in Iowa. It was a terrible experience. I got setup by the cops with an aggressive undercover driver, pulled over and hassled because I was out of state, dressed like crap and my toad was filthy (covered in oil and dirt from the blown hose). We hired a mobile mechanic who came out and was a *moron*. I mean absolutely useless. His truck was beaten and battered. This was through Good Sam so they tried to make us pay a call out fee. We said, no we can't out of principle and had to argue for hours with the. We won but it wasn't worth it. Eventually I had to disassemble everything and fix the hose. Hydraulic hose I had made up for $70 at Napa. It was 2 cheap lessons regarding police and mechanics but man I was really broken down emotionally at the time.
Then there was my winnebago. I carefully went over it and replaced SO much stuff before we took off. Entire cooling system, brakes tires tuneup and other bits, just as preventative maintenance. The ONLY thing I didn't do was the fuel pump because it was right on the cutoff of the known bad fuel pump and I wasn't sure I had a good or bad one. I had a bad one. Found out after cresting a mountain on the crow indian reservation in Montana. I had no cell phone service and no way to figure out that 3 miles BEHIND us was cell phone service and 60 miles IN FRONT OF US was nothing. So we drove for 40 miles to use a phone at a gas station in Lame Deer as the Cheyenne population looked on at us as though we were invaders. Good sam couldn't find a tow for us and we had to wait on the phone with them for HOURS as they tried. I mean _4_ hours. Eventually we gave up and told them if they could find one great, if not, great. We went back and the damn thing started and ran. We went to the nearest campground who graciously allowed me to drop the tank and replace the pump myself. I sprang for the expensive $400 OEM pump and was successful though I'm sure I cut a few years off my life due to the fumes.
Back on to the Foretravel a bracket on our radiator broke. Spent 2 days removing it and replacing it in the parking lot of the manufacturer who agreed to fix it _ for free _ for us, 5 years after it was made. Yes I spent 2 days of my life under the bus extricating the damn thing but again it all worked out.
The aquahot is finicky. We had a zone die and it turned out the brush holder popped out. The brush for that zone motor was just laying in the pan. Put it back in and that zone worked perfectly. Generator died. Loose connection on a glow plug. Sticky caliper, ring power wanted to charge us $125/hr * 5. Turned out to be $125/hr * 1 since we were up their butts and staying in the rv while they worked. (They just pulled hte pins, cleaned, greased and reinstalled. I know there isn't supposed to be grease so it's something we have to handle). Leaking hub on the other side done at Yasbeck who only charges $85/hr (highly recommended).
Numerous other problems here and there. The few points here are:
1) You are NOT alone. Yes I've made poop smell like roses financially but it's still a pain in the butt and immensely time consuming to chase all the issues.
2) You will get past it. At least I hope you will. I have. I caught up wtih everything and hte coach is still enjoyable. Still every time I drive it I have $10K waiting to be spent in a worst case scenario. I think that is good advice too. Every time you drive it be prepared for a breakdown, be preapred to spend $10K. It's stress I never knew I had to deal with and finding the inner peace to roll with it is a challenge.
3) Foretravel is not honda. It's more like Lamborghini. They are amazing and temperamental. I'm sure they're really lovely when they are new but my coach is pushing 20 years old now. You can't expect perfection without going through and replacing every hose, every bolt, etc. The kind of thing I do on my 250,000 mile cars. I just can't afford to do it on the motorhome.
I insist that we should travel in packs. These breakdowns would be a lot better with a bunch of friends having beers helping you fix the issues.
Of course, that's what motorcades are all about-traveling together, with a mechanic.
And of course like an idiot. I went out to show the coach to a friend and left this page up, And who do you guess read the 10K per trip statement. Yep, The wife. So she says it's time to sell. Nice!! Now I need to fight that front as well as the coach.
You need another opinion. If everytime you get in your coach to go anywhere you are expecting a breakdown, expecting a $10K repair and living in fear then don't do it. Start with shorter trips, learn how your coach works, build confidence with experience. Go further, go longer, be confident. Do the reasonable and practical maintenance. Do the reasonable and practical preventative work.
Stuff happens, things need to get fixed. Get CoachNet. Put some money aside just in case as you would do for any other aspect of your life. Leave the fear behind and have fun. Make this experience your own, live by the rules your own experience dictates.
Bob, who is "you". A positive attitude and some encouragement here would be nice.
Load up, head somewhere close for a long weekend and go camping in your camper.
Put the awnings out ,build a campfire, have some cocktails,grill a steak and enjoy camping in comfort. It'll be Great!!
It's not that you will spend $10K *every* trip. Most trips you will spend nothing. But it's possible! You have to be prepared for the possibility mentally. It makes dealing with the $500 24 hour delays that happen now and again a little easier. I think it's just the issue with moving an entire house around. What else are you going to do, buy a boat?! lol that's like $30K per trip and they can sink while you're at it.
And as for what Roger said, sorry. I get some anxiety every time I drive the coach. But regardless of said anxiety the experience is worth it. It is a risky and potentially very expensive experience. You can't check out mentally and stick your head in the sand because if something bad DOES Happen you'll go off the deep end. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst is a recipe for a happy life. At the same time, I think I find a lot MORE anxiety because we are fulltimers and we have no house to retreat to. If it burns, if I crash it, if we are robbed, we have major problems on our hands.
I've never heard of anyone for whom that "10K per trip" statement is even remotely accurate. I think most people spend perhaps a few thousand during the first year of ownership making some combination of necessary repairs and desired (but not required) upgrades. Please encourage you wife by telling her that once you've spent the money you've already spent on repairs you have almost certainly taken care of the major issues and that future necessary repairs should be far less expensive. We thoroughly enjoy using ours, and I think your wife will soon learn to enjoy yours once you really start using it.
bigdog, please don't give up, tell Mrs. bigdog that it really does get better....my coach sat for about 8 years in the hot FL sun, 1st check I wrote was for over $12,000 the day I "met" her...was happy to do it, 'cause then she was like new on the inside...since then, have only done stuff to be proactive & upgrade: tires, airbags, etc. though nothing initially wrong with the chassis, engine, or other major systems.
It really does get better....you just happened to get it all at once on day 1. Take the advice of the others, plan shorter, closer to home trips & take it a day at a time. You have an amazing resource here with this forum that most other brand owners don't have, don't give up the ship. Best to you both & hope to see you all down the road one day!
As everyone knows, the truth of the matter is all "things" on planet earth deteriorate to include rocks (if you wait long enough). Among the most maintenance needy "things" are liveaboard boats and for that matter, children and adult children! One of the RV developmental steps for DW and myself was to accept that our MH was an additional monthly and annual expense EVEN if it never had a problem. If we owned a second home, bingo ... additional monthly expenses. And so it is with our motorhome. Our RV emotional index calmed down considerably after we just accepted the cost of having this adventure. And so it goes.
This. At least give it a try, and see if it's all worth it. If so, great. If not, cut your losses now. No way of enjoying the experience unless both partners are happy, too small a space. Ownership expense can be managed, my biggest expense in 4 years has been, by far, tires. The 10K is for catastrophic expenses, rebuilt transmission, head, etc. Good maintenance and a thorough understanding of systems, along with the willingness to deal with things as they happen, twist a few wrenches yourself help to avoid catastrophes. Open checkbook ownership, while certainly pleasant, is only for some.
After catastrophic losses during the stock market plunge (our broker was in the hospital with cancer for three months) and another catastrophic loss when our deceased broker's business was frozen for another three months, we considered selling our '89 coach. But, after debating we decided that the coach was paid for, that downsizing would put us in a "camper", that we would lose our opportunity to travel in security, we decided that, even tho tires, repairs, etc would come along, that we were better off with the Foretravel GV.
We have not regretted our decision (even with our impending engine repair cost) and strongly recommend you and the DW get out and pursue the DREAM you sought when you first bought your coach.
I always remember two sayings my Mother had: "She never saw an armored Brinks truck following a hearse," and "Coffins do NOT come with pockets!"
Jerry,
There have been many good comments since you started this saga, and we both wish you all the best, and you will have great times in your coach once you can convince DW that it is a good plan. I guess I have to ask "what did DW have in mind "when you started off on the plan to get the FT from BC??
In my case when we found our first one, a GV that had not moved for several years, I was told "if you can fix the mechanical side I would love to clean up the inside"!! And, at that time we knew nothing about coaches, it did not run, the batteries were shot, and I could put the key into the cracks in the tires for over 1/4inch!! Two weeks later we drove it away for batteries, tires and then the air bags that I knew nothing about. The mechanics comments on those was "I would not have driven it across the yard!!
I have been guilty of many "bright ideas" that were dumped on DW over the years. Usually starting with "look what I have got"!! That would usually be an airplane in pieces that would eventually fly way after many airplane bucks etc!! Or, a car that need a lot of attention, and DW wou;ld have liked a new one for her instead of the constant fix one that she drove!!
We eventually, after a couple of years of great trips, traded the GV for the one that we have now, and that you saw. Some of my "Coach Bucks" spending has been due to me wanting things perfect, and not that they needed doing right here and now. We have never suffered a breakdown other than the tire incident with the metal extensions that broke off the valves stem at the rim, and then a bad wheel bearing on the way home again. The bearing had to be down to lack of maintenance and my lack of understanding the needs of a coach.
It is a steep learning curve that you unfortuatly ran into on the way home, but please let it go and get out and have fun.
Brian.
I did discuss with the wife having to put some money into an older coach that has sat for a time. For her it has been a few things that have happened to various motorized vehicles over the years, Along with our coach doing it's mutiny at the time it did. In hind sight it was a mistake on my part to not insist that we drive our car to take delivery of the coach, Then have the wife follow me home. Then she was cold the whole trip do to the AH not putting out any heat. (it was rainy & in the ^forties to fifty degrees) that didn't help in the least either.
She does see a motorhome as a great way to see the country & wants to do this, But has a deep rooted mistrust of vehicles. It will take a few uneventful trips change things. But in the mean time she will stew about it all winter till the weather turns warmer and we take our first trip.
Jerry,
As it appears you will be parking it for the winter make sure you winterize it thoroughly so you don't get any surprises in the spring just as you are leaving on the inaugural voyage. You don't need to earn any more bad marks!!
There are a lot of ways to do it and many good suggestions here on the forum. or, a PM if I can help, having done mine with help from other members.
Brian.
Anything as complicated as a motorhome will need attention and money. Before we decided to buy our '93 GV we spent lots of time speaking about expectations and what we might have to spend on upkeep. We learned most of the answers on this amazing forum.
My wife is my partner and we are sure to include each other in all of our big decisions from the beginning. Neither of us particularly like surprises and with both of us being on the same page tends to limit them. She is still not quite 'all in' yet but she giving it a try because she knows that this has always been a dream on mine. If after a couple of years she decides that she doesn't enjoy it, I'll sell the coach and will be grateful that she gave it a try. What fun would it be without your best friend at your side anyway? ^.^d
The reality it that any home will require upkeep. They contain a bunch of complicated systems that have to work with each other to move these 15 ton beasts down the road.
We chose FT because we wanted the best. The bones are good. Parts and support are available and they were engineered to last.
I hope it works out for you. Safe travels.
Jerry, instead of winterizing why don't you consider taking a trip south?
The wife is still working (Army Corp of Engineers). She plans on retiring in 12-18 months.
Susan is certainly my partner too. While we both have our own interests we work well together to get tasks and projects done. We collaborate with and enrich each other.
When we bought our FT it was after a few years of thinking and searching. Our agreement was that we would buy a coach and give it a fair run for five years and then reevaluate costs, benefits, other interests, health and mobility issues and anything else that might cause us to trade this adventure for some other adventure. It have been five years and we have enthusiastically re-upped for another five.
In the last five years we have been traveling for about 23 months. We have done upgrades, major fixes and things to make the coach our home. We have been to the most amazing places. We are now very much into the short drives and long stays after the road trip thinking wore off. And by far the best part has been meeting wonderful people along the way, great new friends and making a sincere effort to help other people on our Forum.
It is a lifestyle choice. We have had an RV for over 40 years so we were already into it. Budget time and money and get started. Give it a fair chance.nd after a few years look back and see what you have done, the people you have met, the time together and what it has come to mean to you. Maybe you will go another way. Probably not.
Our first trip didn't start too well either. We lifted up the seat on the "jackknife" sofa while looking for the pump motor because it wasn't working. The coach seat slammed down on the DW's head--one day after her cataract surgery!! Needless to say we were very worried.Got the pump working (connections were loose)
We were boondocking in Upper Michigan so no electricity. My generator is quite noisy so we ran a cord to our friend's Honda generator thru the front pass side window. A bat came in during the night and really freaked the DW out the next day, but Rocket thought it was neat, having a flying "mouse" to chase all over the coach.
First time out the driveway, going down the road, saw something black following us, kept watching, finally realized it was our 50A cord. Not good for it!!
About a month ago I backed the coach off our leveling ramps (the driveway slopes) and forgot to retract the HWH jacks--OOPS!!
Things happen but ultimately the reward of having one of these miraculous time machines is well worth the tribulations.
You are a poet, I hope you know it! ^.^d