Well, here we go.
My transfer switch does not seem to be working. Right now when I plug into shore power (tested), nothing lights up on the monitor. If I unplug and crank the genet, the monitor lights up and we have juice. If I turn the inverter switch on, the microwave comes to life.
I have read up on the past forums, and studied the Beamalarm site, and from what I can gather, the ATS is just not doing it's thing when it comes to shore power.
Several questions.
1. from what I gather in my 99 U270, the ATS should be a Magnatek ATS-100. would that be correct?
2. The ATS should be under the bed. Is that accessible from the bedroom side, or do I need to lift the bed?
3. Am I looking for a galvanized metal housing ?
4. Once disconnected from shore power, and inverter and genset off, do I open the steel case to check the points.?
I will be tearing into this tomorrow and it would be nice to have some idea of where I am headed.
Thanks for your help.
Len & Deb
1. Our ATS was also the ATS-100. We replace it a couple of years ago when we had no power to any 110 vac outlets. We found our replacement at a local RV supply store while traveling in Montana. We removed and replaced ourselves whit the help of FoFum members.
2. Our ATS is under the bed and is accessable when the bed is lifted. Our ATS is in the left front corner.
3. It is a galvanized box with wires coming into and out of it. you should be able to follow wires to the breaker box also at the foot of the bed.
4. We lifted the cover off of the box and tested the legs with a multimeter. First the left side then the right. Then we shut down the power and tested again. We found that power was not passing through the ATS.
We were fortunate that we had help and support from a very knowledgeable member and he talked us through the process. Hopefully one of our "magicians" will step up and help you out.
Good luck.
You do have to lift the bed to find the ATS, witch is in a silver aluminum case, but could be galvanized. The point is, it is a natural metal color, not painted on our coachIt is a good idea to disconnect all AC power when pulling the cover off of the switch. You can then see two sets of contacts inside the box. At that point, If you're careful, you can turn on the shore power and with a noncontact meter preferably, you can see which set of contacts are shore power by checking the input side, which is on the right in our coach, also a 1999 U270. At that point, I would disconnect the shore power, and then you can have a look at the points. You could also have somebody outside turning on the shore power breaker while you observe the points to see if there is any arcing. It sounds like they're stuck in the off position, and possibly a light rap with a rubber mallet on the outside of the case might free it up temporarily. There have been some threads on the form about replacing the points inside the switch, But I think most just replace it. Whatever you do, just be very sure there is no AC power present when you are poking around inside the box!
Don
When you say "tested" did you verify you have voltage at the coach end of your shore power cord? Just to be sure your shore plug, cord, coach connector, and cord reel if you have one...are good...
Allright! Thanks for all the replies. I will attack this tomorrow and probably be back at the keyboard for more advise.
Ya'll have a nice evening.
Len
Another possible solution you could consider, if you enjoy "taking the road less traveled": eliminate the ATS entirely and use a manual switch. I went this route, and we have been very happy with the result. The installation is not complicated, but does require some (very) basic electrical knowledge, relocating and bending some big wires, and making a hole in the end of your bed base. See photos below:
(https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000K2MBBE/ref=s9_dcbhz_bw_d0_g200_i4_sh[/url)
Thanks again to everyone for their helpful input. Turns out after I got into this that the PO had installed a Surgeguard 41260 and a 34560 TRC power protector ATS.
I followed your instructions and found I had power to only one leg at the input on the surge protector.
I went back to the outlet and sure enough, it had both legs.
Then I took the plug, moved the spades back and forth, reinserted it, and voila! Juice!
I have gotten a replacement plug, and am installing it tonight.
When the ATS decides to finally throw craps, I am interested in the manual switch that Chuck and Jeannie suggested. I just need to get better schooled so I know how that affects the rest of the system.
Many thanks again!
Len
@Chuck I too like that manual switch. Can you give some details on operation? Like can you switch while hot?
see ya
ken
Ken,
While you can switch under load, it WILL pit the points. So, in this regard, no different than the ATS. The manual switch is simpler and what you will find on most marine applications.
Like Brett says, it is always a good idea to reduce the loads to a minimum before switching AC sources. I had this habit impressed on me early in our RV learning curve, and have practiced it religiously. That is one of the reasons I believed the ATS was, for me, unnecessary. If I am going to the trouble to manually turn everything off, why do I need a "automatic" AC switching device? For me, it makes more sense to simply add one more step to the change-over process.
As to operation - could not be simpler. The switch is 3 position, so you simply select the desired source, or "OFF" when neither is available. Since you can only select one source at a time, you can be plugged into 50 amp shore power, and
simultaneously have the generator running! This allows great flexibility in managing your power sources.
Typical scenario: It is summer - HOT - we pull off the road into a camp ground with the generator running and roof air going...the switch is on "GEN". I park/level the coach, then go outside and plug the coach into shore power. Go back inside, turning the A/C units off as I go to the bedroom. In the bedroom, with all (big) loads now shut off, I shut down the generator at the remote panel. Then I turn the manual switch to "SHORE", and we again have AC power available. Then, if desired, I turn the air conditioners back on. SIMPLE!
Another BIG advantage to the manual switch: it is
absolutely silent! My wife and I were both particularly sensitive to the "humming" noise made by the ATS when plugged into shore power. Coming from under the foot of the bed, this noise was constant, and (to us) very irritating, especially at night when trying to sleep. I believe installing the manual switch was worth it for this factor alone. Happy Wife = Peaceful Life!
We have actually eliminated
both of the original factory transfer switches in our coach. Soon after I installed this manual AC switch, we added a complete PV system to the coach. Since the Magnum MS2812 inverter we used has automatic switching between inverter/charger function, and automatic "pass-through" of AC power source, the original inverter transfer switch was unnecessary, and was removed.
While on this subject, I have an additional question. Our coach is a 1999 40ft U295. There are two identical transfer switches. One is used for shore power or generator power. The other is used for the inverter. Both are 50A units. My question is why did Foretravel use a 50A unit for the inverter. This seems like TOTAL OVERKILL to me. There are only 3 minor 20A circuits powered by the inverter and the power wire from the inverter to the transfer switch is only common 12-2w/G. Max load on a 12 gauge wire is 20A yet is connected to a 50A transfer switch. Also note that the internal connections in the 50A switch are designed for two No. 6 gauge hot wires in each circuit. There are NO wires connected to the second "HOT" post on any of the terminals.
It would seem to me that a 30A switch wired with 10-2w/G would be more than safe considering the load on the inverter. Any thoughts on this ? Oh yea, Should have started off by saying my Inverter transfer swirtch is bad and has to be replaced!!
Nick
I agree, no need for a 50 amp ATS from inverter unless you need two separate hots (very unlikely).
Also, be aware that many inverters and inverter/chargers have built-in transfer switches. So, if contemplating replacing the inverter, may be able to eliminate the additional ATS.
With the built in ATS, you have power from main breaker box to inverter. When inverter sees 120 VAC, it "passes through" power to circuits that can be powered by the inverter (hopefully through a sub-panel) AND if an inverter/power, also charges the battery.
Being a newbie at this, I am wondering why Nick wouldn't use the 50 amp ATS to fix his problem, and then put in a 30 amp ATS or manual switch to handle the inverter?
Len
I just read own through all this again and discovered that Nick's INVERTER ATS was what had failed. If it had been the other way around, could he have switched to make his shore power usable?
A big "THANKS" to Chuck for his posting re: manual transfer switch. When mine started acting up in various ways I decided it was time to replace it. I ordered the exact one. It was pricey, but doing away with the "WTH?" effect was well worth the price. Now I will no longer wonder what state the switch is in. I'm with Chuck - the process of incrementally shutting down all loads, then transferring manually - and positively - then incrementally adding loads back, is one I much prefer. I live and work full time in the coach - and for those appliances that are better left running (network and computer equipment) I have true sine wave UPSes anyhow, so they are unaffected. I am not going to post pictures - they aren't as pretty as Chuck's... :D But I will say that I took BOTH ATSes out as Chuck did ultimately when he got his solar installed. I wish that my solar installer (AM Solar) had discussed the option with me prior to their work in April. In any case it's done now and I have the peace of mind that follows from having things exactly as you prefer them to be.
The hardest parts of the job were to figure out the modifications made during the solar install, and then mounting in my coach was complicated because it has full thickness plywood covered with carpet instead of a thin wood veneer in the bed base, so I had to chisel out some relief in order to reduce the thickness so the selector knob could be mounted. The space to work in is very scant, but it can be done with some patience. Finally, the heavy gauge wire can be a challenge to secure without stripping the holding screws, but again, patience (despite the hour and the need to get electricity back on) works wonders.
If the manual transfer switch being that is being discussed is installed, how does that installation affect the AUTO-START generator capabilities?
Installed this. Absolutely love it.No hum what so ever. That is why I replaced our old one.Got it in 2 days. Easy swamp out::
50 AMP RV SHORELINE TO GENERATOR AUTOMATIC TRANSFER SWITCH LPT50BRD | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/50-AMP-RV-SHORELINE-TO-GENERATOR-AUTOMATIC-TRANSFER-SWITCH-LPT50BRD/162598743746?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649)
I like this idea. Could you give us some specific info on the switch and where you found it? Webeen turned off the CB at the park's hook up every night before turning in on our last trip. Hum isn't tolerable.
After coordinating with Chuck last winter I picked mine up from Defender
http://www.defender.com/category.jsp?path=-1|328|2290051&id=2290059
Defender.com select electrical-then switch- then selection switch. Having a problem with link copy
They are Marine but usually have good prices.
I got the switch I used for this mod from Amazon (2 years ago) for $295. They have gone up since then:
Amazon.com : AC Rotary Switch - OFF + 2 Positions 240V AC 65A : Boating... (https://www.amazon.com/AC-Rotary-Switch-Positions-240V/dp/B000K2MBBE)
Here is the link to the supplier mentioned by G & S above:
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1%7C328%7C2290000%7C2290004&id=1329856
Shop around (Google) before buying. Prices at various suppliers seem to vary up and down for no particular reason.
One last quick note. We are leaving the boating season and we will shortly be in the Annapolis Boat Show time in October. Defender and others have significant sales at that time.
This member asked a question that was not answered, and I'm wondering if you guys (Rich, G&S) who installed the manual switch can help him. We don't have generator auto-start on our coach, so I don't know how it works or how it relates to the ATS function. Anybody?
Sorry I can't help on this one. I do not use and will not use auto start. I understand why others do but I just could not adjust to the genset operating without manual activation. I will probably need to get over this if we go to residential but no help now.
Well, now that I am thinking about it, the answer to the question seems pretty logical. Say I do have generator auto-start. If I have my manual switch set on "SHORE" and the shore power fails, then (I assume) the generator would (at some point) automatically start up to supply AC power and keep my house batteries charged. BUT, it would not do any good, because my manual switch is set on "SHORE". I would have to be there (in person) to recognize the shore power failure, and turn the manual switch to "GEN". If not, the inverter (if set to "AUTO") would deplete my house batteries.
So the answer to the member's question is this: In this scenario, the generator auto-start function would be of no benefit with this manual switch installed. I suppose this scenario is a good argument for staying with a ATS. In that case, the one mentioned by Chris above, with the (quiet) DC-powered relays, sounds like the way to go.
Edit: If you DO install this manual switch, and you DO have generator auto-start, it would still be useful when you are dry camping. In that case, since you are running on inverter, you could leave the manual switch set to "GEN". Then, If your house batteries are drained to the programmed cut-on voltage, the auto-start should fire up the generator, and it would do its job supplying AC power and recharging the batteries. When it cuts off, the inverter would come back on line. ^.^d
As always, Do What Makes You Happy!
Let me digress a moment. Yes that is logical. However, our present solar set up makes this a non issue. Beyond the scope of original question for sure but another benefit of a solar array. Our generator is a nice to have accessory. Like you said Chuck WMYH.
I have been reading this and other threads about the transfer switch hum. Which one does the humming? We are always dry camped when sleeping and never have heard the hum. Does that mean I have to be plugged in for this to happen? Our situation would not allow the manual switch. We leave the coach in a stand by condition, food in the freezer and full of water in case of earthquake it is our survival location. Since it is always plugged in and we don't go out to the coach on a daily or weekly basis, I leave the generator on auto-start incase something fails between my pedestal, (box on outside wall) the generator will start after the batteries reach 12.2 hearing the generator run would alert me to the problem. Food rotting would ruin the freezer, have seen it happen. Are switch failures common enough to add one to my spare parts drawer?
Really surprised to see that the manual switch is (much) more expensive than a replacement ATS. That and the issue of the auto-start, causes me to back off.
Let me re-address the auto-start/manual transfer switch question:
If on shore power and power goes out, NO, it will not work.
But, if dry camping, the manual switch will already be to on generator, so yes it will work.
I second what Chuck said. Sorry, I just checked in and did not see the question till now.
My needs may be a little different from many others'. I live and work full time in the coach. When I'm on shore power, I'm usually working. If I lose shore power for any reason my internet connection and computers continue running on Uninterruptible Power Supplies (UPSes) which also provide some power conditioning (mine are pure sine wave - in fact the power they provide tests out better than power directly from the grid.) As Chuck said, when using shore power, if it fails I can only get power from the generator by manually turning the switch to the generator and starting the generator manually, so the auto-start in that case would be of no use.
On the other hand, if I happen to be away from shore power and using only the solar as a power source then theoretically I could have the transfer switch set to generator, and take advantage of the generator's auto-start feature to kick in when the batteries reach some level of discharge. I don't know what the triggering mechanism is for the generator's auto-start though, so I'll have to look into that.
This is where I bought the switch:
Blue Sea Systems 9019 AC Selector Switch, AC 240VAC 63A OFF +2 (http://shop.pkys.com/Blue-Sea-9019-AC-Selector-Switch-240V-63A-OFF-2_p_2036.html?gclid=Cj0KEQjwgODIBRCEqfv60eq65ogBEiQA0ZC5-UBA0cdMy-0d0PCCFpVykoPH_6l9GXL-QCiVeYyYIJkaAgim8P8HAQ)
Note: I could find only a 32 Amp capacity switch on Defender:
http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|328|2290051|2290059&id=839597
The switch that Chuck and I both installed is a model 9019 65 Amp capacity switch:
Blue Sea Systems 9019 AC Selector Switch, AC 240VAC 63A OFF +2 (http://shop.pkys.com/Blue-Sea-9019-AC-Selector-Switch-240V-63A-OFF-2_p_2036.html?gclid=Cj0KEQjwgODIBRCEqfv60eq65ogBEiQA0ZC5-UBA0cdMy-0d0PCCFpVykoPH_6l9GXL-QCiVeYyYIJkaAgim8P8HAQ)
Not sure if Defender no longer carry s but mine is the same as Chucks. It was there at the time of post for just over $300. Place 9019 in search and it comes up. May be a site problem.
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1%7C328%7C2290000%7C2290004&id=1329856
I am aware that manual transfer switch is an alternative. Eliminating transfer switch completely is another alternative. Just wire shore cable directly to main panel, putting a generator outlet in the bay and plugging the shore cable into it or into campground. Or keep on using automatic relay transfer switches also works just fine. I don't think one way is absolutely the best way as all have some 'disadvantages'.
We don't have a ATS, which is fine with us. I would hope that hi-liners pulling in late would shut down the ATS. Nothing wrecks a dream you're having about a high school sweetheart 50 years ago like a gen coming on in the middle of the night! >:D
Mike,
Suspect you DO have an ATS (Automatic Transfer Switch).
Suspect you do NOT have an automatic generator start.
Yes, true. I stand corrected! ^.^d
Mike,
Oh, I don't know if it bad to be awakened by the generator. Maybe it is a good time to say those three little words to the DW.... "are you awake".
Jim
2002 U320
Chuck, you said: "If you DO install this manual switch, and you DO have generator auto-start, it would still be useful when you are dry camping."
If I understand what you meant correctly, then what you said would only work if the genset provides 120AC power to the Inverter/charger, which via the inverter/charger internal "auto selector switch" provides 120AC power to whatever the inverter was powering. At the same time the charger will start charging the batteries.
With my motorhome, this would not work because my inverter is just an inverter and my battery charging is done with a converter ( a single stage charger which cannot bulk charge).
I found this thread to be very interesting and will post what I did, next.
Wyatt,
Not sure I understand the issue.
With a manual transfer switch set to "generator", when the automatic generator start system starts the generator, ALL circuits powered by the main breaker box (which is what is fed by the transfer switch) are powered. So, whether converter or inverter/charger, they are powered.
BTW, no different than with an ATS. Same circuits are powered by generator.
I removed the inverter power panel and rewired all loads into the main panel.
I reorganized all breakers in the main panel and colour coded them "Red" for the red hot, and "Black" for the black hot.
I installed two manual 65 amp selector switches in the empty space at the top of the power panel.
One manual selector switch selects Shore, Genset, or Inverter to power the "Red" breakers.
The other manual selector switch selects Shore or Genset to power the "Black" breakers.
I separated the neutral bus bar into two neutral bus bars, one for "Red" and one for "Black"
This results in me being able to load balance between red hot and black hot and have the red breakers on Inverter while the black breakers are on the genset or shore.
I ran a second neutral wire from the power panel to the utility bay where I installed two 40 amp, twist lock receptacles, one for "Red" and one for "Black".
Now I can connect two 30 amp power cords to shore power, one for "Red" and one for "Black". even when the shore power receptacles are "ground fault" protected.
I seldom use the 50 amp (really 100 amp) power cord because almost no campgrounds on Vancouver Island have 50 amp receptacles.
I will attempt to post pictures!
Brett, I was responding to Reply #24, third paragraph, which discussed using a manual selector switch with genset autostart.
Thanks for your input.
Sorry folks I cannot remember how to post pictures and must go now for an appointment.
My ATS has failed. Does anyone know where to order an ATS 100 that will fit in the space in a 2000 U320. I have researched the forum but do not see a listing for a replacement. Thanks for your help. Ken
Ken,
If you are a DIY kind of person you can rebuild the ATS 100.
If it is just the contacts that are burnt they are replaceable. We are on the road and don't have the part number for them but I think the number has been posted here on the forum somewhere.
If the coil/relay is bad it is also a replaceable item. There should be a sticker on the relay that will give you a part number that you can cross reference.
Pamela & Mike
How has it failed? Which ATS? ATS 100 has not been sold for many years. Other ATS are available, some have the three 50-amp cables terminated in a different position. As others have said ATS 100 points are available, although not real cheap, sold as each. Also another alternative is your coach probably has two identical ATS 100 transfer switches. The inverter ATS only uses 2 of the 3 relay points, so there is another option for a repair.