We are on our leased lot in Lakewood NM. Thought I would have a propane tank installed on the lot so a as not to deplete the propane in the on board tank. When the installer checked the hookup for leaks he told me I had a propane leak in the coach and could not hook up the tank. Also said the leak was so small that we probably would not notice it. I have gone through a quart of bubble spray to no avail. I have five propane lines off the onboard propane tank. Two 1/2 inch lines: one for the front furnace another for the rear furnace and the Gaggineau two burner stove top. Three 3/8 inch lines: one for the hot water heater, one for the refrigerator and one for??????? I suspect the stove top is probably the issue it seems one of the fittings has a gasket, have not isolated it yet will do that today if I can get aa 3/8 inch barb fitting for my leak detector. But what is the third 3/8 inch lines for I only have five propane appliances.
Roland
Roland, could it be for an out-door grill?
The "extra" line feeds back into the rig with all the other lines. I have not seen any external grill hookup.
Roland
Didn't you already figure out the five lines or am I misunderstanding the issue?
-1/2" front furnace
-1/2" rear furnace
-3/8" hot water heater
-3/8" stovetop
-3/8" refrigerator
I think he is talking total of 6.
I am not sure how many I have. Will have to look when I get home. I also feel I have a leak but can not figure out where it is. When I have the gas turned off at the tank there is no scent. When turned on there is a smell of propane but have no clue where the leak is unless it is one of the copper pipes.
I have had the main shut-off valve leak and no amount of soap,etc. would locate it. After spending Coach Bucks with techs that should have known, (and replaced stuff I did not need) to no avail, I leaned in to the compartment , got in close and found the leak! Replacing the main valve is a bearcat, hard to fully drain the tank, for one thing, but that could be your problem. Let us know what the "pros" find. Good luck, a leak like that (I'm a smoker) is not only dangerous, but doth not make one popular with your neighbors at the park!
The stove top is T into the rear furnace 1/2 inch line. That leaves one "mysterious" 3/8 inch line.
Roland
In this case I'm the expert. I purchased a gauge, same one the pros had, and I hope I can find the leak by isolating stuff. May not be an expert now but will be a lot closure to one when I get finished.
Roland
Thanks for that will check it out first. Work room the tank out.
Roland
A tech will have a special (usually shop-made) wrench to remove the valve: with mine, it was a two-man job to unscrew it! No one will let you vent propane because of ka-boom! My guy told me of a flat, un-occupied place to drain the tank. It took forever, even with all propane systems lit! I finally broke the rules and opened the bleeder, it still had enough in the tank to freak-out the tech (and me) when we pulled the valve!
Darn self correct. "will check out the tank shutoff". Was in a hurry and did not check my post before I posting.
Roalnd
I chased a propane leak for almost a year. I replaced the fill valve, the shutoff valve, and the bleeder valve and still had a leak.
I was sitting there with the compartment door open late in the afternoon, just shaking my head (could hear it rattle) and the sun was on that side of the coach. I could SEE the shadow of the propane fumes coming out the bottom of the regulator!!
Replaced the regulator and haven't had a leak since!! I had tried the liquid that was supposed to locate leaks but never thought to apply it to the screen on the regulator. I applied it all around every fitting after totally dismantling the pipes in the compartment and re-doping the ends and didn't find my leak.
You lucked out by being at the right angle! The regulator is easy to replace (even I've done it!), but the master valve leaks so slowly, that most would be hard-pressed to find it. The OP would just be wise to replace the mstr. shut-off valve FIRST. I wonder if his/hers propane "sniffer" is going off? Those things will smell spilled whiskey and go off. Don't ask how I know.
I still say it was our cat that released the methane. I still say!!
Our coach was once owned by a member of the Greatfull Dead, it was a nitrous oxide inhaler that leaked first.
Roland, don't take a gas leak lightly. A plumber will have an electronic gas sniffer the will quickly locate an otherwise hard to find leak. Most likely at a fitting. Pretty rare for a copper line to fail unless it is rubbing up a hard edge. If in doubt turn off the gas at the tank.
Roger, I am not taking the leak lightly am going to find it one way or another. I have the same leak detector that they used to tell me I had a leak in the rig. They do not work on RVs. They also told me the leak was so small we probably never noticed it, well he was correct on that statement. I had a similar situation in our SnB with natural gas. Pros never found it, I did. I'll try and work this one out also. If I have to buy a sniffer then that's what I'll do but I will find the leak.
Roland
Good. I'm surprised that the gas detector doesn't work in an RV. I did mean to imply you were taking it lightly, some of the other posts seemed to be. You can disconnect the gas line from the tank or at the regulator and connect a pressure gauge and a schreader valve to it and pressurize the lines to some pressure and see if it holds pressure for 24 hrs. When I built my shop the gas line had to be pressurized to 50 psi (if I rmember correctly) and hold for 24 hrs. The actual gas pressure in your lines past the regulator is much less. If it doesn't hold pressure then you have to start hunting. A higher pressure air charge might show bubbles better than a low pressure gas leak.
Hope you find it.
I think I will go replace regulator first. I sprayed the vent with soap but did not see anything. Regulator is easier then depleting all of my propane to replace the valve.
Ooooops just reread my last post. The leak detector should work fine in the rig. Is the folks that were installing the tank that don't work on RV's because of a liability issue. Sorry about the confusion.
Roland
I just replace the regulator on my couch about a week ago All orders are gone regulator was about $35 at the local RV store
So, what does a regulator do on your couch? Sitting here, in a turkey induced near nap, I can just imagine. :sleepy:
Here is a link to a static pressure test fitting.
Amazon.com: Pasco 1427 30-Pound Gas Test Gauge Assembly: Home Improvement (http://www.amazon.com/Pasco-1427-30-Pound-Gauge-Assembly/dp/B000VYJVWI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1448582970&sr=8-2&keywords=gas+pressure+test+kit)
Roger,
My turkey induced stupor-- can't figure out how/where to use it.
0-30 PSI is way too low for tank pressure unless in significantly sub-zero temperatures and way too high for post-regulator pressure (11" column water). 11" column water is under 1/2 PSI!
Gauge that the tank installers used was 0 35" water column. That is what I purchased. My son that works with propane told me I would have been better off with a hygrometer. Was going to search for the leak today but need a fitting. There's always mananña.
Roland
As I understand it the manometers are measuring differential pressure. Say from one side of the regulator to the other or to measure the pressure going into an appliance. The fitting I posted is used to just pressurize your LP plumbing up to 30 psi for example and then let it sit there for 24 hrs to see of there is any pressure loss. There should not be if all the fittings, valves, pipe and other components are free from leaks. That is how the gas plumbing in a new house is tested. Water plumbing too. An air leak is much better than gas or water.
Roger,
Yes, that would be a good test. 30 PSI would certainly show a leak a LOT faster than at less than 1/2 PSI!
OK I have started tracing the leak (leaks) with my new leak detector good to 50 ppm and found a T fitting that was leaking that could not be verified with the bubble method. I will be installing shutoff valves on all the supply lines to make it easier to trouble shoot once I get past the tank compartment.
Roland
Good job finding a leak. I hope it is the only one. Probably a flared T fitting. Some tightening may be possible and then a recheck. A manifold after the regulator with valves is common in homes. The fewer number of joints the less chance for leaks. I like the teflon pipe joint goo that you brush on to the threads for threaded joints. I have had better long term results with the pipe goo than with the tape.
Added some shutoffs (4) and two T. Have one teeny leak will take care of that tomorrow.
Roland
Me too, as an irrigation contractor for thirty years, pipe dope gets it!
And, the "pipe dope" I have used over the years is Rectorseal#5: No. 5(R) Product Datasheet (http://ows.rectorseal.com/product-data/rectorseal-no-5/dsno5.htm)
If others have "favorites", would like to know.
Nice work Roland. I've thought about doing the same. I'm guessing about $100 in parts??
I notice no shutoff on the bottom line. Did you figure out what it's used for & why no shutoff?
The top line has a tee with shutoff going to a rubber hose. Since it located past the regulator I'm guessing it's not for a grill or gas firepit??
see ya
ken
Shutoffs were under three dollars each on E-bay...payed more for shipping.
I had about a hundred dollars in fittings.
Bottom line is for the front furnace that I have removed ergo no shutoff there. going to terminate somewhere downstream.
Top line T is for the Blue flame heater.
The line with the Second line from the top with the valve shutoff is the mysterious line.
My total cost for the propane leak detection and repair was just under $500. However I ended up with a quality Ridgid flaring tool, a spring manometer for low pressure and a gas sniffer. I prefer buying tools than paying a plumber or RV serviceman that may or may not fix the problem.
Roland
Ken and Roland, regarding the rubber line and being after the regulator, I have a valve for a BBQ extension hose and just took off the reg on the unit and it works fine so does not have 2 which would decrease the volume of gas some.
JohnH
Well today was tomorrow. Finally found and resolved the last leak. Was on one of my "new" fittings. Could not have found it without the sniffer. We are now ready to head to Arizona.
Roland
Dang the saga continues. I left a spring manometer connected to propane plumbing. When I began this ordeal I found that the propane pressure was a 8.5 inch water column, should be between 10 and 11 inch water column. So I adjusted the regulator to 10.5 inches. The other day I looked and the pressure was above 15 inch water column. Readjusted and ordered a new regulator, well I actually ordered two just in case. The fun never stops.
Roland
Look at it this way, Roland: If you ever run low on coach bucks, you know enough now to go into the leak detection business at campgrounds! ^.^d
Part of the problem with working on twenty plus year old coach plumbing is that it is easy to disturb the status quo. You touch one thing and disturb something else. I had a line that was leaking behind the refrigerator. I took that line out and fabricated a new piece. When I put everything back together the tiny leak was now a bigger leak somewhere else. Went back there with my sniffer and found two additional leaks. One by 12V propane solenoid and one a the pressure test port. Pressure test port is obsolete so I either have to fix it or plumb around it and I have to find a replacement for the solenoid. Those leaks are bad enough that I am running the Dometic on electric have the propane to the Dometic shutoff.....in two places. AND the fun continues.Good thing as I didn't have much else to work on....Not. Fun and games out here in the Arizona desert.
Roland
I have to agree with Roland. With a coach this old I have become even more convinced that "If it ain't broke don't fix it and if it is broke you can't hurt it". I have always been a "Be Prepared" boy scout type person. Preventative maintenance has been my motto but with an old coach, similar to a 130 YEAR OLD house I had in the past, I learned to leave well enough alone. Many times when you fix one thing any movement seems to break something else so only fix what you have to.
"Preventative maintenance has been my motto but with an old coach, similar to a 130 YEAR OLD house I had in the past, I learned to leave well enough alone." Kent, I'm going to forward this sentence to our son. He, his wife and son just moved into a house built in 1831.
Anticipating problems is generally a good idea, but even better is to anticipate what might break while trying to head off the original problem. If anyone has figured that out, I'm sure that there are lots of us who would like to consult you before we tackle the next project.
Spent some time behind the fridge after the Pats beat the Titans. The major leaks that I discovered were on the 12V solenoid and the pressure test point assy. Pipe dope took care of the leaks on the pressure test point assy. The 12V propane shutoff valve was another matter however. I believe this thing has been leaking for awhile off and on. I took it apart and it looked to me as though there was an O-ring missing. Not sure, but I had one that fit and there was no more leaking after I reassembled. And it works!
On a side note I purchased a propane leak detector for a bit over a hundred dollars before I started chasing what I believed was one leak. That tool has paid for itself many times over. The soap trick just did not reveal most of the leaks I found.
Roland
@Roland,
If you are coming to Q this year I'll help you recoup some of you money by renting your sniffer for a day. :)
see ya
ken
We still plan on getting to Q the week before the show. You're welcome to use the sniffer. Gratis.
Roland
During this process I have permanently installed a spring manometer, it makes it real easy to determine if any propane line is leaking and the shutoffs I installed make it simple to identify which line is leading.
Roland
Roland, I have always considered a good and capable tool an investment in the future and like you have found they pay for themselves quickly. It has been interesting to follow your leak hunt.
A little more on that darn shutoff valve. Was going to turn the fridge on propane but thought I'd check that solenoid one more time. Well it still be leaking some. So we still be running the Honda for a while longer for the fridge. As I was poking around back there I noticed that I had a couple charred 12 VDC wires. I attributed that to overcurrent, not so. Had my DW put the fridge on propane while I watched. Nice little fire all around the solenoid. Went off quickly enough but sure gave me a scare. Have no idea why this rig is not in ashes. Naturally the original part is now obsolete. Spoke with a prats guy at PPL and he was going to check with Dometic to see if the part was available but I have not heard back from him. In the meantime I ordered a solenoid from Amazon, will see if that will work if not will return and try something else or call PPL again.
On a side note I had my son get me a "real" regulator to replace the Camco that seemed a bit erratic. Installed that today Seems to be working better. Also had my son get me the same pipe dope he uses, stuff works well. It is "Gasoila" with PTFE you can get it on Amazon. After installing the regulator I redid all the fittings on the manifold using this new to me pipe dope. Once done I slowly turned the propane on until I had 9.5 inch water column pressure. The solenoid for the fridge was the only thing that was isolated. The pressure held with no decrease at all while I put all my tools away and cleaned up. As soon as I turned the shutoff for the fridge on, down went the pressure in the line, not fast but a steady decrease nevertheless. If the regulator from Amazon works (has enough flow for the fridge) I will get the part number to Barry. Understand through all this neither we nor anyone who has been around our coach has ever smelled propane AND I could not detect the leaks with bubble solution. Scary stuff.
Roland
Roland
Glad you are getting things taken care of before a fire!!! Great job.
I too would like to use your sniffer to check my system and since you don't want any rent, maybe we can partake of some Bourbon tasting again at Q. See you and Carmen there.
^.^d
OK, today I removed the propane shutoff solenoid to see if I can stop it from leaking at least temporarily. After taking the thing apart I cleaned out the seat area with Brasso. Wasn't much I could do about the neoprene or rubber seat itself but I did clean it off as well as I could. Put everything back together and did another pressure test. Set the manometer to 9 1/2 inches of water and the pressure held for the required three minutes. AND was still holding after five minutes. I consider the leak fixed BUT I will be replacing that solenoid as soon as I can get my hands on a replacement. You can also rest assured that I will be keeping a close eye on the solenoid also. through this ordeal we have been running the fridge on electricity via our Honda inverter generator as we are boodocking. We have been shutting everything down when we both leave the campsite and when we retire for the night. Will now run on propane but will continue the shutdown practice until I replace the solenoid. Oh and I cant detect a leak with the leak detector.
Roland
Received a new marine solenoid and was about to install it when I thought I would try to determine how much current the old solenoid drew as there was quite a large physical size difference. Yeah I know should have done that before I bought the new solenoid. Could not determine the wattage of the old solenoid by the faded markings. The coil measures about 50 ohms, so the relay draws about 250ma.. The new relay is marked 750ma. I don't know if the dinosaur board will will handle the additional current ( 750ma vs 250ma) . As I had the old solenoid in hand decided to take it apart again and spend some time polishing the brass seat with Brasso. When I put everything back together the old solenoid continued to hold pressure for as long as I prolonged the test, about an hour before I gave it my blessing. However I still feel uncomfortable with that old solenoid in line. So will call Dinosaur Monday and ask if the board will handle 750 ma draw. If it does I will swap them out and keep the old as a spare, if not then back to looking for a suitable alternative.
Roland