We are looking to purchase our first FT. I am looking in the 1996 to 2003 year range and would prefer a 40' U320. Although not a requirement, a slide is preferred so that moves the year up to at least 2000. Is NADA RV a reasonable sight to check prices on? Most of the FT's are priced higher than average retail, especially the non slide coaches. Is there a better site to use for price determination? Thank you
While everyone understands that the coaches come with a long list of std equipement the banks want the long list in the nada book added to both the wholesale and retail values in the guide.
Easily plus $15k. Then the condition comes into play. Then how much you like it......
Jokingly in the Rv biz we used to ask how much it weighed? No reference to the quality or value.
Garaged coaches that have "eyeball" are more valuable to most.
A Foretravel is so different from other motorhomes that it is difficult to find a generic site showing what you are looking for.
Foretravel of Texas, Motorhomes of Texas can help and usually have coaches to sell. You can also buy from an individual owner, your best bet with that would be from a forum member. We try to share our knowledge and experience with each other to help us keep our great machines running great.
The bottom line, what is a fair price for YOUR used Foretravel? Whatever you are willing to pay for it- both in cost of acquiring the coach then in upgrades, repairs, changes, etc that will make it your own. Best of luck finding YOUR coach.
By the way, check out the classified section- there are some nice coaches that you might be interested in.
First welcome to the forum.
An answer as to value, is you can not count on NADA to give a fair value of a Foretravel. Too few have been built, and the NADA just uses a formula to depreciate them. I have paid and sold my first Foretravel, for 3X the book value. I think that I paid 2X for the one we have now, and I would pay that again, today, some 2.5 years later.
You are going to get some many responses, and you can also search this topic, as it comes up several times a year.
The best is do your research, find the model, size, options and upgrades that are important to you. Then when you can grab the coach of your dreams that you find, before someone else grabs it first. And plan to do the minor upgrades that you want, as the foundation being a Foretravel you will find is a really good choice.
Welcome, Ed. Do your research to find the best floor plan for YOU. Barry's site has all of them to look at. Once you have settled on a floor plan (or two) you can start searching for the right coach. Motorhomes of Texas and Foretravel of Texas both have a decent selection of coaches and good turnover, so if they don't have what you want today just keep checking - it might show up tomorrow. Of course, the Classifieds here are also a good source.
As for NADA, there are lots of threads here about that. If you have the time, start watching for coaches that might be close to what you want and see what they are listed for. Over a few months you will get a pretty good feel for what they ought to be listed for. Remember that the actual value of a thing is what a willing buyer is willing to pay for it and what a willing seller is willing to let it go for. That number probably won't match the asking price.
One other thing. If you find a coach that seems just right, but is priced higher than you want to go, make an offer that isn't an insult to the seller. If you can justify the offer there is a decent chance that it will be accepted, or at least countered. If the seller says "NO!" you are no worse than if you hadn't made the offer, and the seller just might say "YES!"
Ask lots of questions here. We've all been in your shoes before and those who went before us answered our questions.
Ed
Best places to start are the web sites of Motorhomes of Texas and Foretravel of Texas. PPL has some sold Foretravels from time to time. NADA is useless for valuation.
Welcome to the forum
Welcome!
I must suggest that you consider a '95,too. The production numbers were strong and they still seem to be running well across the Forum. While we've been in Nacogdoches these trips, I asked most of the Nac Guys, "What FT would you buy?"
The common answer is a non-slide '95-01. Cummins. (I didn't ask sales guys, but I will. I never met one in a year of wandering around in this little town!) I prodded all the service guys and got some great info regarding not only the Heydays, but the "tough years" at FT. "Old glue meant something", is my takeaway. Things must have really clicked in the late 90's around here.
I just dropped two plus coachbucks before Christmas at Xtreme and I'm thrilled with the improvements. Pros.
Interview everyone that gets glowing reports on this forum at Xtreme, FOT and MOT. Talk to Bernd and get some real opinions! I love these coaches and the support teams! Let me leave you w/ "NADA NEVER BOUGHT A COACH"
Let's hear from you! Best, P
James Triana at GV in Seiverville when asked what used FT he would buy, he didn't wait a second before he said 2001 single slide 42' U-320 with a tag axle
Love my slide, loved my non-slide. Just don't let DW see a FT with the slide out, hard sell for non slide at that point, damage already done....
I have not encountered any Foretravel that I did not like. 90 or 95 or 2006 .... Slide no slide .... Ohhhh I don't like the new ones because I can not afford it ... yet .... When I can then I will like them too :-)
Kathleen witnessed an '06 FT parked close to us with serious issues that the owner may not have caused. The bill to repair these slide issues could cost the owner the price of my great, old coach. Then, that guy has a repaired '06 in good shape.
We'll talk! You know the '95 is the 911S. '67
Thank you all for the responses. There are not too many FT's on the market. We have a 26' Born Free motorcoach now and there were not too many of them on the market when I was looking. I did visit Nacogdoches last month and went to FOT and MOT. I wish I had known about Bernd and Xtreme before I went down there so I could have visited them.
I did go through the thread on "How Many Miles on your coach" last night and that was encouraging.
I have talked to several owners in addition to looking at the used coaches at FOT and MOT. The slide units seem to list for about 30% more than the non-slides. There is a non-slide 2000 advertised in Vancouver, BC (RVTRader) that looks nice with only 51K miles. A 2000 U320 slide with 62K miles in California that also looks nice but the price seems high. On the other extreme, there is a 1995 U320SE advertised on Craigslist in St Louis for just under $35K or a 2000 U320 slide with 288K miles in Oregon. Does anyone have comments on these coaches with regard to history or asking price?
Do the GV's get better fuel economy than a U320 because of better aerodynamics (or maybe just because of a smaller engine)?
Thank you, Ed W
After you've done your research (I looked and learned for six months) and find a coach that is right for you, but seems high $ (as ours was), check for any paperwork that the PO(s) have on board. Previous service and upgrades are well worth some serious coach bucks!
Buy what you like, fuel @ 12,000 miles a year @ 6 - 8 mpg, savings are negligible Slide coaches in general sell faster, and in a narrower trading range Low use is at least as harmful as high use. Stuff breaks when sitting. A regularly used coach that was regularly maintained will serve you well Big tickets
Cosmetics
Tired
Batteries
Refrigerator
Fuel lines
Aid bags
Have a good inspection done by someone who knows FT. Check rear bulkhead condition and any signs of leakage and water damage Buy and enjoy.
Reserve 10-15 % of purchase price for any first year surprises Nada does not adjust for mileage on any diesel RV. Should tell you something
I did drive a 1998 U320 that MOT had just taken in on consignment. It had full body paint and some updating inside with 111K miles. The coach was very nice in appearance (headlight and step conversions). That was the only FT I have driven and the engine idle seemed a bit rough along with rust on the edges of the Joey bed (the storage areas were wet in there also. The current moisture was possibly from a freezer in the storage bin, but not the rust). I did not have the time to stay there and get that figured out. The coach had Oklahoma plates on it. My wife did like that one but both of us were uncertain to the value (asking $72,500).
Is anyone familiar with this coach?
Thank you,
[quote author=Tim Fiedler link=msg=218124 date=1449167764 Low use is at least as harmful as high use. Reserve 10-15 % of purchase price for any first year surprises Nada does not adjust for mileage on any diesel RV. Should tell you something[/quote]
I used to inspect Airstreams for would-be buyers, and in every single inspection (unless there was copious paperwork), I'd tell them to have at least $10,000 or 10 Coach Bucks at the ready. Hi-miles and paperwork get it for me.
Seems high price wise, but market is strong
Not familiar with the coach but my m11 idled a bit roughly.
Needed the valves adjusted, injectors set, fuel lines replaced, fuel filter upgraded, cam position sensor replaced(cheap), and the intake manifold pressurw sensor upgraded(also cheap)
Except for Country Coach. :'(
Maybe I just need to be patient and wait. Until I retire in about 3 years I will only be able to use it on weekends anyway. Will the market get stronger or weaker? Only God knows.
We did the same thing when I was still working, but got to know the coach and do whatever was needed. When I retired, we hit it with problems zero, 'cause we were prepared. b^.^d
Ed,
"Best way to determine a fair price for a used FT" Stories ... does it have a story , can it tell its own stories, can you meet with its owner and can he/she tell you its stories ... stories told here on the form ... That is how you can determine. Go out and meet with FT owners ... Almost everyone will show you their FT, tell you their stories, take you for a ride ... come on down to TX I'll be happy to show you two of them. I read stories here for 3 years before i purchased my first one.
Good luck, you are in great company.
Life is short.....
"And miles to go before we sleep". ^.^d
We also did the same thing, and enjoyed having our coaches to use when ever we could, hoping some day to travel move. We fixed, upgraded and toyed with things as we could. Long projects, short ones, did not mater when they might be completed. Lots of fun without a rushed schedule. Then as some of you know, we got some very poor medical news, that took all our attentions away for 8 months. We were able to only occasionally get to the coach or out of town. When we could we escaped, to enjoy all we can, as long as we can. Things change, so have fun.
Ed, if the right coach comes along, don't put off buying it for "sensible" reasons...Dave & Dolly are right....and none of us are promised tomorrow...life should be lived and life in a Foretravel is better all the way around.
Must haves for us was. Cummins engine, 10 kW generator, 36 foot (1st MH, didn't want too much length), walk through bath, Grand Villa with all wood (including side walls), large storage bays.
A green one came along (DWs fav color) and we pulled the trigger. I don't know what else I could ask for.
Ps. Mileage didn't matter much about miles, all HEAVY DUTY components in these coaches.
INMHO
Hi Ed,
Lots of good ideas here from other members.
The more research you do and the more knowledgable you become all add up to having a better idea what typical coach prices are for what you are looking at. NADA is not a reliable means to value a Foretravel, comparison to other similar coaches willmgive you a good starting point. There are many differences from one year to the next that are not always visible to the casual shopper. For example, double pane windows becme standard in 1997. In the U320s the M11 engines changed to ISM 450 in 2000. The dash configuration and the ducted AC in the ceiling changed in 2001. Exterior graphics changed from decals to paint in 2001. Slide mechanisms changed in 2002. End caps changed in 2002. Lots of the chassis features stayed the same over this period. Fuel filters changed in 2001-2002. The aux air compressor for the HWH systems changed in 2002.
The point is that you don't see many of these things until you really start looking carefully.
Lots of folks mention floor plans. Most things are changable. New fabrics for example are easy to to. Changing the floor plan is very difficult. And just looking at floor plan diagrams won't give you a very good feeling for how soace is used. A little more space in the bathroom, even a foot or so can make a big difference. So you need to go actually look at coaches. Sit in a dinette booth. How does it feel? Never know that looking at floor plan diagrams.
Three years until you you retire? Take as much time as you need to learn and ahop. Get your finances ready to go. Have a good budget idea in mind with reserves. Be prepared to go anywhere in the country to get the coach you want. Make a good faith offer. If it is less than the seller wants explain how you came up with your price. FT sellers are pretty smart too and most will respect your knowledge and consider your offer carefully.
Buying a coach before you retire is a good thing. So many things change when you retire that throwing in a big bucks, major lifestyle choice is a lot to add. When we bought out coach we had more than 35 years of RV experience but none whith this coach. We spent at least a year doing short trips, close to home learning how everything works, building experience, building confidence.
When you are through the retirement change you will be ready to move on into another adventure.
So research, learn, ask questions, go looking, talk to other ownersand be ready when your coach is ready for you.
The Forum is a great place to start. Welcome. We are here to help as much as you want.
Oh, and lots of folks will agree with James T's 2001 U320 choice. Our 36' is perfect for us but for a bigger coach, the 42' tag is hard to beat.
While driving to look at a 98 Monaco Signature with 60K miles we got a call from our current coaches owners and they excepted
our offer.We went to see the monaco anyway and I am glad we did.The build quality is much better on the Foretravel,the
Monaco still has hyd jacks,step was shaky,only one side to fuel.
My point is if there is no foretravel nearby to look at go look at other brands just to see how much better a fore travel is,when
you finally get to look at a fore travel you will definitely see the difference.
After you do your research and figure a budget (+ coach bucks) , you'll look at THE coach and say, "it's ours". We did.
Our story is that I wanted a coach that we can upgrade and repair and keep forever ( as long as we are on the road). I did my research and Foretravel kept coming up to the top. I talked with a number of Foretravel owners in person and then after a great tour of a fine Foretravel at Escapees Rainbow End in Livingston , Tx- we decided to go to MOT ( referral from a Foretravel owner) to look at some. Karen said " we are not buying a coach because our Winnebago Adventurer is paid for!!!" We went through several coaches, toured this one, Karen sat down and said, " I'm not leaving." Then we made the deal- 8 years ago- living full time in the coach with no end in sight.
Have fun with the process- you will know.
We established what we believed to be a fair price by simply researching a lot of ads online over a number of months and utilizing the excellent information here on Foreforums. We found the motorhome we wanted right here; we believed the price we paid was fair three years ago and we still believe that today. Thanks Foreforums!
Std answer for any vehicle value I have told countless customers:
Condition, condition, condition, model year, miles in that order on a diesel motorhome.
For sticks and bricks its "location, location, location" For an RV is "condition, condition, condition"...
I am just getting started looking myself with a goal of buying in about 2 years.
I have a spreadsheet that was up to date about a month ago that covered every posting I could find over the previous couple of months on the interwebs - there were over 60 of them. The spreadsheet also shows the NADA dealer trade-in prices. The first thing that emerges is that NADA uses a very simple formula for their pricing. The second thing that emerges is that the basis in reality for NADA prices diminishes the further you get from this year's model. NADA *vastly* understates the value of older Foretravel motorhomes. It would benefit me GREATLY if that were not the case, but then people who buy Foretravels do so for some very good reasons.
I'm thinking I could keep up the spreadsheet and make an updated copy available here on the forum for the sake of people like you and me who are trying to figure out what we're getting ourselves into. But I decided it would not have the value I thought early on. The one thing my investigation has taught me - and it's borne out by all the comments you read here: The value of one of these beauties is entirely subjective. By that I mean, you cannot reduce a coach to a year, model, mileage. How much regular exercise it has had, how much expert care it has received over the years are the most important factors in price given two coaches with the same quantifiable data. These factors cannot be quantified any more than someone's preference for one floor plan over another, or whether to go with one model or another, whether to have slides or not, whether to go with a unihome or a unicoach. Each is bound to present a unique set of pluses and minuses which taken together will require more gut than most of us are comfortable relying on when it comes to spending our hard-earned money. Yes, of course you have to evaluate a coach as carefully as possibly and weigh all the factors of your own unique requirements. But when it comes to paying for it, I'm afraid that is a personal decision that only you can make. For one person with lots of cash to spare and not much time or inclination to dig deep into the nuts and bolts of a motorhome, a turnkey situation may be worth paying for. For another person who may not have the cash or whose values may not justify spending it, but who is interested in learning and expects to invest "sweat equity", the turnkey coach is not a good or not a viable option. For someone like me who plans to full-time in a coach, and would like to preserve as much retirement money as possible, the prospect of having to rely on and pay for shops for everything is a grim prospect, so it follows that I will be down in the weeds doing as much for myself as possible and while I may not love every minute of it, there is some satisfaction in mastering the things that make one's little world go around. So in preparation for finding my Foretravel I am looking at as many as I can find, learning about what makes them tick and hoping when the time comes that I am able to borrow as much expert judgement as possible in making my purchase. After that the forum will provide - there is already such a body of knowledge and experience here to go with the live contributors and the professional support ecosystem in Nacogdoches (where I am right now!). I can no longer imagine considering another brand of motorhome. THAT much I KNOW. The rest will work itself out over time. In a nutshell, use your own best judgement, then "Trust the force."
The Force will be with you when the time comes. We looked for about three years before we were ready to zero in on a few. Looking at many is a good start. You will start seeing the differences fairly soon as you get to know what you are looking at. Condition is important, it will tell you a lot about how well the coach was cared for. A really clean coach usually means the owner has been paying attention to detail. Service records tell a good story as well. Older tires need to be replaced. Older air bags and fuel lines age out. Rubber hoses get old based on time and engine hours.
We learned about most of this as we looked. We thought about how the coach looked to us, how did it feel, what did it smell like, did everything work? We looked at some at dealers and when the dealer had no idea what he was selling it was a bit worrisome. So each coach at some price with all good points and bad points fits somewhere on the shopping value vs price grid. There is going to be an area on that grid that represents what you want to pay and where on the quality scale you are comfortable.
There will be coaches in that sweet spot. If you are handy and can fix things that needs fixing then that opens up a few more coaches. If you are handy and willing to put your sweat equity into improvements and upgrades then you save some money after the purchase.
All I know is that the more knowledgable you are the better buyer you will be. The differences are in details. Figure them out. Almost everyone on the Forum will be happy to tell you all about their coach if you ask them (in a PM). Many will send photos.
And ask questions. We are here to help and will be almost as excited for you when you get a FT as you will be.
"I can no longer imagine considering another brand of motorhome. " Now you know ^.^d ... rest is entertainment .. enjoy the journey
Mr. Geezer -
I am not much of a mechanic and do not really enjoy twisting wrenches but do so because we do not have deep pockets and do get satisfaction when the job is done. In the 3 years that we have had our Ol Girl I have twisted a bunch of wrenches and done a bunch of repairs and upgrades - with the help of FoFum members. I can't say that I have looked forward to them and most times the JOB has scared the S... out of me, but they have all been completed. Most times quite well.
We bought our Ol Girl thinking she was in great shape but soon found out that she needed some help. Our saving grace was that we acquired her well under market and after 3 years we are still under market value based on the initial cost and the $$$ we have spent on repairs and upgrades.
When we were looking at DPs I also made a spread sheet, many spread sheets. What it did was to give me ranges and more importantly familiarity with the products.
Rest assured that when the right one comes along you will know, and if the stars are in alignment and the wind is blowing in the right direct you will become an owner.
It's a good thing.
Good Luck, :D :D
Ed,
Just a couple of points, because the Forum members have done a good job of responding to your primary question about establishing price.
- In your initial post, I think you said you'd prefer a slide, but also pegged 2000 as the first year slides were offered. As our signature block on this post shows, we have a 1999 with a single slide. I've heard different numbers, but 13 was what I was told re: first year FT slides, made in 1999. Not surprising, however, disagreement or confusion exists, because on Barry's site showing specs and floorplans, 2000 is the first evidence of our floorplan.
- You mentioned rough idle on an M11 you test drove. I was concerned about that, too, when I first test drove the coach we purchased. After putting a couple of thousand miles on the coach, that smoothed out nicely. I'm not the mechanic that many on the Forum are, so the opinion that follows is pure conjecture. But as you will have seen in the thread you also mentioned re: mileage, use is better than disuse. Until something breaks or convinces me differently, I attribute the roughness to simply not having been driven enough.
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Finally, as others have said, welcome to the Forum! This is a great group, as are other Foretravel owners not on the Forum, but whom you'll meet at rallies. Go, meet some folks, look at their coaches, and ask questions. We did that before we bought and people couldn't have been more welcoming or helpful. Best wishes for a coach you'll love as much as we do ours.
Looks like you are sailing in fair wind and following seas. Congrats. I think you got a good one. Have been watching your coach evolve for the last three years. You are fortunate that your PO knew what he was doing and did it right. ;D
Big congratulations!