I came across a Unloaded Vehicle Weight for a 2001 Foretravel 40' with one slide of 30915 lb and a GVWR of 34880 lb, leaving only about 2600 lb after water,LP, and 2 people on board. 2600 lb is not much carrying weight. Does anyone know what the UVW weight is without the slide? I have looked at a few articles in the archives and did not find what I was looking for.
I saw one post suggesting larger tires on a 2002 Foretravel to increase the capacity. Does anyone know if larger tires can be put on a 2000 or 2001 without messing up the antilock brakes?
From some of the archive comments it seems like full timing in the Foretravel will require more than 2600 lb of stuff.
Thank you for helping,
I wonder if they meant tires with a higher load rating rather than physically larger? I would think the tire diameters are pretty restricted since they match gear ratios and speedometers as well?
My understanding is that tires can't increase the GVWR because the maximum is determined by axle, brake, drive train, and frame ratings. Tires that are rated lower that the GAWR could lower the capacity. Tires rated higher that GAWR will not increase the capacity of the axle.
Tires of the same size can have different load ratings. Most of the FT coaches I have seen use either load range G or load range H. Which range is appropriate depends on the coach. Tables from tire companies will show the capacities of the tires.
It is good practice to measure the weights and compare them to ratings. Don't exceed the ratings. Getting axle weight is cheap and easy at a site (usually a truck stop) that has scales. Weighing individual tire positions is even better. It will indicate load on each tire.
Ed, I do not know exactly what the coach is like that you are viewing, but based on ours with one slide, the max weight is the 34,880. Note that the difference in weights between loaded and fully loaded can vary some depending on certain original owner specified layouts, and such as does it have tile or not. Our does and we have the WTFE design.
Weight on ourTexas registration is listed at 29,240 lbs.
As for the tire size, you can lower the air pressure in the tire a bit by going up to the 295 tires from the 275s but I am guessing will rub the from air bag metal base just a little more. It does already a tiny bit when you turn the wheel hard (as in creeping around a sharp corner). As someone said, it does not change anything about the weight allowed.
You can send me a pm with phone number if want to talk.
Ours, fully loaded, stays about 1,000 - 1,300 lbs under that max. (fully loaded for us is two adults, full fuel, 1/3 tank fresh water)
Mike
Someone here (I believe John S) has stated that the 40ft U320 models with a slide and without a tag axle are typically overloaded. That may be why the later models included the tag axle.
The GVWR is typically well matched to the original tires and so going to a larger size would typically not increase the GVWR. I do like the idea of upgrading to a Load Range H tire if a coach currently has LR G tires as it does provide an extra margin and (at least with Michelin tires) allows operating at slightly lower pressures.
My coach is non tag, single slide 40' u-320 and has been weighed with full water and stuffed to the gills in all bays and cabinets. Still had 1,300 lbs of capacity in the coach.
YMMV
Thank you for all the quick input. It does not sound like 295s are the way to go. I also need to determine how much solar panels weigh. If I have 4 to 6 panels installed that will cut into my CCC a fair amount also. In the archive someone had suggested traveling with no more than half a tank of water which helps.
I think I have about two weeks to figure this out or wait for 3 years (retirement and full time use) to buy a Foretravel. I am driving my wife nuts with searching.
I have a friend in California looking at the 2000 U320 in Ukiah this week. We like the pictures and was concerned just about the price (spending so much), but now I am concerned about the CCC also. I did see Tim's comment about his fully loaded weight so it might be possible. I do plan on carrying a fair amount of tools with me in retirement.
You all have a good day and soak in the splendor of the meaning of the Christmas season.
Thank you
We just had our 36' U320, 2001 single slide weighed at the GrandVention. Full fuel, full water, 2 people and our normal stuff we were just under 33,000. Water and fuel alone are about 2000 lbs. I wouldn't trust the 30,915 empty weight. Somlike Mike we have about 1000-1500 lb left for shopping opportunities. Actual empty weight seems to be an elusive number. I have heard that slides add about 1500 - 1700 lbs. No confirmation of that number.
Not sure about that. The engine/trans combo in a u295 weighs much less than the what is in a u320. Given the same year/length/slides/non-tag, both will be on the same frame with the same axles...
Some (perhaps many) people prefer traveling with no more than a half tank of water and that's fine. However, we prefer to leave home with a full tank, which offers (at a minimum) the advantage of using "our" water rather than from some other unknown source as well as having plenty on board should we need to stop in some unexpected place. I wouldn't want to have such limited carrying capacity that I felt required to travel with less than a full water tank.
I'm also curious about the "two weeks" requirement. What would keep you from taking your time and shopping at a leisurely pace and buying the "right one" when it comes along?
With regard to the two weeks, self imposed limit. I do not really need the FT until I retire. I get too obsessive when searching, so searching at a leisurely pace does not seem to work for me. But none the less, if I do not buy one now, there is no real reason I have to wait 3 years to resume my search (one might come across my path without me searching).
Thank you, Ed
There are so many customizations/options/etc. in a Foretravel that it will be difficult to nail down UVW/net CCC that applies generally across a year/model. As Mark pointed out, on the same chassis you will have different drivetrains which have vastly different weights. Tile vs. carpet is significant for weight differences. It's not like the mass-market/high volume RVs produced by Tiffin/WGO/Fleetwood/etc.
The best option will be to take the specific coach you're interested in (or have the owner do it) to (at minimum) a CAT scale and get axle weights. It's an easy, low cost way to know for sure. If you happen to be fortunate enough to be near an Escapees Rainbow park so equipped or where RVSEF is traveling at the time, you can get individual wheel weights (although it will cost $60 or so).
I switched to the load range "H" xza3's on my u320 non tag 40'
As was mentioned it allowed lowering the tire pressure 8-9 psi all the way around.
I have not researched the actual axle models and their load capacities but from the tires alone the reserve went from 500 pounds with full everything to 3-4,000 pounds I do not use.
As was mentioned the trade off is a tag axle coach with increased GCWR and a shorter primary wheelbase that allows tighter running versus the most storage available in a 40' motorhome to my best info.
No tag and no slides leaves a lower profile motorhome that is still very stable and as I mentioned massive storage inside and out.
For our uses we really did not need the 40' but after three years of use it has been little or no problem otter than the turning radius which you get used to.
I would personally not trade the storage available for a tag or slides. And have the height increase.
Would I like a tag and/or slide? Probably get used to it quickly but the storage losses would be a big trade off.
We bought our U320 when we had more than four years left before retirement. We are extremely glad we did, because in the more than three years since then we haven't yet seen another one we would rather have. Even though not yet retired, we have put over 14,000 miles on it in those three years and have really enjoyed all of them. For us, there is absolutely no better way to travel!
I strongly suggest you keep looking and build up a library of Foretravel information. I've copied (or referenced) a lot of information from Foreforums into my computer for quick reference. Another benefit of leisurely long-term shopping is that it will give you a really good idea of what you really want/need in a Foretravel, as well as a good database of asking and selling prices. That way, when you find "yours" it should be easy to make the decision.
We weighed a bunch of coaches and the single slide non tag was right at 20k on the rear it was a 21k axle though
It is not so much that the axle exceeds its GAWR it is that many states started passing 20,000 lb max axle load limits. That is one reason why tags are common on bigger coaches. Even on ours the rear axle is a 21,000 lb GAWR. We are under by almost 2,000 lb. Good to have a recent weigh tag if you are ever questioned.
I think in 2002 or 2003 there is a white placard below the manufacturers plate that shows the CCC. Mandated by law as I recall. Maybe some later model owners can look?
Thanks for the clarification.
This is clipped from a post by Gary on rvforum.net...
"The federal government has stepped in and issued regulations concerning weight labels in Cars and RVs. Previous RV weight labels were under the auspices of the RVIA and all their member companies used them while others did not. The new label, called the Occupant and Cargo Carrying Capacity label [OCCC] will supersede the previous RVIA label, i.e. the RVIA will no longer require its members to place the RVIA version of the label on each RV. The new label requirement requirement went into effect June 2, 2008.
The main effect is that OCCC replaces the RVIA CCC definition and that's important because OCCC is a much different number. The previous CCC was a net number, showing how much capacity was left for actual cargo after subtracting everything else that is normally carries, e.g. people, water and propane. The new OCCC combines people, water and cargo weight into one number, leaving it to the owner to compute how much he has of each on board. Propane, however, is NOT considered cargo and is included in added to the chassis UVW (Unladen vehicle Weight), which also includes fuel, oil and coolant.
The new OCCC label will show the maximum combined weight of occupants and cargo, the weight of a full tank of fresh water and the number of seating positions that have seat belts. For RV trailers, the word "occupants" and the information on seat belts are omitted from the label.
OCCC is computed as follows: OCCC = GVWR - (UVW + Propane)
Simply add the weight of a full load of propane (including the tanks, if portable tanks are used) to the Unladen Vehicle Weight (UVW) and subtract that number from the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR)
Regulations specify that the label must be permanently affixed and visibly located on the interior of the forward-most exterior passenger door on the RIGHT side of the vehicle. That should make the new label much easier to locate than the former RVIA label, which could be tucked away almost anywhere.
Another feature of the new regulation is a requirement that dealers must provide an updated weight label if they add more than 100 lbs to the factory weight between the time they receive the RV and its sale to the first retail customer. This assures the customer gets a useful OCCC number.
TIRES, AXLE GAWR and GVWR
The new regulation also stipulates that the tires must be capable of supporting the axle at full load, i.e. the sum of the tire carrying capacities on an axle must equal or exceed the axle GAWR. On a motorhome, the sum of the axle GAWRs must also equal or exceed the vehicle GVWR, but this is not true on an RV trailer. On an RV trailer the manufacturer may omit trailer tongue weight from the GVWR when making this calculation. Thus it is legal for the combined capacity of the axles on a RV trailer to be less than the GVWR, as long as it is not less than GVWR - tongue [hitch] weight.
There is an excellent summary and example of the new OCCC label for motorhomes on the Winnebago site:
http://www.winnebagoind.com/resources/service/pdfs/2009-02%20New%20Weight%20Label.pdf
For those who may be interested in how the OCCC compares to the previous CCC value and label, the RVIA defined CCC as the cargo (only) carrying capacity and it did not include occupants, water or propane. It was calculated like this:
CCC = GVWR - (UVW + Water + Propane + SCWR)
SCWR = # sleeping positions x 154 lbs [There must be a seat belt position for every designated sleeping position.]
The RVIA CCC was a much smaller number, but the rest of the RVIA label provided the estimated amount of each other item of weight as well."
IMPORTANT: You will also have to research axle and tire weight capacities. In the past, many coaches had axles rated for MORE than 20,000 pounds. But they were "derated" on the GVWR sticker because that was the Federal Bridge Limit.
The Federal Bridge Limit FOR RV'S was raised to 24,000 pounds a couple of years ago: New Highway Bill Exempts RVs from Axle Regs | RV Business (http://www.rvbusiness.com/2012/07/new-highway-bill-exempts-rvs-from-axle-regs/)
Ed,
First, don't stop researching. Understand obsessive. That seems to affect almost everything Susan & I do, when we get interested in something (or she might say, "Everything that her husband does").
Second, re: weight, we have a 1999 U320 40'. The data plate beside the driver's seat says 34,880 max GVWR, with 13,880 front axle and 21,000 rear. Like Roger, we had our coach weighed at the Foretravel GrandVention in October. We weighed with 1/2 fuel, full fresh water (which we always want to carry, for the reasons mentioned by D.J. Osborn), and empty black and gray.
- We were 12,775 on the front — 6,400 driver side, 6,375 passenger. Add the 1/2 tank of fuel we didn't have and we would have been at 13,475 (under 13,880 by 400 pounds).
- We were 20,525 at the rear — 10,125 driver and 10,400 passenger (under 21,000 by 475 pounds). We're fulltimers, so we're carrying pretty much everything you might need? And you'd still have 875 pounds margin for tools.
At Tim said, "your mileage may vary." But we were very pleased by the fact we were not only under GVWR, but also that our U320 is so well balanced, front-to-back; wheel-to-wheel. Seems to us that reflects good floorplan and systems design at the factory, as well as more than adequate carrying capacity for most of us.
Hope this is some help.
When we are on the move from point A to point B maybe two or three days apart we will vpcarry the water we need for that time. 100 gallons of water weighs more than 800 lbs. 30 gallons is plenty for us for three days. If we are going somewhere close to home we will take a full tank of water from home. If we are going boondocking or to somewhere where we know the water is iffy we will fill the fresh tank at a known good supply. We have a three step filter setup with a water softener so we can deal with most water. The water in Parker, AZ was the worst we have ever seen. Even after three filters, the water softener and the drinking water under the sink the water still tasted salty. Probably why they sold salt free water for $0.25 per gallon at the campground.
You can reduce your travel weight by 8-900 lbs by managing water and fuel levels. Might not seem like a lot but it all helps.
Roger,
Totally agree on managing water levels-- black, gray and potable.
But, running on the top half of the diesel tank as much better on the engine than letting it get below that. Diesel is used for cooling and lubricating in the fuel injection system and head. Next time you run below 1/4 tank, particularly in warm weather, reach in and feel the tank-- it will be HOT!
Thanks, Brett. Good point. I never go below 75 gallons, usually run between 90 and 120, good for a 350 mile day. If you get stuck somewhere due to weather you need a researve.
Wow! As a gas-only driver all I can say is "we aren't in Kansas anymore!" I had no idea that diesel would exit the tank only to return (if I interpret correctly?)
That is right, only a small potion of the fuel pumped out of the tank gets used, the rest gets warmed up and sent back to the tank. The generator and AH (pretty sure) do same.
Roger & Susan,
Great advice re: ferrying water — fresh, gray, or black. Clearly, you are MUCH better about controlling showers than we are. <smile> On our SeeLevel, we find a quick shower using the water pump depletes about 10% of the fresh tank. So, for two of us over three days, we'd need 60 gallons, if my math is right. For a nice, long shower . . . well, let's not even talk about that.
We have found our water pump pressure is about 60, whereas we keep our city water regulator set between 45-50. So, the pump pushes more water than when connected to city. I've checked to see if the pump is adjustable (although the more forceful showers are sure nice!). The answers I've gotten re: adjusting the pressure on the pump have been "no."
Hi Friends!
We spent more than 900 nights in our Class B over 33 years, about 21 ft long, about 53 sq ft of finished floor space, and most of that with the best dog in the world (reincarnated as Barney, I am sure) Our longest adventure was just short of a year. We used to say we could clean up with a tea pot of warm water and that we became comfortable with being dirty. (more than 35 years ago, post hippie period, just). Our FT is like a palace.
Wow, 10 gallons per shower. We call those "Hollywood" showers. I put in a hot water recirculator so that we don't run cold water down the drain waiting for hot. It works great! Turn on the water, get wet, water off, soap up, rinse off. At Oshkosh they have great facilities. Showers with seemingly endless how water but they get that by using kitchen sink sprayers intead of shower heads. Press for water. Amazing how little water you really need.
Most campgrounds have showers which we will use. Most of the time we do the Camp Walmart thing. When we are on the move we use paper bowls and plates to cut down on dishes. We also carry a 2 gallon plastic jug (from laundry detergent) that we can fill with water if we get low. We try not to get below 10% and not more than 40%. Start with gray and black tanks empty.
It probably doesn't make much difference but it is worth trying. And hope for a tail wind.