Foretravel Owners' Forum

Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: Ben and Bonnie on December 16, 2015, 06:42:56 pm

Title: Troubleshooting Red Check Engine Light and White Smoke
Post by: Ben and Bonnie on December 16, 2015, 06:42:56 pm
A friend of mine has a 2000 U320 with the 450HP Cummins engine.  On a trip home he had the yellow check engine light come on. When he was almost home, the red check engine light came on, and he had white smoke come out of the exhaust. He checked the engine codes and got what he thinks was 707. Does anyone have any idea what that code means. His fuel filters are clear.

Ben Harris
1999 U320
Title: Re: Troubleshooting Red Check Engine Light and White Smoke
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on December 16, 2015, 07:20:24 pm
Ben,
Things that can cause the white smoke:
Coolant internal leaking into combustion chamber, no lights usually
ECU Voltage low,  Yes a light
CAN Bus info incorrect due to crank & cam sensors out of time also low power.
  You bet lights
All this is a guess, a Cummins Dist. would be my choice, not Honest Bob's fix it garage.

Good luck
Dave M
Title: Re: Troubleshooting Red Check Engine Light and White Smoke
Post by: Michelle on December 16, 2015, 08:08:49 pm
He checked the engine codes and got what he thinks was 707. Does anyone have any idea what that code means.

Not seeing that code in my list (nor does the Google find it).
Title: Re: Troubleshooting Red Check Engine Light and White Smoke
Post by: John S on December 16, 2015, 09:35:46 pm
Red light skin s the stop engine light.  First thing I would check is the coolant level.  I don't have a 707 either
Title: Re: Troubleshooting Red Check Engine Light and White Smoke
Post by: John S on December 16, 2015, 09:39:42 pm
Here is a listing


Just scroll down the list for a discription of your specific fault code.

111 Electronic Control Module (ECM Microprocessor   
115 Engine Position Sensor   
121 Engine Position Sensor   
122 Intake Manifold Pressure Sensor Circuit   
123 Intake Manifold Pressure Sensor Circuit   
131 Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor Circuit   
132 Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor Circuit   
133 Remote Accelerator Pedal or Lever Position Sensor Circuit   
134 Remote Accelerator Pedal or Lever Position Sensor Circuit   
135 Engine Oil Pressure Sensor Circuit   
141 Engine Oil Pressure Sensor Circuit   
144 Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor Circuit   
145 Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor Circuit   
147 Frequency Throttle Control   
148 Frequency Throttle Control   
153 Intake Manifold Air Temperature Sensor Circuit   
154 Intake Manifold Air Temperature Sensor Circuit   
187 Sensor Supply Voltage   
198 ICON™ Lamp   
199 ICON™ Lamp   
212 Engine Oil Temperature Sensor Circuit   
213 Oil Temperature Sensor Circuit   
216 Wet Tank Pressure Sensor Circuit   
217 Wet Tank Pressure Sensor Circuit   
218 Wet Tank Pressure Sensor Circuit   
221 Ambient Air Pressure Sensor Circuit   
222 Ambient Air Pressure Sensor Circuit   
223 Burn Valve Solenoid Fault   
227 Sensor Supply Voltage   
234 Engine Overspeed   
235 Engine Coolant Level — Engine Protection   
237 Multiple Unit Synchronization (soft coupled Marine   
241 Vehicle Speed Sensor Circuit   
242 Vehicle Speed Sensor Circuit   
245 Engine Fan Clutch Supply Circuit   
249 Ambient Air Temperature Sensor Circuit   
254 Fuel Shutoff Solenoid Supply Circuit   
255 Fuel Shutoff Solenoid Supply Circuit   
256 Ambient Air Temperature Sensor Circuit   
285 SAE J1939 Data Link Multiplexing   
286 SAE J1939 Data Link Multiplexing   
293 OEM Temperature Sensor Circuit   
294 OEM Temperature Sensor Circuit   
295 Ambient Air Pressure Sensor   
297 OEM Pressure Sensor Circuit   
298 OEM Pressure Sensor Circuit   
311 Injector Circuit   
312 Injector Circuit   
313 Injector Circuit   
314 Injector Circuit   
315 Injector Circuit   
319 Real Time Clock Power Circuit   
321 Injector Circuit   
322 Injector Circuit   
323 Injector Circuit   
324 Injector Circuit   
325 Injector Circuit   
331 Injector Circuit   
332 Injector Circuit   
338 Ignition Bus Relay Circuit   
339 Ignition Bus Relay Circuit   
341 Unswitched Battery Supply Circuit   
343 Electronic Control Module (ECM   
349 Auxilliary Speed Governor Circuit   
352 Sensor Voltage Supply   
359 ICON™ Engine Auto Start Failure   
386 Sensor Voltage Supply   
387 Accelerator Pedal Voltage Supply   
388 Engine Brake Supply Circuit   
392 Engine Brake Supply Circuit   
419 Intake Manifold Pressure Sensor   
422 Coolant Level Sensor Circuit   
426 SAE J1939 Data Link Communication   
428 Water In Fuel (WIF Sensor Circuit   
429 Water In Fuel (WIF Sensor Circuit   
431 Idle Validation Switch Choice   
431iss Idle Validation Switch Circuit - Integrated Switch and Sensor Type   
431niss Idle Validation Switch Circuit - Non-Integrated Switch and Sensor Type   
431sss Idle Validation Switch Circuit - Solid State Switch and Sensor Type   
432 Accelerator Pedal Circuit   
433 Intake Manifold Pressure Sensor Circuit   
434 Unswitched Battery Supply Circuit   
435 Oil Pressure Sensor   
441 Unswitched Battery Supply Circuit   
442 Unswitched Battery Supply Circuit   
443 Accelerator Pedal Voltage Supply   
465 Wastegate Actuator No. 1 Circuit   
466 Wastegate Actuator No. 1 Circuit   
469 ICON™ Cab Thermostat Circuit   
472 Crankcase Oil Level Sensor Circuit   
474 Starter Solenoid Lockout Relay Driver Circuit   
475 Electronic Air Compressor Governor Circuit   
476 Electronic Air Compressor Governor Circuit   
489 Auxilliary Speed Input Error   
491 Wastegate Actuator No. 2 Circuit   
492 Wastegate Actuator No. 2 Circuit   
527 Switched Output A Error   
528 Switched Output B Error   
529 Switched Output C Error   
536 Autoshift Low Gear Actuator (Lockout Solenoid   
537 Autoshift High Gear Actuator (Lockout Solenoid   
538 Autoshift Neutral Actuator   
541 ICON™ Starter Relay Input Circuit   
544 Top 2 Transmission Circuit — Mechanical System Failure   
551 Idle Validation Switch Choice   
551iss Idle Validation Switch Circuit - Integrated Switch and Sensor Type   
551ivs Idle Validation Switch Circuit - Non-Integrated Switch and Sensor Type   
551sss Idle Validation Switch Circuit - Solid State Switch and Sensor Type   
581 Fuel Inlet Restriction Sensor Circuit   
582 Fuel Inlet Restriction Sensor Circuit   
583 Fuel Inlet Restriction Sensor Circuit   
588 ICON™ Starter Relay Input Circuit   
589 Engine Start Alarm Circuit   
596 Voltage Monitor — High Voltage   
597 Voltage Monitor — Low Voltage   
598 Battery Voltage Monitor — Very Low Voltage   
2291 Vehicle Speed Sensor Circuit   
Title: Re: Troubleshooting Red Check Engine Light and White Smoke
Post by: Ben and Bonnie on December 16, 2015, 09:44:40 pm
We have that list and did not see a 707 code either. I guess this might be a problem for Cummins.
Title: Re: Troubleshooting Red Check Engine Light and White Smoke
Post by: Ted & Karen on December 16, 2015, 10:02:24 pm
Remember your Cummins Power Club card- or sign up for 1 when you go in.  Gets 10% off your bill- pays for itself in 1 trip to Cummins.  Want to guess how I know?........................ ^.^d
Title: Re: Troubleshooting Red Check Engine Light and White Smoke
Post by: Dakota Slim on December 16, 2015, 10:25:53 pm
Water entering combustion spaces will create white smoke. Faulty head gaskets and cracked cylinder heads or blocks are a common cause of water entry, and are often to blame. Unfortunately, expensive mechanical repair if this is the cause.
Title: Re: Troubleshooting Red Check Engine Light and White Smoke
Post by: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart on December 17, 2015, 02:22:35 am
Not going to write off your Cummins just yet. Check fuel pressure. Filters can be clear and lift pump the problem. Can cause starvation and then possibly white smoke. Keep fingers crossed too.

White smoke from coolant in the combustion chamber usually dissipates/evaporates not too far from the exhaust. White smoke from fuel lingers for a while.

Most radiator shops can quickly check for products of combustion in the coolant. Coolant level would also be down.

Pierce
Title: Re: Troubleshooting Red Check Engine Light and White Smoke
Post by: TulsaTrent on December 17, 2015, 03:52:03 am
When I had a problem with the red STOP engine light, it turned out to be algae in the fuel. New fuel filters solved my problem.
 
Trent
Title: Re: Troubleshooting Red Check Engine Light and White Smoke
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on December 17, 2015, 09:20:06 am
It would help if more info was mentioned such as running smooth or rough, loss of power or not, and loss of coolant ?
Cummins recommends having their shop check it out.
Cummins does not list any 707 code for the ISM that I can find, few close have to do with my original post.
Title: Re: Troubleshooting Red Check Engine Light and White Smoke
Post by: redwing on December 17, 2015, 01:27:16 pm
I had The Yellow light come on one's and all it was , low coolant level. If the coolant level is below the sensor that is on the bottom of your overflow tank it will come on. Just fill and the problem is solved.
Rob
Title: Re: Troubleshooting Red Check Engine Light and White Smoke
Post by: turbojack on December 17, 2015, 06:22:18 pm
I had bought a 45KW diesel generator that had been on a Verizon cell site. Generator after 10 years only had 400 hrs on it.  When I got it home and started it, it blew out all kinds of white smoke. Turned out the engine was not getting enough fuel since the tank had jelled up. Once had new filters, cleaned out fuel lines and with good fuel the generator has run great since. 
Title: Re: Troubleshooting Red Check Engine Light and White Smoke
Post by: D.J. Osborn on December 17, 2015, 06:30:23 pm
I had bought a 45KW diesel generator that had been on a Verizon cell site. Generator after 10 years only had 400 hrs on it.  When I got it home and started it, it blew out all kinds of white smoke. Turned out the engine was not getting enough fuel since the tank had jelled up. Once had new filters, cleaned out fuel lines and with good fuel the generator has run great since. 

Curious minds want to know: What do you do with a 45 kW generator? It definitely would fit in the "whole house" category! What sort of fuel consumption does it have?
Title: Re: Troubleshooting Red Check Engine Light and White Smoke
Post by: Dave M (RIP) on December 17, 2015, 07:53:50 pm
Yes a 45 kW Is about average for a medium home, our range is from 20 thru 300 for homes.
For commercial, We  handle up thru 3.2 mw.  99% Cummins, rest are Kohler & Cat.
I always get a chuckle when homes are over 30,000 sq ft, seems to be a new fad going around along with costs getting over $20M.
Title: Re: Troubleshooting Red Check Engine Light and White Smoke
Post by: wolfe10 on December 17, 2015, 09:16:59 pm
Guys,

Let's get the discussion back on the OP's issue-- Troubleshooting Red Check Engine Light.....
Title: Re: Troubleshooting Red Check Engine Light and White Smoke
Post by: Mark D on December 18, 2015, 07:23:52 pm
You know you could do an old school check.  Stick your hand in front of the exhaust then smell what is on your hand.  Does it become wet with fuel or coolant?  Coolant should smell sweet... ish..  The fleetguard OAT coolant I use doesn't smell as sweet as the normal green coolant.  If it's coolant... it's pretty universally bad.  Fuel not necessarily as bad.  Plenty of other fine suggestions as well.
Title: Re: Troubleshooting Red Check Engine Light and White Smoke
Post by: Dakota Slim on December 18, 2015, 10:52:30 pm
I hope the fix for this problem is simple and inexpensive. The time to troubleshoot is as soon as a light comes on.
What was the engine temperature when the light(s) went on and how far was the coach driven after that point?
Title: Re: Troubleshooting Red Check Engine Light and White Smoke
Post by: craneman on December 20, 2015, 01:43:57 pm
Could you follow up if you find out what went wrong with this engine? It is the same as mine and the info would be helpful
Title: Re: Troubleshooting Red Check Engine Light and White Smoke
Post by: Ben and Bonnie on December 20, 2015, 06:28:02 pm
Thanks for all of the suggestions. I don't have all the information since this is a friends's coach and he is a good distance away from me. He is going to explore this problem more after Christmas. He did get the coach back to his home, he was less than 3 miles from his house when he got the red check engine light. I will let the forum know when he figures out what is wrong with the coach.

Ben Harris
1999 U320
Title: Re: Troubleshooting Red Check Engine Light and White Smoke Update
Post by: Ben and Bonnie on February 11, 2016, 01:50:13 pm
My friend has finally gotten his 2000 U320 coach back from Cummins. It ended up being the ECM. That part was $1,800 and then Cummins charged a bunch for labor because they went through the whole system to find the problem. Total bill was around $4,300. Ouch. But his coach is running great now. 

Ben Harris
1999 U320

Title: Re: Troubleshooting Red Check Engine Light and White Smoke
Post by: nitehawk on February 11, 2016, 01:54:23 pm
Sure makes me like our 27 yr old coach--the one without all the fancy electronics!! Wow, the cost of a complete set of new Michelin tires plus a tank of fuel!!
Title: Re: Troubleshooting Red Check Engine Light and White Smoke
Post by: Dub on February 11, 2016, 03:56:42 pm
$2,500.00 labor figures 3- 8hr days to find and fix his problem if they charge 100.00 per hr...
Title: Re: Troubleshooting Red Check Engine Light and White Smoke
Post by: Mark D on February 12, 2016, 10:12:27 pm
Upon careful reflection I've decided it would be best to keep my comments to myself  :P
Title: Re: Troubleshooting Red Check Engine Light and White Smoke
Post by: TulsaTrent on February 12, 2016, 10:21:54 pm
Upon careful reflection I've decided it would be best to keep my comments to myself  :P

Mark,
 
It sounds like you have a lot of experience.
 
As a relative newbie, I would like to learn from that experience. It is possible that someone has a different perception than you, but that does not necessarily invalidate your personal observations and advice.
 
Please continue to contribute and share.
 
Thank you,
 
Trent
Title: Re: Troubleshooting Red Check Engine Light and White Smoke
Post by: Mark D on February 22, 2016, 10:00:13 am
My comments were specifically about labor rates and pricing.  What I've found is that all of the heavy truck shops play fast and loose with pricing in ways I've never seen in the automotive world.  I suspect rv driver is similar to woman driver in a regular car shop.  The commercial drivers seem to get consistent pricing but rvers they really try to figure out what you can pay.  I wouldn't think you'd see this kind of thing with huge cummins, cat dealers, etc but you do.  The one time we had a hung caliper.  We showed up at noon on a friday without an appointment.  The first thing we were told is that there is no way they could get us in.  I said that's fine, I will most certainly have the issue resolved on my own before Monday.  Then magically there were able to get us in and quoted me 5 hours.  I told them that I'm familiar with the mechanism and they can have 2 hours max.  They heeed and hawed and agreed to 2 hours.  All said and done it took 45 minutes so they billed me 1 hour because of a miscommunication between service advisor and mechanic.  The SA was ticked that I only paid 1 hour for a non-book job that took 45 minutes.  This one is somewhat forgivable because they probably don't look at meritor brakes very often and maybe they thought they were getting into something more serious.  Maybe they just wanted clearance for a bad day before they even took it.  That's fine if they framed it a little differently "This could take as long as 5 hours, we've seen it before, but we'll bill you for what we actually use rounded up".  This wasn't how it was framed.

I've had paint/body work estimates from several big companies that are just outrageous.  Pretending like my coach has some kind of magic paint made of unicorn horn or something.

My issue is that if you take your cummins coach to a cummins shop, the issues you have should be relatively common.  There should be a guy there who says "hey, I've seen that before, it's probably ecu".  They should certainly have an ecu in another shop vehicle or on the shelf that matches the engine.  Maybe not tuned exactly but base maps and everything to run it.  Swap it in and see if it runs. 

And why is the ECU $1800.  Isn't there a used part market for these old engines?  It's probably just a leaked electrolytic capacitor that can be replaced.  Even at $125/hr labor it's cheaper to repair the ecu.  It's a fleet part.  That ecu couldn't cost more than $500 in the real world with real profits where everyone gets their pockets lined.  $1800 is just being greedy.

You pay all this money and you still have to fight to get competent work done without your wheels falling off or other major missed steps.  It's just very disappointing and I'm left with having to do all of my own work.  It's sad that a single random guy like Paul Yasbeck working in his driveway can absolutely *shame* the big mechanics in pricing, quality, knowledge and honesty.  I know if I ever break down again, I will look for a small independent with a good reputation over any chain.

Now you see why I don't share my opinion.  It's not good ;)
Title: Re: Troubleshooting Red Check Engine Light and White Smoke
Post by: Hans&Marjet on February 22, 2016, 06:22:23 pm
hey, I've seen that before, it's probably eco"

Having been in the Automotive Dealership Environment . The first thing I told my employees/service advisors" NEVER "diagnose on the drive. It sends false signals to all, techs despise it and the customer now has "expectations" of what is at fault.

My 2 cents

Hans



Title: Re: Troubleshooting Red Check Engine Light and White Smoke
Post by: John Haygarth on February 22, 2016, 07:09:57 pm
Many members may remember my incidents last winter with our coach and faults that after 2 goes the Cummins shop said it was ECM related so they changed it out and programmed then we took a test drive. All looked good ( cost for ECM $1700). Well it failed again and I asked them to check wiring pins going into it and low and behold there were 5 of them bad- causing the paroblem. Now my question to them was " why when you changed it over did you not notice this problem"? Asnswer was "we missed it"
It was now working right so I had them remove new ECM and put mine back in. They did and credited me the cost and time.
Still do not know how the tech missed seeing the problem while unplugging and re-inserting the connections on ECM.\Worked out ok in the end but the issue gave us some scary moments on Hwy.
John H