This is an old topic but after 1 1/2 hours doing a search for "hydraulic fan motor" and reading posts 6 years old and newer, I am no closer to finding the part number for the seal for the hydraulic fan motor. I called FOT today and a new motor is $3000.00 but no price or seal information. Barry Beam had a good post on rebuilding his motor but his is a 2003 and mine is a 1999 If anyone has either a hydraulic motor part number or seal number please post them.
Thanks,
Chuck
You might try straight line steering in San Jose.
Try a search using motor seal.
You may try a local Hyd shop or 2. I know a member had his rebuilt in WVA awhile back. You may need to check with several shops to find one that wants to repair something rather than simply replace it. 3000.00 is a big chunk of change.
With all these other brand coaches that use side radiator hydraulic fan setups, I would think that a new updated parts available system could be put together quite a bit cheaper,has anyone ever looked into that option?
http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@eaton/@hyd/documents/content/ct_154549.pdf
http://www.concentricab.com/_downloads/catalogs/fandrive_us.pdf
http://www.phtruck.com/download/Systems/Fan-Drives/Fan-Drive-Training.pdf
Fan drives (http://powersolutions.danfoss.com/solutions/fan-drives/)
Bernd Ramspeck rebuilt both my motors for about $1000. I don't know whether he'll be willing to share the part numbers, but it wouldn't hurt to ask.
Chuck,
I have been down this road...it ain't fun. For what it is worth, here is what I discovered.
Foretravel used different fan motors on different models, so what I have on my coach may NOT be what you have on yours. You need to get up under your coach, clean off the motors, and get some good photos of the data plate affixed to the side. This is the ONLY way to be sure of what motor you have. Then, you begin the search...
The rest of this info will only help you if you have the same motors as I, but may be of "general interest" to other members.
The fan motors on my coach were built by John S. Barnes. The part number is GM5-16-HF11R10-23-EU921. See photos below.
Early last year, I conducted a online search for a seal kit for this motor. IF you have the same motors on your coach, I can send you the string of emails pertaining to my search. The end result was...I
did find a source for the seals, but the cost was so outrageous that I decided to pass. My motors do leak some oil, but it is not excessive and they still work fine, so I decided to take the "watchful waiting" approach. I'll probably only be able to drive the coach for another 10 years or so (due to
my age). The seals may easily outlast me...
The source I located for the seal kit was a outfit in Great Britain, called JBJ Techniques Ltd. jbj Techniques Limited, MECHANICAL AND FLUID POWER EXPERTS! (http://www.jbj.co.uk)
The cost I was quoted (for 2 kits) was $470 plus shipping! They only had one kit in stock, so waiting time for the 2nd kit was estimated to be 6-8 weeks. Each kit contains a few rubber seals and o-rings. Their explanation for the high cost:
"The seal kits contain all of the seals for all the versions of the motor, so there are some that you would not need but we can not seperate them out as they would be worthless and the kit would still be the same price as a result. Price is due the motor being obsolete and these parts no longer being in production."
So I said "Thanks, but no thanks". They did include a very helpful .PDF file of specs on the motor, which I appreciate. See below.
As Brett stated (above), rebuild by Bernd's shop is a possible solution. I plan to stop by and let him look at my motors next trip to NAC.
Good luck with your search. If I can be of any help, let me know.
The Other Chuck
Thanks for all the replies. I am in Los Angeles and I will repair the seal leak myself, if parts can be found. On my Monaco I took the motor off found the seal number on the shaft seal and did a search for the number. I only found one source it was one of the businesses that buy old stock from companies and resell it. Bought three of them for under $10 and fixed the leak. It would be great if the other two I have would be the same. The Monaco had Danfloss motors made in Italy. According to Mike at Foretravel mine are Sunstrand motors. When searching Sunstrand the Danfloss name comes up, maybe a buyout I don't know. I can do the same for the Foretravel but wanted to avoid it sitting unmovable for over a month while trying to get the part. If I get the seal number for my 1999 I will post the part number for the next person who wants to stop the dirt around the seeping oil.
I don't know what motor is in my 91 GV, but it started leaking a little at the seal and I used a stop leak/seal conditioner in the hydraulic fluid (power steering fluid) and the leak has gone away. I don't remember what brand it was and and the leak went away slowly, but it is gone none the less. I do plan to overhaul that motor, but I prefer to do it at my convenience and not in an emergency mode. Have a great day ---- Fritz
Update: Barry's hyd. motor that he had rebuilt and posted the images of it is the same as mine. Mike at FT confirmed this today. The seal kit number that Barry posts a picture of is 221.20.034.0K Don't bother searching the number I already did and came up with one source. Called and it had been sold in 2014. I now have a Danfloss distributor checking for availability and cost. I may have to park the coach and pull the motor to get just the seal number after all. I needed to drain and flush the cooling system as there is no record of it having ever been done, and to pull the rear motor the coolant has to be drained. Kill two birds with one stone.
Part of the leaking seal issue in my preliminary testing IMO is the fans switch to high speed totally at 190 degrees which is marked on the controller. It's a twenty degree or so ramp up in speed so it starts at around 170 going from the idle/low speed mode that works dead cold to increasing its speed.
Draws 37 hp at high speeds,
The Vpms recent mpg would occasionally show 1-2 more mpg in flat ground, no wind conditions.
As I am trying to improve both the power which is not what was advertised from the factory and the mpg I have researched this extensively ever since.
The more normal fan controls are rated for full speed at 210 degrees which matches the m11's on the engine block electrical switch to turn on the clutch for the forward mounted cooling fan in a truck.
The thermostat does not open fully to 195 on an m11.
Mine runs 175 almost anywhere except for big grades and hot weather then it can run to 200 on the silverleaf and 210-215 on the factory dash gauge.
The silverleaf gets its signal from the ECM on the engine as is more accurate than the place on the output area of the plumbing that the dash gauge uses and shows according to my cummins shop foreman.
His comment was that the lower temp controller would make the fans run more than maybe necessary which causes heat in the system which might be causing the leaking seals quicker than would otherwise occur.
Probably the main reason for the running the cooling system more on higher speeds is so the higher temperature indicating dash gauge comes off its normal position less.
As a Foretravel manage long ago I had countless conversations witn concerned owners about ANY temp gauge movement.
I am sure Foretravel had the same calls. So increase the fans speeds earlier than necessary maybe needed so as to lessen the gauges movement in warmer weather is how I read it.
All the parts connected to the hydraulic system would be getting un necessarily hot from the hot oil in the reservoir?
Steering box comes to mind.
So I located what I hoped to be a higher temp fan controller on a close out from Canada. Labeled 210 degrees and had it installed.
Mileage on a up and down hills trip seems better and the temp gauges both exhibit the exact same readings so far.
Power seems better but I also installed a xl 5050 resonator at the same time.
The ramp up fan speed is now starting 20 degrees higher than before. In mild weather it's not off its low speed mode I am thinking and at high temps the engines thermostat might finally open fully.
I have driven countless diesels in the desert and mountains in hot weather and hardly would notice if the normal temp came up from the 175 the Vpms shows.
Time will tell as summer is coming up but I doubt I did anything but decrease the systems operating temp and lessen the parasitic power losses on the engine and increase my mpg over time.
The 175 engine temp at full load and the low fan speed that it's running seems to me to indicate the cooling system has a lot of reserve for my actual power as built by cummins.
My CPL is 2178 and the actual power is 420hp and 1050 torque. Not 450/1450 as advertised.
So I have maybe less heating input from the engine from the lower power actual build.
If mine was 450/1450 I would have changed the controller also as the possible temp gauge increase would not bother me as much as someone else.
Normal trucks run 200-210 and my buddies 2013 tour gets to 210 on the gauge then drops as the fans come on fully and drops back.
The post here before mine about straight line steering was from a member recently who mentioned they have most of the pumps installed in stock for exchange and have a south location in riverside, ca.
I noted their info and plan to see if they have either the seals and/or the pumps.
Bernd seems to be retail priced on his very good work. Being as a lot of any repair tickets money is labor the actual parts needed if no pump damage has occurred might be a small fraction of the bill.
If I had the 450/1450 engine I probably would not have looked at the systems trying to figure out why the performance was not up to my expectations.
More powerful CPL's get better mileage normally in my experience and the lower temp controller might show less gauge movement.
My take on why my recent mpg would show a fairly large increase is that the 2.200 pound engine finally cooled down the block enough to have the controller go to the low speed mode for longer periods which would lower the 37hp draw and increase the mpg.
Need a long flatter ground run to see but I seem to be correct so far.
The mpg in my ECM is 7.5 over its 120k life so far. A long term increase in power and mpg without any major cooling issues would indicate to my mind that the fan was on too high unnecessarily.
I kept the original one as these are $500 plus parts.
Hopefully your search for the right seals will produce results that can help all of us in the future.
Hard to tell if the weaping seals are from wear, temp or ago or a combination of those inputs.
Reducing the speeds should allow less wear IMO.
You might try this first it worked great on my steering box in my semi truck.
Power Steering Stop Leak (http://lucasoil.com/products/problem-solvers-utility/lucas-power-steering-stop-leak)
The seal kit is now ordered, cost $122.09 shipping not included two week wait time. When I get the pump out I will post the shaft seal part number so it can be purchased if available as a stand alone item. As I recall on the Monaco I had to separate the two halves of the motor to safely remove the seal without damaging the shaft. That's about all for now will update as the motor is finished.
This brings back some bad memories of last year. It seems that, on our coach, Foretravel has changed fan motors from what was originally installed. That required an adapter, or different mounting plate, I forget which. Anyway, no big deal.
We ended up putting a seal kit into the original pump, and we're still running on those repairs a year later.
Craneman, any chance of putting a caliper on seal, with OD, ID, depth I'd be able to source a replacement.
When I take it apart I will have the seal number. I think that the seal OD and thickness and shaft diameter is the needed information. I am not taking it apart until the kit arrives as it disables the coach which in the mean time I can inspect brakes and work on other items.
Good planning there, downtime can stretch out if you're not careful. Yeah, I was hoping you could measure the new seal before installing.
I will post measurements and part number
Hydraulic motor update, The seal kit came this afternoon. Got a number off the shaft seal and found it for sale locally. Ordered three so I can put one in the motor that is not leaking at this time and have 2 spares if anything goes wrong on installation. Removed fan motor and will clean and repair after work tomorrow. It is a dirty job, I had to stop and change clothes and my creeper after draining fluids and removing lines. Then went after bracket bolts. The link for the seal is below (I hope) if not it is a 30 mm od x 20 mm id and 7 mm thick double lip rubber outside.
Shaft Oil Seals TC 20x30x7 (http://www.avxseals.com/Shaft-Oil-Seals-TC-20x30x7-p/tc20x30x7.htm)
Hydraulic pump finally ready for install. A couple of issues, 1) the plastic seal by the seal driver is not in my pump 2) either this kit is an upgrade or not the correct seal kit for my unit. The shaft seal is correct and the large O-rings are correct and one of the double holed seals in the third pic. is correct. The other double holed seal is too thick to sandwich with the Teflon seal. I picked the new parts I could use and installed them and reused the ones that didn't have an exact replacement. I found no reason for the seal failure. The shaft is mirror smooth where the seal rides and the old seal was not brittle. Will have to wait for the seals I ordered to do the second motor. Hope when all is done the leak is gone.
Another update, the fan motor that wasn't showing any signs of a leak does have residual dust from seepage. It must be the main or master motor and the one that is finished is the slave or secondary motor. That explains why I had a seal left over that was not in the first motor. The main motor has a valve on the side and I am sure the leftover seal would go there. I am not going to use it as there is no leakage around that valve. I am waiting for the shaft seal now so I can put it all back together. A picture of the extra seal below.
Chuck, as I have it in my mind to take off Rad etc this year as part of a big preventative maintenance thing that will include the fan motors as well, I was hoping that as your coach is just one yr older than mine maybe the install is close to same. I plan to remove side panel(of course) then CAC etc and was thinking that the Rad may come out sideways rather than dropping down. Now with your experience will that be possible? I have the pit but hope it will come out side after holders etc are removed.
One other thing while talking of radiators, I know my temp guage on Silverleaf is from ecm but the dash guage (which is not working) is from another temp sender and wonder the location of that sender. Any idea if it is the one at rear (close to trans and above starter) or??
JohnH
John, I think with my after cooler on the M-11 it would be impossible to pull my radiator anywhere but down. Also I think our engines are enough different to guess the temp sender location on a 350 I have one sender on the what looks to be the thermostat housing and one on the drivers side of the block about a foot in from the firewall. The radiator, after cooler, fuel cooler and hydraulic cooler and fan motors are made to come down as a assembly, two big bolts one front and one rear hold it all in.
Chuck, my CAC can come out the side as I have had it out and along with small rad cooler. Once the rad is out I will be able to get at pumps and side of block to go thru all wiring etc on that side of engine. That is my plan. Rad is not leaking but as there have been many around the age of it that have been I thought it would be prudent to do it at my leasure once weather warms up. Really hope it does come out the side.
John
John, I hope your configuration is different than mine. The shroud is bolted to the inside of the radiator core. The radiator is 56 in. wide and 23 in. tall the grill is 48 in. wide and 20 in. tall. See picks on the size of mine. Not wanting to get off topic but what are the dimensions of you pit? It would have made this job much easier.
Chuck, with my side panel off it gives opening of 59"" wide so maybe!!!
My pit is 16' long 9' wide top slab and the drop is 3' wide and 5' deep. The length is 12' of opening. I really wanted it 4' longer but Ruthie was battling me on having one on side of driveway as She thought it would be an ugly sight but I kept the top low to ground (3" above gravel) and painted it to match the Pink crushed gravel. It has a cover on to keep it a safe place and actually can drive my car over the cover.
JohnH
John, you mentioned keeping the sides on and just dropping the radiator down into the pit. Have you worked out the logistics of how to handle the weight of the radiator? I was had to lower mine a little before pulling it out sideways, and was able to do that with the motorcycle lifts (one would have worked). Until I decided on the tractor to do the moving, my plan was to use an appliance dolly. Once in the pit and on the floor, do you have an overhead hoist?
There are two other attachment points for the radiator on the lower side corners (photo). I also had to remove the battery compartment front.
No, I have always figured on taking side panel off (me leave a panel on!!!) I was answering Chuck's reply on what I thought I would do but seeing your pictures I am convinced that this IS the way to do it.
I think I saw that in Barry's removal job they lifted the rear way up to get it out and with pit no need to do that also with side panel off to get those few inches either side. I am still not sure why you could not "swivel" slightly the rad to remove it without taking off battery door panel etc, but you know what you had to battle.
Boy, are you all of a sudden getting good at posting pictures now, easy eh?
JohnH
John, I thought about swiveling the radiator to get the "ears" clear, but was not able to push in one far enough to get the clearance, due to the "push back" from the fans and trans. cooler. Taking off the battery door and frame was not difficult. I also needed to do it in order to sand and paint the frame. Getting at everything else behind the radiator is a lot easier with the extra space. I will try to remember to take the photos you requested.