Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 22, 2016, 10:57:35 pm
Title: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 22, 2016, 10:57:35 pm
No, not my stomach...I'm afraid it's a lost cause. I'm referring to the one on our coach.
Nice weather here, so I decided to chase some pesky air leaks. First step: rebuild the front six pack (cuz it's easy to reach). I marked everything carefully, removed the electric solenoids and air hoses, then detached the manifold. Took it inside to work comfortably on my bench.
Disassembly is pretty easy. I used a rubber strap wrench to loosen the "air valves". There was some evidence of water intrusion (see photos), but nothing serious. I was happy to see ZERO evidence of desiccant powder in the valves or air passages...but there was some dust and a bit of oily dirt. Once I got started cleaning things up, I decided to have a little fun...you will see the result in the second set of photos.
I'm waiting on some parts to complete the rebuild. When they arrive, I will put everything back together, then post a final set of photos, plus a list of part numbers. Hope these will be helpful to those of you who have not yet tackled this project.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 22, 2016, 11:00:23 pm
More photos. Notice I stamped the manifold inlet/outlet holes with the air hose numbers, to ease future maintenance work.
I'm waiting on 2 new pressure switches, plus a complete set of Parker Prestomatic air hose fittings. When these arrive, I will finish the rebuild.
Note: Edited the second set of photos to correct the orientation of the manifold...
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Don & Tys on February 22, 2016, 11:17:15 pm
Looking good Chuck! Bookmarking this thread for future reference. ^.^d Don
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Carol & Scott on February 22, 2016, 11:17:42 pm
Very interesting. This project is on my list. I'll be watching. ;D
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: kenhat on February 23, 2016, 12:35:57 am
Once I got started cleaning things up, I decided to have a little fun...you will see the result in the second set of photos.
Given the appearance change, did you use something to remachine the o-ring sealing surfaces of the valve "ports" on the manifold? Inquiring minds ;)
(I ask because it looks like there are scratches across one of them in the first set of photos (middle left on the vertical orientation) that doesn't appear to be there in photos of the second post)
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: John Duld on February 23, 2016, 08:04:32 am
Chuck, How do the check valves on the air in to the manifold look? Are you going to replace them? JD
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: wolfe10 on February 23, 2016, 08:19:30 am
Excellent documentation.
Look forward to final report with PN's.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 23, 2016, 08:24:40 am
Given the appearance change, did you use something to remachine the o-ring sealing surfaces of the valve "ports" on the manifold?
Good question. The manifold body is made of aluminum, so you have to handle it carefully. To clean up the o-ring seats, I used a very high-tech tool: a yellow No.2 pencil eraser. Several of them, actually... I keep a box of pencils in my shop for exactly this purpose - I find the erasers very handy for cleaning electrical contacts and light cleaning/polishing duties. PLUS, if you sharpen the other end, you can write with them!
The rest of the manifold body was gently cleaned with green Scotch-brite pads, followed by a bit of aluminum cleaner-polish. Ran a tap through the threaded holes, cleaned out the drilled passages with Q-tips, vigorously blew out all the holes with my air gun. It is important not to leave any grit behind that might foul a valve seat.
The brass parts cleaned up easily with a brass wire wheel on my bench grinder. The thick cad plated washers (that fit under the coils) were cleaned up with the wire wheel, which pretty much removed all the anti-corrosive finish. I plan to replace these washers, if possible.
@John Duld: All new o-rings will be used, of course, including the ones on the small nylon check valves, both of which are otherwise in like-new condition. Full list of (current) part numbers to follow.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Michelle on February 23, 2016, 08:51:47 am
Good question. The manifold body is made of aluminum, so you have to handle it carefully. To clean up the o-ring seats, I used a very high-tech tool: a yellow No.2 pencil eraser.
^.^d Exactly why I asked (because you've got a great example of how to do it right). If a member isn't familiar with what even tiny scratches can do to o-ring surfaces, they might just think "shiny = good". It's those scratches that transverse the sealing surface that'll get you. (my dad was a model maker/machinist; I learned as a "yout".) I once read about someone taking an angle grinder to an air sealing surface on a coach component - still makes me cringe.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: wolfe10 on February 23, 2016, 10:10:56 am
This goes back many years (OK, decades) but wonder if fine valve lapping compound would allow you to dress the surface properly? No transverse scratches that way.
Norm-- what do you think?
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 23, 2016, 10:17:06 am
It's those scratches that transverse the sealing surface that'll get you.
I was most concerned about the two "top" (when the manifold is mounted on the coach) machined recesses. (In my first post, see the first photo on the left, second row) It looks, to me, like at one time a corrosive liquid (salt water?) was able to penetrate under the outer o-rings. It took a lot of (circular) scrubbing with the eraser to remove the staining/etching in the metal surface. I will take your advice to heart, and be sure to check all the sealing areas for any remaining transverse flaws, before I do the final assembly.
Since the two o-rings that fit under the brass valve bodies are completely "caged" by the design, I have elected to use high quality/high temp Parker red silicone o-rings. I hope the somewhat "soft" (Durometer) nature of this material will help seal any imperfections that remain.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: nitehawk on February 23, 2016, 10:23:02 am
ME? Depends on the scratch depth, the RMS finish required, and the surety that all lapping compound is removed. Controlling depth without proper equipment (most don't have it) that is exactly perpendicular to surface and contact is equal all around is critical. At Mercury Marine we roller burnished round shafts. It crushed the high points and sealed "pores" in the metal by crushing high points into valleys, such that the surface was quite smooth--sometimes a 10 RMS and also helped deter rust.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 24, 2016, 06:00:53 pm
While I wait on parts to finish my rebuild, here is a interesting little technical tidbit. Before I started this project, I read all the pertinent existing literature on this Forum, and on Barry's Beamalarm. Here is the most helpful reference:
If you order the O-ring kit from HWH, they send the large and small O-rings that go between the brass valve body and the aluminum manifold. They DO NOT send (or even sell) the internal O-ring. This is the one you find after you remove the stainless steel "shaft" assembly from the brass valve body. At the very end of the above linked article, the internal O-ring is identified as being a AS568-019. Based on this advice, that is what I ordered for my rebuild.
HOWEVER, after I finished the disassembly of all 6 brass valves (from my front manifold), I discovered something: the internal O-rings in my OEM valves are not conventional O-rings. They are actually circular lathe-cut seals. They have a entirely different "feel" to them - not as slick and smooth, but more of a "textured" surface. And no, they aren't just round O-rings that were sqeezed into a flattened shape - they are definitely square (in cross section).
A little Google search led me to this info: http://www.darcoid.com/images/uploads/pdfs/bulletins/TSD%205423%20(TetraSeal%20Circular%20Lathe%20Cut%20Seals).pdf
A careful measurement of these seals (with micrometer and machinist's rule) reveals they are actually the same size as the AS568-019 O-ring. The only difference is they are square, instead of circular, in cross-section. Since I want to stick as closely as possible with HWH's engineering specs, I decided to order some of these seals and try them instead of the O-rings. If they don't work (i.e. hold pressure), I can always replace them with O-rings.
In all the reading I did, I never saw any mention of these "square" seals. Has anyone else run across these in the process of rebuilding/repairing the HWH six-packs? Or is this a new discovery on my part? Comments?
Photos: Original HWH "square" seal on the left, new replacement AS568-019 O-ring on the right.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Michelle on February 24, 2016, 06:14:38 pm
While I wait on parts to finish my rebuild, here is a interesting little technical tidbit. Before I started this project, I read all the pertinent existing literature on this Forum, and on Barry's Beamalarm. Here is the most helpful reference:
HWH Solenoid Valve Disassemble
That most helpful reference is was actually one of Steve's posts (and those are his photos) here on Foreforums.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: John Haygarth on February 24, 2016, 06:16:29 pm
Chuck, I have seen these over the years and if HWH used them they must be available. I reckon they hold a higher pressure than the O type and hasten to say you cannot use the O rings in that groove as these would not hold any pressure due to the smaller cross section compared to the original. The surface area of the square one is much bigger than the slightly deformed O ring that fits into the groove. JohnH
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: jtm2014 on February 24, 2016, 06:27:50 pm
Nice work and thanks for the documentation / I am sure it will be of great assistance to all who attempt to repair their Six packs.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: craneman on February 24, 2016, 07:27:48 pm
While I wait on parts to finish my rebuild, here is a interesting little technical tidbit. Before I started this project, I read all the pertinent existing literature on this Forum, and on Barry's Beamalarm. Here is the most helpful reference:
If you order the o-ring kit from HWH, they send the large and small o-rings that go between the brass valve body and the aluminum manifold. They DO NOT send (or even sell) the internal o-ring. This is the one you find after you remove the stainless steel "shaft" assembly from the brass valve body. At the very end of the above linked article, the internal o-ring is identified as being a AS568-019. Based on this advice, that is what I ordered for my rebuild.
HOWEVER, after I finished the disassembly of all 6 brass valves (from my front manifold), I discovered something: the internal o-rings in my OEM valves are not conventional o-rings. They are actually circular lathe-cut seals. They have a entirely different "feel" to them - not as slick and smooth, but more of a "textured" surface. And no, they aren't just round o-rings that were sqeezed into a flattened shape - they are definitely square (in cross section).
A little Google search led me to this info: http://www.darcoid.com/images/uploads/pdfs/bulletins/TSD%205423%20(TetraSeal%20Circular%20Lathe%20Cut%20Seals).pdf
A careful measurement of these seals (with micrometer and machinist's rule) reveals they are actually the same size as the AS568-019 o-ring. The only difference is they are square, instead of circular, in cross-section. Since I want to stick as closely as possible with HWH's engineering specs, I decided to order some of these seals and try them instead of the o-rings. If they don't work (i.e. hold pressure), I can always replace them with o-rings.
In all the reading I did, I never saw any mention of these "square" seals. Has anyone else run across these in the process of rebuilding/repairing the HWH six-packs? Or is this a new discovery on my part? Comments?
Photos: Original "square" seal on the left, new replacement AS568-019 o-ring on the right.
Caterpillar has a kit with the square seals so they must be available elsewhere. I am curious as to what you finally use and how it turns out. If you will post the part number it would be appreciated as I will be tackling the same issue in my coach.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: rbark on February 24, 2016, 07:49:23 pm
Those "o" rings are actually called " quad "0" rings. Used in many hydrlalic/air systems on tuna,tug,work boats.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: cynjac on February 24, 2016, 07:59:15 pm
Good Job!
Great write-up and documentation. Look forward to the outcome...............
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: craneman on February 24, 2016, 10:28:19 pm
Here is a link to the square rings, {I hope}
Square O-rings Buna - Nitrile - Tetraseals® or lathe-cut rings (http://www.theoringstore.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=367_98)
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 24, 2016, 10:45:02 pm
Good find! That is where I put in my order this afternoon! On the page you linked, click the top left icon (-000 Series). On the following page, scroll down to part # SN70019 - that's the one you want. I ordered 24 (enough to do all 12 valves on our coach, twice), and it came to $11.17 with postage included.
Direct link: 019 Buna-N Square O-rings - Tetraseals [SN70019] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We... (http://www.theoringstore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=367_98_102&products_id=4431)
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: craneman on February 24, 2016, 11:06:40 pm
Just ordered mine. Thanks for the link.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: John Haygarth on February 24, 2016, 11:39:50 pm
Good find guys, but looking at the type of material would not the Viton be a better choice as it is good for synthetic oil too?? JohnH
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: craneman on February 25, 2016, 12:04:58 am
Good find guys, but looking at the type of material would not the Viton be a better choice as it is good for synthetic oil too?? JohnH
The site lists the Buena as best for petroleum oils which is what I am using for my hydraulics. I have Transynd in the tranny but using Delo for the hydraulic system.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Don & Tys on February 25, 2016, 12:27:27 am
Am I missing something? These "O" rings are internal to the Six pack, right? In which case, their job is to seal clean, dry (ideally) air. Perhaps I missed a transition to seals in the hydraulic system... have to go back and read through the thread again. Don
The site lists the Buena as best for petroleum oils which is what I am using for my hydraulics. I have Transynd in the tranny but using Delo for the hydraulic system.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: craneman on February 25, 2016, 12:47:58 am
Am I missing something? These "O" rings are internal to the Six pack, right? In which case, their job is to seal clean, dry (ideally) air. Perhaps I missed a transition to seals in the hydraulic system... have to go back and read through the thread again. Don
You didn't miss anything I am still focused on my hydraulic fan motor and slipped up. I hope I don't have any oil of any kind other than the lube I put on the seals. On my cranes I do get some engine oil in the air system but that is because the old type compressors bleed oil and I have to drain the tanks periodically.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 25, 2016, 08:38:59 am
No, we're still on track - talking only (please) about the air system. I assumed JohnH's comment had to do with the type of O-ring lube, which is the only "oil" these seals should ever see. Since Buna-N is one of the most common O-ring materials, I am sure there are a number of excellent installation/lubrication products that will be compatible with these seals.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: kenhat on February 25, 2016, 10:40:43 am
I assumed JohnH's comment had to do with the type of O-ring lube, which is the only "oil" these seals should ever see.
So are using any type of O-ring lube? In the past I've used Vaseline & lately started using silicone grease. Probably not the best stuff to use. :(
see ya ken
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 25, 2016, 11:01:56 am
Ken,
I'm going to town today - plan to stop by the local O-ring Emporium, and pick their minds. I live in OILFIELD country, and every single piece of equipment used in the Patch has a multitude of rubber sealing devices. I am sure they will be able to recommend a good installation lube for our rather simple application.
PS: When I worked for Schlumberger, we routinely worked with flow lines, manifolds and valves which were rated at 10,000 PSIG working pressure. Every single piece was fitted with O-rings. You should see what happens when you remove a rubber O-ring from a joint of tubing that has been exposed to high gas pressures. Due to gas permeation, it swells up to about 10 times the normal size - looks like a big rubber Donut!
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 25, 2016, 11:53:30 am
Still waiting on parts, so, another dissertation...
One of my biggest concerns in doing this project is the worn sealing surface on the "plungers". (See photos below) I have been careful, as I do my cleaning, to keep all the parts of each individual valve together. However, when you disassemble the valves to replace the inner seal, it is impossible to avoid disturbing the relationship between the plunger sealing surface and the valve seat. If the seat and the plunger are not perfectly concentric (they are not), then it is possible they may not seal properly when the valve is reassembled.
Plan "A" is to hope for the best (Murphy was a optimist). I will install the rebuilt six pack in the coach, and give it a try. If it holds air, all is good. If it leaks, I'll remove it (again) and go to plan "B": Replace the plungers.
Plan "B". The problem we Foretravel owners have with these HWH valves is not unique. Other SOB's use the same valves. Search the Net and you will find numerous references to these valves, and the attendant problems. HWH will not sell individual replacement parts for these valves, other than O-rings. You must buy a complete valve assembly (expensive), even if all you need is a new plunger. One of our own, Jim McNeece, several years ago posted a alternative source for a possible replacement plunger. I have just touched base (PM) with him, to get a update on his experience. I will relay his reply, or perhaps he will add a note to this thread. Jim's old post:
Possible HWH Solenoid Replacement Plungers (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=19984.msg143512#msg143512)
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: John Haygarth on February 25, 2016, 12:22:53 pm
Chuck, I was referring to the rings being lubricated by a syn' grease, not moving syn' oil as I was aware of the valves job in service. Got to commend you on this job and documentation too as it really helps all of us try and save money and learn more about parts of our coach's. Mine do not leak (as far as I know) but it would be a nice little project to do one nice day in the pit, after others are done I have listed. JohnH
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 26, 2016, 07:31:53 pm
SIX PACK REBUILD - COMPLETE PARTS LIST
Reminder: Everything I list here pertains to the FRONT six pack manifold on our '93 model coach, with the HWH 600 Series leveling system. It is up to you to verify if these items are the same on your coach. Newer models might differ, but I think the HWH hardware is pretty consistent over the model years.
O-RINGS
All the O-rings I have encountered are standard AS568 sizes. These are readily available online, and possibly from local vendors. Online prices change, sometimes daily. I will link where I purchased my O-rings, but you should shop around for the best current price.
Air Inlet Check Valve (2 in front manifold): AS568-10 -010 N70 Buna-N Nitrile 70 O-ring [B70010] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make... (http://www.theoringstore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=367_23_22&products_id=1107)
Air Inlet Check Valve Retaining Plug (2 in front manifold): AS568-13 -013 N70 Buna-N Nitrile 70 O-ring [B70013] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make... (http://www.theoringstore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=367_23_22&products_id=1152)
Between the brass valve and the aluminum manifold (small O-ring): AS568-15 -015 N70 Buna-N Nitrile 70 O-ring [B70015] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make... (http://www.theoringstore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=367_23_22&products_id=1114)
Between the brass valve and the aluminum manifold (large O-ring): AS568-28 -028 N70 Buna-N Nitrile 70 O-ring [B70028] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make... (http://www.theoringstore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=367_23_22&products_id=1075)
Brass valve internal seal, under the stainless armature tube (square O-ring): AS568-19 019 Buna-N Square O-rings - Tetraseals [SN70019] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We... (http://www.theoringstore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2203_98_102&products_id=4431)
PRESSURE SWITCH
On the front six pack, there are 2 pressure switches, 10 PSI, Normally Closed: Originally made by Honeywell, part # 76578-10 NC Stewart Warner-Stewart Warner - Hobbs Pressure Switch 10 psi Normally Closed... (http://www.partdeal.com/stewart-warner-hobbs-pressure-switch-10-psi-normally-closed-2-terminal-76578.html)
AIR CONNECTIONS
Our front manifold was originally fitted with compression-type air connections. With my rebuild, I have elected to change over to more modern Parker Prestomatic "push to fit" air connections. These are now quite common on over-the-road trucks, are fully DOT approved for all air brake systems, and have a max pressure rating of 250 PSI. They are reusable, which will be handy if I ever need to remove this manifold again. You just push in on the tube and the retaining ring, and the tube pulls right out. Push the tube back into the fitting, and it is ready to go again. EASY!
There are six air hose connectors, size 3/8" tube X 1/8" NPT Parker Male Connector, 3/8 x 1/8 In 68PMT-6-2 | Zoro.com (http://www.zoro.com/parker-male-connector-38-x-18-in-68pmt-6-2/i/G4049132/?gdffi=047ada998cf641fa93e55ae8579df863&gdfms=AF982E19582E4AD58E2CF7F82F1DD49A&gclid=COPw1I7QlssCFYIBaQodrXkMIQ&gclsrc=aw.ds)
There is one air hose connector, size 3/8" tube X 1/4" NPT (the air inlet fitting) Parker Male Connector, 3/8 x 1/4In 68PMT-6-4 | Zoro.com (http://www.zoro.com/parker-male-connector-38-x-14in-68pmt-6-4/i/G3924776/?gdffi=047ada998cf641fa93e55ae8579df863&gdfms=C6726B40720147BC86C414B143708BD5&gclid=CJiByZXQlssCFQepaQodsWgPhQ&gclsrc=aw.ds)
You will also need one (or two) brass 1/8" NPT male X 1/8" NPT female 45 degree fittings. This is necessary because the mounting holes for the 2 pressure gauges are too close together to screw them straight in. One gauge must be offset to the side slightly. You can buy this fitting online (Amazon or eBay), or at your local NAPA store. I am planning on using 2 of these 45's, one for each gauge. This will allow easier access to the exhaust ports on the manifold, for the purpose of keeping them clean. See photos below:
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 26, 2016, 07:39:03 pm
Additional photos of parts listed above. The "cigar cutter" is a cool little Parker tool for trimming the end of the air hose. It insures a clean, straight end cut, without squeezing or deforming the tube. A necessity when using the Prestomatic connectors.
@kenhat You asked about lube. As promised, yesterday I stopped at the local O-ring store. They had both of the small O-rings needed for the check valves in stock, so I asked for 5 of each. The nice lady behind the counter tossed them in a plastic bag, and also threw in a 1 ml "sample" tube of Super Lube. She said that's what they recommend for all gasket & O-ring installations. When I got out my wallet, she said "Don't worry about it - just have a nice day". Can't beat that kind of service!
When I got home, I discovered Super Lube is available at all the Big Box stores, Lowe's, Home Depot, etc. Very highly recommended. Next time I go to town, I'll get a bigger tube. Sounds like great stuff - pretty much does everything...except cure hemorrhoids. Too bad about that... :(
Super Lube 21030 Synthetic Grease (NLGI 2), 3 oz Tube: Science Lab Cleaning... (http://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-21030-Synthetic-Grease/dp/B000XBH9HI)
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: kenhat on February 27, 2016, 12:41:13 am
Ha! I have a tube of Super Lube in my bicycle tool box! It's probably 10 or 15 years old. That stuff has been around for a while. I just went out and checked and yep I still have about a half a 3oz tube. :)
see ya ken
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Don & Tys on February 27, 2016, 01:17:54 am
Awesome write up on a topic of interest to the vast majority of Foretravel owners with a mindset to "do-it-yourself"! ^.^d Don
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 27, 2016, 08:02:12 am
Some may question my replacing the (front manifold) pressure switches, since they are expensive. Well, what do they do? From my reading, it appears they mainly function as a safety device, to prevent the coach from being severely "twisted" during auto-leveling and manual leveling operations.
"The air bag pressure switches are used as air bag low air pressure warning switches when the system is in the travel mode. When the system is in the leveling mode, the air bag pressure switches are used to protect the vehicle from excessive twisting during the leveling procedure, specifically when the system is doing a lower procedure."
If you have ever traversed a steep driveway entrance/exit, especially at a angle, and heard your windshield panels creaking and groaning in the frames, then you know about "frame twist". Something to be avoided, especially in older GV models. If the pressure switches can help prevent popping a windshield out of place, then I want them in tip-top condition. Plus, there was no way I was putting my shiny clean manifold back together with grimy, cruddy 20+ year-old switches - aesthetics alone demanded they be replaced!
Footnote: Above quote came from Lesson 10, "Air Suspensions & HWH"...part of the excellent HWH Online Technical School. If you really want to learn about and understand your air suspension system, then you need to study the applicable training modules on this page:
HWH Online Technical School (http://www.hwhcorp.com/ml57000-000.html)
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 27, 2016, 09:36:30 am
One Thing Leads To Another:
After being introduced to the concept of a "square" O-ring (the inner seal on the air valve), I got to wondering how these would work in the other two O-ring positions - between the brass valve body and the aluminum manifold. Hmmm... Looking at the O-ring grooves (also called "glands") on the underside of the valve body, it appears they are cut in a "square" shape, with clearly defined "corners" in the bottom. Seems like a square shaped O-ring would drop right in, since it is exactly the same size as the corresponding conventional round ring. The TetraSeal literature from Parker says: "In most static applications, it is a direct replacement for an O-ring and generally will perform a high pressure gasketing function as well as or better than an O-ring."
Since I know the sealing surfaces on my aluminum manifold are not perfect - I had to clean up several areas of chemical etching, and some fairly deep transverse scratches - I am thinking the increased contact area of the TetraSeals might be advantageous. At any rate, I have ordered a set of the square rings in -15 and -28 sizes. When they arrive (probably Tuesday), I will try fitting them in the grooves, and see how they look...
Stand by for (MORE) photos and my (not) "expert" opinion.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: John Haygarth on February 27, 2016, 11:57:18 am
Chuck, looking good and you have the same assumption I had in post 16 that the surface area contact would give you a better seal. JohnH
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 27, 2016, 07:29:50 pm
...you have the same assumption I had...that the surface area contact would give you a better seal.
Great minds...
I received my order of the -019 square TetraSeals today. They are without a doubt the correct fit for the inner O-ring position. They drop in the hole in the brass body perfectly, and the stainless arbor screws down and seats exactly like it should. Much better than the -019 round O-rings, which seemed a rather loose and sloppy fit in the same space, at least to me. ^.^d
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 29, 2016, 11:46:22 pm
While I was waiting on my last shipment of O-rings (the square TetraSeals in -015 and -028 sizes), I decided to change out the inlet check valves on both "front" and "rear" air tanks. Both tanks, on our U280, are up front right behind the fiberglass "bumper", so easy to get to. But MAN! were those old valves in there tight. Took a lot of heat, a big wrench, and a long cheater to break them loose. Hard to get a lot of leverage laying on your back, looking up...but I got 'er done.
The old ones I removed were marked Bendix 227871 SC-1. The new ones I installed are Haldex KN23000. I got this part number thanks to a old post by (I think) either Bill Willett or else Pamela & Mike...can't remember which. Anyway, thanks Guys!
The new valves are a perfect fit. I did have to replace one brass reducer bushing that was stuck so tight in the old valve that I messed it up trying to get it out. Fortunately, I had the correct replacement bushing on hand.
Hopefully, two more potential air leak locations now rectified!
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on March 01, 2016, 09:46:42 pm
My last O-ring order showed up today. Now, it is decision time. I have 2 sets of O-rings that fit the bottom of the brass valve assembly - between it and the aluminum manifold. Conventional round, and square...so the question is, which will seal best? JohnH has already voted, and I give his opinion a lot of weight. Just going by "eyeball" analysis, it is a close call. Both types fit the grooves well, and stick up out of the groove about the same amount. The round ring is a silicon material, which feels softer than the 70 duro Tetraseal, and might conform to a irregular sealing surface better. However, the square profile does have more surface area in contact with both the groove and the opposite sealing surface on the manifold. Will this apparent advantage still be valid when the valve is torqued down against the aluminum manifold? I really don't know, but my "gut feeling" says it will.
I'm leaning strongly in favor of using the square TetraSeal design, but would welcome any opinions, pro or con, from the Forum.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: kenhat on March 01, 2016, 10:27:30 pm
I have no experience or useful knowledge with square or round but I vote square. Take it for what it's worth.
see ya ken
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on March 01, 2016, 10:45:52 pm
Thanks, Ken - your vote is recorded. ^.^d
Update: In Post #32 (earlier in this thread), I discussed a possible source of replacement plungers. Jim McNeece answered my PM with a positive report on the Skinner plunger. He replaced all the plungers in his valves about 3 years ago. He says,
"So far, mine have worked perfectly. Never have to mess with the air to level the coach, even after several weeks."
So, unless some other source is located, this might be the best (only) option if you must replace one or more plungers. I also sent a email to the supplier, asking for current prices. They responded with a quote of $20 per unit, and no discount for a volume order.
As I said earlier, my plan is to put my front six pack back in service with the original (worn) plungers, and see what happens. I should get this done in the next couple days, so will make another post when I have some news (good or bad).
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: John Haygarth on March 01, 2016, 11:53:00 pm
Chuck I stick with my vote, but there is a simple way to make you see what YOU think. Take a smooth flat steel item and clamp it down across the o ring in the groove and look at the deflection the O ring shape takes to fill the groove. Now the tough part, try and figure how much actual sealing surface is left (after filling the groove) on the o ring. The square one will not need to loose any of its cross section to "fill" the groove so the width of it is actual sealing surface. Then make a decision on what you see. I think I explained what I want you to see correctly. John H
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: nitehawk on March 02, 2016, 08:55:17 am
John is correct. The "square" or quad seal fills the groove entirely and protrudes above the mating surface. Thus you have more initial contact and more pressure required to attempt to compress the square seal. With an o-ring a lot of the force merely deflects the round surface to fit a square depression/groove.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on March 03, 2016, 09:32:44 pm
I reassembled the six pack today, using the square TetraSeals (lubed with Super Lube) in all 3 positions on the brass air valves. They felt real good when I tightened them down - like the seals were making very good contact. Then I reinstalled the manifold on the coach. We shall soon see how it works - hope to get our coach out for a test drive tomorrow.
I had to reuse the old washers that fit between the electric solenoid and the valve body. I could not find a source for that size washer, which is definitely NOT a standard size. They are 1.5" O.D by 0.5" I.D by 1/8" thick. I tried several large hardware specialty supply stores in this area, and did a extensive search online. Based on my findings, the only way to get new ones is to order them custom-made. So I just hit them with a light coat of Rust-Oleum, and put them back in place. Should work fine...
I have to comment on the Parker Prestomatic "push to fit" air connections. They work GREAT! They function just like the SharkBite plumbing connections, which means they are EASY to use. I cut the ends off the old air hoses directly above the old brass compression ring. That way I only lost about 1/2" of length. The Parker Cutting tool I mentioned in a earlier post worked perfectly for this task - made clean, square cuts with very little effort. Then you just push the hose end into the fitting, and pull back slightly. That's all there is to it - can't get much simpler than that.
I had plenty of slack in all the hoses to re-connect to the new fittings. There is no strain or sideways tension on any of them, which is ideal when using this type fitting. I hope they work out well, because they certainly will make maintenance a lot easier, especially if I need to remove a hose at a later time.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Carol & Scott on March 04, 2016, 12:07:54 am
Nice job. Thanks for your excellent write up and pics. It's on my list. ^.^d
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: kenhat on March 04, 2016, 11:47:51 am
That six pack is so pretty it belongs in the Industrial Design section of the Smithsonian! Nice work.
see ya ken
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: John Duld on March 04, 2016, 12:14:49 pm
The 10psi switches on the front manifold only come into play when you level the coach and one side in the front sets down on a hard stop. As soon as the pressure in those air bags goes below 10psi the switch actuates and removes power from the other side dump solenoid to stop that side from continuing down and twisting the coach. These switches were added by Foretravel.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on March 05, 2016, 08:12:32 am
Final report to close out this thread. Took our coach out for a test run yesterday. The rebuilt "front" 6-pack is performing perfectly, best I can tell. I went through a complete test of all the functions on the HWH panel (up/down on all 4 positions, raise, dump), and everything worked great. Auto-leveling works - travel mode works. Apparently I got it put back together properly! ^.^d
Only time, and further operational testing, will tell if this rebuild slows down my general "air leakage" problems. However, I did not expect this first project to be the "Magic Bullet". It is only the initial step in eventually going through the whole coach air system. I expect each component replacement/rebuild to make a small incremental improvement, until I finally get everything back to "factory new" air tightness levels.
Next step will be to replace the protection valves, shuttle/check valves, and double check valve on my "front" & "rear" air tanks. That will be the subject of another Topic.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: John Duld on March 05, 2016, 10:10:13 am
Nice job Chuck! You just can't beat doing it right! It always pay's off !
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: John Haygarth on March 05, 2016, 11:38:16 am
x2 nice job Chuck. JohnH
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: P. Wyatt Sabourin on March 05, 2016, 11:14:08 pm
I ordered 25 also and will order other seals before dismantling. This is a very valuable thread to me, thanks for your time and effort.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: P. Wyatt Sabourin on March 06, 2016, 12:03:03 am
My protection valves were leaking because the rubber (maybe neoprene) seal had cracked. I cut a piece of bicycle tube to size and installed it on top of the cracked seal. It raised the protection press from 60 to 70 psi. This pressure can be adjusted with an alan wrench. This has been working for 5 years. The check valves on the front/rear tanks are very high quality. I dismantled them and cleaned the brass seal with 2000 grit and reassembled. Working fine six months later. I bought new check valves but did not install them. I managed to get my pressure loss down to 3psi per hour which is half of Foretravel standard (6 psi/hour) and 1/20th of DOT standard. I am not convinced that replacing your check valves is necessary.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on March 06, 2016, 08:22:52 am
The check valves on the front/rear tanks are very high quality. I dismantled them and cleaned the brass seal with 2000 grit and reassembled. Working fine six months later. I bought new check valves but did not install them.
...I am not convinced that replacing your check valves is necessary.
Wyatt, I appreciate your comments. I am all in favor of restoring and reusing a component, where feasible. My old check valves, however, were in very "rough" condition internally. (I already tossed them in the trash bin, or I would add a photo). In my opinion, they were not fit for salvage, so I installed new ones.
I read, in one of the online HWH documents, that the air systems in RVs are not designed to be "zero loss". That is, even when functioning perfectly, they are expected to leak. You have managed, on your coach, to reduce the "leakage" rate to a admirable degree. Proves it is possible...
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: John Haygarth on March 06, 2016, 11:30:47 am
I also have taken apart/cleaned etc those valves along with others, but, did replace the check valves on tanks as they are so cheap to do. My pressure loss is around 1.5 to 1.8 lbs/hr and blame some of that on the pnuematic drop down step cylinders. One of these days they are coming apart and get new o rings etc. My biggest loss was the step slide cover cylinder which now is zero due to NC solenoid on it. Another job (for fun more than anything else) is the 6 packs as they must be needing a good cleanup due to install location but they do not leak. JohnH
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Elliott on January 21, 2021, 11:00:52 am
Reminder: Everything I list here pertains to the FRONT six pack manifold on our '93 model coach, with the HWH 600 Series leveling system. It is up to you to verify if these items are the same on your coach. Newer models might differ, but I think the HWH hardware is pretty consistent over the model years.
Chuck this is awesome stuff, thank you for this. Has anyone been able to confirm whether or not the parts are the same on the early 2000 unicoaches?
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: DayDreamer on January 21, 2021, 12:12:21 pm
Chuck this is awesome stuff, thank you for this. Has anyone been able to confirm whether or not the parts are the same on the early 2000 unicoaches?
They are the same for a 1997.
As FYI, if you order the re-build kit from Tom, it will include all of the orings needed except for the check valve and associated retainer plug orings. Tom's kit includes orings for the plunger seat, but they are the round type vs the square cut which appears to be the original style.
On Tue, I ordered orings using the part list and supplier in this post. They arrived yesterday. The orings are between .01 to .08 cents each, but they do have a minimum quantity. Shipping will probably cost more than the orings but it is reasonable too.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: red tractor on January 21, 2021, 07:21:32 pm
I get o rings at a hydraulic repair shop.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: bbeane on January 21, 2021, 09:05:34 pm
I used the o-rings included in Toms kit, all works good.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: John Haygarth on January 21, 2021, 10:45:10 pm
They are the same as I used them on our 2000. They are also the same for Country Coach and any make with hwh 6 packs as far as I am aware Johnh
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: SteveB on January 22, 2021, 09:52:59 am
There are solenoid operated air valves made by Deltrol. They are uncommon and the kits Tom sells will not work to rebuild these valves as his documentation clearly states. I bought a complete new HWH six pack manifold assembly on eBay that had these valves. The manifold was slightly different than the one on my coach but I used the Deltrol valves on my front six pack and so far all is good. These can be identified by their square shaped solenoids.
Steve
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Ldillow on March 14, 2021, 11:25:03 am
Add two 1/4 pipe to 3/8 hose 90 degree parker quick connectors to your list and you have what you need for the rear hose fittings!
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: oldguy on March 14, 2021, 01:22:07 pm
I ordered a valve from Foretravel and the part # on the box is RAP 1940. If you google that part # you can buy them for more than half the price.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Ldillow on March 18, 2021, 07:39:25 pm
Question on rear 85lb pressure Nason switch. Mine is pretty ugly, but I guess I can test it. I assume I can put it online on my compressor hose. Do I apply 12v to it and it will close and then open at 85lb?
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Ldillow on March 18, 2021, 07:55:47 pm
I applied 12v across the connectors on it and it blew the 7.5 amp fuse. Probably not working
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Ldillow on March 18, 2021, 08:27:32 pm
Figured it out. Pressure at 85lb opens connection. It was set a little low. Adjusted works awesome
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Elliott on September 07, 2021, 11:23:37 pm
Adding some photos and tips to this thread instead of starting a new one, since it's the go-to guide.
This is the rear manifold off my 2001.
It's two 9/16 bolts holding the six pack on. A 3/4 nut holds the solenoids on.
I found a small hooked dentist pick very useful for picking the old o-rings out, seating the smallest o-ring (using backside) and cleaning gunk out of the grooves the rings sit in (again, using the backside of the pick with a fine cloth)
Don't forget to source pneumatic thread sealant before starting the job since it can be hard to source in person. Loctite 545 or similar is what you want. Silicon grease and dielectric grease both too.
I took the solenoids out, it made testing each of them easy. If you do that, make sure you use colored zip ties or similar to mark the plugs so you know which ones go where when reinstalling.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on September 08, 2021, 08:39:29 am
I think it's a good idea to cover the open ends of the air lines while the 6-pack manifold is removed from the coach. I like to use a piece of tinfoil for that purpose. Easy on - easy off.
You want to be sure no bugs or dirt can get into those open lines. One tiny insect carcass in the wrong place could cause all kinds of mysterious leveling system problems.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Ldillow on September 08, 2021, 10:05:17 am
I changed to the Parker push on connectors. Now some of my hoses are too short, so be careful with this so.ution
Reminder: Everything I list here pertains to the FRONT six pack manifold on our '93 model coach, with the HWH 600 Series leveling system. It is up to you to verify if these items are the same on your coach. Newer models might differ, but I think the HWH hardware is pretty consistent over the model years.
O-RINGS
All the O-rings I have encountered are standard AS568 sizes. These are readily available online, and possibly from local vendors. Online prices change, sometimes daily. I will link where I purchased my O-rings, but you should shop around for the best current price.
Air Inlet Check Valve (2 in front manifold): AS568-10 -010 N70 Buna-N Nitrile 70 O-ring [B70010] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make... (http://www.theoringstore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=367_23_22&products_id=1107)
Air Inlet Check Valve Retaining Plug (2 in front manifold): AS568-13 -013 N70 Buna-N Nitrile 70 O-ring [B70013] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make... (http://www.theoringstore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=367_23_22&products_id=1152)
Between the brass valve and the aluminum manifold (small O-ring): AS568-15 -015 N70 Buna-N Nitrile 70 O-ring [B70015] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make... (http://www.theoringstore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=367_23_22&products_id=1114)
Between the brass valve and the aluminum manifold (large O-ring): AS568-28 -028 N70 Buna-N Nitrile 70 O-ring [B70028] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make... (http://www.theoringstore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=367_23_22&products_id=1075)
Brass valve internal seal, under the stainless armature tube (square O-ring): AS568-19 019 Buna-N Square O-rings - Tetraseals [SN70019] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We... (http://www.theoringstore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2203_98_102&products_id=4431)
PRESSURE SWITCH
On the front six pack, there are 2 pressure switches, 10 PSI, Normally Closed: Originally made by Honeywell, part # 76578-10 NC Stewart Warner-Stewart Warner - Hobbs Pressure Switch 10 psi Normally Closed... (http://www.partdeal.com/stewart-warner-hobbs-pressure-switch-10-psi-normally-closed-2-terminal-76578.html)
AIR CONNECTIONS
Our front manifold was originally fitted with compression-type air connections. With my rebuild, I have elected to change over to more modern Parker Prestomatic "push to fit" air connections. These are now quite common on over-the-road trucks, are fully DOT approved for all air brake systems, and have a max pressure rating of 250 PSI. They are reusable, which will be handy if I ever need to remove this manifold again. You just push in on the tube and the retaining ring, and the tube pulls right out. Push the tube back into the fitting, and it is ready to go again. EASY!
There are six air hose connectors, size 3/8" tube X 1/8" NPT Parker Male Connector, 3/8 x 1/8 In 68PMT-6-2 | Zoro.com (http://www.zoro.com/parker-male-connector-38-x-18-in-68pmt-6-2/i/G4049132/?gdffi=047ada998cf641fa93e55ae8579df863&gdfms=AF982E19582E4AD58E2CF7F82F1DD49A&gclid=COPw1I7QlssCFYIBaQodrXkMIQ&gclsrc=aw.ds)
There is one air hose connector, size 3/8" tube X 1/4" NPT (the air inlet fitting) Parker Male Connector, 3/8 x 1/4In 68PMT-6-4 | Zoro.com (http://www.zoro.com/parker-male-connector-38-x-14in-68pmt-6-4/i/G3924776/?gdffi=047ada998cf641fa93e55ae8579df863&gdfms=C6726B40720147BC86C414B143708BD5&gclid=CJiByZXQlssCFQepaQodsWgPhQ&gclsrc=aw.ds)
You will also need one (or two) brass 1/8" NPT male X 1/8" NPT female 45 degree fittings. This is necessary because the mounting holes for the 2 pressure gauges are too close together to screw them straight in. One gauge must be offset to the side slightly. You can buy this fitting online (Amazon or eBay), or at your local NAPA store. I am planning on using 2 of these 45's, one for each gauge. This will allow easier access to the exhaust ports on the manifold, for the purpose of keeping them clean. See photos below:
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on September 08, 2021, 10:29:09 am
I changed to the Parker push on connectors. Now some of my hoses are too short, so be careful with this solution
Agree - be careful. Measure twice - cut once.
The push-on connectors work best when there is zero sideways strain on the air lines. Make sure you have sufficient slack in the lines before swapping to push-on connectors.
Also, when using push-on connectors, air line ends should be cut off cleanly, with no burrs or deformation of the tubing. See my note (Reply #34) on the Parker tubing cut-off tool.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Michelle on September 08, 2021, 10:42:32 am
I think it's a good idea to cover the open ends of the air lines while the 6-pack manifold is removed from the coach. I like to use a piece of tinfoil for that purpose. Easy on - easy off.
You want to be sure no bugs or dirt can get into those open lines. One tiny insect carcass in the wrong place could cause all kinds of mysterious leveling system problems.
One should also be careful with the manifold block itself, particularly the face where the valves screw on. That's an o-ring mating surface, it should be as smooth and clean as possible, and you need to be careful not to scratch it. Any radial scratches that cross the mating area can cause leaks.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: gracerace on September 08, 2021, 12:01:09 pm
One should also be careful with the manifold block itself, particularly the face where the valves screw on. That's an o-ring mating surface, it should be as smooth and clean as possible, and you need to be careful not to scratch it. Any radial scratches that cross the mating area can cause leaks.
Yes, and easy to bugger an O ring screwing the solenoid on, or any of the O rings for that matter......Ask me how I know.... 8) Chris
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Michelle on September 08, 2021, 12:50:16 pm
Yes, and easy to bugger an O ring screwing the solenoid on, or any of the O rings for that matter......Ask me how I know.... 8) Chris
^.^d
Just a tiny dab of o-ring grease (not too much, just enough) between clean thumb and forefinger, then gently drag/rotate (don't tug/stretch) the o-ring between them to LIGHTLY lubricate...
(I spent too many years maintaining thin film vacuum deposition and etch equipment. Lots and lots of flanges and o-rings...)
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Elliott on September 08, 2021, 03:21:08 pm
I am still trying to figure out how the people that do this job without removing the manifold from the coach keep the o-rings clean. I came out looking like this.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on September 08, 2021, 03:37:52 pm
Job is easier on some coaches than others due to location of the manifolds.
On my U280 the front manifold is a piece of cake. I can roll under the coach on my creeper and then sit up to work comfortably in the shade, with the manifold hanging there at face level, totally unobstructed.
My rear manifold, on the other hand, is just the exact opposite. I am a LOT dirtier than you after working on it.
Plus, some extremely fortunate Forum members have service pits where they park their coach. Working underneath a coach while standing upright is much nicer.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Pamela & Mike on September 08, 2021, 05:59:35 pm
Plus, some extremely fortunate Forum members have service pits where they park their coach. Working underneath a coach while standing upright is much nicer.
Building the pit so you set on a 5 gallon bucket is even better.
Mike
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: gracerace on September 09, 2021, 10:08:05 am
I am still trying to figure out how the people that do this job without removing the manifold from the coach keep the o-rings clean. I came out looking like this.
Elliot Depends how dirty the coach is underneath. Mine is pretty clean because I pressure washed it when I got it, it also has no road rust/crud. I wonder how others do them off the coach, without getting crap in the air lines, and not making a mistake mixing them up. I get the colored zip ties, I get the tin foil over the lines, but still too much room for err for me. I like doing one at a time on the coach. Whichever way works for someone, is the best way. Did front and back in 1 hr on the coach couple of yrs ago. Still going strong. Chris
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: gracerace on September 09, 2021, 10:09:10 am
Just a tiny dab of o-ring grease (not too much, just enough) between clean thumb and forefinger, then gently drag/rotate (don't tug/stretch) the o-ring between them to LIGHTLY lubricate...
(I spent too many years maintaining thin film vacuum deposition and etch equipment. Lots and lots of flanges and o-rings...)
Yes sir, I used a light dab of vaseline on them. On mine, one got bumped I figure. But found the leak right away. Chris
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Twig on September 09, 2021, 10:27:32 am
I am still trying to figure out how the people that do this job without removing the manifold from the coach keep the o-rings clean. I came out looking like this.
Take each solenoid off the manifold as a complete assembly and rebuild it on a table then re-attach it to the manifold as a complete assembly. No need to undo any airlines. Just a ground wire and the plug wire. There is no need to partially disassemble the solenoid while it's attached to the manifold.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: Elliott on September 16, 2021, 10:41:09 am
I rebuilt my front six pack last night and there's a special place in hell for whoever decided to put it in that location. I couldn't get to the top four air lines so I took the Twig approach and removed three solenoids at a time while the manifold was still attached.
It was quite the contortionist act loosening the two mounting bolts at the top to allow enough room to spin the top solenoids off. Reinstalling the HWH tank by myself was also quite the feat thanks to some very stiff airline fittings.
If I were going to do it again I'd probably see if I could rent someone's pit or pay for an hour on a lift somewhere. Some ramps + safety blocks might work too.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: folivier on September 16, 2021, 11:19:53 am
Don't remember where I read this but I think someone had moved the 6-pack to a more accessible location. Basically you'd just need to extend the wires and tubing.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: bbeane on September 16, 2021, 07:04:45 pm
Wait till you enjoy the rear one
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: tmehrkam on September 29, 2021, 02:33:59 pm
I rebuilt the front six pack about six months ago. Was not difficult just make sure where everything goes. Label them if they are not labled from the factory. The rear one will be done in the next year or so. I removed the six pack and rebuilt it on the bench.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: turbojack on September 29, 2021, 03:49:35 pm
I rebuilt my front six pack last night and there's a special place in hell for whoever decided to put it in that location. I couldn't get to the top four air lines so I took the Twig approach and removed three solenoids at a time while the manifold was still attached.
When I took a tour of the Entregra factory they had a raw frame from Spartan getting ready to go in the assembly line. While I was looking at it, there was a computer or ? that had a lot of wires going to it that was sitting at the top of the rails. It was easy to get to with no coach sitting on the frame. I thought about the poor sole that would have to be able to get to it if there was a problem. I took a picture of it. Will have see if I can find it.
Title: Re: Working On My Six Pack
Post by: turbojack on September 30, 2021, 10:55:43 am
Here is picture. Looks like the computer for the transmission sitting on top. How would like to get to that one day. Sorry, picture was a little out of focus. 2016 Spartan K3 Chassis