Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Discussions => Topic started by: TheGadgetGuru on March 12, 2016, 12:04:18 am
Title: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: TheGadgetGuru on March 12, 2016, 12:04:18 am
I have to say that I've been wanting to purchase my first coach for the longest time, and have both the Realm and the IH-45 on my short list along with the King Aire. My question is not typical and I hope to receive some solid advice.
While I truly want to make the plunge the big factor is learning to drive with good habits in a safe and responsible manner and how to perform basic maintenance tasks. I've contacted a number of dealers and with the exception of one (Lazydays), the answer is the same. Here's the question:
Prior to purchasing a 45' luxury coach, do you provide any detailed driver training?
Lazydays seems to be the only dealer that has an education program, but the problem is that I would like to purchase a higher end coach than they offer in order to make my first coach my last. Also, the Lazydays behind the wheel seat time is limited to its facility. I can "assume" those roads are coach-friendly and I'm more interested in learning to drive and feeling comfortable in real world driving situations.
I contacted Foretravel and asked the same question and the response was that once I buy it, they will teach me how to drive. I responded by asking them what happens if I buy it and then learn than it's simply too much for me to handle? You know the answer...nothing, I'm basically stuck with it.
While I like what I'm seeing with both the Realm and IH-45 as well as the King Aire, where in the heck do I go to learn to drive before I buy? I don't want to be one of those folks who knocks down street signs on the way home or who realizes that I'm simply over my head.
Now, common sense would tell us the RVIA would have some sort of training program. After all, they are funded by the manufacturers and are tasked with bringing more people into the RV world. Well, I contacted them and it seemed like a foreign concept. I pointed out to them that another trade group, the motorcycle industry's (MIC) has been very successful with its Motorcycle Safety Foundation (MSF) and it seems like its new rider training program has resulted in bringing many new riders to the world of motorcycling. The RVIA person seemed to acknowledge it was a good idea, but had nothing to offer.
So, any constructive suggestions on how this rookie can be made comfortable enough to spend the big bucks on a top of the line coach and make the first coach be my last?
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: John44 on March 12, 2016, 08:05:01 am
First,fill out the signature section so we know where you are.There are some rv driving schools nationwide.Another idea would be to rent a u-haul truck and drive it around,just to get an idea of driving something big.I would bet money there is a forum member out there near you who would take you for a ride.One last idea,sign your wife up to the foretravel ladies driving school in oct.Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Tim Fiedler on March 12, 2016, 08:09:23 am
Gadget, it would help if you added city and state that would be convenient for your training
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: toyman on March 12, 2016, 08:14:50 am
My suggestion would be to contact a truck driving school near you. They provide equipment and instructors. Look for CDL training locally.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Tim Fiedler on March 12, 2016, 08:21:35 am
Gadget, PM me with your phone number
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: TheGadgetGuru on March 12, 2016, 08:25:03 am
First,fill out the signature section so we know where you are.There are some rv driving schools nationwide.Another idea would be to rent a u-haul truck and drive it around,just to get an idea of driving something big.I would bet money there is a forum member out there near you who would take you for a ride.One last idea,sign your wife up to the foretravel ladies driving school in oct.Hope that helps.
Signature section and Forum info: Done!
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: TheGadgetGuru on March 12, 2016, 08:29:21 am
I'll add that I had a conversation with Gary from RV Basic Training (http://www.rvbasictraining.com/) yesterday and he might be able to provide a trainer in my location and we'll simply rent a 45' coach from All Star Rentals in Ft. Lauderdale for some basic training.
All input is greatly appreciated! Thank You!
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Dave Cobb on March 12, 2016, 09:26:18 am
Count yourself lucky to be starting at the top with those sizes of coaches. Lots of folks have progressed up from smaller units, smaller mistakes, and added experience thru their years of ownership. A driving class can save you hugely down the road. If you are one that is a "natural" when it comes to driving things with wheels, machinery, or things that float, you should have little trouble. A rental of a coach of the size you mentioned would be a good way to get the feel of a 45'er.
You have started off on a slippery slope of RV ownership. Enjoy the trip, and safe travels.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on March 12, 2016, 09:40:03 am
Even though we had an RV for more the 30 years before we bought our FT we decided to go to RV Driving School.
RV School (http://www.rvschool.com) School locations – Click on map icon to see the town & date availability |... (http://www.rvschool.com/school-locations/)
They have instructors all over the country, you just need to get close to one of them and they come to you.
We picked up our FT in California and drove about 80 miles on back roads to Palmdale to a nice RV Park. The instructor came to us and spent 12 hours over two days teaching and coaching both of us on driving skills. We drove in the city, two lane roads with shoulders and without, up in some big hills and on the freeway. We drove into a gas station and bought some fuel. We drove into a Target parking lot and figured out where to park. Then we drove into an older much tighter shopping center so he could show us that we could do that too. We spent a couple hours in a big empty parking lot with orange cones learning how to back into different types of camp sites or parking spots. We learned how to make left and right turns and stay in your lane. There was enough space so we could try a hard stop from 45 mph to see what the coach did. He spent time on what to do every day before you set out and each time you stop.
When we were done we had the beginnings of confidence in ourselves and each other to drive carefully and safely and how to help each other. Then comes years of practice. It was very much worth the time and $.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Peter & Beth on March 12, 2016, 09:46:26 am
Making a mistake when getting into the motorcoach life style can be very costly especially when considering the coaches & invested amounts you're looking at. So be very sure the coach style is for you.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Mike Leary (RIP) on March 12, 2016, 09:58:05 am
You'll know you're not alone if you buy a DVD of "The Long,Long Trailer" with Lucille Ball & Desi Arnaz. Good luck, we all remember our first few (daunting) years with motor-coaches! What I keep on my mind after years of cruising is, "it's easy to get into a spot, the challenge is to plan for a way out"!
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Michelle on March 12, 2016, 10:25:09 am
One last idea,sign your wife up to the foretravel ladies driving school in oct.
Unfortunately that's not a FT offering but rather a Motorcade Club offering. You have to be a MC club member, thus already owning a FT, to attend.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Peter & Beth on March 12, 2016, 01:57:11 pm
I very strongly suggest (because you're considering very large sums of money) to make a much smaller investment (say $50,000) trying out the coach life style for a year or so to ensure you do like this stuff and can handle all it thows at you along the way. Buy an older coach already depreciated for around $80,000 and perform all the fixes for $20,000, does not have to be a Foretravel, and make an effort to learn all the ins and outs before making a $1 million expenditure that will surely depreciate quickly. At the end of your one year test you'd be able to get $50,000 out of it on a sale or trade-in.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Mike Leary (RIP) on March 12, 2016, 02:34:16 pm
I very strongly suggest (because you're considering very large sums of money) to make a much smaller investment (say $50,000) trying out the coach life style for a year or so to ensure you do like this stuff and can handle all it thows at you along the way. Buy an older coach already depreciated for around $80,000 and perform all the fixes for $20,000, does not have to be a Foretravel, and make an effort to learn all the ins and outs before making a $1 million expenditure that will surely depreciate quickly. At the end of your one year test you'd be able to get $50,000 out of it on a sale or trade-in.
Can you say "bullshit" on this forum? The first AS coach we looked at was pristine: all up-grades, perfect! I asked the sales guy WHY the coach was for sale. He told us the PO was planning to retire and hit the road; sadly, he died before his dream was realized. That comment has stuck with me to this day; I'd say, GO FOR IT! Money spent is no big deal, life enjoyed is priceless!
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: nitehawk on March 12, 2016, 03:07:24 pm
Ever see a Brinks Armored Truck following a hearse? Ever see a coffin with pockets? Leave exactly what your parents left you, to your kids. Enjoy your life. You worked hard for it. You earned it. Work is done. Go play!!
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Bob & Sue on March 12, 2016, 03:14:04 pm
Count yourself lucky to be starting at the top with those sizes of coaches. Lots of folks have progressed up from smaller units, smaller mistakes, and added experience thru their years of ownership. A driving class can save you hugely down the road. If you are one that is a "natural" when it comes to driving things with wheels, machinery, or things that float, you should have little trouble. A rental of a coach of the size you mentioned would be a good way to get the feel of a 45'er.
You have started off on a slippery slope of RV ownership. Enjoy the trip, and safe travels.
AND...... Don't forget the whole "towing thing". Whatever, wherever your "practicing" with this coach. Consider that the reverse gear doesn't work. After over 5000 miles we haven't even towed anything yet because we can't seem to go anywhere without backing up for some reason. Any were only 36'. A 45' coach with 20' behind that. Seems like a big bit to take as a newby.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: TheGadgetGuru on March 12, 2016, 03:57:35 pm
Can you say "bullshit" on this forum? The first AS coach we looked at was pristine: all up-grades, perfect! I asked the sales guy WHY the coach was for sale. He told us the PO was planning to retire and hit the road; sadly, he died before his dream was realized. That comment has stuck with me to this day; I'd say, GO FOR IT! Money spent is no big deal, life enjoyed is priceless!
As they say, "You only go around once in life..."
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: nitehawk on March 12, 2016, 05:37:13 pm
So you have to unhook the towed to back up. So, what? One time in 5000 miles. Jeez Louise!! that ratio is 1/5000. Drive the coach as if you stole it. You aren't buying it to make a garage queen out of it, are you? They are made to expand your horizons and experiences. You will have insurance, and you will be in the best coach built anywhere!! I don't see too many 1989 class A coaches around that look anywhere near as good as our '89 Foretravel. Memories are made best in a Foretravel. Less headaches, less problems at the delivery. Best quality assurance, and the best damn support forum right here!!
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Carol & Scott on March 12, 2016, 06:07:02 pm
Spend the doe ray me on driving school. Rent a 45'er for a week or two. Then, if you want, buy what you want. My guess even if you buy new and decided that you didn't like it you could sell and maybe be out 1 or 200k.
You could buy a very nice FT for 3/400k and probably sell it for close to what you paid.
Nice coach to learn in with minal $$$ loss.
A MH is not an investment. :D
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Mike Leary (RIP) on March 12, 2016, 07:02:20 pm
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: its toby on March 12, 2016, 07:43:38 pm
I have had some investments that make a motorhome look like a good financial decision.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Michelle on March 12, 2016, 07:47:52 pm
Peter and Scott's recommendations of starting with a gently-used FT are actually close to what we did.
We started with a high-quality class C (Lazy Daze) - had the requirement that I be comfortable driving it since we share the driving. We quickly discovered that we LOVED the RV lifestyle and wanted something larger for longer trips, so a few years later decided to buy a used Foretravel with the thought that if we found it too big or otherwise not our style, we would sell it and go back to a Lazy Daze. Again, I had to be comfortable driving it. Part of our purchase was the consignment dealer helping us get through our Texas class B licenses. Having in our minds that we were OK will selling the coach if we found it didn't work well for us (and purchasing used so there wouldn't be a huge depreciation hit) made the decision easier.
12 years later, we still have the same Foretravel and know even more what will be important in our next coach.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Peter & Beth on March 12, 2016, 08:35:04 pm
Manners?
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Jimmyjnr on March 12, 2016, 09:11:04 pm
Michele nailed it .
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: TheGadgetGuru on March 12, 2016, 10:18:22 pm
Allow me to say that I'm impressed by the friendliness of those on this forum. Having created and operated a motorcycle forum in the past (TheVOG.net), I know how sometimes a newbie question can get out of hand and bring a lot of criticism...not here. Thank You!
It's interesting to hear that some feel it's best to have a starter coach and others say, go for it. I guess that part of my desire of going all in, up front is that I'm seeking a coach that, other than including all the modern creature comforts of home and being designed for the way that I want to live life on the road, is a pleasure to drive...even in adverse weather and windy conditions. Also, as you can tell by my handle, I'm no stranger to technology and hope to purchase a coach that includes items that have been well thought out.
I've been in contact with Gary from RV Basic Training about finding a trainer to do a multi-session, one-on-one boot camp with a 45' model that I can rent locally at All Star Coaches. I should know by mid-week if this will become a reality.
When I say that I've been wanting to do this for quite some time, I'm not making this up. Here's one of the TV segments I hosted 20 years ago that featured new campers and RV's. This story, and another TV segment I produced along with a few national print stories (syndicated newspaper and USA Today) gave me the honor of being the RVIA's Journalist of the Year. So, when I'm being critical of the RVIA not having a program that educates newbies (such as myself) who want to take part in this lifestyle, I'm not being a hypocrite. Maybe I can make a difference in this industry and spark a change. Quite possibly, if folks like me are vocal enough, maybe the right people will take notice and understand that while some of us are mesmerized by coaches, we're also intimidated by the sheer size of them. It's also my hope to document as much as the learning process as possible, so that it might help others in my predicament in the future.
Again, thanks for the warm welcome and please keep the great advice coming! I could use all the wisdom I can get! Here's the link to one of the TV segments:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rLTVZVRg4c
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Forewheelers on March 12, 2016, 10:46:42 pm
My wife and I just spent a day at the horse races on a wet and sloppy track making an investment, I guess. Went back to the motorhome tonight to lick our wounds. I suppose an investment is a matter of conjecture.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on March 12, 2016, 10:56:25 pm
Folks, the question Mr Gadget asked was about getting some help with the driving side of making a choice to move forward into the motorhome life.
I have to say that I've been wanting to purchase my first coach for the longest time, and have both the Realm and the IH-45 on my short list along with the King Aire. My question is not typical and I hope to receive some solid advice.
While I truly want to make the plunge the big factor is learning to drive with good habits in a safe and responsible manner and how to perform basic maintenance tasks. I've contacted a number of dealers and with the exception of one (Lazydays), the answer is the same. Here's the question:
Prior to purchasing a 45' luxury coach, do you provide any detailed driver training?
While I like what I'm seeing with both the Realm and IH-45 as well as the King Aire, where in the heck do I go to learn to drive before I buy? I don't want to be one of those folks who knocks down street signs on the way home or who realizes that I'm simply over my head.
So, any constructive suggestions on how this rookie can be made comfortable enough to spend the big bucks on a top of the line coach...
There are lots of ways to move into this lifestyle, but comfort in this case is related to driving the coach and being safe, not the best way we can think of for him to choose to spend his resources.
I sure hope you get a beauty and we get to see it someday. Good shopping to you.
Roger
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Lucky1 on March 12, 2016, 11:16:47 pm
Gadget,
First, I trust you've done enough research to ascertain that these rigs depreciate like the F-4 Phantom glides without thrust. Also, you need to be fairly mechanically inclined or be a shrewd negotiator. Well, you need that anyway if you are buying at this end. Pakistani rug salesman level of skills in fact.
That said, it's your money. Buy it. Drive until you smell ---- and hear glass. You'll be fine. My first rig was 45' and I drove very timid and made very careful route plans. But, I was pretty sure I could do it based on my knowledge of who else did. That's how I got through basic training and many things in life. I've not driven near what most of these folks have driven in terms of miles, and am considering a CDL for safety and the experience. I don't know that you have to do that before you buy your rig though.
Also, I've owned a King Aire and a Foretravel. I'd pick the Foretravel any day. The construction really is better. Dealing directly with the manufacturer is refreshing. They are tremendous people. But this forum is worth it's weight in gold. These folks have offered a place to stay, their rig to drive, countless answers to my stupid questions, suggestions on routes, campground ideas, personal messages with genuine concern for me, and on and on. They make the brand. Good luck in your search. Hope to meet you on the road.
Joe
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: TheGadgetGuru on March 13, 2016, 12:33:45 am
First, I trust you've done enough research to ascertain that these rigs depreciate like the F-4 Phantom glides without thrust. Also, you need to be fairly mechanically inclined or be a shrewd negotiator. Well, you need that anyway if you are buying at this end. Pakistani rug salesman level of skills in fact.
That said, it's your money. Buy it. Drive until you smell ---- and hear glass. You'll be fine. My first rig was 45' and I drove very timid and made very careful route plans. But, I was pretty sure I could do it based on my knowledge of who else did. That's how I got through basic training and many things in life. I've not driven near what most of these folks have driven in terms of miles, and am considering a CDL for safety and the experience. I don't know that you have to do that before you buy your rig though.
Also, I've owned a King Aire and a Foretravel. I'd pick the Foretravel any day. The construction really is better. Dealing directly with the manufacturer is refreshing. They are tremendous people. But this forum is worth it's weight in gold. These folks have offered a place to stay, their rig to drive, countless answers to my stupid questions, suggestions on routes, campground ideas, personal messages with genuine concern for me, and on and on. They make the brand. Good luck in your search. Hope to meet you on the road.
Joe
Thanks Joe! You brought up a good point about depreciation and to me that's why I would prefer to buy my last coach first. I've always operated under the philosophy that your home is not a financial investment...it's an investment the lifestyle of you and your family. With that said, I can't see why a coach would be any different. While I don't want to go hog wild, if I make the right decision upfront, I won't mind paying for quality as it will hopefully be the last coach I own...and I hope to own it for a very long time.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Michelle on March 13, 2016, 09:34:26 am
It's interesting to hear that some feel it's best to have a starter coach and others say, go for it. I guess that part of my desire of going all in, up front is that I'm seeking a coach that, other than including all the modern creature comforts of home and being designed for the way that I want to live life on the road
This last part is what's behind my thought process in starting with a gently used high quality coach that you can resell without too much "pain and suffering" ;) The driving is just one aspect. Yes, you want to be comfortable doing so, but you also spend a fair portion of your time using the coach and it can be worth debugging that aspect up front as well.
When you haven't been an RVer, it's going to be more difficult to get the floorplan/storage/amenities right for you on a new build. Not to say it can't be done, but in the price space you're looking, and especially if you're thinking IH which is totally custom, it might be worth the debug investment to figure out "do I prefer a mid bath or a rear bath? Do I need a bath and a half? When everyone's in their preferred seat, is the TV in a viewable location? Darn it, my favorite pasta pot that I inherited from Grandma is 10" tall and it won't fit in any of the cabinets. Hey, where do you store towels in this thing? Is there enough counter space to roll out pie dough for my famous recipe? Whoever tiled the shower with 1/2" mosaic obviously never had to scrub grout lines/I wish there were grout lines/mosaic tile to break up this monolith of solid surface.
Kind of like a dress rehearsal before the live performance ;)
Michelle
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Dave Cobb on March 13, 2016, 09:38:32 am
Too bad you did not get to keep that Country Coach on the Prevost chassis. What fun to do that segment there in NYC.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: TheGadgetGuru on March 13, 2016, 10:07:26 am
Do I need a bath and a half? When everyone's in their preferred seat, is the TV in a viewable location? Darn it, my favorite pasta pot that I inherited from Grandma is 10" tall and it won't fit in any of the cabinets. Hey, where do you store towels in this thing? Is there enough counter space to roll out pie dough for my famous recipe? Whoever tiled the shower with 1/2" mosaic obviously never had to scrub grout lines/I wish there were grout lines/mosaic tile to break up this monolith of solid surface.
Kind of like a dress rehearsal before the live performance ;)
Michelle
Great Points Michelle!
The first thought that popped into my head when reading your response was: Has any manufacturer, or even the RVIA, come up with some sort of online checklist of the common available features and feature options and allow the responses to provide some sort of recommendation of the layout that would best suit that specific buyer's needs? This could be an effective method to insure that rookies such as myself are not overlooking some layout features features and functions that seasoned users would take for granted.
Moving to the IH-45 specifically, maybe I'm missing something but in the available photos, I'm not seeing that the kitchen has a pull out cabinet that allows for additional counter space. Considering this feature is included on the Realm models, is this something that's available as an option on the IH? Or, is it one of those things that would add great cost as a custom feature?
My other questions about the IH are chassis related (and please remember, I'm coming from the newbie's point of view). It appears the IH chassis does not incorporate an active steering rear tag axle. Is this a feature that truly reduces turning radius and eases slow speed maneuverability or is it a nice gimmick? How important of a feature is this and is it something that if not included would steer a potential purchaser (pun intended) to a different model?
Also, I'm noticing in the promo videos outboard mounted airbags are promoted to be a notable upgrade that's exclusive to the IH-45. Is there a noticeable difference in ride and handling with this feature?
Finally, Foretravel is promoting its Premere Steer feature. Is this something that is comparable to Newmar's Comfort Drive System and does it assist in both low speed and highway driving situations?
Yes, I'm at the stage where I have more questions than answers and as my signature line states, we were all newbies at some point!
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Michelle on March 13, 2016, 10:35:38 am
Also, I'm noticing in the promo videos outboard mounted airbags are promoted to be a notable upgrade that's exclusive to the IH-45. Is there a noticeable difference in ride and handling with this feature?
While I can't answer the questions about active tag steering or "premier steer", I can tell you that, with the possible exception of the Realm (since it's not FT's chassis and I'm not sure what Spartan does), Foretravel has used outboard mounted airbags on all their coaches for years, going back into the 90's. There is definitely a difference in ride/handling compared to other brands with more inboard-mounted air bags. Less body roll, less sway. IFS on the newer coaches is a bit different up front, though, so FT added HWH's Active Air (option in some, standard in others, beginning somewhere after 2006) to address the ride differences with IFS.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Rudy on March 13, 2016, 10:41:25 am
Gadget,
For your info, if you get a new Newmar, you will get Oasis Hydronic Heating. A new Foretravel has Aqua Hot Hydronic heating. Both are good systems but a different approach to the heating of water and interior.
I can work on both systems. I prefer the Aqua Hot approach by a bunch. Not a deal killer but a point in Foretravel's corner.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Lucky1 on March 13, 2016, 11:27:18 am
Gadget,
I have a 2010 Nimbus. I think it drives way better than the King Aire. It does not have the comfort steer, nor the turning tag. The turning radius in those coaches with the turning tag are definitely shorter. But, you still won't be pulling into small parking lots.
The comfort steer is basically an ability to dial in how much power steering assist you want. On my King Aire, I dialed it in and never changed it. On my Foretravel, I have never felt the need. It's easy to drive. The much bigger question for me is how well does it track going down the road. My foretravel tracks like it is on rails. Both it and the 2005 I bought as a test (and it had almost 100,000 miles) did. Next is ride over road. Next was what does the coach tell me with random noises going down the road. In all of those instances, Foretravel was my pick. The most notable difference I see in ride is determined by Active Air ride. I think all those rigs you are evaluating have active air.
King Aire is a hell of a coach. One advantage you have with King Aire is some basic foundation of value based on NADA wholesale (don't even look at retail) book value. Newmar sells enough King Aires that some basic credible sales comp information exists. With Foretravel, it's way closer to looking into a crystal ball to determine what's fair market value. And if that gets done incorrectly, you might leave a nice lake cottage in value on the table.
I ultimately chose a 2010 after driving the Realm and the IH because I never got comfortable with being able to understand the depreciation curve. But, whatever it is, it's lots. If I buy the right used coach, I can spend my money on upgrades each year and come out light years ahead because 40-50% of the depreciation was paid for by the previous owners. I might change to an IH later but I'm finding a strong emotional attachment to this coach and the money I'm saving.
Happy to visit anytime. Message me if you'd like to visit offline.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Tim Fiedler on March 13, 2016, 11:39:36 am
Realm is built on a commercial high end Spartan Chassis, IH is built on Foretravel proprietary chassis. Each has each advantages. As for interior features, if you can dream it, they will do it. (Allow time, bring money!!) Great questions, as we discussed live Andy a trip from south FL to Meccadoches is in order soon. And maybe a "starter coach" as an option ( as many have suggested) would help you refine your requirements.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Michelle on March 13, 2016, 11:51:54 am
Member Jeff H moved from an Entegra (2015 Cornerstone, I believe) to a 2016 Realm and would be the best first-hand Realm feedback on the forum. Video overview of my new Realm (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=26795.0)
BTW, I see that many of the 2016 IH's on FT's site have passive steering tag, the 2017 show coach does not (nor do 2015). You could possibly test drive 2015 and a 2016 at FOT for an apples to apples comparison. The King Aire has the passive tag as well, I believe, as does the 2016 and up Essex. 2017 Entegra Cornerstone will have it (2016 does not). Newell has an active steering tag on their proprietary chassis.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: TheGadgetGuru on March 13, 2016, 12:03:26 pm
Realm is built on a commercial high end Spartan Chassis, IH is built on Foretravel proprietary chassis. Each has each advantages. As for interior features, if you can dream it, they will do it. (Allow time, bring money!!) Great questions, as we discussed live Andy a trip from south FL to Meccadoches is in order soon. And maybe a "starter coach" as an option ( as many have suggested) would help you refine your requirements.
Thanks Tim. I agree...a trip to Texas will most likely occur within the next month. Right now, I'm in my due diligence state and still learning which questions I need to ask!
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Carol & Scott on March 13, 2016, 12:03:55 pm
It seems to me the original topic- Driving a 45' MH is the easiest challenge for you to accomplish. Everything else you mention, chassis, tag, steering, layout are the difficult things to understand and consider, not to mention placing a personal value on them.
As Michelle has noted finding out what you need and works for you re: layout and the stuff mentioned above are personal choice which is why many of us have had multiple units from multiple manufacturers with different layouts. It takes time to discover what we want/need.
To address your question: Checklist. You have only view and research different units and you will see different check lists in "the flesh".
You are fortunate, or not, being able to consider a NEW motorhome for a first motorhome and as many have said, you can have built what you want but as others have said "A ten year old FT is better than a new SOB".
The questions that you are asking are ones we all ask ourselves and only you can answer by doing research, driving the different coaches and determining which features are important and are must haves as opposed to nice to have.
I think that you are in a unique position, and if I were you, I would make travel plans to visit a Prevost conversion company or two, Newmar and Foretravel and maybe Newell. Meet their people see their manufacturing processes and drive their coaches. Time permitting you could plan a two or three day visit at each facility and I am quite sure that each company would provide you with technical answers as well as time to meet with their interior designers to really see what you could build. For example: if Carol and I were having a coach built I would not be interested in power interior door or some of the fancy laminate interior materials that many High End coach builders use. We like less glitzy interiors and would design with that in mind however we are not able to build new, and are very happy with our Ol' Girl.
Again you are in a somewhat unique position in that you can purchase what you want the way you want it - especially at the price point you have in mind. Prevost, Newell, Foretravel and Newmar all make good coaches and each have their own identity and things that make them what they are.
Enjoy the journey and your learning experience. Good luck and have fun. :D
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Lucky1 on March 13, 2016, 12:10:33 pm
Thanks Tim. I agree...a trip to Texas will most likely occur within the next month. Right now, I'm in my due diligence state and still learning which questions I need to ask!
Andy, Speaking of due diligence, please don't forget to consider that most painful of all encounters...Murphy...as in Murphy's law. This law applies to motorcoaches in boat loads. It will try your patience and skills at the most inconvenient moments. But, it's alright, we all have survived these various and often painful encounters with Mr. Murphy. I say this because Foreforums is an antidote to Mr. Murphy, and so is the Foretravel Tech Support you get when you own a Foretravel. You will likely never find a better built coach with this kind of forum and technical support from its members and the factory.
BTW, have you visited beamalarms.com yet? It gets better...just visit to learn all there is to know about Foretravels new & old.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Lucky1 on March 13, 2016, 01:30:34 pm
Andy, Speaking of due diligence, please don't forget to consider that most painful of all encounters...Murphy...as in Murphy's law. This law applies to motorcoaches in boat loads. It will try your patience and skills at the most inconvenient moments. But, it's alright, we all have survived these various and often painful encounters with Mr. Murphy. I say this because Foreforums is an antidote to Mr. Murphy, and so is the Foretravel Tech Support you get when you own a Foretravel. You will likely never find a better built coach with this kind of forum and technical support from its members and the factory.
BTW, have you visited beamalarms.com yet? It gets better...jsut visit to learn all there is to know about Foretravels new & old.
We should start a new thread with favorite Murphy's Law RV story. I've got a few involving everything from black tank value failure to climbing over the engine to get in when the door mechanism failed. back to topic....
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: TheGadgetGuru on March 13, 2016, 02:06:50 pm
Thanks Tim. I agree...a trip to Texas will most likely occur within the next month. Right now, I'm in my due diligence state and still learning which questions I need to ask!
Easy way to fly is on American AL thru DFW into Tyler, TX (TYR) & rent a car at the airport, easy in & easy out, drive is about an hour and a half. Plenty of decent hotels & a couple of very nice B&B's to stay at. Check out TripAdvisor: Read Reviews, Compare Prices & Book (http://www.tripadvisor.com)
I'd spend a couple of days at Motorhomes of TX (they let you crawl thru as many as you like on the lot) + another day or two at Foretravel. Foretravel has several IH-45's in stock & you could probably get in a little test drive time...I think MOT also has one for sale right now....I'd go with a pre-owned no matter what, it'd take some serious work & $ to iron out all the "new" bugs, better to let someone else do it, IMHO.
As for driving the IH-45, it is quite a bit taller than many, but an extremely smooth & easy drive....we did all the maneuvering at the annual Ladies' Driving School: parking, backing into a tight spot, parking right up to a front barrier, winding our way thru set courses, highway driving, & it was amazingly easy to handle.
Happy travels & shopping and hope to see you down the road in a Foretravel one of these days! ^.^d
If you haven't seen the 2 main FT sites already: Luxury Pre-Owned Motorhome Dealer for Foretravel Newell Country Coach. (http://www.motorhomesoftexas.com) & Foretravel Motorcoach - Custom Handcrafted Luxury Since 1967 (http://www.foretravel.com)
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Miz Dani on March 13, 2016, 02:09:13 pm
So you have to unhook the towed to back up. So, what? One time in 5000 miles. Jeez Louise!! that ratio is 1/5000. Drive the coach as if you stole it. You aren't buying it to make a garage queen out of it, are you?
We just haven't figured out what exactly we want to tow and how (Lexus is 4 wheels up, Corvette hard to get on a trailer and full size truck on a trailer, not). Will figure it out when we're ready and.
Ya, I would love it to be our garage queen but we love using too much. This coach cost 16. Times more than our new truck in 1995. She's our BABY.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: squeezer on March 14, 2016, 06:04:46 pm
There are several factors that come into play in this type of decision. First and foremost dont assume a smaller coach is going to be easier to drive than a 45' Foretravel. Once you get used to the width and the driving position of a class A (Sitting ahead of the front axle) the overall length rarely comes into play. Yes there are times you will wish for a shorter coach but there are more times you will be glad you have the space. A smaller under powered coach with an off the shelf chassis is not going to be anywhere near as easy to drive as a Foretravel. Merging, passing, grade-ability come into play every time you release the parking brake... All of this is important but the most important factor is braking. Disk brakes and a retarder are the biggest safety features of these coaches and I would not own a Class A without them.
Depending on the depth of your pockets a well kept later model U320 will exceed all expectations in comfort and performance and if bough right will be in the flat part of the depreciation curve... If you can afford new by all means go for it as we need to keep up the supply of used high quality Foretravels for those of us who are in a bit lower tax bracket!!! ;-)
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: TheGadgetGuru on March 14, 2016, 10:24:17 pm
Thanks to all for the great input...it's greatly appreciated.
I think I may have learned why so few new owners purchase their last coach first, and that's simply because there's probably a few others out there like me who want to learn how to drive one and get a bit of operational training before making the new coach purchase. While there's a number of companies who are willing to train a new coach owner after they've made the purchase, I'm having a heck of a time trying to find a way to get my training prior to making the purchase. But, I'm a pretty stubborn guy and I don't give up easy! I did contact Foretravel and asked about this, but the salesman was quite adamant that they couldn't provide any training prior to purchase. So, if the Foretravel dealers are reading this post, please feel I was not provided solid information free to send me a PM.
I have to say that I was set on purchasing my last coach first and having it equipped for my lifestyle. Right now, I'm not so sure. I've gotten some pretty good advice that a starter coach may be the best way to go and to drive it for a year or so until I figure out if I want to go all in and if so, which features and layout will best suit my needs.
As the old Greyhound ads used to say, "Half the fun is getting there." If that's true, I must be having a blast!
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Carol & Scott on March 14, 2016, 11:52:17 pm
Ask lots of questions to motorhome owners. What do they like. What don't like. How they learned to drive..... Early on in our search I would ask owners in camp grounds that we visited these questions and many more. We found most folks are pleased to share their experiences and will show you around. You are learning and will continue to learn and along the way you will narrow your search. Whether it be learning to drive or what equipment you desire/require. :-D
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: John Haygarth on March 15, 2016, 12:28:24 am
OK I am going to go the opposite way to the general reply ( and this is NOT to say they are wrong). I believe a lot depends on whether the value of a high end product actually has any bearing on the decision or not? Said another way, if the cost is immaterial to the Buyer then I say do it and have fun learning. If it is a major purchase in ones life then yes maybe step back and re-evaluate the idea. It would be a nice thing to do, just go out and spend the money and have no worries about doing that, but most of the suggestions have come from people who maybe are not be able to have the potential of a major financial hit in a year or two if things do not work out! I definitly would not want it, but it would not be the end of the world I guess (close maybe!!). So this is my thought and I guess the only one that can answer this truethfully is "the Gadget Guy", so, over to you Sir. JohnH
ps if you want to come to BC you can drive my coach but you will have to imagine another 9 ft tied to the back of it!!
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on March 15, 2016, 07:29:34 am
Lots of Forum Folk down there in Florida, maybe you can get a ride-along or a test drive from one of them.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Miz Dani on March 15, 2016, 08:02:22 am
Hey Gadget Guy, I'm pretty far from you but if you got up this way, you could come see/test my coach out...she's only 36' though, & going into the shop 3/21 for the week then home for a week then off to several rallies 4/6....I still vote for getting to TX & seeing a whole lot more great coaches of all sizes at FOT & MOT. There are some other coaches around here you could see but we'd have to plan in advance.....snowbirds are getting ready to bail out soon....
Also, LazyDays in Tampa (right around the corner from where I keep my coach) has a pretty good (I hear) driving school & will let you drive one of theirs while at school, check out Motorhome, Luxury RV, Trailer & Fifth Wheel Sales & Service | Lazydays (http://www.lazydays.com) for details.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Peter & Beth on March 15, 2016, 08:48:10 am
Another thought is to just go to a dealer that has a couple of coaches in the size you want. Become "interested" in one and test drive it. That's what I did. And boy was I sold on the Foretravel! This thing drives like a Cadillac (when Cadillacs were built like Cadillacs)...
Thirty minutes later Beth and I took the plunge...13 years ago...and we still have our adopted "Forrest Foretravel". Right about now I know about 80% of what there is to know about Forrest...still learning...It's alooooong learning curve, modifications & repairs/upgrades.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: TheGadgetGuru on March 16, 2016, 10:01:18 am
Again, thanks to all who have chimed-in on this thread. Also, to those who have PM'd me and preferred to offer advice in a private manner.
I received an interesting PM overnight that centered around the topic that everyone has a different opinion of a starter coach...he was correct and there is no wrong answers on this topic. I thought I would share my response to his question and bring you up to date on my thoughts. The bottom line is that while I was dead set on getting my last coach first, possibly a lesser model that would allow me to become familiar with coach usage is something I'm now considering. Here's my response to the PM (I won't state who sent me the PM as there may have been a reason he wanted to keep it private and I'll respect that!).
You raise good questions and yes, our definitions are different. In my mind, if I choose to get less than what I would consider to be my ultimate coach, I would consider that to be a starter coach. Everyone has their own definition of a starter coach and when it comes to what is a starter coach to them, they are right. Everyone has has different definitions and it's based on a variety of factors.
In my mind, whether it's a new coach, a demo model or a used model in good working order and is priced less than $300K, it would be a starter coach for me. If I decide to go all-in, I'm looking at a model in the range of a new Realm, IH-45, King Aire or possibly a Newell. For my ultimate coach, not only would it include the latest is safety and tech features, I would have the ability to lay it out in the method that works best for my lifestyle and desired method of usage and travel.
I'm not seeking to live on a coach full time and my hope is to use it as a vacation home that can be relocated at will. For example, I live in Florida and to have it stored locally during the Winter gives me the ability to take short driving trips to spend a few days, a week or possibly longer at selected, desirable top tier campgrounds. When the humidity hits, I would like to reposition it to the Western USA and have the ability to move it between California, Colorado, Texas, Utah, etc. Touring the National Parks is not on my priority list as I crossed those off my bucket list many years ago. I would hope to use it where I would fly back and forth to it when I want to get to the coach for a getaway and change of pace and scenery.
My frustration lies in the fact that although I know I want to do this, I want to be realistic and part of that is to be fully trained and feel safe in driving as well as comfortable with basic maintenance tasks and feel comfortable with knowing I can handle a coach of this size PRIOR to purchase and to be confident when driving it off the lot for the first time. Heck, what would you think if motorcycle or boat manufacturers sold their largest models without making sure the new owner had the ability to handle it? Training after the sale is the method the RV industry uses and when it comes to a motor vehicle, that just doesn't seem a safe way to operate a vehicle of this size and weight. In most states, motorcycle riders need to have a training certificate and a license endorsement prior to making a purchase. Why isn't that the same for a 45' motor coach?
In terms of finding a reliable coach, I have no false notions that any model I select will be perfect. I know the industry is broken and manufacturers often deliver "pretty" models to new buyers that have multiple defects and can take a while to get everything to the state it should have been prior to leaving the factory. I have no issue calling and paying for service when needed as I don't want to spend my time working underneath a coach. I also would like to find a coach where service doesn't require very long wait times just to make an appointment. Maybe it's the R in RV that's confusing to me as these models are supposed to be for Recreational uses and I don't think that waiting in line for months for service is a fun thing to do!
For learning to drive and maintain a coach, while there are companies who will send a trainer to the owner after the point of purchase, nobody has a training program for new buyers. Yes, Lazy Days offers an overview program and that's a good start, but it seems not one single company has taken this type of program further and this is something that would be good for the entire industry.
Personally, I don't think that it's safe to have a salesperson teaching the new owner how to drive and a certified trainer should be in the mix. For example, for motorcycles, you can take the MSF class and learn to ride in a supervised and safe environment and get the proper license for legal operation prior to purchase. For MH's, no such program exists...at least, I haven't found it. The only thing I've found on larger coaches is to pay $2,200 per day for a 45' rental (plus fees) and another $450 per day for a trainer as well as their transportation and travel expenses. When you add it up, it's equivalent to a down payment on some early model pre owned coaches.
Because of the lack of training available, the governing body of this industry, the RVIA, has done, in my opinion a poor job of developing a new driver/owner program that would bring more people to the world of MH's. Yes, it's their job to do this as they are paid by the manufacturers to establish programs such as this. Instead, they are simply lobbying our Government and that's probably why the safety standards for these types of vehicles are so low. (That was my Editorial opinion).
As stated in the original PM, the poster stated slides first appeared in 1999. Maybe that's correct for Foretravel, but they first appeared a few years earlier. So I added...
One more point, the slides came out a bit earlier than 1999. Here's a video I produced when I was with NBC's Today Show and this appeared live on the air in 1996:
I hope my response doesn't come off as being brash, as I'm not that type of guy. But I've been looking at doing this for quite some time and I'm now at the stage of my life where I have the time and resources to do this. I did contact a salesperson at Foretravel and let them know that I was possibly interested in a custom designed IH-45, but before making that decision, I need a method to get training. I was told they provide that after the sale, but not before. It was kind of like W.C. Fields telling the child, "Get out of here kid, you're bothering me," and left a poor first impression.
So, to answer your original question, Yes, I agree with you, everyone has a different definition of a Starter Coach and a Last Coach. That's what makes America Great...we all can have opinions!
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: TulsaTrent on March 16, 2016, 06:05:04 pm
As stated in the original PM, the poster stated slides first appeared in 1999. Maybe that's correct for Foretravel, but they first appeared a few years earlier. So I added... One more point, the slides came out a bit earlier than 1999.
I am at a loss for words, but that has never stopped me before.
You have come to a forum, consisting primarily of owners of Foretravel moterhomes, and now you want to argue with us about when Foretravel started putting slides in their moterhomes? Foretravel was (admittedly) late in the addition of slides to their moterhome products. The first ones were introduced in 1999, and became more common in following years.
To support your argument (in response to a private message), you provide links to two videos from 1996, with an article about an RV (not a Foretravel) that had a slide.
Now that I have found the words, I am totally confused about your real intent in starting a dialog here.
Trent
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: John44 on March 16, 2016, 09:52:52 pm
One more thing that has not been mentioned is the 5000 mile rule,whether you rent,beg ,borrow or steal a coach you will have to drive it an average of 5000 miles to become comfortable.Also,if you walk into a Harley dealer and have a MC license they will sell you the biggest model.Next time you see a new biker watch his feet,if he has both feet sticking out 2 blocks before he stops he's one of the new owners.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Dave Cobb on March 16, 2016, 11:07:55 pm
There has been much written about new motorcycle owners without a clue, skills, or correct license taking delivery. The dealers will sell almost anyone, any hp, bike. If you have the money, you can buy the most expensive, fastest, or loudest bike you want to own. Yes the manufactures have supported the MSF system, and Harley split off to do it their way, on their own brand, on the smallest displacement bike they offer. Typically if you drop the bike in the final test, you fail the course. And the damage to the bike might be priced at less than $100. for a lever handle. I looked at a 90 day old Honda Goldwing, being sold, by a first time buyer, who somehow got it home but was selling as it was too big (only the largest and heaviest bike Honda sells). I bought a almost new BMW with 387 miles, and one tip over, being sold, too much bike. New it was over $25,000, bought and delivered to the garage by the helpful dealer.
With a long history in the boating, and yachting business/world, I have seen more than my share of new owners. The dealers did not do a thing to educate, the buyer, or protect the innocent around the new boat or owner. Back when Trumpy still built custom wood power yachts in Annapolis MD, a new owner, left the yard, to head for home waters. He destroyed the yacht, when he tried to cross the shoal, between the Lighthouse and the point. He was heard to say, "there should have been a sign or something to warn people". Note that the Thomas Point Light, was built in 1875, and is a structure with keepers home, and is 43' tall. It was built to help boaters in and out of Annapolis harbor. Youtube is full of boating videos, hours of watching, for those that care to see how well the public is uninformed. There are videos of professional skippers with boats stuck under bridges, tug boats under bridges, or run over by barges when the tug goes out of the channel and aground. Life is interesting.
There is a charter bus company down the street from my home, and every time I see the sign, "learn to drive our coaches", I both want to take the course and cringe at the thought of those that are turned loose on the roadways.
I do applaud anyone that takes on new to them adventures. May you always have tailwinds and smooth roads.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: John Haygarth on March 17, 2016, 12:05:16 am
Gadget Guru, I too am confused why the RVI industry does not have an affordable trial driving session that is paid for by people who are in the same boat as you. At least here in Canada you HAVE to have at least some training with air brakes and pass (in BC) 2 tests before you are allowed to drive an air braked vehicle. Why this is not required for a coach with hydr' brakes is beyond me, but at least it is a start compared to some areas were you "jump out of your car and into a coach???" FMCA should be the vehicle for this learning in my opinion but in reality FT and others that sell high end vehicles surely have the built in profit to at least allow you to drive a few hundred miles in one of their coaches to see!! If no one but FT or Newell does this I would think a buyer would lean towards one of them when a purchase is made?? This would be in my opinion a good way for FT to open up and get more sales if no one else does it. I think it is called "Public Relations" JohnH
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Michael & Jackie on March 18, 2016, 01:25:21 am
John, I am hesitant to say this is available for I may see the definition a bit differently than you pose, but because of his interest I have something of an answer. I offered him in pm that I would see what I could turn up. In that I found a fellow here in Nac that would do some training, even up to two days related to a purchase deal. I know that is different than just going out and getting yourself some training at a center, a class, but at least I find you can get help, hands on, from a dealer when buying. That may be available on another basis as well if anyone wanted.
Thanks John for ideas when you were here in Nac. I always learn from visitors such as you and in the past few weeks with other owners (Best, Abrams, Wittleder, Millers, Sichenzes, Campbells) who have been my recent continuing education. I hope I have repaid them too in experiences I could pass on.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: TheGadgetGuru on March 20, 2016, 04:57:21 pm
In that I found a fellow here in Nac that would do some training, even up to two days related to a purchase deal. I know that is different than just going out and getting yourself some training at a center, a class, but at least I find you can get help, hands on, from a dealer when buying.
The response from the folks here have been wonderful and allow me to say Thank You!
Over the next few weeks I'll be embarking on an adventure with the goals of getting behind the wheel and learning if this is something I want to pursue as well as if it makes sense to purchase my last coach first. During these trips I'll not only attempt to learn if I feel comfortable behind the wheel, but I hope to answer that big question: New or Pre-Owned? I'm still at the "I don't know what I don't know" stage and I hope this series of trips provides answers to the many questions that I don't even know to ask yet. Yeah, I'm big on attempting to do my homework!
The plan is to travel to various locations to experience, what is planned to be, a detailed level of training by professionals. I'm hesitant to offer details at this time as things are just now being coordinated and finalized...but the wheels are in motion. I will be happy to share what I learn when I return with the hope of assisting others who may be facing the same decisions and dilemma as I am at the moment. Yeah, it's a chicken and egg thing. What comes first, the training or the purchase? I realize this industry is focused on having the driver trained after the point of sale and maybe I'm the backwards one, but I'm simply attempting to learn good operational habits prior to making the purchasing decision. Maybe I'm old school, but when I was a teenager, I did take Drivers Ed prior to buying my first car.
I hope to make this adventure a positive first step into the coach world, but still feel that learning safe operational habits is the logical first step that should come before making the purchasing decision. I fully realize that to people who have been doing this for many years that a newbies apprehension may seem overcautious and that's okay. But since I'm a true rookie to this, I simply need to feel comfortable that I'm up for the challenges that come with coach ownership. I've received some great advice in this forum publicly, on the phone and via PM and I'm soaking up all the information like a sponge and hope to soon figure out which path is the right one for what I'm attempting to accomplish and deliver the lifestyle I'm seeking. While my attraction to the features, functions and designs Foretravel offers is what brought me to this site, I honestly can't say if this is the brand that I'll end up with, but I'm absolutely going to give Foretravel a very strong look and do much more than just kick a few tires.
Yes, it would be nice if organizations such as the manufacturer-supported RVIA had programs that provided some sort of organized orientation and educational program in coach operation and ownership, but from what I've learned, it appears they simply don't feel this is important. While I'm not going to tell them how to operate their business, for me to proceed, as stated, I need to make sure that I feel comfortable operating many the things involved with ownership as well as feel confident in handling a large coach prior to purchase.
Also as stated, the good news is that with the help of the folks on this site, things are looking positive at this moment. So again, Thank You!
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Mike Leary (RIP) on March 20, 2016, 05:24:40 pm
Maybe I'm old school, but when I was a teenager, I did take Drivers Ed prior to buying my first car. I fully realize that to people who have been doing this for many years that a newbies apprehension may seem overcautious and that's okay. But since I'm a true rookie to this, I simply need to feel comfortable that I'm up for the challenges that come with coach ownership. the good news is that with the help of the folks on this site, things are looking positive at this moment.
Yup, we've all been there: they seem too big for the road, you've got to plan for turns and about a hundred other things. That being said, for a select few of us, it's'' the way, the truth, and the light". I won't even tell the story about the PO of our first Airstream, suffice to say, he put traveling off too long. Now you have some options; new or used? I rather like the older "retro" coaches, but you might have different tastes & needs and you should be open to all that are available. I'm usually not this long-winded, but, bottom line......BUY A FORETRAVEL!
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Jeff & Sandy on March 20, 2016, 05:57:57 pm
I knew I wanted a motorhome. Once that decision was made we started looking on line and at dealerships. I just couldn't find one new or used that approached the standards we wanted. No pressboard, no wall paper, no plastic covered fixtures, no plastic toilet, etc. I'm an active member of another forum. A member there was the first to mention Foretravel. ((He is also a member here).
I spent a year lurking and learning before I started posting questions. A foretravel was what I wanted. It ticked off all the boxes for us. I kept a close eye on MOT, FOT and the classifieds here.
I had not driven or even seen a FT in person yet. I had never driving anything approaching that size. The only other camper I did pull was a Coleman pop-up. Spending time on this forum gave me the confidence to buy one.
Before I got serious I decided that Brett Wolfe was the guy for inspections and I wasn't going to settle for anyone else. I started looking seriously when Brett was in town and available. I was online one day and a post popped up about a well known, well cared for and loved '93 GV U300 may be available. As soon as I looked at the pictures I called MOT and put down a deposit pending an inspection.
I flew down to NAC the next week to meet Brett for the inspection. I will never forget the first time I walked up to the coach. The salesman laughed at my reaction and said "they look even bigger in person". I sat in the passenger seat during the test drive. I was scared to death. This thing was massive....long, wide, tall and heavy.
I did the deal and spent a couple of days at MOT having some work done. There were a few other forum members there at the same time. One kind soul sensed my fear and told me...all you have to do is put point your left knee at the lines on the left and point your right knee at the lines on the right. Easy. ;+)
After an hour driving lesson from MOT we began the 900 mile trip home. I've now driven about 4,000 miles and each time I feel more comfortable behind the wheel. For me, it was best just to jump without a parachute.
When we bought the GV we thought this would be our starter coach, that we would eventually move up to a 320. We've had our GV for almost a year. I cannot see any reason to 'trade up' to anything, ever. I love this coach and it's perfect for me.
I owe all of this to this forum. The knowledge base and willingness to share and help is just awesome.
New or used, Foretravel is the way to go. Good luck with your search and safe travels.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: stump on March 21, 2016, 12:52:00 pm
Another Plus to the GV Jeff is the, It's just cool factor! That the UniCoaches lack. :D
Just kidding UniCoach owners!
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Mike Leary (RIP) on March 21, 2016, 12:58:07 pm
Another Plus to the GV Jeff is the, It's just cool factor!
Plus +, they are easy to spot and toot the horns should you see one coming the other way b^.^d
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Michael & Jackie on March 22, 2016, 12:18:56 am
When I was asked about driver training, and reported a few replies back in this thread, that I found a place in Nac for the training, I did not disclose the option.
Anyway, as I had one other option, I thought.....ask two senior managers at MOT, would they help me help this fellow? I should not have been surprised, but they said sure, if they sell to someone, they have done and do this if requested.
A caution....allow time. I saw this happen, cutting time too short. IF someone makes arrangements for a dealer to provide operational training and, or driving training, be sure to allow serious time for those lessons. It may too quickly seem that is not hard, and so easy to say, "hey, I got this....I am ready to go". Try to allow plenty of time, trial runs.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Ecurb on March 22, 2016, 01:51:57 am
You're supposed to take drivers training? We drove 300 miles and test drove the coach. My wife sitting up in the co-captains chair sat there for a few miles, looked at me and said that this coach makes our old 32' SOB ride like a lawnmower, we are buying this one. "Yes Dear". Drove it a hundred miles and stayed at a C.O. E lake for the night. After we got home we decided to look at the big ditch in Arizona. While on the way we got snowed on for four days in Pagosa Springs Colo. My first lesson was snow removal from under the slide awning. Waited a few days and saw a clearing so we made a mad dash westward to the border of Arizona. Made it a about 2 hrs and it started snowing.....again. Second lesson was driving a 33,000 lb bread box on snow down the mountain.
Decided to visit Mesa verde natl park after leaving Pagosa Springs. Didn't have a toad so we just drove the motorhome down into and thru the park. Lesson three, how to park a coach on a 8%grade so you can look over the side of the hill. Left there and visited the Grand Canyon. We rented a a car in Flagstaff and drove it around canyon . Took it back to airport drop off and sw a sign that said Sedona Arizona. Hmmmm friends said that was the place to go see. We pass a sign that said no trucks over 50' allowed. Being old and stupid I told dear wife that we had a whole ten feet to spare so here we go toddling down 89A in a forty foot motorhome that we've only had a few weeks. Third lesson learned was how not to leave cargo doors attached to guard rails on 89A. It was a bright sunny Sunday on a major holiday so everyone and his bother was on the same road. Heavy traffic with 5 and 10 mile an hour hair pin turns. When we got through my wife said that it sure was pretty scenery. I could only take her word for it because the only thing a saw was the rear bumper on a Mazda in front of us. It took an hour for my white knuckles to return to their natural state.
The point being to this whole thing is, jump in it and drive like you stole it. Use a little more common sense than I have and you'll be ok. My only saving grace is that crazy people don't have enough sense to be scared....until later. You can do about anything until someone tells you that you can't.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: TheGadgetGuru on April 29, 2016, 12:04:12 pm
As my search for my first motorhome continues and while I'm still attempting to figure out the wisdom in buying my Last Coach First, I posted a new story on this topic at:
Gadget Guru Chapter 12: Shopping For A Motorhome - Is Pre-Owned Or New The... (http://www.gadgetguru.com/new-or-used-motorhome/)
Please return to this thread with your comments.
And, as a note to the best Mods in the free world, if this topic is not in the correct section, please feel free to place it in the proper area.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Peter & Beth on April 29, 2016, 05:55:33 pm
Andy, I read your update and I left with the feeling that you seem to not be 100% sure how you're going to use the motorhome. That is not good my friend. If you're not certain why and how you are going to enjoy this marvel of engineering, take as long as you need to figure this out with precision. If you don't, you will likely make a mistake in the features, layout, design, length, weight, and so on and so forth.
All the modern conveniences (read that : complexity) of a modern luxury motorhome are of no use if you don't need them or worse yet, have no use for them. So, save yourself a lot of hassle and figure out why you need to do this. Picture yourself planning and going to your next location, etc.
Hope this helps. As usual, there are no questions that should go unasked.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: TheGadgetGuru on April 30, 2016, 12:13:59 am
Andy, I read your update and I left with the feeling that you seem to not be 100% sure how you're going to use the motorhome. That is not good my friend. If you're not certain why and how you are going to enjoy this marvel of engineering, take as long as you need to figure this out with precision. If you don't, you will likely make a mistake in the features, layout, design, length, weight, and so on and so forth.
All the modern conveniences (read that : complexity) of a modern luxury motorhome are of no use if you don't need them or worse yet, have no use for them. So, save yourself a lot of hassle and figure out why you need to do this. Picture yourself planning and going to your next location, etc.
Hope this helps. As usual, there are no questions that should go unasked.
Thanks for adding to this thread as I could use all the input I can get!
I do have a usage plan and it's fairly simple...A vacation home. In fact, my plan is comparative to a yacht owner. While I enjoy my home and live in the Sunshine State, I would store it close to my area during the Winter and use to for relatively short trips and nice getaways. When the humidity kicks in, I would like to take a leisurely cross country trip, stopping for extended periods (a few days at a time), enjoy the trip and end up in Arizona or Nevada for a few months. During that period, I hope to fly back and forth possibly a week or so per month and explore the great West. Since I'm seeking a larger coach, I won't be visiting the National Parks and instead attempting to stay in Big Rig rated campgrounds. When the desert gets hot, I would relocate in Colorado to be close to family and do the same thing...fly in for a week or so and then leave it in a secure RV resort and fly back and forth each month or so.
Then, as cooler temps approach, relocate it back to Florida.
So, how's that for a plan?
Yes, I know it will most likely change with time...but I need to start somewhere!
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on April 30, 2016, 09:31:52 am
... I would like to take a leisurely cross country trip, stopping for extended periods (a few days at a time) ...
So, how's that for a plan? [/quote]
It will start. We know a fellow who spends winters (6 months or so) in Palm Springs, CA in his coach at an expensive Luxury RV Resort and is back this way once a month. If your needs require you to be somewhere and you have the resources then do it.
We estimate the total milage for a trip and divide by 50 to get the minimum number of days. Extended periods for us is at least two weeks. In every place you go, the obvious is there to see. But it takes some more time, just being there, to start finding the not so easily seen treasures. And there are so many to find.
When you (and most of us) first get a coach you want to go everywhere and see everything. Road trip. Drive by. And you have to work that out. And then (maybe it is because we are retired) the short drives and long stays thinking starts to kick in. You are where you are for as long as you are there. Immerse yourself and discover what is not easily seen. And the best part, take a day off once in a while. You deserve it.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Michelle on April 30, 2016, 09:51:24 am
We know a fellow who spends winters (6 months or so) in Palm Springs, CA in his coach at an expensive Luxury RV Resort and is back this way once a month. If your needs require you to be somewhere and you have the resources then do it.
We have forum members who now have a Prevost that do that - own a lot in Indio (Motorcoach Country Club) for the winter, fly from there for work during the winter, travel to cooler climates with the coach during the summer.
Everyone has their own personal usage plan. Some like to move frequently, some like to stay in one place for a season. Some like national parks, others like RV resorts. That's the beauty of RVing - there is no standard or right or wrong way to do it as long as you're enjoying yourselves.
Now Andy, I hope you're getting Lucy's input on the coach as well ;)
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: TheGadgetGuru on April 30, 2016, 10:09:29 am
Now Andy, I hope you're getting Lucy's input on the coach as well ;)
Yes, Lucy gets a big vote and her choice of seating areas!
(https://www.foreforums.com/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gadgetguru.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F04%2FIMG_0442.jpg&hash=f359ccc1ba8c21b96d7d3f392948c298" rel="cached" data-hash="f359ccc1ba8c21b96d7d3f392948c298" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.gadgetguru.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/IMG_0442.jpg)
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Roger & Susan in Home2 on April 30, 2016, 10:16:47 am
Look at all the gauges on the dash of that "coach"! Dash envy! And Michelle is correct ... The best plan is the one that works for you and that adapts to your changing needs. But you need a coach to start executing the plan.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Mike Leary (RIP) on April 30, 2016, 10:22:42 am
Look at all the gauges on the dash of that "coach"! Dash envy!
Wow! Ex-Aircraft driver?
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Tim Fiedler on April 30, 2016, 10:45:25 am
Nice! What airplane are you all in? Is it just you and Lucy on your travels?
I have a 2.5 year old Brittany - in NAC right now (drove over from Tampa this week). Had my dog flown in on AA in freight since I wanted someone to travel with - was only $191, didn't think that was so bad. They charged my Mom $125 for her tiny dog in a carrier under the seat in front of her. Way better in your own airplane, but I sold the fast airplane when I retired.
Keith (your MOT driving instructor) says HI - here you may be coming back to TX
Looking forward to your Newell visit post.
Tim
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Dave Head on April 30, 2016, 11:06:19 am
Tim is on his 3rd coach which still might be his last... I'm on my second for at least a few more years. I will probably end up with a 2001 42' DGFE for my last one. Starr surprised me over the 2007 Nimbus 42 at MOT - she said "I would live in that". I'm worried about the crazed finish on the 07 models. Its always something. Pluses for me are the updated dash and extended AC outlets toward the front. Minus is I still love my 95...
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Tim Fiedler on April 30, 2016, 11:29:04 am
Well said Dave.
Since my upgrades to date include (losing track of everything I have done) - new Queen sleeper replacing scissor couch, new main and bathroom flooring, dinette replacing J Lounge and reupholster pilot/copilot and valances last summer at FT. New triple hitch for future motorcycle lift. Every Xtreme mod except engine door, butI do have the one and only Xtreme exterior built in TV on a U series coach (to date).
8 new airbags and some remedial at MOT yesterday. (interesting my engine compartment insulation is first rate still, was surprised, and Keith R. said he is not seeing fuel line problems in 2000 coaches (yet) as a matter of course.)
New Chiliwhich material on entry steps and probably new bedroom carpeting Monday at Flanigan's FT shop.
Future - Recover dash, new silver leaf electronic dash, backsplash update, extend AC ducting forward, finish LED conversion, Solar and probably remove Propane for Induction and plus battery and pilot seat upgrade.
Yeah, probably my last coach. :-). Bunks in a 42 is attractive, but ALL my upgrades less than one year depreciation if I bought a 5 year old coach. with Bunks. Plus I would have that much more $$$ tied up in a coach, not working for me in the market. (Go Amazon!).
Always threatened to sell this to Dave Head, but he may not be young enough to wait me out. :-)
Saw Dave Metzgers Coach at MOT - yup, 36 foot single slide HOT ROD, very nice mods and impeccable maintenance. Great Paint and wonderful Cherry cabinets. Maybe re - upholster a couple of chairs to your taste (showing a bit of wear) - Andy - a PERFECT first coach and maybe becomes a lasting one.
BTW, the 2002 GV is nice, but money down on it, and two in line after with interest if that deal falls through. Did not get across street, but plan to see new facility on Monday. Very encouraging news on Mike Rodgers - they are looking for him back to work at MOT in late July August, and best news, fully recovered.
Sorry if I hijacked this thread.....
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: TheGadgetGuru on April 30, 2016, 04:21:06 pm
Nice! What airplane are you all in? Is it just you and Lucy on your travels?
This is a Cessna Conquest II 441 twin turbo. Nice plane! Cruising speed heading into the wind was 300 kt. With the wind at our tail around 370 kt. Seats seven comfortably plus two pilots. So, I brought Friends! This was during our trip to Miami, OK. Yeah, blog post coming soon!
(https://www.foreforums.com/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gadgetguru.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F04%2FIMG_1961-1.jpg&hash=292942392a0ac02fe621e80c05534aad" rel="cached" data-hash="292942392a0ac02fe621e80c05534aad" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.gadgetguru.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/IMG_1961-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Tim Fiedler on April 30, 2016, 04:37:11 pm
Conquest sweet turboprop - way faster than King Air - holding value VERY well. Better seats up front! And JetA cheap right now - quite an ouch for 10 yr checks and when you overhaul those turbines...
Let me know if you need a pilot....fixed wing or rotorcraft...
My favorite airplane was the twin commander (piston version) - loved the room - "as I told my partner - "it may be slow, but it burns a lot of gas" - huge space, comfort and carry a LOT in and out of short strips (I had 2400 feet at our house where we kept it (paved of course)). Boy, am I hijacking this thread....
Tim
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Dave Head on April 30, 2016, 05:54:12 pm
Absolutely LOVE shelties. Had two - they were smarter than me, that's for sure...
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: JuanHappicampa on April 30, 2016, 08:02:11 pm
Basically, the issue that I've extracted from this thread seems to be to shift the responsibility of training/licensing from the state or private enterprise to the manufacturer. There would be, which goes without saying, a shift in liability, if something were to go awry. Perhaps it's Andy's background that leaves me a bit of a skeptic, but, there seems to be a bit of a reporter in search of a story, more than a newbie in search of coach.
Who expects to be trained to ride a bike, captain a boat, pilot a plane, or drive a car at the point of sale? I'm confident that unofficially a sales manager would find a way to provide some level of familiarity and confidence to a newbie, but to expect them then to allow the liability to be shifted to them without an insurance carrier, could be a major misstep.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: TheGadgetGuru on April 30, 2016, 08:30:30 pm
Basically, the issue that I've extracted from this thread seems to be to shift the responsibility of training/licensing from the state or private enterprise to the manufacturer. There would be, which goes without saying, a shift in liability, if something were to go awry. Perhaps it's Andy's background that leaves me a bit of a skeptic, but, there seems to be a bit of a reporter in search of a story, more than a newbie in search of coach.
Who expects to be trained to ride a bike, captain a boat, pilot a plane, or drive a car at the point of sale? I'm confident that unofficially a sales manager would find a way to provide some level of familiarity and confidence to a newbie, but to expect them then to allow the liability to be shifted to them without an insurance carrier, could be a major misstep.
Yes and No. I have a long background as a reporter, but there's no mystery agenda on my part as I'm truly seeking to do something I've wanted to do for decades...explore the motorhome lifestyle. Here's a 20 year old video that shows I've been interested in this for quite some time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT2vrMvol5g
I'll add that the comparisons you provided (pilot a plane or driving a car) require licenses and pilots have to jump through hoops to maintain a license. In my State a Class A motorhome only requires a drivers license.
Not trying to sound like a reporter or become argumentative, but when you think about it, there's lobbying groups that fight for the motorhome companies, but I don't know of any that represent the motorhome owner. While that's an entirely different discussion, I'll be happy to give my two-cents in the appropriate thread.
Personally, I would like to find a better way to learn to handle a coach other than just having a day or two of training during delivery. I made quite a few phone calls and and logged some air miles in my quest and have found some willing instructors. So far I have four days of lessons under my belt. So, I'm making progress!
I'll make a guess and say that the seasoned coach owners would take comfort in knowing that new coach drivers underwent some sort of organized training and possibly a field test before getting behind the wheel and sharing the roadways with others.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: dhackney on April 30, 2016, 08:39:12 pm
Andy,
Thank you for sharing your coach journey via your blog, videos and posts here in the forum.
I see many echos of our multiple trips down this path, which we are currently cycling through again.
In the two videos I have watched (Foretravel and Newell) and the accompanying posts, I observe a high degree of interest and enthusiasm over components, finishes, floor plans, etc. In my experience and observations, these are typical of early-exposure buyers in the RV/coach world. We shared many of these same reactions our first time through the cycle.
However, there are very important differences in the quality of materials, construction methods, engineering decisions and resulting product durability, longevity and safety that lie underneath the seductive glitz of modern high-end coaches and top-of-the-line mass-produced RVs.
I encourage you to educate your viewers on the handling, ride and safety differences provided by the fundamental engineering and materials differences in the coaches in your video / blog post series. That includes between the products from each manufacturer such as Foretravel IH45 vs Foretravel Realm FS6, between the high-end coach manufacturers themselves and, especially, between this tier of products and those from the high-volume RV manufacturers.
In particular, there are significant safety and handling differences between a semi-monocoque chassis and a run-of-the-mill "box on two frame rails" product.
For more than a few of us, the chassis is why we're here owning, shopping for, or researching the non-FS6 Foretravels.
The reasons are important and, IMO, would be of interest to your audience.
My apologies if these factors were covered in content you have posted that I have not yet seen.
Thanks again for creating the content and sharing the story of your quest.
Doug
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: TheGadgetGuru on April 30, 2016, 08:48:11 pm
However, there are very important differences in the quality of materials, construction methods, engineering decisions and resulting product durability, longevity and safety that lie underneath the seductive glitz of modern high-end coaches and top-of-the-line mass-produced RVs.
I encourage you to educate your viewers on the handling, ride and safety differences provided by the fundamental engineering and materials differences in the coaches in your video / blog post series.
Very Good Point Doug! Thank You!
I'm in the "I don't know what I don't know" stage and once I gain first hand information, I do hope to share it with others. I will say that I'm attempting to focus my search on the brands that are putting as much emphasis on quality and safety as possible. However, in this day and age, it appears that so many people are comparing models on a "bang for the buck" basis and not focusing on the quality of materials and they methods they are assembled.
Now, don't get me started on the subject of the mysterious MSRP issues and expected discounts as that's a very confusing topic.
At this very moment, I'm attempting to learn more about the Realm. As we know, there's little if any information about this model online at this point. So, if anyone has input, I'm all ears!
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Michelle on April 30, 2016, 09:22:52 pm
At this very moment, I'm attempting to learn more about the Realm. As we know, there's little if any information about this model online at this point. So, if anyone has input, I'm all ears!
We have looked at them several times in our visits to MHSRV to look at several coach brands, including last Saturday and today. What questions might we have answers to?
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: TheGadgetGuru on April 30, 2016, 09:30:38 pm
We have looked at them several times in our visits to MHSRV to look at several coach brands, including last Saturday and today. What questions might we have answers to?
Thanks Michelle,
Starting with the basics, I've read the specs and it states the passive rear axle provides for a 7% reduction in turn radius, but there's no mention of the actual radius footage nor the front wheel cut.
On paper, the Realm seems like a great coach and now that Newmar has shifted away from the K3GT chassis, it seems that Foretravel has it all to themselves and that could be a very good thing for the Realm in the future.
The bunk floor plan may work for me and I hope to make it back to Nac in the near future to check out the closet space and to give it a closer look.
I'll ask what you thought of it when you went hands on with the Realm?
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Michelle on April 30, 2016, 10:29:30 pm
I'll ask what you thought of it when you went hands on with the Realm?
The floorplan that we liked best when the slides were open was a problem when slides were closed. Half-bath door hit the kitchen counter and you couldn't get any further back in the coach with the slides in (pocket door wouldn't open). There was significantly less overhead cabinet storage space than other coaches on a K3-based chassis (although the windows were larger) because there were no overhead cabinets in the front half of the coach. The pantry space was good, the fridge was one of the narrowest residential fridges we have seen in use. There was a pull-out section of the lower kitchen cabinetry that seemed very wobbly compared to a similar implementation in Newmar and Entegra. There was no soap or filtered water dispenser at the kitchen sink. The rear bath was the most nicely done we have seen, but the step up was a strange height - almost too low to notice it was there (I tripped both going up and down on several occasions. We found it extremely odd that the engine access hatch was grouted in place, including the bolts (no handles). You would have to saw out the grout to get to the top of the engine. Soft finishes were some of the nicest we've seen; tile patterns were too busy for our taste. There were significant blind spots in the cockpit due to the A and B pillars and a black-out design on the lower, leading edge of the driver's side window that really bothered us. Uncomfortable placement of the engine brake switches for Steve (seat all the way back, switches were still too far back), really problematic for me (seat moved significantly forward). The Comfort Drive knob was on the left side - intuitive for left handers, not so much for us righties. Lack of shoulder belts for driver and passenger is a DQ on any coach for us but that's a personal choice. Exterior bay heights are the best in the biz by about 1 to 1 1/2 inches) as a result of the K3GT, but front full-cross Joey bed is much narrower than other brands and the clearance below the center rails was no greater than a non-GT K3, possibly less due to equipment mounted there). There appears to be a sealing issue with the bay gaskets as there was evidence of streaking on the backside of several bay doors and one carpeted bay floor was so soaking wet you saw droplets splash up when you tapped it (two others were wet but not as much). Leveling jacks hung down lower in the stowed position (by several inches) than those on the other K3-equipped chassis we looked at. Be aware that you can get a passive turning tag on a K3 (Newmar Essex, King Aire, 2017 Entegra Cornerstone). Both Newmar and Entegra add additional chassis bracing (Newmar STAR, Entegra X-bridge) that approach the K3GT (likely why King Aire is now on K3 - just using Newmar STAR), just the bay heights will be an inch or so less high (as will the coach). If you are sensitive to such things, we picked up on some issues with the paint striping - irregular in places e.g. curves weren't smooth, some "jaggies" in the edges, etc. There is no screen door, a very limited number of windows actually open. It still has the Fore slides - truly flush on the exterior; the mechanism is different than that in our 2003. Lots of Silverleaf sensors, etc. throughout with a lot of integration. We did not look at basic engine maintenance serviceability since we couldn't figure out how to get the rear bay door open. Other Spartan K3 chassis we have looked at have had very good accessibility to chassis batteries, fuel filters, DEF tank, air dryer, governor, etc.
ETA Steve also pointed out a couple of things he noticed - the cross-bracing of the storage bays in the K3GT is welded just at the corners of the brace tubes since they terminate in the corners of the bay framing (so weld area securing the brace tubes was not that large). He wasn't as impressed as he was with the Newmar STAR fabrication. There were some smaller gauge split loom wiring runs meandering along the bottom of at least one of the storage bays, which was an odd place for them given they could be damaged easily. The bay door mechanism intruded into the storage space several inches. We couldn't get a couple of the bay doors open because they seemed hung up on something, not sure if it could be due to the door mechanism or not.. The dash panel was far better supported than in other recent Foretravels we have been in. You could press on it and it wouldn't give; others have had significant flex in them. The dash covering felt like a soft ultraleather-like material and would be questionable against abrasions, a dropped screwdriver, and pet toe nails. Another comment on the soft finishes on window surrounds, the quality of the workmanship was absolutely the best we have seen.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: TheGadgetGuru on April 30, 2016, 11:10:26 pm
Michelle,
Could you be a bit more specific?
Yeah, just kidding!
Wow! Wonderful information.
Thank You.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: TulsaTrent on May 01, 2016, 12:51:09 am
At this very moment, I'm attempting to learn more about the Realm. As we know, there's little if any information about this model online at this point. So, if anyone has input, I'm all ears!
Andy,
In late 2014, I toured the Foretravel factory. At the time they had an IH-45 and a Realm on the assembly line in very near the same stage of building. Most of the under the floor systems were installed and possibly the rough floor.
The differences were striking. I am not able to buy a new version of either, but the IH-45 was so much more impressive than the realm, that when I can afford a used one, the Realm will not even be a consideration. I don't remember any specific examples at the moment, but that was my impression at the time.
Trent
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: JuanHappicampa on May 02, 2016, 02:39:22 pm
Andy, excuse me if my post seemed cynical, it wasn't intended to be. I was just responding to the emphasis placed on instruction.
As a gadget guy, of course you'd be attracted to the cutting edge of the RV industry. Building a 2017 Foretravel IH would be closely equivalent to having your own Consumer Electronics Show on wheels. ;)
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: Mike Leary (RIP) on May 02, 2016, 02:59:40 pm
Quote from: JuanHappicampa link=msg=231425 date=14622143 Building a 2017 Foretravel IH would be closely equivalent to having your own Consumer Electronics Show on wheels. ;) [/quote
So? If one wants to be the "master of their domain" and have slides, I could consult on how to insert this little item on board.
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: TheGadgetGuru on May 02, 2016, 03:06:19 pm
Andy, excuse me if my post seemed cynical, it wasn't intended to be. I was just responding to the emphasis placed on instruction.
As a gadget guy, of course you'd be attracted to the cutting edge of the RV industry. Building a 2017 Foretravel IH would be closely equivalent to having your own Consumer Electronics Show on wheels. ;)
Agreed. However, there's some noteworthy technology innovations in a variety of coaches starting to surface on even lower priced coaches these days. While I haven't researched it as of yet, I'm to understand the Entegra Vega system is notworthy. I hope to get a demo of that one in the near future.
However, with some of the tech, if it's not well thought out or properly executed, sometimes it's easier to just reach a few feet and flip the light switch or adjust the volume!
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: TheGadgetGuru on May 02, 2016, 03:07:14 pm
[quote author=JuanHappicampa link=msg=231425 date=14622143 Building a 2017 Foretravel IH would be closely equivalent to having your own Consumer Electronics Show on wheels. ;)
So? If one wants to be the "master of their domain" and have slides, I could consult on how to insert this little item on board.
As they said in the movie Jaws, "We're gonna need a bigger boat! Or...something like that!
Title: Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach
Post by: JuanHappicampa on May 03, 2016, 12:15:41 am
The price point of the Entegra's is attractive but you are limited to a few floor plans. If your first coach is to be your last you may want to design the last coach first. Entegra doesn't provide that option, which Foretravel, Newell, and the Provost platforms do.
What Florida residents should keep in mind is that the best 45ft coach is the one that's parked. With 20 million residents and 100 million visitors, the roads aren't inviting. ;)