I've had my coach parked in my driveway going on two weeks plugged into AC. I went in there today and noticed the level panel was flashing red on the air icon and the compressor was running but at a lower decibel volume then I've heard before. Didn't seem to be pumping air. I went out and checked the airbags and all were deflated. Do I maybe have a bad compressor or does the engine need to be run periodically?
I level my coach and then turn the system off, and it stays level for weeks.
Goldbehen -
Welcome to the forum. :D
You have a bunch of questions there and I am sure that you will get lot's of places to look.
For a start you can consider these.....
Do you have air in your tanks?
Do you have an Air switch on the left panel of the Driver's seat? What position is it in - On or Off?
How long has your Aux. Comp. been running? Does it stop running, if so how long until it starts again?
When close to your Aux Comp do you hear any hissing/air loss sounds. Do you hear any hissing noises as you walk around the coach especially near the air bags?
What procedure did you use to level your Coach?
I am sure many more comments will be forthcoming.
Good luck.
My x Foretravel dealer mechanic fixed my air leaks four years ago.
Never moves after leveling and turning the coach fully off.
The procedure I follow is, I park with the engine still running. I hit the air button twice and the auto leveling does its thing. I'm on level ground so it takes less then a minute.I shut the motor off and that's it. I've been in or near it and heard it dump air and the compressor come on. Tonight the right bottom yellow light was lit,the air light was flashing red and the compressor engine was running but it didn't sound like the compressor part was kicking on. It could have been running for a while since I haven't been inside the coach for a couple days. When I was last in it all was well. so this happened over the last couple of days. I believe the air bags are original.Thanks for the quick responses.
If you have an air compressor at home you can plug a double male fitting where the air chuck is for hooking up an air hose. That way you can fill the air tanks without the engine noise and listen for leaks.
Sent you a PM.
1. The procedure you follow leaves the HWH system in "Auto Level" mode. That is fine - no problem.
2. One corner (or side, or end) of your coach is "sagging" while parked, due to a
leak (or leaks) somewhere in the system.
3. In "Auto Level" mode, every 30 minutes, the leveling system checks the status of the coach.
4. If one corner (or side, or end) is low, the system attempts to correct by
releasing air from the opposite corner (or side, or end). This is the "dumping" sound you hear.
5. When the coach reaches a position where the system cannot achieve level by
releasing air, it will attempt to
add air.
6. The system tries to add air by running the aux air compressor. This is why you hear the compressor motor running.
7. If running the compressor does not cause the coach to achieve level, the red "AIR" light should start flashing, and the "EXCESS SLOPE" light should be on, in addition to one or two yellow "Level Sensing" lights.
8. The aux compressor will continue to run, trying to achieve a level condition, until it either succeeds, or you turn the system off.
9. If the aux compressor is running, but cannot build pressure, then you have another leak. Most likely suspect is the pressure release solenoid on the bottom of the air dryer canister, which is attached to the aux compressor. This is a NO (normally open) valve which should
close when the compressor is running. If it is stuck open (very common), then the compressor cannot build pressure.
10. First, fix the leak at the aux compressor, then the system will be able to keep the coach level, and it will be happy.
11. Then, figure out what is causing one corner (or side, or end) to drop, and fix that. Then you will be happy.
http://www.hwhcorp.com/ml11148.pdf
http://www.hwhcorp.com/ml20635.pdf
Technical Help - HWH (http://beamalarm.com/foretravel-links/hwh.html)
Just finished a conversation with Scott who gave me some good direction. Tomorrow I'll start the diagnostic process and see what I come up with. In the meantime I can't say enough about how valuable this site has been. Thanks again!
Andy
Just spent some time on the phone chatting with godbehen and discussed many of the things that Chuck and Jeannie wrote, although they wrote it much better than I spoke.
His coach was sitting in his driveway plugged in and lost air pressure in his air bags and his aux. comp turned on as well as lights on his HWH control panel.
When he gets an opportunity in the next day or two he will energize his leveling system, wait for the Aux. Comp. to start and start listening/feeling for leaks starting with the aux. compressor itself then move on to the air bags. If the Aux. Comp. does not inflate the air bags soon I asked him to start his engine so the engine air compressor would start and fill the air tank in the front of his coach. I did advise that his aux. comp. produces much less air volume than his engine compressor. Once air has filled his tank then sit the engine off and again listen/feel for leaks.
He said he would report back.
I couldn't help but remembering how helpless I felt when confronted with my first few coach issues.
We do have a great group here. ;D
That compressor should only run a very short time. Continuos running will burn them out. Leaks are the cause, and I have burnt up a couple before I realized that was the issue. MOT just finished a search mission over three days finding most of my leaks. Compressor comes on very occasionally and runs maybe 30 seconds and shuts off.
If it changed sound is is probably toast from over heating.
Others smarter than I on what the pump inflates can chime in, but that was my experience. Googled the part number and manufacturer, and bought them for about $250 each. The company also makes a rebuild kit for about half the cost of the pump.
FWIW, Keith Risch at MOT says most of the leaks, if big ones seem to be connections close to the pump. Maybe vibrations?
I have found the 12 volt air compressors do not provide enough volume, so I replaced mine with a 120VAC air compressor. AC power is provided by the inverter when boon docking or shore power via a duplex receptacle near the air compressor. I installed a 12v dc /120VAC solenoid which provides AC power to compressor when the HWH demands air (same as with 12v compressor). Now the volume of air supplied is almost ten times higher and the compressor cost is about $125 (half what a good 12v compressor costs). I also installed a manual switch and use this compressor for filling tires.
Couple of questions Wyatt;
Is this the type compressor? Portable Tire Ball Pool Toys Infiltrator 120V Car Bikes Flat Air Pump... (http://www.ebay.com/itm/272165755250)
Did you plumb the solenoid valve into the already existent pressure switch?
Well I started the engine to fill the air tanks and inflate the air bags to travel height. Since we'll be away over the weekend without the coach I want to see if it holds air without the auto leveler engaged. Walking around and listening at all the wheel wells I didn't hear any air leaking. My compressor is located behind the inverter and not easy to get to. When I get back, if there's no sign of leaking, I'll try the auto level and see if the compressors working. I did see a glass cylinder on the bottom of the compressor. Didn't see anything in the bottom.looked like an empty bell jar. I guess I'll have to crawl in from the other side to get access and a better look.
If memory serves me the older unihomes came with 110 volt compressors. But no where near the battery and inverter capacity.
My 12 volt only comes on with an up signal from the hwh panel.
Do you have an air dryer in that circuit.,...
This topic brings me to think I have never had that compressor since owning the coach in auto level as this coach stays for weeks as I leave it!
I do know the compressor works as the odd time I have to do a slight manual change and can hear it run but as all say it does take a while to make much change in leveling,but hey, what's the rush??
JohnH
You might consider pulling the fuse for the compressor so if it starts while you are gone and doesn't stop it will not over heat and destroy its self. There should be an inline fuse on the 12 volt power wire going to the aux comp - red or black wire and the fuse holder is probably about the size of a square 1/2 dollar. The fuse is an automotive type with two spades. The cap will pull off then you can pull the fuse. FWIW
Aux compressor fuse, fridge not cooling on propane when underway (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=17757.msg119694#msg119694)
A drawing of the compressor assembly is in the above link.
That clear glass bowl is probably where desiccant material goes, but can't be sure with out a pic. The desiccant material is supposed to keep moisture out of the air system produced by the Aux Comp. There is also a solenoid that "pops" when the aux comp shuts off and relieves pressure in that side of the system and is mounted on the bottom of the glass bell bowl.
My guess is that some kind soul on the forum will correct any mis statement I have made.
Have a great weekend. :D
John H. - You are my hero. Wish my system was as tight as yours. ;D
Agree that compressor will self destruct, ask me how I know......
Simple solution is to cut the red wire where it is very accessible. When you go back, bring some crimp on terminals - I put a male/female spade type in mine, came in handy when I replaced the compressor from failure due to overheating.....
I also plumbed a inexpensive air gauge into the system so I could easily see air pressure, cut in and cut out pressures
The original aux compressor seemed anemic to me. When I was stranded by the side of the highway in Canada awhile back, no amount of running the aux compressor would raise up the rear. I was forced to work with almost zero clearance to do the air dryer bypass out of improvised parts. I have since replaced the aux compressor with an ARB twin compressor system that will fairly quickly raise the whole coach high enough to block the frame with 12" square tubes. It is 12V, but not cheap. I am okay with that...
Don
Doesn't the engine compressor make enough air to raise the coach to put the blocks in?
Don had complete loss of system air pressure due to air dryer malfunction.
Does the auxiliary air compressor bypass the air system of the coach? I wondered why there was a portable air compressor in one of the storage bays when I bought my Foretravel, seemed a waste so I stored it in my shop.
You use their aux air to keep up the level system on your coach. It runs very seldom but on a coach with slides it us used to inflate and deflate the bladders.
lots of ARB compressors out there
Google (http://www.google.com/?client=safari#q=ARB+twin+compressor+system&tbm=shop)
which one did you get?
Check your air system schematic (if you have one). The 12 volt aux air compressor output (on non-slide coaches) is routed directly to the 6-pack manifolds and height control valves. It is only intended to
maintain the level condition of the coach over extended time periods, so it is
not a high volume pump. If everything in the air system is tight, like in John H's coach for instance, then the aux compressor may
never come on. On most coaches, however, after sitting several days (with HWH in Auto Level mode) you may hear the compressor run momentarily several times a day. This is perfectly normal - the system is working correctly, and all is well in the world.
Coaches with slides are plumbed differently, and the aux compressor has additional functions.
When the engine air compressor won't build air pressure (mine wouldn't get above 30psi when the air dryer failed), the aux compressor can (if it has enough volume and can run long enough without over heating) can put air in the air springs which have check valves to keep them from leaking through the failed air dryer. If have an portableA/C powered compressor that has enough volume and psi, along with a male to male fitting, you could use the service air line to add air to the wet tank which would then supply the front and rear air tanks and thus put air in the bags to raise the coach.
Don
I was told at MOT only difference in coach with slides is six pump also keeps slide bladder(s) inflated. Not sure but at some point I think the factory went to 115v pump as standard
Tim,
I got the ARB CKMTA12. It is packaged in a couple of variants like a portable with a case or in 24vdc version. There is also one that had just one of these compressors, but obviously doesn't have the CFM of the twin version. Here is a picture of the unit installed on the forward wall of the storage compartment after I first put it in before doing the attendant cable management.
http://store.arbusa.com/ARB-On-Board-High-Performance-12-Volt-Twin-Air-Compressor-CKMTA12-P21341C9.aspx
Tim:
I put in this compressor from ExtremeAire, with similar specs to Don's, it has worked well. I added a 2 gallon "wet" tank. I can air up the entire coach before starting the engine when leaving a campground early.
ExtremeAire Magnum Compressor (https://www.extremeoutback.com/product/14/ExtremeAire+Magnum+12+Volt+Compressor++Part%23+007-222.html)
(http://www.foreforums.com/MGalleryItem.php?id=3039)
Nice!!!
$%89.xx from a lot of places - $517.xx here - plus they make a 3/4HP one for those not inclined to go 80 amps draw of the Magnum 1.5 HP one
KMW Performance - Air Suspension, Bags, Cylinders, Struts (http://www.kmwperformance.com/products/aircompressors)
You have a later coach than mine, so it is probably different, but similar in many aspects. I use the same procedure that you use to level, except I hit the off button after it is level, the coach will stay level if there are no leaks in the leveling system (valves, air lines, fittings, air bags or air springs for the correct term). If there is a leak the coach will not stay level. The factory supplied aux compressor can handle a very minor leak to keep the coach level, it is not very good at doing anything else. When auto level is left on it sometimes releases air when a person moves from one side of the coach to the other side, then has to refill when you move again. That is why I turn it off, but if I had a minor leak I would leave it on. The aux compressor will shut off on my coach after 30 min of continuous running and will not come back on until the system is cycled off and on at the control panel.
Edit: If you are on level ground it is okay to dump all the air and let the suspension sit on the stops. The wheels will contact the top of the wheel well, but the weight of the coach is really still supported by the suspension system, it just looks like the coach is resting on the wheels. However to find out if you have a leak, don't dump the air. It does sound like you have a leak/s though.
2nd edit: When checking for leaks, don't forget the 2 exhaust ports on the six packs.
Edit: If you are on level ground it is okay to dump all the air and let the suspension sit on the stops. The wheels will contact the top of the wheel well, but the weight of the coach is really still supported by the suspension system, it just looks like the coach is resting on the wheels. However to find out if you have a leak, don't dump the air. It does sound like you have a leak/s though.
2nd edit: When checking for leaks, don't forget the 2 exhaust ports on the six packs.
So, where we park our coach is very close to level already. I'm just wondering how un level in can rest at without any damage to the fridge happening. We just leave the refrigerator and the stove pilot light on ( mostly cause I forget to shut it off). Can I / should I be letting it rest on the "stops" so that the air bags get a rest along with the other air system stuff getting as rest too. Or. Is it like most other stuff, better on and exercised than off and dormant.
I never really catch the 12 volt compressor running to keep coach level , if left on.
Refer to your fridge manual for guidance on "How level is level enough?"
http://www.hwhcorp.com/ml20635.pdf Page M140.026A (24SEP99), on the subject of "Automatic Air Leveling" says,
"Pressing the AIR button one time turns the system on. The AIR LEVEL light will be on steady. The "TRAVEL" light will be out. The four red WARNING lights will be on and one or two yellow LEVEL lights may be on.
DO NOT dump all the air from the air bags at this time. Allow the system to level the vehicle from travel height.Press the air button a second time. The AIR LEVEL light will start flashing and the system will start leveling the vehicle."
HWH seems to believe it is better to leave pressure in the bags. You will undoubtably get differing opinions from Forum members. Some like to dump the air bags
before leveling, in order to keep the entry steps as close to the ground as possible.
Personally, I think it is better to keep at least
some pressure in the bags when parked for long periods. It only takes about 10 or 15 psi for them to
appear fully inflated. Seems to me better for them to retain their "normal" shape, as opposed to being totally deflated and flabby. But it's your coach, so do what makes you happy.
I was not suggesting that the coach should be unlevel when the refrigerator is on. You should read the manual for your refrigerator about how unlevel it can be. My refrigerator is mounted on the driver side and fore and aft is more critical than side to side. Also I do not believe that there is any reason to give the air system a rest or to exercise it. It's easier to get in and out of the coach when it is low, but also easier to hit your head on the outside mirror. Do what you think is best.
Hi Robert,
From what I have heard in the past, it is OK to park off level up to 5 degrees and it is not supposed to hurt the absorption refrigerator boiler of refrigerators made in the last +/-15 years. By the way the boiler tubes are arranged in a zig-zag pattern it would seem the greater danger is from being off level in the forward-backward direction. For peace of mind, obviously it is better always to be level when the coach is not moving.
The Paul Unmack at ARPrv | ARP Control | RV Refrigerator | Dometic Recall | Norcold Recall | RV... (http://www.arprv.com) sells an economical controller that senses higher boiler temperatures. If parked off level, it will shut down your refrigerator before it causes boiler tube damage from over heating.
Jim
Robert and others,
Warning...I stand corrected...the maximum slope allowed for absorption refrigerators is
degrees and even less in hot weather.
Jim
The fresh fridges don't care anymore: As Dometic says, "as long as one is comfortable moving around the coach, the fridge is fine" Even so, we level as best we can, but no bubble level, as in the old days.
Mike,
According to Paul Unmack of www.arprv.com...you still need to pay attention to being off level for Norcold and Dometic absorption refrigerators.l. If anybody should know, he should.
Better safe than sorry!
Jim
did find this on ARB compressors
(https://www.foreforums.com/imagecache.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dieselpowerproducts.com%2FImages%2FARB%2520Chart.+GIF&hash=4da8a931f84c2e017b968720025f5ad0" rel="cached" data-hash="4da8a931f84c2e017b968720025f5ad0" data-warn="External image, click here to view original" data-url="http://www.dieselpowerproducts.com/Images/ARB%20Chart. GIF) (http://store.arbusa.com/Assets/PDF/compressorTechnicalSpecifications.pdf)
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: James Frerichsfrerichs@rcom-ne.com>
Date: Sun, May 22, 2016 at 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: [ForeForums] Do air bags level coach for extended periods without running the engine?
To: ForeForums foreforums@foreforums.com>
Mike,
According to Paul Unmack of www.arprv.com...you still need to pay attention to being off level for Norcold and Dometic absorption refrigerators.l. If anybody should know, he should.
Better safe than sorry!
Jim
Wow, in my correction I posted everything but the important number of three (3) degrees that you is considered safe to be off level.
Jim