Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Discussions => Topic started by: Sven and Kristi on June 25, 2016, 04:13:00 pm
Title: Bought the coach
Post by: Sven and Kristi on June 25, 2016, 04:13:00 pm
We just returned from Iowa, having bought the 2000 U320 with mid-entry and ISM engine. Our first stop was to Sapp Bros. in Omaha where we bought new Michelin "X Line Energy" tires. Unfortunately, the black and gray water valves leaked, so we couldn't use the plumbing on the way back. Also, the transmission cooling fan didn't work, so we had to watch the temps. Not a fun trip, but we like the coach and were impressed with the power. I'll post a photo once I learn how to attach it here. Sven
Title: Re: Bought the coach
Post by: wolfe10 on June 25, 2016, 05:00:49 pm
Congratulations.
A LOT of good bones in that one.
Work out the few issues, do a complete fluids change (unless you have records of recent services) and start enjoying the coach.
Title: Re: Bought the coach
Post by: Caflashbob on June 25, 2016, 05:49:54 pm
We just returned from Iowa, having bought the 2000 U320 with mid-entry and ISM engine. Our first stop was to Sapp Bros. in Omaha where we bought new Michelin "X Line Energy" tires. Unfortunately, the black and gray water valves leaked, so we couldn't use the plumbing on the way back. Also, the transmission cooling fan didn't work, so we had to watch the temps. Not a fun trip, but we like the coach and were impressed with the power. I'll post a photo once I learn how to attach it here. Sven
I may be incorrect but the trans cooling radiator is in front of the engine radiator. Twin hydraulically driven fans cool to the system.
Trans radiator, charge air cooler, then engine coolant radiators are the assembly.
On the other side(street) is the dash air condenser and its fan behind it.
Trans gauge should move especially in hot weather and when using the retarder.
Not like a car. May show up to 250 on long downgrades with heavy retarder use. Buzzer will come on.
Last time my buzzer came on it was at the bottom of the grapevine north of Los Angeles and on purpose I wanted to test the retarder and warning buzzer. Buzzer came on at the bottom of the grade and after hitting flat ground it shut off within two miles.
Perfect.
Engine and trans gauges will come up 20 or more degrees in hard use. Nothing's wrong. Keep driving.
Where did you find your center entry? Like hens teeth. What floorplan?
Put your info in your signature please
Title: Re: Bought the coach
Post by: Sven and Kristi on June 25, 2016, 08:56:52 pm
"I may be incorrect but the trans cooling radiator is in front of the engine radiator. Twin hydraulically driven fans cool to the system.
Trans radiator, charge air cooler, then engine coolant radiators are the assembly."
You are right Bob. I'm used to the dash air condenser being up front, closer to the cab. Usually when you have the trans. cooler and radiator next to each other, they have similar readings. When I inspected the exterior of the coach, the radiator looked fine. Because of the very low clearance I was unable to get under the coach at the time. On close inspection of the trans. cooler today, I can see that the fins are in bad shape and the unit may need to be replaced. Ouch.
The normal operating temperature of the transmission, according to Allison, is 140-220. On our trip, the trans. temp spiked over 230, which is unacceptable and will degrade the fluid. I may have to replace the cooler.
I read that the regional Foretravel rep. is in Escondido, but the phone number I have is no longer current. Any leads on where I should go to have this problem remedied?
Title: Re: Bought the coach
Post by: craneman on June 25, 2016, 09:06:25 pm
I hope someone replies on this as I only see a fuel cooler then CAC. and maybe something before the radiator maybe hyd. cooler. My trans cools with a heat exchanger coming off the return water of the radiator.
Title: Re: Bought the coach
Post by: wolfe10 on June 25, 2016, 09:09:10 pm
The normal operating temperature of the transmission, according to Allison, is 140-220. On our trip, the trans. temp spiked over 230, which is unacceptable and will degrade the fluid. I may have to replace the cooler.
Sven,
Under what conditions did the ATF get to 230 degrees and for how long? If this was after prolonged transmission retarder use, downshift the transmission, raising engine RPM toward the upper end of its safe range. This will add to braking and more importantly, turn the water pump and therefore speed heat dissipation.
The only other time the Allison should heat up is in slow stop and start driving (torque converter slip). If stopped for more than 30 or so seconds, slip it into neutral.
Title: Re: Bought the coach
Post by: Caflashbob on June 25, 2016, 10:38:00 pm
"I may be incorrect but the trans cooling radiator is in front of the engine radiator. Twin hydraulically driven fans cool to the system.
Trans radiator, charge air cooler, then engine coolant radiators are the assembly."
You are right Bob. I'm used to the dash air condenser being up front, closer to the cab. Usually when you have the trans. cooler and radiator next to each other, they have similar readings. When I inspected the exterior of the coach, the radiator looked fine. Because of the very low clearance I was unable to get under the coach at the time. On close inspection of the trans. cooler today, I can see that the fins are in bad shape and the unit may need to be replaced. Ouch.
You need a silverleaf setup to verify the dash gauges readings before you do anything.
My 97 in normal city driving trans temp is in the 190's.
Continious 230 or above will not burn trans fluid. 300 for an hour will.
Voltage variations and grounds alter the readings. You are at the start of a long process.
Start by verifing the readings
The normal operating temperature of the transmission, according to Allison, is 140-220. On our trip, the trans. temp spiked over 230, which is unacceptable and will degrade the fluid. I may have to replace the cooler.
I read that the regional Foretravel rep. is in Escondido, but the phone number I have is no longer current. Any leads on where I should go to have this problem remedied?
Title: Re: Bought the coach
Post by: Sven and Kristi on June 26, 2016, 01:38:27 am
I had been monitoring the critical temps, etc. using the Silverleaf software set up on my laptop on the dash, since I don't trust 16 year old analog gauges. In fact, the transmission fluid gauge does not read above 200. The RV "wants" to climb hills at 1300-1500 RPMs, so I manually step down the gears so that it is around 2000, for reasons you mentioned, Brett. I suspected that using the retarder would create more heat, due to heat of friction (I'm guessing it is similar to a torque converter) and I was correct in that. I found that the temp jumped rapidly from 227 to 234. When it got over 220, I started to look for a place to pull over. I'm guessing that I was in the 230+ range for less than 30 seconds. I will get a better look at the transmission cooler tomorrow.
Title: Re: Bought the coach
Post by: John S on June 26, 2016, 07:47:18 am
My trans cooler is a tube like cooler before the radiator. I had to replace mine last summer
Title: Re: Bought the coach
Post by: Sven and Kristi on June 26, 2016, 09:15:17 am
My trans cooler is a tube like cooler before the radiator. I had to replace mine last summer
John, what did it cost to have the cooler replaced? I think I'm headed in that direction.
Title: Re: Bought the coach
Post by: Sven and Kristi on June 26, 2016, 09:24:28 am
Brett, the temps were good during normal (level) cruising and did not go up significantly on small hills. Southbound Hwy 15 just north of Mesquite, NV and south of Provo, there are some long grades where it became a problem, with ambient temps. being around 100 degrees. Closer to the coast, from Temecula CA toward Escondido (just north of San Diego) there are some long grades, but cooler temps, so it did well.
I got a better look at the cooler, next to the fans and it didn't look good. The fins had a lot of corrosion and I was able to break them loose with my finger. The passages between fins appeared to be pretty much blocked. I think I will need to replace the cooler. :D
Title: Re: Bought the coach
Post by: John S on June 26, 2016, 09:29:40 am
I bought my trans cooler from FT it was a large tube structure like an oversized muffler. It was a a couple grand I think but I also had the radiator replaced and it was the same price I think.
Title: Re: Bought the coach
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on June 26, 2016, 09:36:00 am
I bought my trans cooler from FT it was a large tube structure like an oversized muffler. It was a a couple grand I think but I also had the radiator replaced and it was the same price I think.
Was it leaking internally? Heat exchangers like our transmissions use shouldn't plug up.
Title: Re: Bought the coach
Post by: Caflashbob on June 26, 2016, 12:27:38 pm
I had been monitoring the critical temps, etc. using the Silverleaf software set up on my laptop on the dash, since I don't trust 16 year old analog gauges. In fact, the transmission fluid gauge does not read above 200. The RV "wants" to climb hills at 1300-1500 RPMs, so I manually step down the gears so that it is around 2000, for reasons you mentioned, Brett. I suspected that using the retarder would create more heat, due to heat of friction (I'm guessing it is similar to a torque converter) and I was correct in that. I found that the temp jumped rapidly from 227 to 234. When it got over 220, I started to look for a place to pull over. I'm guessing that I was in the 230+ range for less than 30 seconds. I will get a better look at the transmission cooler tomorrow.
Absolutely normal. Nothing is major wrong. Had garbage truck fleet owners mention his 169 trucks ran 250 trans temp continiously.
Takes 300 for an hour to break down non synthetic trans oil.
Made to be used. Drive it.
Countless conversations with cautious Rv owners when a sales managed a Foretravel factory store in the late 80's about engine and trans temps.
We were surrounded by desert and mountains and it was uphill to leave town.
Title: Re: Bought the coach
Post by: John S on June 26, 2016, 12:35:46 pm
Mine was not leaking but it had a plug from metal slag that came in front of the the cooling tubes blocking about 30 percent of the cooling ability. Also it depends on where the temp is taken as to max temps. If it is in the sump then it is 250 and if it is at the retarder you can go up to 300 but not for a long time. Also synthetic runs cooler and sheds heat faster.