Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Tech Talk => Topic started by: Sven and Kristi on August 15, 2016, 06:41:08 pm
Title: Replacing Kool-matic with Fantastic Fan
Post by: Sven and Kristi on August 15, 2016, 06:41:08 pm
I've run into an unexpected problem while changing out my kitchen Kool-matic fan with a Fantastic Fan. Before installing the new fan, I connected the two positive leads to the black wire on new fan and white to negative and it doesn't work. Old fan did not work either while mounted. I bench tested both fans against a car battery, using test leads and they both worked fine. All the fuses under the bed are good and the "salesman switch" was on. I tried different combinations with the wiring and did adjust both thermostats (the Fantastic Fan as well as the Kool matic) to no effect. I'm guessing that the old thermostat or the wiring to it is the problem. Has anyone else encountered this problem? I'd like to by-pass the old thermostat, but was hoping others might have encountered this issue. If I do the by-pass, I would need to get to the wiring behind the thermostat. I'd like to avoid removing the microwave. I have a mid entry with Kool-matic thermostat mounted on upper cabinet adjacent to the door next to the microwave. I appreciate any help.
Title: Re: Replacing Kool-matic with Fantastic Fan
Post by: TulsaTrent on August 15, 2016, 08:20:42 pm
I don't know about the fans, but on the clearance/marker lights, white is +12 VDC; black is ground. Other places, green is ground and white is +12 VDC (but maybe not everywhere?).
Trent
Title: Re: Replacing Kool-matic with Fantastic Fan
Post by: lgshoup on August 15, 2016, 08:27:23 pm
What are you doing with the Kool o Matic?
Title: Re: Replacing Kool-matic with Fantastic Fan
Post by: Sven and Kristi on August 15, 2016, 09:47:31 pm
I checked the voltage using my multi meter and wasn't getting anything. Regarding the Kool-matic, I don't have any plan for it.
Title: Re: Replacing Kool-matic with Fantastic Fan
Post by: stump on August 15, 2016, 10:26:07 pm
If Larry passes i would be intersted in your old Kool O matic,for a spare.
Title: Re: Replacing Kool-matic with Fantastic Fan
Post by: Old Knucklehead on August 15, 2016, 11:08:05 pm
X3! I'm always looking for Kool-o-Matic parts! Good luck w/ yer Vent.
Title: Re: Replacing Kool-matic with Fantastic Fan
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on August 16, 2016, 09:12:42 am
If I do the by-pass, I would need to get to the wiring behind the thermostat. I'd like to avoid removing the microwave.
You don't have 12 volt in the wires going to the old thermostat (you did verify that, right?). You've checked all the usual suspects (fuses, etc). You don't need the old thermostat. Removing the microwave is a BIG PITA. My instinctual response to that situation would be to remove the old thermostat, cover up the hole, and run a new 12 volt cable to the new fan from some nearby 12 volt source. You might have to get creative with the routing of the new wire, but you should be able to keep it out of sight. After watching two experienced remodel techs at FOT struggle for over an hour replacing our old unit, I'd rather get a root canal than R&R the microwave...but that's just me.
Title: Re: Replacing Kool-matic with Fantastic Fan
Post by: Sven and Kristi on August 16, 2016, 10:08:10 am
I will check the DC breakers in the basement. As for 12v getting to the old thermostat, how would I check that without getting access to the wires from behind (reason for removing the microwave. I'm fine with bypassing the thermostat, since I have one in the new fan, but locating a DC wire and splicing into the circuit can be a big problem; I haven't seen many wires with some slack.
Title: Re: Replacing Kool-matic with Fantastic Fan
Post by: craneman on August 16, 2016, 10:16:11 am
I will check the DC breakers in the basement. As for 12v getting to the old thermostat, how would I check that without getting access to the wires from behind (reason for removing the microwave. I'm fine with bypassing the thermostat, since I have one in the new fan, but locating a DC wire and splicing into the circuit can be a big problem; I haven't seen many wires with some slack.
Take the thermostat cover off. The wires must be accessible in order to change out the thermostat without having to remove the microwave. Check the voltage at the terminals
Title: Re: Replacing Kool-matic with Fantastic Fan
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on August 16, 2016, 06:14:19 pm
Sven,
You must have a rare coach! I don't see a mid-entry U320 listed in the 2000 model year floor plans at beamalarm.com. Congratulations!
I assume your Kool-O-Matic fan is/was located in the kitchen area, probably above your stove and microwave. I went out and looked at our coach, which has that same general configuration. If I needed a new 12 volt power lead to go the the kitchen vent fan cutout, I would take it off the hot wire and ground wire feeding the 12 volt light directly over the kitchen sink. The double wire could run through the overhead cabinets until directly in line with the fan cutout. You could drill a hole in the side of the fan cutout, horizontally through the ceiling foam, until you are above the cabinet ceiling. That would only be about 4-5 inches in our coach. Then punch straight up through the cabinet ceiling to intercept this hole. Run your power/ground wire up into the cabinet ceiling hole and over until it comes out the side of the fan cutout. Then hook up to the new fan.
Takes me longer to describe than it would take to do. To tap into the hot and ground wires at the light fixture, you might be tempted to use a "vampire" crimp-on splicing connection. See photo below. I know I have used these things for years on cars and motorcycles, had pretty good luck with them, and thought they were great. I have recently been introduced to a better solution: the Posi-Tap. Posi-Tap- No Crimp Tap (http://www.posi-products.com/posiplug.html) OR, you could use "Old School" solder and heat-shrink tubing...your choice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N64p6ndlTQ8
Title: Re: Replacing Kool-matic with Fantastic Fan
Post by: lgshoup on August 16, 2016, 06:22:59 pm
I don't want the Kool o Matic, I was just interested. Didn't want it thrown away but I have a spare in storage. Have at it guys ^.^d
Title: Re: Replacing Kool-matic with Fantastic Fan
Post by: Caflashbob on August 16, 2016, 06:31:42 pm
I will check the DC breakers in the basement. As for 12v getting to the old thermostat, how would I check that without getting access to the wires from behind (reason for removing the microwave. I'm fine with bypassing the thermostat, since I have one in the new fan, but locating a DC wire and splicing into the circuit can be a big problem; I haven't seen many wires with some slack.
As we have a center entry I wonder if your coach has a ce number is on the sidewall like ours has?
Title: Re: Replacing Kool-matic with Fantastic Fan
Post by: gootie on August 16, 2016, 07:11:18 pm
That Kool matic draws a ton more than the typical 3 speed bathroom fan(name escapes me). My koolmatic still works including thermostat. I have had to do some plastic surgery on inside cover
Title: Re: Replacing Kool-matic with Fantastic Fan
Post by: Barry & Cindy on August 16, 2016, 11:18:42 pm
Assume Kool O Matic power is fuse protected in the 12-volt fuse panel on the front of the bed.
Title: Re: Replacing Kool-matic with Fantastic Fan
Post by: Caflashbob on August 17, 2016, 01:50:02 am
Fantastic fan?
Title: Re: Replacing Kool-matic with Fantastic Fan
Post by: Barry & Cindy on August 17, 2016, 09:28:00 am
Google knows all: Welcome to Fan-Tastic Vent! (http://www.fantasticvent.com/)
Title: Re: Replacing Kool-matic with Fantastic Fan
Post by: Sven and Kristi on August 17, 2016, 09:50:48 am
You must have a rare coach! I don't see a mid-entry U320 listed in the 2000 model year floor plans at beamalarm.com. Congratulations!
I assume your Kool-O-Matic fan is/was located in the kitchen area, probably above your stove and microwave. I went out and looked at our coach, which has that same general configuration. If I needed a new 12 volt power lead to go the the kitchen vent fan cutout, I would take it off the hot wire and ground wire feeding the 12 volt light directly over the kitchen sink. The double wire could run through the overhead cabinets until directly in line with the fan cutout. You could drill a hole in the side of the fan cutout, horizontally through the ceiling foam, until you are above the cabinet ceiling. That would only be about 4-5 inches in our coach. Then punch straight up through the cabinet ceiling to intercept this hole. Run your power/ground wire up into the cabinet ceiling hole and over until it comes out the side of the fan cutout. Then hook up to the new fan.
Takes me longer to describe than it would take to do. To tap into the hot and ground wires at the light fixture, you might be tempted to use a "vampire" crimp-on splicing connection. See photo below. I know I have used these things for years on cars and motorcycles, had pretty good luck with them, and thought they were great. I have recently been introduced to a better solution: the Posi-Tap. Posi-Tap- No Crimp Tap (http://www.posi-products.com/posiplug.html) OR, you could use "Old School" solder and heat-shrink tubing...your choice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N64p6ndlTQ8
The posi-tap is new to me, but looks like a great product. It solves the issue of not being able to pull enough slack to do a solder splice. The problem with connecting to an existing kitchen light wire is that it would be on the same switch the light is on (fan would work as long as the light is on).
Take the thermostat cover off. The wires must be accessible in order to change out the thermostat without having to remove the microwave. Check the voltage at the terminals
I will check this again. My problem is having enough slack in the wire to connect to a new thermostat. It would be the first choice (assuming the problem is the thermostat), since it would cover the old holes.
Title: Re: Replacing Kool-matic with Fantastic Fan
Post by: Sven and Kristi on August 17, 2016, 10:01:27 am
Out of curiosity, how do you prevent heat/cooling loss with the Kool-matic? The Fantastic vent has a lid that can be closed and they make square pillows that can be placed into the opening when it isn't being used.
Title: Re: Replacing Kool-matic with Fantastic Fan
Post by: craneman on August 17, 2016, 10:03:55 am
Out of curiosity, how do you prevent heat/cooling loss with the Kool-matic? The Fantastic vent has a lid that can be closed and they make square pillows that can be placed into the opening when it isn't being used.
Shutters and plastic cover
Title: Re: Replacing Kool-matic with Fantastic Fan
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on August 17, 2016, 10:05:03 am
Out of curiosity, how do you prevent heat/cooling loss with the Kool-matic?
A plastic cover was supplied that slides into tracks on the louvered face plate. These covers are now getting VERY brittle due to age, and if you still have one, you must be extremely gentle when installing and removing it. Ours is still intact (knock on wood).
Photo taken before we replaced the fridge and microwave.
Title: Re: Replacing Kool-matic with Fantastic Fan
Post by: Sven and Kristi on August 17, 2016, 10:15:11 am
A plastic cover was supplied that slides into tracks on the louvered face plate. These covers are now getting VERY brittle due to age, and if you still have one, you must be extremely gentle when installing and removing it. Ours is still intact (knock on wood).
Photo taken before we replaced the fridge and microwave.
Ours is metal, is noisy and doesn't look like it belongs in an RV.
Title: Re: Replacing Kool-matic with Fantastic Fan
Post by: Caflashbob on August 17, 2016, 11:11:31 am
In our coach's string of identifying letters and numbers I came across the CE 27 part. My understanding is that is Foretravels numbering for how many center entry coaches have been made.
Where does the "CE 27" occur in your model number?
Reading the Vehicle Identification Number (http://beamalarm.com/Documents/vehicle_identification_number.html)
Title: Re: Replacing Kool-matic with Fantastic Fan
Post by: Caflashbob on August 17, 2016, 06:54:25 pm
On our coaches sidewall next to the drivers seat is the VIN number and on the next line below it the Foretravel identification numbers.
In our coach's string of identifying letters and numbers I came across the CE 27 part.
My understanding is that is Foretravels numbering for how many center entry coaches have been made.
Just wondering if they had continued that with your coach?
At the end of the model number is an "E29" I could not find a "CE" I am aware that this was a custom build for a customer, but many of our coaches are. Thanks for the suggestion regarding the cabinet light. I connected to the wires at the switch to the under cabinet lights which allow me to by pass the Kool matic thermostat - which I will keep, since it covers the holes in the cabinet. Sven
Title: Re: Replacing Kool-matic with Fantastic Fan
Post by: Caflashbob on August 17, 2016, 11:21:22 pm
Apparently Foretravel stopped marking the center entry's?
Although yours maybe be a 500 hp drivetrain indication. Ours has a "c" in front on the number.
Who knows. Unless I call Triana....
Title: Re: Replacing Kool-matic with Fantastic Fan
Post by: TulsaTrent on August 18, 2016, 07:41:43 am
My guess is that the C goes with the U320, as is U320C. The E27 would then be the engine/transmission code.
Remember, this is an onageristic estimate on my part. :)
Trent
Title: Re: Replacing Kool-matic with Fantastic Fan
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on August 18, 2016, 08:02:15 am
I was going to leave a comment on the inner cover for the Kool O Matic but I'm not sure if this thread is on that subject anymore??
It has migrated, but since I found a solution, it isn't really that important now. I appreciate all the comments. We didn't have a plastic cover, only the metal one, which rattled.