Started removing torque rods to check bushings,well worn and in need of replacement.Checked prices and went with
Foretravel parts.My coach has 5 rods at 4 per rod and price was under $100.You need a 1 1/2 inch socket and wrench and a good
impact.Will get parts next week in meantime will be repainting rods.
Not sure which exact parts you are replacing?
What got you to check?
Mike grimes when I asked him said he had not sold a lot of suspension parts.
In case anyone else is (like me) wondering what a "torque rod" is, here is a thread that clears up the mystery:
Trailing Arm Service (aka: Torque Tubes) (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=26720.msg215944#msg215944)
What is the mileage on your coach? This has not been a commonly discussed subject on the Forum. Thanks for bringing it up!
Knowledge Is Power! ^.^d
217k ,I would say the rubber is cracked/hard from time but wallowed out from the mileage.
Excuse me, but is this "torque rod" deal just on the 40 footers, or is it something I need to be concerned with?
No. If you'll read through the thread I linked above, you'll see why. 8)
@John44,
Bob asked (above) what prompted you to check the bushings. Was it a steering/tracking problem? Were you able to twist the rods, by hand or with a pipe wrench, as described by Kenhat in the thread I linked above?
After disassembly, did you find any wear on the other parts, such as the sleeve or the bolt at the end of each rod? It looks like the sleeve rotates around the bolt as the rod moves. I would imagine this bolt starts out with some grease on it, but after 200K miles how much is left?
Great. One more thing to add to my "Take A Look At It When I Get A ROUND TUIT" list.
I think very few people actually wear the bushings out. But good to know they are inexpensive to replace!
I remember asking at the unihome introduction in October 1987 about the bushing setup.
I remember Triana handing me a pinkish/red polyurethane bushing and end washers and a bolt.
I thought the bolt had a zirc fitting on it?
No center sleeve that I remember.
Units 4528 and up were changed from whatever was before.
May have had multiple changes before and after?
Only have one apart so far,the nuts and bolts are reusable,the sleeve I cleaned up on the wire wheel.On my worst one I had a
few thousanths play when I wiggled it by hand.Also where the round end of the rod made contact with the bracket you could
see rust so I knew it was moving and metal on metal was rubbing.The nut and bolt is the same style as the shocks so the nut is
boo-koo tight til the last fine thread.
I would tend to not reuse the nut.
So you are just doing one end of the coach? I just crawled under the front of ours, and there are 5 rods there, plus (I assume, but I didn't look) another 5 at the rear end, so 10 rods total. 4 bushings per rod = 40 bushings ($200?) to redo both front and rear.
I think I'll wait on that project until I see or feel
some sign of trouble or wear in those components. So far, I've never had any complaints about the steering, tracking, handling, or ride on our coach.
It must be 1 bushing set (sold in pairs) per rod?
If you google "Hutch RBT201" the first hit shows one bushing for $7.59; about half the price that Ken reported.
RBT201 HUTCH TORQ ROD BUSHING - Best Deal Springs Inc. (http://bestdealsprings.com/shop/rbt201-hutch-torq-rod-bushing/)
Now in this post Trailing Arm Service (aka: Torque Tubes) (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=26720.msg215944#msg215944) Caflashbob posted a Foretravel parts diagram that shows to flanged bushings per end. So FT changed the bushing design at some point. If you look at the second page which lists the parts in a table the right hand column shows "start unit"; which we refer to as build number. When I was at Country Coach they tracked changes the same way - not by model year like we think.
I
assume that is what is fitted to the rods in our coach. I can see what looks like a rubber "flange" at each end of the tubular rod end. The rubber "flange" appears to provide a separator between the rod end and the mounting bracket. It
looks like my rods would have the exact setup shown in Bob's diagram. But this is just supposition, since I've never had one apart.
The parts from Foretravel are the 2 part bushings,they are beefier on the sides,all the ones I looked at on line were one piece.
I think the 2 part ones will be easier to install then the one piece.
Chuck,
The unit start for the flange bearings is 4528, which is after your coach. So I would assume you have the Hutch RBT201 bushing.
But notice the arm itself dates back to 3575, so I would think you could use either since the arms (and fasteners for that matter) didn't change.
I too see on my 1991 (3861) the same washers between the arms and mounts but that might be just another part used with a RBT201.
I checked my torque rods and they seem pretty tight- that washer doesn't seem to let them move much.
My coach did not have the washers.
Well, I was totally wrong in what I assumed. I went out and took a closer look this morning. The black thing at each end of the tubular rod end, that I thought was part of the bushing, is actually just a flat washer or spacer. It is made of plastic of some kind - not metal. I can freely rotate this washer on several of the rod ends. SO, it appears John(Fitz) is correct, and the OEM bushings in my torque rods are in fact a single piece, like the Hutch RBT201 linked above. See photos:
Chuck,what I have in mine is exactly what those diagrams show,where you have the washer I have the end of the bushing.Thats
why I did not order the bushings on line as you need something on the end.Maybe you can get the diagram of your system
from foretravel.I did look at the specs on the one piece on line and they did not jive with the spacer piece.
According to the PDF picture I posted the bushing has what appears to be the washer as part of its bushing
Update on bushings,got the 3 lower rear rods off,only one had play I could check while grabbing rod (a few thousanths play).
On all 3 the rubber bushings were well worn and were wallowed out.
In 10k miles of trips I did not notice any vibration or problem,will find out when I get all bushings in if coach rides any better.
Update on bushings,tried installing the torque rod from the top of the differential to the frame.Got one bolt in but the other side
is about a half inch short.All 3 rods are the same length and part number.I marked the rods to put the same one back in same
spot.
Will try and jack one side of rear axle up tomorrow and see what happens,also will check with Foretravel tech services.Maybe
will raise/lower one side of coach to get it to line up.Any ideas.
Was the rod in a bind when you removed it, or did the bolts come out easily? It sounds like something might have shifted slightly when you removed the rod. I have one of those cheap Harbor Freight hydraulic ram kits with the various cylinders that can be used to push or move stuff. Something like that would be very handy in your situation where you need to "adjust" the position of parts to get bolt holes to line up.
Portable Hydraulic Body Puller Kit (http://www.harborfreight.com/4-ton-heavy-duty-portable-hydraulic-equipment-kit-44899.html)
I may have figured out the problem,coach is in driveway and one side is lower than the other,so I think that is why its in a bind.
Will go at it in morning.Thanks
Use a longer bolt
Can you use a come-along to move the axle?
The bolt length is not the problem - he can't get the bolt holes in the bracket and in one end of the rod to line up.
You can put a hydraulic bottle jack on the H frame near the rear air spring on the side where the trailing arm holes don't line up with the mounting points. When the jack pushes down on the rear of the H frame, it will rotate the carrier so that the trailing link gets pushed towards the front of the coach. I used this technique when I needed to push the bulkhead joint together while doing my bulkhead/basement rebuild. Think of the H frame as a sort of teeter totter. You could do the same thing if you could add air to just one of a pair of air springs (or let air out of just one of a pair) at each end of the axle. In case it isn't self explanatory, what I am calling the H frame is the steel framing that carries the axle and has the lower attachment points for the air springs and shocks, and is a unique property of the 8 outboard air spring design that was invented by Foretravel. There is corresponding framing above that is part of the structure of the coach chassis and is where the bottle jack can push against.
Don
Finally finished the 3 rear bottom torque rods,will post pictures of old bushings.Had to cut 2 bolts twice to remove one rod.Had
to use ratchet strap to reassemble.Anyone attempting this please contact me will walk you thru procedure.Got all parts from
Foretravel.1/2 " impact and sawzall a must.
Drove to Foretravel and back with the 3 bottom rear tube bushings installed seemed a little tighter.
Picked up a few spare bushings and bolts,starting the front now,did mention what I was doing to James Triana,said it would
probably track better.
Finished 3 more front rod bushing sets,had to raise and lower coach to get bolts back in,rods move quite a bit as coach goes up
and down,you can really check the play on the rod when one end is loose,4 more to go,2 rear 2 front.
Finished all front torque rods,will take coach to Disney World after Thanksgiving should be tighter in front as all old bushings were
worn.Will do the 2 rear uppers in Jan.
Glad to hear your project worked out. Now the road test. Let us know
Looks like another project for my list. I replaced original rubber stabilizer bar and steering bushings on my '96 Safari with polypropylene ones and it really tightened up the suspension. Did Foretravel use rubber or synthetic material?
Looks like rubber,is black and shiney,seems like a cross between rubber and polypropylene.A impact and 1 1/2 inch wrench and
sockets a must.
Update on front torque rod bushings after 2500 miles,coach did ride a little tighter and less side swaying.Different coaches with
different amounts of wear on the bushings will probably have different results.To the posters who have gotton their steering box
redone and the front bearing set and still think they have a sway or looseness,it may be the torque rods.Anytime you can replace
worn rubber on a moving part it has to help.Bushings cost about $15 per rod and there are 10 rods on the coach.I used 4 new
bolt and spacer and nut sets but that will vary on your coach.
Look at the bush end to note any movement (a little is normal.) If the torque tube can be moved because the bushing is falling to pieces, it time for some work. Rent a commercial bushing tool if access to an arbor is out of the question. Always replace the nut and bolt (do not grease the sleeve or bolt.)
BTW: I have very seldom needed to replace torque rod bushings unless you are cursing on some very rough roads.
Logging trucks or oil field gear comes to mind.
Check w/MOOG for replacement bushing (they make them for everybody.)
Call them direct... pc
Don't think these are the ones you are used to,you do not need any kind of bushing tool and I reused most of the old nuts and
bolts and spacers,(you had to use a impact to the last thread coming and going)I cleaned mine with a 1" flapper wheel and
painted the spacer and bolt and coated with anti seize.I would say the bushings on these old coaches fail mostly from rubber
being 20 years old.Don't forget the rods move somewhat as the airbags go up and down.When I was looking for parts I did see
some other styles but stuck with the 2 piece from Foretravel , they have the lip on the outer part that fits between the frame
and the spacer,so you tighten until the bolt stops at the spacer and that leaves the washer looking lip between the frame and
torque rod.
I'm doing things in lieu attorneys that will pin your butt to the floor if you use anything but new hardware for legal reasons.
For personal use, I have no issues with old fasteners.. pc