Foretravel Owners' Forum

I am centering in on year 2000 to 2002 single slide U320 36 foot,
and year 2003 to 2004 U320 38 foot 2 slide coaches.

We desire full body paint, no decals. 

 Our next coach will probably be our last coach, as we keep rigs a long time and do upgrades on them. I will make some assumptions that may or may not be true - for comments.

We tend to camp in rural campgrounds, with narrow campground roads and trees/rocks - thus the "smaller" coaches.

What is the major difference between the CM57o fuel system used until 2001 and the CM875 from 2002 on?  Is one better or more easily maintained?  I also "think" I prefer a pre 2004 so no EGR system on the ISM (plus I have read the 2000 - 2003 coaches were considered good build years?).

If we consider the more common 40 foot coaches, what would be the impact on tight campground roads for maneuvering, and backing into "tight" sites?  The 2' length added I understand, turning and maneuvering is the concern.  (We had a 35' Bluebird beam axle no slide coach, and now fulltime in a 37' Bluebird beam axle no slide coach).

I need to look in the documentation again, but are there side cameras to switch view when turn signals are on?  If not, has anyone added them?

Generally, longer coach = longer wheelbase = increased turning radius.  All else equal, smaller turning radius = better maneuverability.

See chart at the top of the linked page for approximate turning radius numbers.  Note 36' and 38' are very similar - big increase going to 40'.

Foretravel Specifications, Floor Plans, Photos & Brochures by Year (https://wiki.foreforums.com/doku.php?id=through_the_years:specs)

One other "turning spec" to watch when comparing coach models is the "wheel cut angle".  Don't know if there would be any difference in any of the model years you mentioned.  Search "cut angle" on the Forum for relevant discussions.

Differences ...  Way more than sames ...

36' to 40' is all wheebase.  Tougher to back into tight spots or make sharper turns going forward.  With no tag axle, more basement space. With a tag, about the same. Inside the bathroom gets about 2 of the 4 feet and the LR the rest.

Single slide vs two slides. Single slide is nice. The second slide is going to be a closet in the BR. The bed is offset a bit with the closet slide and with it in, the BR is harder to use. Plus you lose the left and right side overhead cabinet and a window for ventilation.

1999 was the first year with slides, no overhead cabinets in the slide.  They added short (vertically) LR slide overhead cabinets by 2001. 2002 they were taller but covered up part of the front and rear side windows. In 2003 they fixed that by making the windows smaller.

2001 slide mechanism is entirely concealed. 2002 and later have a floor to ceiling slide mechanism the eats up some cabinet space and floor space. The mechanism is exposed but covered by a pleated shade thing.  I am not sure but is seems that the 2001 bladder seals have a better life expectancy than the ones in later years with a different mechanism. Not quantitative data, just my impression looking at how many of which need to be replaced.  We are more than 15 years on our original 2001 bladder, knocking furiously on wood as we speak.  I needed a slide adjustment and the guy at MOT said the 2001 was easier to do than the 2002.

The dash configuration changed in 2001 to a more contemporary look. User's choice here.
Front steps changed in that 2000 - 2005 period.
Front and rear caps and lower body panels changed in 2002.  Front and rear caps had attachment seam issues and most were redone. Side docking lights changed too. I m not sure how effective the side pointing lights are compared to the 2001 spotlights angled towards the rear.
I do not remember when the full length ducted ceiling for AC started, it was done in 2001 and maybe a year or two earlier.
Floor plans and eating arrangements vary through those years. Ours have the either liked or disliked J dinette. We like ours better than a booth dinette. Sometimes we think a table and chairs would be OK.

There were issues with fiberglass resins and adhesives in 2002 and 2003 mostly resolved by late 2003 it seems.. Check at Xtreme Paint in NAC for their opinions on this issue. Many but not all slides in 2002-2003 had adhesive bond failures in the slides resulting in bulges. This may have been part of the bldder seal lifetime issue. Some earlier coaches and later ones have had this issue too but certinly not all.

2001 - 2004 were very similar mechanically, some small difference. I can't comment on the fuel system. Some coaches have independent front suspension.

2001 U320 had the AH in the center of the coach and the batteries on the driver's side. 2002 and later swapped these. Batteries in the middle and AH outside. Your choice on maintenance and service.  Battery replacement is more difficult I would think.

2001 had more side structure under the slide. In 2002 and later that structure went towards the centerline and they switched to two helf depth basement slides, one going each way. At some point in there some of the electrical panels and air compressor for the slide and leveling system went to the drivers side main bay floor and the slide went to a 3/4 depth slide.

2002's and maybe beyond had an air operated big awning. A common problem area. The 2001 is all manual.

Full body paint was standard by 2003 as I recall.  A FB paint job with a slide is north of $20K. I lusted after one for a few years and then decided there was a lot better places to put money.  Our 2001 has about 25% paint. The paint is in great shape, the gel coat parts are shiney and polished. Black, anything beyond a light tan actually, adds significntly to the interior temps and AC loads.  We have been "camping" with folks in a dark coach.  Their AC ran 24/7 for a week.  We never once ran ours.  Rance at Xtreme told me that your first rock chip is less than 100 miles away. 

And there are so many other differences. Mirrored ceilings, wood for vertical window trim, wood trim above the slide (vs padded vinyl, saved my head many times) colors, carpets, wood floors, tile floors, toilet in a closet or not, washer/drier or not. Complex vacuum flush toilets and cross drains or a more simple plop and drop they used in the 2001.

The more you learn about all of the big and small differences, mechanical, service and maintenance things, floorplans, colors and details the better chance of getting what you want. You can change colors and materials, seats, furniture, dinettes inside. The kitchen and bathroom are pretty much fixed. You can add a washer/drier if you want to give up the closet space (not us!)

Look at as many as possible. We found our 2001 after a long search and it was perfect for us. But our list of upgrades (improvements) is long but each has been to improve quality of life. A FB paint would not have improved that but not doing it has easily paid for everything else.

Oh yah, new right side HD camera, auto switches with turn signal, pretty nice.

At least one 2003 has a bedroom slide with a desk and window instead of a closet (closet is in the bath)  ;)


Ours is a full width single-piece slide that rolls out in either direction.  We have toyed with the idea of splitting it, but haven't had anything in the tray that is too tall to clear the center rail structure.


I think in 2003 they switched to the Girard electric awning instead. 

Great stuff Roger!!!

1999 Very limited in number of slide coaches produced

2000 year also had slide delamination issues (easily if not cheaply addressed by Xtreme if need - due to glue used eating styrofoam

ducting was moved forward towards driver in 2001, is about 10' further aft (last outlet) in 2000. Many (including me) have had ductwork extended at FOT at a cost of $1,000. Purpose is to get more A/C output near driver when running Gen/AC going down the road. Side benefit of that is that dash AC much more effective when dealing with cooler air to begin with - worth the $1,000

No smog on 2000 Cummins, not sure when emissions stuff started to be added.

Have 40', had two 36' before current coach.  40 is more, but from a day to day driving/usage, the concerns re additional size are more mental than actual issues, and melt away once you get used to the 40.  (Mind you I do not have IFS, so some planning is required, you get used to it)  I routinely get into small parks and spots, take it slow, get out and look around coach, etc. All good practices, in a 34 or 45 foot coach.

Buy the coach you like, based on price, floor plan, condition, maintenance - 36, 38 or 40.  200 and 2001 have good selection and were the pinnacle years of FT quality per James T.  But great options exist before and after those years.

Happy Hunting!

I don't know which years or which models, but at some point Foretravel went to a consolidated electrical bay. Inverter/charger, 12 volt air compressor, HWH boxes, hydraulic pump, electrical panels, etc. were in one easily accessible bay.
Larry

Thanks Michelle for the extra details. There are very few blanket statements that cover everything in every year.  I know of two 2001 coaches within a dozen build numbers either side of ours that are surprisingly different.  You need to look closely and when you find one you like look very closely paying attention to the details.

Our '03 is like that.

"Built especially for you" was on the older coaches.  Every one can and did vary.

Looking at Barry's site our 97' has a small pantry between the bath and china cabinet and a wider cabinet with slide out drawers in the lower half next to the refer.

Oh and a mid entry.  No Joey beds.  And a right side camera.

Not 2000.....scattered about the coach in mine

Dan, excellent and very experienced, perceptive set of questions.
Roger, great summary!
Tim, interesting perspectives.
A few things I'd like to add:

• Having owned and used (long-term) both a 36' non-tag and a 42' (dumping, not lifting) tag FT, I find that potential buyers dwell too much on overall length versus not enough on experience level and individual comfort levels/abilities.  A tag interferes much more (when in tight spaces) and an Independent Front Suspension improves maneuverability FAR more, than overall (36' vs. 42') length matters.  If an owner is an inexperienced and low confidence level driver (that often finds him/herself in difficult situations that are not easily resolved) then by all means avoid a longer coach and find yourself an IFS coach.  If the owner is a skilled and confident operator, then both a 36' and a 42' coach gets positioned easily and a set of simple "spotter" mandatory actions takes place without stress, worry or incident.  After 16 years with a 36', I felt that the 42' tag would probably impede our freedom somewhat, but it hasn't — at all.  Some three point turns have become five point, but never have we had to find another campground or even another parking place.  BUT, our Standard Operating procedure has always been, when things are tight or the transmission goes into reverse, I place the coach initially and then, with verified good radios, the DW drives and I stay in her sight (street-side rear or curbside forward) providing clear directions, until we are settled.  During 2.5 recent months in small Canadian Province campgrounds, moving every two or three days, we had no problems at all and we placed the coach in a number of tight, but extraordinarily beautiful locations, with the same ease as the 36'.

• I can't answer the Control Module CM570 vs. CM875 fuel system question — no insights. The following applies to another subject raised, though, emissions controls timeframes:  Heat build up in rear of coach when traveling (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=27131.msgucing) 221241#msg221241

• The side cameras were not an OEM option through 2004, that I am aware of anyway.  They are easily added by (or for) the owner as desired.

• A separate compartment for auxiliary systems has pro's and con's.  In model year 2003 and up, FT design incorporates a separate compartment just behind the street-side steer tire in all models.  I did a lot of measuring and calculating trying to decide if that made sense for us.  I concluded that while it would be very convenient, it would significantly cut down on our "full-timing" (non slide) "kit and caboodle".  By carefully choosing storage containers and through careful arrangement in compartments, I can carry a lot more, conveniently accessible, full timing "kit", than a separated auxiliary compartment would allow.  Four full height, 1/2 bay storage  slides are GREAT!

• 2001 was the first model year to have a dropped ceiling and an AC plenum that goes all of the way forward.  I didn't think it would improve (over the 1998, 36') quality of (driving) life as much as it actually has.  It is highly effective in hot conditions!  Well worth doing by sticking to 2001 and up, or through modifications.

• 2002 was the model year when FT started seriously reducing wind noise-producing body structure and components (end cap seams, floor-level, belt-line seams, body panel aerodynamics, Girard awning fairings, window manufacturer and window to body seal design, mirror design, etc.).  The smooth transition end caps were a large part of that and, of course, that led to the 2002 and 2003 end cap repair issues.  However, the longer term benefits of 2002 and up improvements in seams and component sealing design for, windows, mirrors and awnings are vast improvements over earlier design in terms of interior peace, quiet and tranquility going down the road.

• 2002 and 2003 end caps, repaired by FOT vs. Extreme, are not the same quality based on my experience and research.  I have seen many FOT 2nd and 3rd generation repairs fail again, while I have yet to find a single Extreme repair that has failed a second time.  Ours is a 3rd generation FOT repair that is currently failing again.  FOT knew it and refused to address it at the time of our trade.  Known factor going in, not happy about it, but we accepted the issue to get our 2002 coach.

• As Roger has said, full body paint is a double edged sword.  PO custom FBP'd our (OEM, FBP'd) coach when he had the end caps repaired. It is extremely easy to maintain, especially with the painted roof.  We love the  Southwestern inspired design and the light upper, darker lower scheme.  Very easy to cool and draws crowds of admirers everywhere we go.  They usually don't know why it strikes them as being so different until the lighter upper/darker lower is explained to them, but it makes tremendous, practical (heat gain) sense, and certainly draws a crowd!  But Rance is right, the first paint chips are less than 100 miles down the road, and we don't follow any traffic closely!  If KISS is important to you, then more FT gel-coat and less paint should be equally important.  Paint chips (for us) seem to be unavoidable and EXPENSIVE, when one is highly particular about appearance.

• As Roger said so well, "There are very few blanket statements that cover everything in every year."  And as Tim said, "Buy the coach you like, based on price, floor plan, condition, maintenance."  Be especially careful, however, of the blanket unqualified/unquantified representations about "pinnacle years".  Everyone has their own "musts and wants".  Your depth of experience and your ability to sort out what matters to you is what is important. You have plenty of background and experience to know what will improve your quality of RV'ing life.  And shopping long enough, will produce the magical match!  At least it did for us and we weren't really shopping.  We had just gradually arrived at what mattered the most to us and the quality of life just came along with an unanticpated opportunity!

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HTH,
Neal

Actually 2001 has drop ceiling and air vents all the way foward. I have owned a 99 34 foot, a 2000 36 foot. Both no slides one a 270 the other a 320 and now a 42 foot two slide coach.  For livability the 42 foot wins.  I have not been shut out of a campground I wanted to go to yet and five point turns sometimes are the norm.  I had one campground ask how good a driver I was and I said if you have a spot I will get in. They said ok and did not want poor write ups on the net. That being said if I was just trailing go go go a none slide is great but love the tag for driving and the space of a 42.  Now that being said I am not a forest service tiny campground coach.  I had a 24 footer for that.

You are right, John. 
Thanks.  I corrected my post to reflect correct info.
Neal

Thanks for all the information on different year model changes.  Great information!

I have always had steel Bluebirds, newest with painted fiberglass end caps and compartment doors.  I have no experience with how easy or how hard it is to maintain Gel Coat to look good.  I do know I never want decals / decal striping  again - they seem to always degrade over time.

Is it easy to keep non painted gel coat looking good?

Do the non full body painted U320s have decals/"plastic" striping?

Another note is that we don't particularly  like mirrored ceilings, so I need to research the years on that issue as well.

The mirror is an optional insert and I believe they can be removed (we don't have them so I can't personally verify).

Mine isn't a full body painted 320, but a cheap 270 with full body paint. Don't know if that makes a difference or not, but mine has NO decals. It does have the plastic stick on crap on the nose, does little for protection, is harder to clean than waxed fiberglass, and gives a task for removal when you run out of something else to do.

Our 2001 36' U320 is about 25% paint, no decals.  It was the first year they painted them. Paint is holding up well, e few very small chips. We do not have the ceiling mirrors, I have not seen them in any 2001s we have seen but that is a small sample. 

Weather, sun and minimal care are tough on gelcoat and paint.  We are (as are very many FT owners) pretty particular about how our coach looks. The front end and any bug catching tthnigs like mirrors are cleaned soon after we stop on every driving day. Bugs left for a day or two get much harder to remove.  A well polished front end make the job easier.  I use WashWaxAll and dry clean the coach frequently especially if we are going to be somewhere for a week or so. Split the job up into a few days. If it just dusty, a couple hours total. 

At age 14 we took the coach into the spa in NAC (Precision Auto Car) for a three day beauty treatment. They buffed and polished and waxed everything, gelcoat, roof, paint and all of the aluminum parts of awnings. They cleaned the bay doors and the bay door opening, even the insides of the bay doors.  They cleaned and treated the tires. They clened and painted the wheel wells. They used toothbrushes to clean the bay door handles.  When they were done the coach just gleamed.  More than two years later it still does.  For the cost of a full body paint job you can get this spa treatment every two years for the next thirty years.  Well inflation might adjust that. And there are less expensive places too.

Paint looks nice. Neal Pillsbury's coach has an extremely appealing design to me.  A painted coach to me is a bonus if everything else is perfect and the paint is a pleasing lighter color.

When you find a good one get an independent inspection done.  It really helps to see it from someone elses point of view.

Roger

Good  factual info here. 

My time with Foretravel as a manager was well before the dates you are interested in unfortunately for me but I am a big fan of gel coated exteriors.

But that is for a reason.  And we may use our coach differently than the majority here. 

In my  orginal presentation to prospective Foretravel owners I highly stressed the gel coats much tougher surface than paint.  And the much less heat gain in the sun.

I had them touch the exterior in direct sun then touch a painted coaches exterior.  Big difference.

Especially dark paint. 

That being said most newer coach owners run their gens constantly while using the coach. 

Or drive from power pedestal to power pedestal.

Over the years we have driven around countless campgrounds looking at prospective sites and love the ability to not need the hookups as much and to have the flexibility to dry camp weather permitting.

The gel coat in white displays almost no visible marks from small tree branches and such and allows some flexibility in selecting small forest service campgrounds with tighter clearances.

I know this is not exactly what you asked about so I hope you factor this in.

Every boat in the harbor is white gel coat for a reason. 

Was in our closed up coach in storage yesterday and our areas temps have been up,to the high 80's and the refers doors were open inside the coach.  The refer has exterior temp indicators over the doors.  They record the current and max temps inside.

I noticed the max was  at 78 degrees. 

Dark paint would have had the gauge much hotter.

Different idea maybe from what you originally asked for and depending on your wants and where you live and its climate you may need/want a coach that's prettier painted and to run the gen more.

My comment long ago before painted Foretravels was that one mark of how "good" an Rv is is how well does it dry camp?

At least to us as we live in Southern California and over the last four years we have owned this coach the industry has sold several million Rvs. 

Parks are much more crowded and reservstions are done seven months in advance. 

Almost all the pretty new coaches require a lot of gen time and have tender exteriors. 

We like more  quiet.  Less neighbors in more open campgrounds.

The majority of current owners can not or do not use their coaches this way.

A lot of prospective owners envisioning the "Rv lifestyle" want the social life and to meet new people and be part of a group which while fun was not our reason for having a coach.

We went through a so cal campground in the early afternoon tenatively looking at camp sites and we noticed a group of campers gathered in a site and several golf carts parked in the area and all of the group had a large probably adult beverage in their hands at two pm.

Not our style.  But is very normal.

I sold bluebirds in the late 80's and early 90's and the painted metal body required the gen on at most times.

Not so the Foretravel.  None of the older Rvs high line coaches were darkly painted,  light pastel colors at most. 

Good luck in your search as this will be fun.  I would seriously think about even older years if you like the flexibility the early coaches offer.

Just a thought.  we would not want a less dry campable Rv than we have now. 

We are into nature not necessarily the Rv lifestyle so your wants are probably different. 

Interested to see what you find.