Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Discussions => Topic started by: Tim on September 01, 2016, 11:54:15 am
Title: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Tim on September 01, 2016, 11:54:15 am
My wife Deb, son and I are looking to go on a 9 month USA trip in a Foretravel. My requirements are:
- Front end like a modern "Bus", with forward door entry - No significant leaks, rot or rust - 36 ft or less diesel pusher - Decent maintenance done. However, I am a handy man with advanced shade-tree mechanic skills, so I am not too picky. I will probably end up putting on solar panels. - Less than $35,000. No bank loan will be required.
We have tested the RV lifestyle in a 1985 28Ft Fleetwood Southwind gasser and are ready to move up. I realize we will end up with a '90s model with high miles, but that's expected.
Tim
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: D.J. Osborn on September 01, 2016, 12:42:58 pm
A Foretravel U270 is the model most likely to meet your requirements. Here Foretravel U270 (http://motorhomesoftexas.com/rvcoach/foretravel/u270) are examples of those that have been sold by Motorhomes of Texas. You could try searching the Web for Foretravel U270 models for sale.
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Mike Leary (RIP) on September 01, 2016, 12:54:24 pm
You're on the right track with this forum, but I'd suggest posting a separate thread off the classifieds. That way, a lot of folks can post insight without driving the mods nuts. ^.^d
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Tim Fiedler on September 01, 2016, 01:03:20 pm
look for a 95-97 U-270 may be a bit rough, pay attention to Bulkhead, tire age, battery age. Refrigerator unless already replaced could quit during your trip
adding $10k to your budget will greatly expand your quantity of options and the quality of what you can find on the market
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: wolfe10 on September 01, 2016, 01:19:42 pm
Tim,
I moved your post from Classified (where others can not comment without a moderator approving the post) so you can get feedback.
Brett Moderator
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: bogeygolfer on September 01, 2016, 01:21:55 pm
adding $10k to your budget will greatly expand your quantity of options and the quality of what you can find on the market
Great advice.
Chris
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Tim Fiedler on September 01, 2016, 01:33:17 pm
Oops!! Thanks
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Fred and Dawn on September 01, 2016, 01:39:17 pm
Have you reviewed my post for a '98 U-295 at 36 feet. It seems to meet your requirements but it is a little outside your stated "budget". We can talk.......(863) 984-2192.
Fred
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Mike Leary (RIP) on September 01, 2016, 01:57:42 pm
adding $10k to your budget will greatly expand your quantity of options and the quality of what you can find on the market
Good point, we bought this coach a couple of years ago, paid high dollar for it after what I thought was the POs honesty. The PO before the PO we bought her from took excellent care of her, and provided paperwork to back it up. Little did I know, the coach was sold to us needing all the fluids/filters replaced, plus the brakes are now suspect. Granted, she had a new paint & stripes job, plus (what I thought) were fresh tires (which will need replacing shortly.) So, besides Tim boosting the price, I'd have to say, you need to know what "Coach Bucks" are. 1 CB = $1,000.00. Have 10 CBs ready after the coach is bought. There are many on this forum that will say that's too little, and they speak from "buyer's remorse". This Forum and RV Trader are the only sites I'd look at. O.K., these bad girls are some of the finest and the best, just do your homework. ^.^d
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Tim on September 03, 2016, 06:39:17 am
Agreed. For example, airbags are rubber parts that can crack like the sidewall of a old tire. Fifeteen year old bags probably should be replaced regardless of miles or storage. I am almost sure that most sellers have not spent $10k to replace eight airbags. So, I would expect a fastidious owner of a 1998 vintage rig to have these replaced. I would bet that none of the U270+ rigs I am looking to purchase have replaced them. So, if I spend $10k more on a 1998 rig, I would expect that the airbags were replaced.
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: John S on September 03, 2016, 07:30:50 am
Also the fuel lines are due for replacement and it is about 1800 bucks. If the fridge is original it may or may not last. I would budget 10k for repairs if many of the big things are not done yet. Big things are tires, fuel lines air bags shocks brake rotors and on the 8.3 lift pump and exhaust manifold issues. Also check the condition of the radiator and CAC. On my 01 I have replaced tires, fuel lines radiator CAC, batteries, shocks and air bags and fridge in the last couple years . That is why records are important on buying an older coach and is worth spending a bit more to get the coach in the first place.
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Dave Head on September 03, 2016, 08:05:11 pm
I've considered selling mine then waiting a few years before we consider getting back in (we are on a 3 year debt free plan). It has 4 new (this year) and 2 newer (last year) tires, new main fuel line, new rear brakes and wheel seals all around, new ECU last year. Some needs too, like air bags eventually, a board for the front heater and a charge for the AC. 180W of solar on the roof keeps the batteries up in storage, both roof airs do fine, reefer works good. $23K if I were to sell it.
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: craneman on September 03, 2016, 09:00:14 pm
My wife Deb, son and I are looking to go on a 9 month USA trip in a Foretravel. My requirements are:
- Front end like a modern "Bus", with forward door entry - No significant leaks, rot or rust - 36 ft or less diesel pusher - Decent maintenance done. However, I am a handy man with advanced shade-tree mechanic skills, so I am not too picky. I will probably end up putting on solar panels. - Less than $35,000. No bank loan will be required.
We have tested the RV lifestyle in a 1985 28Ft Fleetwood Southwind gasser and are ready to move up. I realize we will end up with a '90s model with high miles, but that's expected.
Tim
Check this one out 1997 Foretravel U270, Escondido CA - - RVtrader.com (http://www.rvtrader.com/listing/1997-Foretravel-U270-119476872?zmc=NADA-FIND-AD-DETAIL&cbnadag=2016931722393914)
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Caflashbob on September 03, 2016, 09:20:39 pm
Outside is normal faded for 20 years old.
Would concentrate on everything underneath.
The words my Rv buddies and I hate to hear is "it never gave me no trouble."
Means everything needs replacement or service.
The 97 has good enough gelcoat to buff out normally.
If you ask about fuel lines and tire dates and shocks and exact batteries and how old the seller will either know that you know or may be more flexible.
If all original and old tires and batteries and such can easily use up $10-15 coach bucks.
We are more than $20k into ours after purchase but a perfect condition coach with new everything mechanical perfect is a joy to drive and safer and easier to use.
Sixty miles from me
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Don & Tys on September 03, 2016, 09:34:23 pm
Not far from where we are... the ad says 36' but it is obviously a 34'. The center storage bay is the same size as the wet bay and the fuel tank/battery/propane bay. No mods or upgrades listed or visible in pictures, but tires and batteries supposed to be new. Not a bad price if the structural/mechanical essentials are good. Don
Check this one out 1997 Foretravel U270, Escondido CA - - RVtrader.com (http://www.rvtrader.com/listing/1997-Foretravel-U270-119476872?zmc=NADA-FIND-AD-DETAIL&cbnadag=2016931722393914)
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: craneman on September 03, 2016, 09:34:42 pm
The ad says all batteries and tires replaced this year.
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: krush on September 03, 2016, 10:08:28 pm
nice price for a 34' buy it!
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: George and Steph on September 03, 2016, 11:22:24 pm
There are obvious cosmetics Decal removal and replace 3200. High quality four part gel coat 1100 Fridge appears original 1500 plus Window seals 200 per hole plus Awnings are in bad shape with rear either thread bare or rips may be dirt. It appears to have been sitting a long time. Ask for fuel receipts and note dates as well as other records of course. New tires and batterys to move it and yet the old fridge would support sitting. If so, the hoses, seals, steering box, gaskets etc may be suspect. Air bags, fuel hoses, and shocks are common at this point.
I think you will find yourself over 15cbs with this very easily even if you are one of the great shade tree and better mechanics on the forum. Michelle did an analysis of costs and I don't remember the key words. It was more accurate than I care to remember.
On the other hand it may have good bones and provide you a base to have one your way. That is what we did and so far no regrets. We had a good inspection done by Brett Wolfe and knew what we were getting into.
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Gary Omel (RIP) on September 04, 2016, 01:50:29 pm
THAT, is a good price for a low mileage U 320
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: John and Stacey on September 04, 2016, 02:33:28 pm
We are at 35 "Coach Bucks" Coach was in very good shape, lots of updating. Valences around all windows were re-covered, new curtains in bedroom, new skirt around base of bed, replace door window (creeping seal), re-carpet bedroom and trim in rest of coach, change to a 32" flatscreen TV, add a satellite dish, re-tile bathroom, re-upholster dining chairs and drivers and talking seat on the passenger side, and a 44" 4K Flat screen TV to the front (already had a 32" flatscreen). New Notebook for silverleaf. New wrap around interior shade. Replaced old frig with a new Samsung residential refer. Added David's A/C vent extenders to the living area (what a difference that made). New woven material installed on steps. New front wrap around shade, 2 new "Red Top" Optima start batteries with Optima maintainer. Electric shoreline reel. David in remod did the A/C work, refer and front TV mods. Added 40" Flat screen TV to basement. There are too many small items to list like 2 air bags, 2 air manifolds, numerous air fittings and valves. Air dryer update. many systems checked just because. Replace 1 basement door as it had been tapped by someone somewhere be fore my ownership. Rebuilt steering box. Coach was pretty much stripped of graphics before I got her, finished stripping and added new graphics until we decide on paint, headlights and step conversions.
Take in mind that this coach really needed nothing......Mrs Smith wanted it her way and I had my needs.....
All in all I love my coach, it meets our needs and we are comfortable.
May you find what you are looking for and good luck.
John
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Tim on September 06, 2016, 10:54:19 pm
Thanks for all of your replies. It is interesting that many of the listings I am looking at have not done the proper maintenance, yet want a big price. Guess I'll have to hold out for a coach that has decent maintenance.
I also started looking at the Newmar Dutch Star. I know...blasphemy! However, there are many more listings, for the same price, slides are available with arctic packages.
Do all Foretravels, even U270's have cold-weather packages, built-in, with heated basements?
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: bogeygolfer on September 07, 2016, 10:24:27 pm
I think Newmars are a good product, just not the same level as Foretravel. We looked seriously at one near us before we bought our coach, and it was very nice. Just not quite in the same league. That is not to say you wouldn't be happy with a Newmar; just compare the two before you make a decision.
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: JohnFitz on September 07, 2016, 10:50:14 pm
Do all Foretravels, even U270's have cold-weather packages, built-in, with heated basements?
Yes, same construction just different power trains and "goodies". Even my 25 year old coach has a heated basement with insulation on basement floors, walls and bay doors.
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Don & Tys on September 07, 2016, 11:03:33 pm
Suggestion, get down and look up at the bottom of the basement floor. Foretravels have an inch and a half thick rigid styrofoam insulation in the basement floor sandwiched between top and bottom fiberglass skins. Most other coaches that I have looked at, including Monaco Dynasties and higher have plywood covered with undercoating for the basement floor. The you can see the exposed angle iron framing underneath instead of Foretravel's smooth underbelly with rigid styrofoam insulation between tubular steel framing sandwiched between the fiberglass skins. Not sure what Newmar does down there... Don
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Caflashbob on September 08, 2016, 12:21:37 am
If you are serious about the winter use option my personal choice would be any aquahot unicoach.
Coach Capable of -40 f from many reports.
Doable in a propane heater coach with additional bay heaters and monitoring.
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Tim on September 09, 2016, 09:19:15 am
Oh my, what have I done?
Just put a deposit on a 199x U270. Going next week to inspect it.
The good: Decent price. I cannot divulge it since the deal is not done yet. The transmission was replaced about five years ago.
The bad: It's running a little rough at idle, shaking the whole coach, but runs smooth at-speed. Probably needs new injectors and a new timing chain. Paint fade It has high miles on it. Engine condition is unknown. Does not have dual-pane windows, but that could be easily rectified with an unknown number of CBs
Where do I poke my head to look at the bulkhead?
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: wolfe10 on September 09, 2016, 09:24:09 am
Tim,
Not sure "poking you head" will reveal the condition of the bulkheads.
Here is more comprehensive discussion of the bulkheads: Bulkhead Repair-- A Comprehensive Look (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=8645.0)
And, no idea where you/the coach are, but as with any large purchase, paying a professional to inspect it would be money well spend. That is exactly what I do when buying a house, large boat.......
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Bill Willett on September 09, 2016, 10:31:57 am
If this is the coach on RVT.com have a good diesel mechanic look at the engine, you could be looking at a dad injector,bad fuel return check valve, bad lift pump, or worst of all bad injection pump, and Cummins engines don't have timing chains.
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: RvTrvlr on September 09, 2016, 11:27:56 am
199x needs to be defined. If its a 99, then it should have a pricey caps pump. Earlier and a reliable and cheap P pump.
Id get cummins to look it over before agreeing on a price. It has the possibility to get very expensive.
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Caflashbob on September 09, 2016, 12:58:22 pm
Valves and injectors are supposed to be done every 100k miles
Our electronic m11 had a misfire at idle as an inexpensive cam position sensor was failing.
A combo of the two if equipped plus a Winn system air leak in the fuel system COULD be contributing.
If the seller is aware of the rough idle and chooses not to fix it then the price should be adjusted accordingly
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Bill Willett on September 09, 2016, 01:18:59 pm
Flash, I guess you forgot your days of selling coaches with C8.3, they don't have cam position sensor or the Winn System.
He did not disclose the year. 99 U270 does have an electronic 8.3 in it. Whether IT has a sensor similar to the ones in a m11 is to be determined. Or a Winn. I left Foretravel in 89 and returned for a bit in 93 then ran a country coach store in 95-96. Then got out of the biz.
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Bill Willett on September 09, 2016, 03:38:53 pm
He did not disclose the year. 99 U270 does have an electronic 8.3 in it. Whether IT has a sensor similar to the ones in a m11 is to be determined. Or a Winn. I left Foretravel in 89 and returned for a bit in 93 then ran a country coach store in 95-96. Then got out of the biz.
99 u270 does not have single pane windows.
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: John44 on September 09, 2016, 03:53:38 pm
Tim,let us know what year it is so we can stop speculating on the problems.As far as I know dual pane started late 96,on the 270 it was a option.I thought the same when I got mine but I do not see a need for dual pane,would probably work better in cold climates.
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: George and Steph on September 09, 2016, 04:14:28 pm
97 dual panes were standard in 270s.
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Caflashbob on September 09, 2016, 05:22:46 pm
Beyond the insulation abilities to the reduction in noise is a great thing
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Tim on September 12, 2016, 04:53:07 pm
Your advice please. I put a 10% deposit on a 1996 U270 and am on-site inspecting it. Should I bail out or offer $5,000 less to fix this severe rust? It is behind a piece of sheet metal that looks like a bulkhead, close to the propane tank, stretches all the way across the bulkhead, and looks buckled. Could a piece of angle iron be welded in there? See photo at:
http://paop.org/BU.JPG
The bulkhead bolts look aligned and still fastened perpendicular to the bulkhead: See photo at:
http://paop.org/RU.JPG
Questions: What structural support does this metal plate serve? Is it really part of the bulkhead? There is a propane tank support right next this line of rust. Does it support some of that load?
Other than this, I don't see any other rust through, without removing the belly fairings.
It also needs a new set of airbags. There is de-lamination of the rubber on one airbag and cracking on the others.
Inside the coach looks dry. No soft spots anywhere in the coach, walls, ceiling or roof using the "stomp test".
A 40 year diesel mechanic is coming tomorrow to inspect the engine. If the engine checks out OK, should I make an offer, minus $5,000 to handle this rust? That would bring the price down to $20,000.
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: John44 on September 12, 2016, 05:02:51 pm
Had the same rust spot on my coach,think it gets there from driving in rain and front wheel throws water right there.Fixed mine with some por-15 paint and elbow grease.Take a water hose and spray that area to pinpoint where the water gets in and then fix that part,to me would not be a deal breaker.
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: wolfe10 on September 12, 2016, 05:10:40 pm
Tim,
The picture of the bulkhead area (the 1/4" thick angle) will never be a problem-- that is not the area of the bulkhead that fails.
The part that fails is immediately toward the center of the coach from the angle beam. The bolts (self tapping Rolock bolts) in your picture screw into the two thin walls of the 1.5" box beam immediately toward center of coach from the angle.
Look at the fiberglass under the 1.5" box beam. It should not be significantly raised from the rest of the floor around it. If it is, that is a sign of rust jacking, and indicates that the beam has degraded. Did you torque the Rolock bolts? How many were broken. They will generally either torque up or pull out with little torque. Most break 4-5 threads in, where the bolt meets the first wall of the box beam.
Again, not suggesting there is a problem, but the picture above would NOT expose a problem were there one.
If you want to visit on the phone about this, PM me.
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Michelle on September 12, 2016, 05:16:47 pm
Did you torque the Rolock bolts? How many were broken. They will generally either torque up or pull out with little torque. Most break 4-5 threads in, where the bolt meets the first wall of the box beam.
Should one torque the Rolock bolts in a coach, be absolutely sure you understand the torque spec (it is not a significant amount) and be sure the owner understands what you are about to do.
More than one repair facility has expressed concern that coaches are being unnecessarily damaged by improper inspection. Given they make money on the repair, they do not have a vested interest in having these coaches NOT inspected, but instead are frustrated by the frequent need to drill out and replace bolts that are needlessly being broken due to incorrect procedures.
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: wolfe10 on September 12, 2016, 05:24:34 pm
A little more information on Michelle's post.
The Rolock is a grade 8 bolt (i.e. STRONG).
Per the engineers at Rolock, they recommended torquing to 250 INCH, repeat INCH pounds. That is just slightly over 20 ft-lbs. There point was that if there was less torque than this, the bolt was not really serving any function.
And, from experience, if the bolt is broken, it will not allow you to get close to even that torque figure.
If an owner is concerned that you are "breaking his bolts", have him look at the end of the bolt where it is broken. It will be badly rusted (been broken for a long time). At least a guy would have to be pretty irrational to think you not only broke the bolt, but also rusted the end!
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Jeff & Sandy on September 12, 2016, 07:14:21 pm
Late to the party Tim, but please take up Brett on his generous offer.
I planned my coach purchase arounds Brett's schedule so he could inspect my coach. If this coach is in Texas you would be wise to have him do an inspection.
These are very reliable, well built coaches but they are complicated. In my opinion, without an inspection you are rolling the dice.
Good luck and I hope it works out!
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Tim on September 12, 2016, 08:25:45 pm
By the way, it's a 1996 U270.
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Don & Tys on September 12, 2016, 09:25:21 pm
The first picture of the rust next to the propane tank is hard to place in context. Do you have a wider angle shot of the area? Our 99' U270 doesn't have that sheet metal next to the propane tank. On ours, the fuel tank is the forward most thing in the basement area with the propane tank next in line towards the rear, with a partition between them. The partition is fiberglass covered metal framed wall that runs all the way to the other side of the coach. If that sheet metal in the picture is the backside of the other picture, I would be very concerned. It is a structural element kind of like the thin plywood backing of a bookcase, it adds to the rigidity of the basement. There is sheet metal bulkhead on both ends of the basement, and it is spot welded to the angle iron all the way around the perimeter of the bulkhead as well as two sets of two vertical angle iron braces near the middle. It 16 gauge or better steel and does add strength as well as a firewall, IMHO. Don
Your advice please. I put a 10% deposit on a 1996 U270 and am on-site inspecting it. Should I bail out or offer $5,000 less to fix this severe rust? It is behind a piece of sheet metal that looks like a bulkhead, close to the propane tank, stretches all the way across the bulkhead, and looks buckled. Could a piece of angle iron be welded in there? See photo at:
http://paop.org/BU.JPG
The bulkhead bolts look aligned and still fastened perpendicular to the bulkhead: See photo at:
http://paop.org/RU.JPG
Questions: What structural support does this metal plate serve? Is it really part of the bulkhead? There is a propane tank support right next this line of rust. Does it support some of that load?
Other than this, I don't see any other rust through, without removing the belly fairings.
It also needs a new set of airbags. There is de-lamination of the rubber on one airbag and cracking on the others.
Inside the coach looks dry. No soft spots anywhere in the coach, walls, ceiling or roof using the "stomp test".
A 40 year diesel mechanic is coming tomorrow to inspect the engine. If the engine checks out OK, should I make an offer, minus $5,000 to handle this rust? That would bring the price down to $20,000.
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: George and Steph on September 12, 2016, 09:54:34 pm
The first expenditure I made on our 97 270 was an inspection by Brett. I worked our travel around his schedule. We spent almost four hours going through it. In the end I knew I would need, bags, shocks, possible transmission seals, fuel lines, transynd, red coolant etc etc. But the bones were good, I knew what was going to need attention and a guesstimate of what I would be spending. It is money well spent. Those things he green lighted have proven to be solid. BTW my final cost was 28,000 with a new fridge, tires, and batterys.
Good luck!
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Neal Pillsbury on September 12, 2016, 11:45:13 pm
Your advice please. I put a 10% deposit on a 1996 U270 and am on-site inspecting it. Should I bail out or offer $5,000 less to fix this severe rust? It is behind a piece of sheet metal that looks like a bulkhead, close to the propane tank, stretches all the way across the bulkhead, and looks buckled. Could a piece of angle iron be welded in there? See photo at:
Tim, The rust that you are seeing in the inner forward corner of the propane (and diesel fuel tank) compartment is likely a different problem than a compromised front bulkhead joint, at least it was on our 1998 U270 coach. First, the forward bulkhead of the propane (and on the driver's side, battery)/Fuel compartments is a latticework sandwich of 1.5" X 1.5" X 0.125" box channel framework, covered by inner and outer sheets of metal.
In order to promote air flow into the propane and battery compartments, there is an aluminum or plastic covered inlet vent through the outer sheet metal, up high on those compartments. The vent covers look just like the freshwater tank overflow setup on the rear bulkhead, which is in front of the curbside duals (see overflow photos links below). The propane and battery compartment inlet vents are up behind the front tires, almost directly behind the forward airbags. Air is forced from the relatively higher pressure of the wheel-well into the propane compartment because there is an uncovered round hole (somewhat offset toward the coach centerline from the outer hole) through the inner sheet metal, high up on the inner sheet metal of the bulkhead.
The rust comes from water and mist thrown up by the front tire, which enters the outer sheet metal vent hole, which then drains down into the space between the inner and outer sheets of metal "skin". The water collected is trapped there causing the rusting of the sheet metal and the box channel latticework. Year round, on wet days, roadways that ever see snow add their own mix of sodium chloride and calcium chloride de-icing products (and residuals) to the water that ends up trapped between the inner and out sheets of metal. Hence the rust damage to the propane compartment forward bulkhead (that has rusted from the inside out).
I had Extreme, MOT and FOT all look at my rusted areas (both sides - propane and battery compartments) to see if I needed to be (more) concerned. Consensus:
Not a structural concern.
Keep the area dormant with Corrosion X. Reapply at least annually. Once you use Corrosion-X on the area, it cannot be painted in the future.
Close off the wheel-well "water induction ports" with closed cell foam, or other, to prevent further water/corrosion inducing product intrusion.
It wouldn't hurt to open up large inspection holes in the sheet metal, in both the propane and battery compartments, for future routine inspection and Corrosion-X treatment purposes. These can be made neat and closed off with removable inspection ports. That also cleans up the unsightliness of the rusted area.
Short of removing the entire forward bulkhead, there is no easy way to rebuild or strengthen the rusted area. And, not being structural is not a necessary repair.
[/list]
So, if you have the vents on the 1996 U270, I believe that's probably the source of the water (and if a northern coach) the calcium corrosion products that are causing the rust. If the bulkhead's structural joints and Rolocks are intact, there is not a structural concern.
I agree with Brett that properly torque testing the bulkhead Rolocks (with the owner's knowledge and approval) is the only way to know for certain that the front and rear bulkheads are not compromised. A reasonable owner would want to know the true condition of the bulkhead joint as much as you want to know.
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Don & Tys on September 13, 2016, 01:04:10 am
Interesting... The forward bulkhead on our 99' is not a sandwich, but a single sheet of steel welded to structural angle iron on the outside (wheel well side), and smooth skin on the inside. I am quite sure on this point as I was up close and personal with it. It is a mirror image of the rear bulkhead, except that the rear has 1" (or maybe ¾") rigid styrofoam insulation with a fiberglass skin laminated to it. There was no rust on either side of the front bulkhead sheet metal on our coach. Fascinating the differences in these coaches year to year, and even build number to build number in some cases. Don
Tim, The rust that you are seeing in the inner forward corner of the propane (and diesel fuel tank) compartment is likely a different problem than a compromised front bulkhead joint, at least it was on our 1998 U270 coach. First, the forward bulkhead of the propane (and on the driver's side, battery)/Fuel compartments is a latticework sandwich of 1.5" X 1.5" X 0.125" box channel framework, covered by inner and outer sheets of metal.
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Tim on September 13, 2016, 08:00:15 am
Thank you so so so much for the detailed analysis. Just wondering how to factor this into my offer, or just walk away. The idea was to purchase a turnkey rig, not a "project." Of course, all older motorhomes are "projects" in my mind, some more than others.
I will meet with the consignment dealer, owner and diesel mechanic today and will let you know how it goes. Hope I can get access to a torque wrench. The torque on a Rolock bolt is approximately the same as a spark plug: 21 foot pounds. I have been torquing spark plugs for the last 50 years and could probably approximate the torque with a simple socket ranch and judgement.
I have used Corrosion X and ACF 50 in my airplanes and it is amazing stuff. Definitely will use it to halt the progression of the rust.
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: D.J. Osborn on September 13, 2016, 08:46:03 am
Thank you so so so much for the detailed analysis. Just wondering how to factor this into my offer, or just walk away. The idea was to purchase a turnkey rig, not a "project." Of course, all older motorhomes are "projects" in my mind, some more than others.
I haven't seen the motorhome, and so I can offer only general advice. When I purchase a vehicle I really prefer to deal (or at least discuss it) with the previous owner. I find it very beneficial to evaluate the owner as well as the vehicle.
This particular motorhome appears to have enough rust that I would be concerned--not just about the rust one can readily see, but about what rust there might be in other places. With the various other issues, I believe I personally would walk away.
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Tim on September 13, 2016, 08:45:36 pm
I offered a very low price because the 1996 U270 has lots of rust jacking. There was about 1/2 inch separation of the basement structure from the coach frame. Every roll lock bolt would have broken off if torqued. So, I guess the dealer will need to wait for an unsuspecting or enthusiastic buyer to pay full price. The rig needed:
- Replace engine idler pulley - New serpentine belts - New tires - New airbags - New batteries - Refrigerator repair - Fix propane gas leak - Fix severe rust-through in lower corner risers and lower horizontal sheet metal junction in fuel and fresh water bays - Fix severe bulkhead rust / possible structural failure
Well, the search continues.
Anyone know Dave Head? He has one for sale and I am in the same town as him until tomorrow morning. It sure would be nice if I could stop by and see his rig.
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Michelle on September 13, 2016, 09:00:11 pm
Anyone know Dave Head? He has one for sale and I am in the same town as him until tomorrow morning.
Although I'm sad to read he and Starr might be selling.... all of us long-timers know Dave Head. Take a look at his forum profile. Member since 2005, nearly 5000 posts..
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Tim Fiedler on September 13, 2016, 09:02:02 pm
I know Dave well, great guy, knows FT and takes care of his stuff.
PM me for Daves phone number
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: wolfe10 on September 13, 2016, 09:33:30 pm
Tim,
Send him a PM and/or e-mail: http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=profile;u=812
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Tim Fiedler on September 13, 2016, 11:48:23 pm
Talked to Dave- and sent you a PM with Dave's phone numbers - he is around tomorrow - give him a call
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Tim Fiedler on September 13, 2016, 11:49:12 pm
Bummer if he sells, but his wit has not been up to traveling for a while - hopefully only temporary
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Tim on September 15, 2016, 06:35:32 am
Bought the aforementioned 1997 U270 for $28,000. Here is my analysis:
T H E G O O D - SO much cleaner and well-maintained than the one in Florida. Very quiet in the front of the coach when driving. - Negligible rust on the basement horizontal frame supports. No rust jacking of bulkheads. Rolock fasteners turn with the expected 21 foot pounds of torque. No rusting of vertical basement frame. It was stored in a dry climate. - Better layout and features. Has one couch. - Has dual-pane windows - New tires this year, $3,000 - $5000 spent on maintenance since 2014: Filters, fluids, belts and minor repairs. - Air bags were in good condition - Father of seller was original owner. All documentation included. - All the lights, switches and doors work
N E E D S - Charging voltage at coach battery, which runs the engine, reads low. I will buy a digital voltmeter today and investigate whether it has a bad alternator. - Engine belt idler pulley chirps a little. I will get it replaced ASAP. - Furnace blows air but does not heat. It has electric heat as a backup. - Dash air conditioner is not cold. None of the Foretravels I've seen work because they leak freon due to 72ft of hose needed to get to/from engine. - Some dual pane windows have sealant creap. Need overhaul. - Fading paint/stickers, awnings, etc... - Rusted step
Now I am readying it for a 2500 mile journey to it's new home in Pennsylvania.
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: John44 on September 15, 2016, 07:35:41 am
Check the forum for the belt tensioner,gates makes a better one than stock.easy to put on yourself.If your engine is the non- electronic 12 valve all you need power for is to start and hold fuel solenoid open.I would also buy a battery charger to take with on your trip.
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on September 15, 2016, 10:18:39 am
Engine belt idler pulley chirps a little. I will get it replaced ASAP.
1996 U270 C8.3 belt tensioners (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=27862.msg229256#msg229256)
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Tim Fiedler on September 15, 2016, 11:39:28 am
Tim
If the coach is now in FL, consider getting windows fixed in Hudson FL before you leave FL - less hassle and expense then trying to get that done in PA.
If the coach is now in FL, consider getting windows fixed in Hudson FL before you leave FL - less hassle and expense then trying to get that done in PA.
Propane Furnaces stone simple, lots of threads on the forum of diagnosis and repair
If he bought the one I put the link up for, it is in Escondido
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Dave Head on September 15, 2016, 05:14:45 pm
Good for you!
New step is really cheap from FOT. Furnace likely needs adjustment or a board - from Dinosaur electronics. You might think about stopping in Nacodoches to pick up the step and have Old Town or MOT check it over.
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Mike Leary (RIP) on September 15, 2016, 05:29:09 pm
Furnace likely needs adjustment or a board - from Dinosaur electronics
I've always used Dinosaur after the "factory boards" failed way too soon. I carry a couple of their "universal boards". I am not a REP.
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Michelle on September 24, 2016, 07:12:58 am
Brett - you might want to move this discussion (split out the relevant posts) to its own Tech topic, not the generic "Want a FT with a bus end", otherwise it won't turn up as readily in a future search.
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: wolfe10 on September 24, 2016, 08:27:53 am
Tim,
Let me suggest that rather than continuing with questions on this thread that you start a new topic with each new/unrelated topic.
As Michelle said, that will assist others in the future when using the search feature.
Thanks.
Title: Re: WANTED: Foretravel with "Bus" front end
Post by: Michelle on September 25, 2016, 06:36:40 am
[split the charging discussion out to a new topic - Michelle]