I've been noticing a loss of power since I had the top end redone last April. Turbo boost seemed to be getting lower and lower but today while climbing a big hill on I-70 in Missouri things really got bad. Now the best I can get is 5 psi. I pulled off into an RV park to work on the old girl. I am afraid to taker her back on the Interstate with the power so low. Does anyone have an idea of what can cause so much loss of boost.
As a little background, the boost measurement is via VMSPC. The turbo has normally had a maximum boost of 20 to 22 psi at 2200 rpm on long hills. Until today it had been running about 14 to 15 psi maximum but I had been doing OK and was going to be back to the mechanic that worked on it in November. Its too hot to take anything apart right now but all of the plumbing connection seem to be tight. The turbo isn't making any unusual noises. I can't hear any air or exhaust leaks. The engine is running very smoothly as normal. The engine temp was in the 170's and oil pressure normal. My guess is the DDEC, electronic engine control, may be the culprit but I would like it to be something mechanical that I can fix myself.
Has anyone had a similar experience or have any ideas of what could be wrong.
Are you burning any oil? Turbos( in my experience) either smoke or blow up, both have happened to us.
Mike, no smoke at all. Not gray or black. That is something I have been looking for after talking with Ken Hatfield.
Check all the rubber connections between the intercooler and the turbo one of the bands may have come loose.
Thanks for the thought. 6V92 doesn't have an intercooler. It has a roots blower (super charger).
Check air filter gauge if it has one if not open up and check for rats nests, its happened before also possible plugged fuel filter. There is no blow off on the blower. I only am familiar with the old 71 series but believe that if it has a belt and fuel pressure and air it works.
Sorry Kent, I should have looked at your signature.
PM Dave Metzger
Been years since I been around a roots but I thought they had a pair of spring loaded waste gates on the front or rear. My 30 year old recollection has to be taken with a 10 lb grain of salt.
Is there a belt tensioner or an idler on the belt if it has one?
My memory of 0ver 30 years ago is dim also. I think they were there if the engine started to run away. Those engines could start sucking crankcase oil and take off.
Are your fuel filters good and clean? Dirty fuel filters will cause loss of power. The 6V92 turbo feeds air into the blower underneath,The blower is gear driven. Under the blower is a cooler,they can get clogged with oil buildup and restrict the air from passing through to the cylinder openings.
Finally someone who has one of these engines. I never worked on a 92 series quite different it seems.
The filter gauge is green so I guess its not an air issue.
The waste gate has been a suspicion but I have no idea how it works on this engine. Is there any way a waste gate can get stuck open? Is the waste gate controlled by the DDEC?
I'm thinking that the fuel filters may be suspect. I had just refueled before this happened so I'm also considering bad fuel but I called the Loves and they claim they have had no complaints. The engine had the top end done, heads etc. in April this year. Less than 1000 miles. Would that work affect the blower and the cooler. Could an error in reassembly have caused this?
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It's the fuel filters. This has happened to me. I had semis passing me on hills! (laugh) The primary fuel filter is super easy to change, and that might fix it. The secondary fuel filter is way up high so the fuel runs down your arm and you smell like a real mechanic for a couple of days afterward. Open the small door at the far rear of the coach on the passenger side and you'll see filters in there. The one with the black knob beside it is the primary fuel filter. The black knob is the primer pump. If you can't get the primer pump to work anymore don't despair, your engine will still start right up if you fill the new filter with diesel before you install it. The other filter without the black knob beside it is the coolant filter. The secondary fuel filter is at the far rear of the engine on the driver's side way up high so you can barely reach it. Even if you fill the secondary fuel filter with diesel you'll still have to crank a long time to get the engine to start. I suggest changing the primary fuel filter to see if that fixes it, unless you really want a diesel bath? Order both filters and carry them with you at all times from now on.
Kent,
I think Stump might be on to something. Maybe the low boost is a symptom.
Maybe I'm wrong but I think if you had low boost pressure (due to bad turbo, etc.) you would see a lot of black smoke. Since you are not that would indicate full fuel flow is not happening.
You didn't mention if you saw any fault codes from the DDEC.
I doubt there's anything in the DDEC that could directly cause low boost. The DDEC has many inputs but really on one output: fuel control. Attached is a simplified diagram.
Looking at the diagram the throttle position sensor (i.e the gas pedal) could be bad. The VMS should read it with only the ignition on. Should go from 0 to 100% when pedal is floored.
I suppose it could also be the boost sensor itself. You should see a code though.
I had something similar happen after I worked on my engine but the symptoms sound a little different but I explain what happened anyway just in case. While crawling around on the engine my foot must have unclipped an electrical connector. It was the throttle position sensor to the transmission. The engine seemed sluggish as I was driving on surface streets around the neighborhood. When I got on the freeway on-ramp I knew something wasn't right since it was extremely slow to accelerate and I canceled my trip and turned back home. What I didn't realize what that it was not downshifting. It took me weeks to figure out it was just this little connector with a few wires that was disconnected by only about 1/4 inch. It's located on the passengers side, longitudinally about where the bell housing ends. It's one of those weather-tight connectors with a green accordion looking seal on it. I didn't have the VMS back then so i don't know what happened with the boost.
In regards to previous work causing this: Hard to say. I have pulled my blower before to inspect the intercooler for debris - it was clean. The engine was pretty easy to work on and seemed hard to mess up. If it were me I would pull the boot off the turbo intake just to take a look at it and verify it spins OK and there is no blockage or anything else strange.
There is a bypass for the blower. The blower provides primary pressure at low RPMs and the turbo at high RPMs. When turbo pressure exceeds blower pressure the bypass kicks in. I believe it's a 1-1/4" diameter can thing with a small green hose attached to it. I really don't know much more about it.
Good luck
After some research I agree with craneman, there is most likely not a waste gate or pressure relief... I was mistaken by what I seen on a bogus show car, and it stuck in my mind as I am more turbo oriented. Air filter indicator may be stuck or faulty due to lack of sealing. Boils down to fuel supply, air supply restriction including the under blower charge cooler plugged somehow. Most of these pretty simple fixes. BTW does the crankcase ventilation go thru the roots and after cooler?
@Kent,
Do easy things first. Pull boot on turbo. Can be easily done from the back of the coach. 2 large hose clamps. Visually inspect turbo for impact damage, wiggle it around checking for play, and check that it spins easily. If nothing there change out the fuel filters. Use your judgement here. If they've been in for a year or more just change em' it's time anyway. :)
I'm inclined to agree that with no smoke it's could easily be a fuel problem.
Good luck. Let us know what you find.
see ya
ken
Change the primary fuel filter and see if that fixes it. It'll take you a whole minute to do this. If that doesn't fix it change the secondary fuel filter. There's nothing wrong with your DDEC, your turbo, your supercharger, or anything else. You need to change your fuel filter because it's plugged. It happens at least every 30.,000 miles or more often. Thousands of dollars of expensive VMSPC toys won't diagnose this. It's just a plugged fuel filter. Carry both fuel filters with you from now on and change the primary fuel filter the first time you notice power loss climbing steep hills.
Latest update. I am at a diesel shop in central MO. Seems like they really know what they are doing. We have changed fuel filters and air filter to no avail. There is no wast gate on this engine. The are checking for air box leaks now but still don't know what the problem is. Next is to start on the Turbo itself. Will let everyone know when I do.
Could the muffler be completely stopped up
On my big truck when I lost boost from the turbo it was a bad boost sensor. Don't know if these engines are set up the same.
Roland
Ouch I smell coach bucks. :(
see ya
ken
Can you look in the air box to see if it is plugged?
Pardon me, but is that a turbo or a supercharger we're talking about? :-\
The DD 6V92 has BOTH. Supercharger for low speed, turbo higher speed.
Remember, it is a two stroke engine, so the supercharger is what scavenges the exhaust out of the cylinders.
Brett is right...both! Since the 6v92 is a 2 stroke engine it needs the supercharger to build crankcase pressure at start up. After the engine is running and the turbo winds up there is a bypass for the supercharger. I'm not exactly sure how that works but pretty sure once the turbo builds enough pressure a "waste gate" type valve opens and takes the supercharger out of the air flow. If anyone has more details please speak up.
see ya
ken
Depends on the year/model. Some have blower bypass and some don't.
There are these valves on the air box on each side that let oil leak out when the engine is off (or at idle) but close up when the engine is running under power. When the engine is off (or at idle) a light spring holds the valve open. When the engine is running hard the air box pressure and flow overcome the spring and it seals so you don't loose boost pressure. See attached.
Well, still stuck in Danville, MO.
So far we have changed fuel filters, the air filter, checked fuel pressure (20 psi at idle and 70 psi at 2200 rpm), checked fuel restrictor in fuel return fuel line, pulled the boot and checked the turbo, tightened the exhaust manifold bolts and all turbo flanges, checked the DDEC and cleared any codes, also unplugged all electrical 12V and 110 for an hour to clear DDEC, checked the turbo boost sending unit and tightened the hose, checked the blower housing and the air box inspection plates for leaks, checked the accelerator pedal for full throttle and put in a double dose of diesel injector cleaner. My best guess right now is I got bad fuel from Loves in Booneville, MO or the turbo pressure sensor is bad or less likely may be that something is wrong with the super charger or the fuel line has partially collapsed internally but I doubt that I could get 70 psi at the secondary fuel filter if it was collapsed.
Sooo, if anybody else has any idea, please let me know. I'm going to try to get to Granite City, IL tomorrow. I was able to get the coach up to 62 today. Maybe its healing itself.
Kent did they check the Air Box Drain Tube Valves John Fitz posted just above,If these are sticking open you won't build turbo boost.
Thy are open at idle and are supposed to close as pressure builds up. Simple cleanouton them all described in JF's post above.just a thought.
Had similar issue with my ISM Cummins, turned out to be the intake boost senser. Would not turn on fuel until it saw turbo boost pressure.
Kent,what exactly was done on your redone,have you checked valve clearence?
Kent - did you happen to notice the coolant (water) temperature when you started losing power, I don't know about the Detroit but some diesel engines will loose significant power it the thermostat sticks open. As mention earlier an exhaust restriction can cause power loss, baffles can collapse, kids can fill the muffler hole with toys or other stuff. Also check for leaks in the system between the turbo and the intake manifold. Hope you get going, and thanks for taking the time to reply to my questions on your former U225.
Drains have been checked by a mechanic but I will check them again today.
I will be removing the turbo boost sensor today and trying to locate a new one. This seems to be the most likely culprit.
The coolant temp at the time of the occurrence was 178. I just installed a new auxiliary radiator to improve cooling so I was watching the temps. I had just filled the fuel 60 before and was on the longest and steepest uphill in central Missouri when this started.
Although it appears that there is normal exhaust flow through the muffler, this is still fairly high on the list of suspects.
What was done in the spring was removal of the heads for new head gaskets, reset the rack and a seal kit for the air compressor. But a two stroke mechanic and I both have inspected and checked all connections and bolt heads for tightness.
Bye the way, we made it out of Danville, MO and are at a friends house in Granite City, IL. just across the Mississippi from St. Louis.
This gives me more access to tools and parts. On the drive here I was able to coax the old girl up to 65 mph but she was still very weak on even the slightest hill. She reached 15 psi turbo boost at 2200 rpm but seemed to have very little low end power. Boost through the lower gears was 5 psi in first, 9 psi in second and again 15 psi shifting from 3rd to 4th. She would run around 9 or 10 psi at 65 doing 1700 rpm. Seems like she's kinda healing herself but she's still to weak for really big hills.
Any Thoughts???
Kent,
It sounds like this power loss started after about 6 or 7 gallons (60 miles) of that new fuel went through your engine.
You say it seems to be getting better as you drive more miles. Could that be wrong fuel mixing in with what you had in the tank?
I am wondering if you got #2 diesel?
Or maybe diesel and gasoline?
You seem to have checked fuel and air available to the engine but still have low power.
JD
Thought #2 diesel was the one we want as opposed to what?
I think something was not assembled correctly when this head work was done.
#2 diesel is what we want, but not with gasoline. Gasoline has been dropped into the diesel tanks at a station before.
If that happened at that station I would think they would know it by now!
Still wondering about that fuel. Didn't thIngs really go down hill after the last fuel up?
I think I have ruled out bad fuel. The generator runs fine.
I took some gas one time (my fault), called Cummins, who told me if it was a couple of gallons, no big. Otherwise, pump it out. Is that a Garrett turbo?
Still sounds like the same problem I had with my Pete bad boost sensor.
Roland
Here is a old thread on another site
http://www.dieselenginetrader.com/diesel_talk/messageview.cfm?catid=9&threadid=3299
I ordered a new TBS yesterday. Due in on Tuesday so no more news until then.
Kent this might sound silly but is the boost sensor wire connector plugged in? I have had mine come off once on my big truck.
I didn't get the clip completely hooked when I reconnected it
Yes the wire was firmly connected but I still pulled it, cleaned it and reinstalled it. What I discovered is that the Turbo Boost Switch bracket and therefore the switch must be installed no more than 30 degrees from vertical. This is so the tubing is running uphill to the sensor so if any oil or water gets into the tubing from the blower housing it won't drain into the TBS and contaminate it. I found that the switch was mounted almost 90 degrees, vertical, and that the tubing was old and not firmly attached at either end. If air leaks from the tubing the sensor cannot get a good reading. I cut both ends of the tubing to make a new connection and added one clamp that was missing and tightened the other. I did a test drive and still low power. I then ordered the new TBS since I fear the old one got contamination in it due to the faulty install. When the new one arrives I will take off the TBS bracket and bend it to the appropriate angle and reinstall it and add a new longer tube that will allow for the uphill angle into the TBS. I sure hope this fixes the problem. We will find out next week.
Kent Clark Diesel jn Pontoon Beach,Il might have that switch in stock.
Clarke Power Services | Pontoon Beach- IL (http://www.clarkepowerservices.com/locations/illinois/pontoon-beach-il)
Stump, thanks for the lead. We are setting in Pontoon Beach, IL right now. I've already ordered and paid for the part in St. Louis but if I need more help I will contact them Monday.
Update, Tuesday has come and gone. I did get my new turbo boost sensor (TBS-$150) and installed it yesterday, NO CHANGE. I am now setting at Central Power System, LaDue, MO. They are the Detroit Two Stroke Dealer/Distributor for this territory. Clarke mentioned by Stump is the four stroke Detroit Dealer/Distributor and does nothing on 6V92's. So far Central has been great to deal with and seems to be a first class outfit. I will post again as soon as we find the problem.
Hang in there! It's just a machine...somebody will figure it out.
Total guess but I had an 89 unihome u300 be slow because the factory had not hooked up the three wires in the engine bay around the edge. The connectors had double sealing rings on the male ends.
Turns out the connectors were from the ATEC trans to the DDEC engine.
Without a trans signal the engine went into limp mode. 80% power.
No fault codes either.
The lack of signal made the motor down adjust to a damaged trans.
Not sure if you have the same connectors or even the same system.
Bob, I think that is the same thing that happened to me. I posted about in reply 14 of this thread.
My transmission wouldn't kick down when stepping on the pedal. Felt like major loss of power.
Sorry for the delay in resolving this thread. We have not had reliable internet service for some time.
Thanks to everyone for their ideas to fix my coach. After trying to fix things the simple way I finally limped into Central Power Systems in Maryland Heights (St. Louis), MO. They are the two stroke Dealer/Distributor for Detroit Diesel for the area. I don't think I have ever had better service anywhere. The next day they brought in their 6V92 specialist Randy from the Springfield, MO branch to work on my engine. He was fully equipped with the laptop software for the DDEC electronic engine control. Within 10 minutes he determined that two injectors were faulty, one not operating at all and the other sporadically at 30% average. When he pulled the valve covers he found a number of other problems that related back to the head work I had done in NAC in April. The worst of the problems were broken snap rings and valve keepers. After further examination the shop determined that some wrong parts were installed. After reassembly with the right parts the coach is running very well. I called Bernd in NAC and told him what had happened. He told me that those parts were what was sent to him by his supplier and he readily agreed to cover my cost for the repairs. I will take the wrong parts to him when I go back to NAC next month. Bernd has worked on my coach since he was in Lufken, TX and his response to stand behind his work is exactly what I expected of him.
The bottom line is that 6V92's don't run very well on four cylinders. That new injectors cost about $900 each. And for great diesel engine and generator service around St. Louis contact Will at Central Power Systems. They also have branches in Springfield, MO, Kansas City, Wichita and Western Oklahoma.
Man is it nice to go up hills with full power again.
Great outcome!!!
What was the part number on the injectors?
Stump, thanks for asking about the injectors. In looking up the part number,
R5234985 I found that the actual price charged for the injector was $534.40, core charge was $250 each but because they were the Detroit Distributor they kept the old injectors and I was not charged for the cores. The $900 I quoted earlier was what the shop had originally quoted me over the phone, including the core. In the end I believe they charged me their fleet prices to help me out. Like I said, they were great to deal with.
One additional note, the shop that tried to help me in Central Missouri was Pierson and Sons Trucks in New Florence, MO. Phone 573-835-3381. Alan Pierson is a very experienced Detroit Two Stoke Mechanic. The toy outside of his office door is a 12V Detroit Two Stroke. Wow was that thing loud.
The only reason they couldn't find the problems was that they didn't have the sophisticated electronic equipment and they didn't have time to tear into the engine. They did however spend six hours going over the simple possible causes and the external possibilities like the turbo-pressure sensor. FWIW
Kent,
Glad to hear all is well and Bernd reimbursed you for the problems his repairs caused and stood behind his work. What was going on back in April that caused you to have to bring it into his shop? Did he do a diagnostic test on the cylinders/injectors to determine that the head needed to be redone or the injectors were going bad? I'm amazed it ran at all with a couple of bad injectors for that long.
Thanks,
Jerry
"Glad to hear all is well and Bernd reimbursed you for the problems his repairs caused and stood behind his work. What was going on back in April that caused you to have to bring it into his shop? Did he do a diagnostic test on the cylinders/injectors to determine that the head needed to be redone or the injectors were going bad? I'm amazed it ran at all with a couple of bad injectors for that long."
YES, could you explain, please !!
Kent- glad to hear you are back in full power operation now. Nothing more frustrating than having problems and not being able to get them fixed. I am glad Bernd stood behind his work and is making things right for you. Hope you and Peggy enjoy your travels.
Cya down the road
^.^d ^.^d
Kent, I am happy to see your problem has been resolved and that Bernd will be taking care of the repair costs. I have never dealt with him but if ever in his neighborhood I will not hesitate to call him.
Tony
Hi Kent!
Was it the DDEC software that solved your problem? And the previous shops did not have it? I ask because a shop I know of told me he hadn't seen a DDEC in the last five years. He looked around and found a Nexiq Pro Link with the DDEC Cartridge. I should have it tomorrow. I'm just curious if you think the first shop you visited had that tool if they would have found your injector problem right away.
My son-in-law just bought a BB Wanderlodge with an 8v92. and I am thinking this setup will allow him to read diagnostic codes, reset them and do injector tests, etc.
Hi to Peggy
Dick
Yes it will Dick. he will be able to kill each cylinder. clear codes, read codes, see injector response times,etc
Dick,
You can also use to it to monitor road speed, mpg, coolant temp, boost psi, trip data, and many other parameters. It also has a trigger function you can program to try and determine what is causing an event. It will store data and you can print it out if you have one. I leave mine plugged in all the time and also use it to set the idle to 1000 rpms when needed. With the ATEC cartridge you can monitor the trans. It's been an excellent tool to have for continuous monitoring of the DDEC and well worth what I paid for it. Every time you use it you're saving shop fees!
Jerry
Well, we got the Pro Link, it does say 9000 on the back. It wasn't exactly what I expected in that it is totally self contained with a small screen that you move around using Function and arrow keys. I had thought it would connect to a laptop. At any rate it works fine.
Stump & Jerry, you obviously know a lot more about this tool than we were able to figure out during our first use. It came with zero instructions.
Does anyone have a copy of the User's Manual to share?
I think well worth the $100 I paid for it including shipping.
Thanks Dick
Dick. get hold pf Pierce Stewart as I am sure that is the one he has had for a few years.
JohnH
Dick,
What version of DDEC is shown on the cartridge? What year Wanderlodge is it?
Do you have the correct interface plug for the DDDL (Detroit Diesel Data Link) under the dash and cable to go with it? My interface plug is a 12 pin. When you plug it in and turn on the ignition it should power up and tell you what version DDEC software you have.
I have the Pro- Link 9000 manual for both DDEC I&II and DDEC II& III if you need a copy.
You can connect a compatible printer or terminal ( DEC VT-100) using the RS232 port on the right side of the reader. It takes a special cable to do that (4P4C handset to RS 232 25 pin). You might possibly be able to connect to a laptop with an RS232 input and a VT-100 terminal emulator but I haven't tried that yet. It's out dated hand held technology, but very reliable. One of our resident old school computer experts might chime in and help us!
Jerry
Haven't been reimbursed yet but he has committed to do so. I sent him copies of the repair invoices explaining what they found. We agreed that I would bring him the wrong parts when we come back to NAC in November and he will write me a check then. I have had Bernd work on our coach for many years and I trust he will keep his word. If not I certainly will let you know.
I had taken the coach to Bernd back in April for routine maintenance. He noticed that one of the head gaskets was leaking and bulging so I had him replace the head gaskets, and several other PM items and to install new air bags. While the heads were off he did an inspection of the engine and gave it a clean bill of health. It appears that his parts supplier sent him the wrong parts (I call them snap rings but the mechanic in St . Louis call them keepers) that broke and started a cascade of other problems under the valve covers.
Why it ran as good as it did when I picked the coach up from Bernd was because more of the wrong parts broke as I drove it. I did let him know I thought it didn't have as much power as before as soon as we drove it home from NAC. I was to take it back to him in November for him to check it out not knowing about the potential of wrong parts breaking. Had the second injector not dropped out I think I could have made it back to NAC.
The problem wasn't fun but stuff happens. As long as I am reimbursed I am a HAPPY CAMPER.
Hope that answers your questions.
Jerry it is the DDEC 1/2 and I would sure appreciate a copy of the manual.
Dick
shanahand65@gmail.com
Kent,
Thanks for the explanation as to the original problem. Just a case of bad luck for all concerned. Bernd sounds like an honest kind of guy that appreciates your letting him make things right when he makes a mistake. He could have blamed it on the parts supplier and tried to "pass the buck". He obviously cares more about his reputation than the money involved.
Jerry
Dick,
You got it!
The Pro-Link 9000 is a very powerful tool and once you learn how to use it you won't leave home without it. The user guide for the DDEC cartridge will explain all of it's features in detail. I haven't used any of the reprogramming capabilities of it but I have run cylinder cut-out and injector tests. It has a memory and you can even customize your own data list, road trip and test results to print out when needed.
Jerry
Many of you wanted me to post the final results of this saga. I finally made it back to NAC last week. I took the coach back to Bernd due to an oil leak and to settle up on the summer problems. I am happy to say Bernd did exactly what he said he would. After I turned over the damaged parts so he could make a claim to his Part Supplier, Bernd gave me a check to cover all out of pocket expenses from the repair in Missouri. There was no arguing over the amount and in fact I still consider him a friend and a very honest man. He also diagnosed and fixed an oil leak at no charge to help ameliorate some of my summer frustrations. Bernd is still my mechanic in NAC,
Regarding how it happened I understand Brad's mechanic's point on some parts but I don't see how one could expect a mechanic to notice a difference of a couple of thousandths in snap rings. The parts house sold them to Bernd as the correct ones but they were not. I trust he will be able to get reimbursed by the parts supplier for the money he gave to me as reimbursement for the additional repairs and damage the wrong parts caused.
I left NAC today for Florida and the coach runs better than ever. We really love the old girl. We are grateful that NAC still has Foretravel and so many good shops to keep our old coaches running and looking like new.
Merry Christmas to all.
Everyone makes mistakes. How they back it up is all that matters. Happy to hear it worked out.
In a case like this - it is likely Bernd takes a hit. Another reason why shop keepers hate come backs,
The best parts houses warranty the parts they sell. Generally the parts houses that lead with price, use lower quality aftermarket parts, and are more problematic getting warranty reimbursement. Policy's vary, but in the best case (we use NAPA for a lot of parts at Honest-1, the quality is good, the warranty is as good as it gets in the industry (which I will explain in a bit) and the relative hassle of warranty reimbursement is low. (I say "relative" because even NAPA has a bit of a cumbersome process to get warranty paid.)
On warranty reim bursement the best the parts houses will reimburse via a store credit the shopkeeper about 65% of the labor on the bill and the cost of the parts. So in this case, Bernd will likely get back about 2/3 of the labor on the second shop's ticket and roughly 50% of the parts value of the ticket. He might be able to get a check for this amount, but more than likely it will be a credit against future purchases.
So, in a nutshell, he is out of pocket on the reimbursement for a portion of the parts and labor (granted there was profit in the first repair that was not done correctly) and he could have a fair amount of money tied up as a future credit at his parts supplier. With us at NAPA it wasn't a big deal, lots of parts bought each day from NAPA, so credits were used up almost immediately. May not be the case with Bernd and his supplier.
This is all supposition, but it is how it warms in the car repair business. So, you can see why shop keepers hate "come backs" as much as consumers. When a firm like Bernd's just does the right thing even though it is costing them some $$$, it speaks to the integrity of the ownership.
Yes, it is a pain in the butt to have to take something back, but when thinking about repairs or mistakes, I like to recall the scripture "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". If you have never made a mistake, I guess it is fair to hold others to that expectation. Having made my share, I look at how frequent do you hear about an issue with a shop, and what is the resolution when the crap hits the fan.
My story on MOT is similar. I had them put on 8 airbags. Took it to Bernd's shop, and they punted out two of the fronts were put on incorrectly - the air valves were exposed to damage if the front tires blew, a newer mechanic at MOT had put the air lines back in a way that was more convenient, not knowing the less convenient routing was that way for a reason. MOT was closed (it was Saturday) and Bernd was trying to get me on the road with a transmission seal and other stuff. I asked him to fix the MOT created issue, which he did (his guys actually worked Sunday on a three day weekend to get me going!!!). Bernd and his guys did a very good job on the fuel line replacement, the transmission output shaft seal, 120K valve adjustment, a couple of odd and ends and the re-do of the two front air bag lines.
When I called MOT, they agreed immediately to make it right, offering a credit towards future purchases. When I said I wasn't sure how long it would be before I was back in NAC, they immediately agreed to credit the amount to my credit card. Case closed, another happy outcome from my perspective, great response by MOT and Bernd.
Others may have different experiences and perspectives, I welcome hearing them.
Glad you got it fixed Kent,I am sure the prior owner is happy that the coach is in such good hands and getting so much use.
Jerry owns a print shop in Gulfport and produces a manual better than the OEM supplied with the Pro-Link 9000. As you may have found out, the manual is hard to find and is quite expensive on ebay when available. He is super sharp on both the manual and the 9000 itself.
Connecting the Pro-Link is easy and just requires plugging it in and turning the coach key on. The hardest thing is going under the driver's seat to plug it in to the coach port. It can also be utilized for a 1000 fast idle, something that is not available from the cruise control on our U300s. Any Pro-Link reader (the part you look at) will work but the cartridge that slides into the back is unique for each vehicle. Either a DDEC I-II or a DDEC II-III cartridge will work with our DDEC II 6V-92TA engines. Tough to find the cartridge for a good price but with a bit of persistence, it can be done. If it does not come with the 12 pin GM to 16 pin OBD 2 adapter, here is what it looks like. Available as seen here or in a one piece unit (like I have) and costs from $10 to $60 depending on where you buy it. The under dash port can be moved a couple of inches to make it more convenient to access. Topcartool Obddiy Gm 12pin Obd2 Cable, Gm 12 Pin Obd To 16 Pin Obdii... (http://www.dhgate.com/product/topcartool-obddiy-gm-12pin-obd2-cable-gm/377775725.html ) One piece adapter example at: http://www.diagnosticsuperstore.com/p-26072-nexiq-12-pin-gm-adapter.aspx
The electronic injectors for the U300s are expensive as there are only a couple of places that re-manufacture them in the U.S. The all mechanical injectors are super cheap and I have replace all of them for the price of one electronic injector.
Will try and make a YouTube video of connections and functions but no promises as my list is very long.
Pierce
We had the same type issues at FOT. Replaced our large awning material. Changed color as we will be replacing all awning materials which are in great shape. DW just wants a different color (go figure). Had a small leak at the toilet. Came back to pick-up coach and got ready to leave and DW says, "Lets see how the awning looks". Unrolled the awning and it was the same color as before. OOPS. Parts mistake, not one question was asked, they ordered the right color and that was that. On the toilet, all seals were replaced. Left, still leaking. Called in ordered a new toilet. FOT refunded all toilet repair charges. Bad news for FOT, we are running out of thing to replace or remodel. Beside that DW has banned David F and I from conversing as we have reached our CB limit for 2016.
John
Come on 2017
My wife is banned from talking to David for the rest of her life. :)
see ya
ken