We are at Xtreme and their work should be finished today. As luck would have it the living room slideout bladder ruptured today so it won't seal. Isaac at Old Town said he could replace it this week except FOT doesn't have one in stock. I am presently waiting on a call back from HWH concerning availability, but Isaac mentioned 6-week wait and problems with quality control.
We are planning to tape the slide opening and head for the hills (of East Tennessee) while we wait to get a bladder. We go to Florida before Christmas and in the event that we have a new bladder who would be a good choice to have install it? The only name that comes to mind is Parliament Coach.
Paul Yasbeck in Leesburg Fl, phone # 813.382.0869. Paul has performed all the service on our coach including the slides since we purchased our coach and I have always been 100% satisfied with his work.
Does he stock any Bladders?
Not that I'm aware of, he has always ordered parts from HWH once problem is diagnosed. Example our coach is there now and he is waiting for HWH to send an equalizer cylinder for our living room slide. They do not have any in stock, he was told it would be two weeks. You might want to give him a call.
There are a lot of coaches that require HWH
bladders, and other parts. They need to get their stuff together IMHO.
I'll try giving him a call when I hear from HWH.
Been waiting almost 2 hours now.
Thank you for your input.
I agree...a good business person manages their inventory but having 0 bladders in inventory is another story.
Are there no good aftermarket options for this part?
Please note that there are lots of different sizes of slide bladders on lots of different motorhomes. I wonder how many different bladder sizes they have produced over the years. HWH is a good company and have helped many on this forum with technical help at NO CHARGE. Even Amazon runs out of stock sometimes. Let's not bash HWH.
Understand your frustration, it's the reason I went to HWH to get my slide bladder replaced.
They got me in early, give me a ride to hotel ( 15miles ) finished early and under budget !
They had the bladder inflated overnight to check for leaks and planned to have another manufactured that morning if it was leaking.
As I said understand your frustration but my experience was very positive
It is frustrating trying to communicate with them sometimes.
How much $$ is just a bladder, with no labor? Say for living room and bedroom.
Is it a worthwhile consideration to just stockpile a spare knowing that sooner or later the coach will need it, current owner or next owner?
Ball park, a couple grand each +/-. They might be hard to store for the eventuality that you might need it. It is definately not a DYI project. We are just shy of 16 years on our original LR slide bladder. We are only 5 hrs from HWH so if I need one I will just go there.
HWH is probably 3-4 days from almost anywhere. Appointment are usually only a few weeks out. And it takes that long to make a gasket to fit. If there is any other issue that is the place to go anyway.
I see Dave's comment below. We are at about 700 nights since we bought our coach, at least 150 in/out cycles without any issues goining in or out ever. We did have a sluggish deflation issue. Knocking on wood. If we are just overnighting we usually don't put it out.
The slide issue was my biggest disappointment with my 2001 320, 36' I learned to only extend it when it was in the garage, never extended it after I got stuck at Camp Foretravel with it out, unable to retract it. MOT charged me $350.00 to hit the motor with a hammer and it retracted. That was the last time it was extended when not in the garage.
Never had a bladder issue.
Happy others have better luck.
(wonder if this gets removed too)
I think our air bladder cost about $1200.00 for our bedroom not sure for our livingroom - Labor for the install is extra and is contingent upon shop cost hours.
I would suppose that one could pre-purchase and hold until needed but do not know how they would react to the environment. Our large slide was replaced 4 years ago and our bedroom slide was replaced about 1 1/2 years ago. So the slides lasted 10+ years.
Must add:
Recently a FoFum member had both of his bladders replaced at MOT and was told that HWH now requires that the Bladder manifold(s) also must be replaced at about $700.00+/- each. There is one manifold per slide bladder.
And that would be me. Labor for living room bladder, $1242.00, bladder, $1620.00 and vacuum block, $583.24.
Labor for bedroom bladder, $1035.00, bladder, $871.39 and vacuum block, $723.21. Another $200.00 or so for tape, primer slot cover. So total for new slide bladders, both slides was $6274.84. Not cheap (but so was the roof I had put on S & B before we sold it) but shouldn't be bothered with that repair for many years. I was very pleased with the service I got from MOT.
As I do agree with you that everyone runs out of stock.. My first discussion would be why they need to have so many in stock in the first place(always failing)? PO had the bladder replaced about 7 yrs ago and I am trying to get them replaced now.. Months out of stock is a little long considering some ppl live in these. I have had mine in the shop for the last 3 weeks waiting on a bladder and the closest estimate is about a week to 2 weeks approx.. Unless they just had a run on bladders all at one time im not sure why the hold up.. Kinda sucks when you cant find parts and cant use the Coach for a couple months because of a issue like this. Not to mention the danger of flooding or water leaks on the inside of the coach.
Kinda surprised when they told me 3 weeks at a minimum for such a large company.. But on a good note ... they always call back and they are always nice on the phone.
This is true.. if you do not replace the manifold at the same time you do not get a warranty. Per HWH
I suspect they are made to order or in limited batches - not sure if they make in house or buy from a vendor. Probably a lot of iterations over the years, meaning many SKU's with relatively slow movement. Lets face it, they are in the business to make money - if it was good business to keep a lot in stock they would.
I agree it is a PITA to not have them available - MOT or FOT should stock at all times, since they know which ones move and they put in a lot of them.
They are Made in house per HWH. Hard to sell if they do not have any stock. Now I have been a member of this forum for a few months now and have seen a few bladders needed in that time. Coincidence? Not sure as I have not owned nor been around long enough to guess on that one.
I think my main point was if they need a lot of them then maybe the design has a flaw .
Mine was replaced due to FOD. Foreign object damage. Also age takes it toll, if original, mine would be old enough to drive. Already replaced fuel lines, air bags and tires due to age, why not bladder? More maintenance to these slides vs. other designs, but wouldn't say "flawed" and much quieter fooling down road
We may have dodged the bullet this time. What looked like a tear in the bladder apparently isn't. I checked it carefully last night with a flash light and do not see a tear anywhere. Additionally, the bladder is completely sealed now. Thinking it may have been not enough air pressure
so the bladder wasn't fully inflating on a radiused corner
with the largest reveal. When we leave here in a few minutes were headed over to Old Town where Isaac is going to check out the system and also try to locate a clunk in the front axle area.
Pleased to hear the good news , hopefully the clunking is easy fix .
Come to think of it , ours has a clunk on potholes??
Travelin' Man -
Glad to hear that you have "dodged the bullet". Now the question is: Will you order air bladders and replace them before they fail? :D
Hopefully only one may fail as the bedroom bladder is only three years old, replaced by PO.
I will probably wait to see if HWH can get a handle on their QC, as I understand there have been numerous failures lately. Rance just told me that one fix for installations is to reduce air pressure to 3psi.......... but that's hardly any pressure at all. I put a gauge on the bedroom bladder and adjusted the pressure to 15psi
to get a better seal. HWH told me that the new bladders can take 16psi.
Did you locate your front end clunk ???
"Normally" if a slide bladder has a leak, the aux compressor will run and run and run. Now, if it was fully inflated and you saw light around it, I would have Isaac check if he can to make sure the adhesive tape that holds the bladder in place hasn't failed. IIRC, George Hatfield had that happen with his some years ago. Slide Service (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=12110.msg62491#msg62491)
No, but they tightened two axle mounting bolts that were a tad loose. The crew at Old Town were really knowledgeable and helpful, especially Isaac, who worked on the slide out problem, test drove the coach and then went underneath and inspected the front end. He didn't want payment for his work, but we insisted.
I'd say Old Town Coach will be a major player in Coach Buck City soon.
MOT had our coach bladder in stock, it is the 160 inch slide. There are several size options on the LR slide.
The block has to be replaced as the new design bladder is a different and more durable material than the original and takes less pressure to inflate, and it also has a different diameter fitting to the block.
Our leak was only manifested by a failure of the top corner of he slide bladder to stay full.....it would leak down and you could see the outside sky over the period of about an hour, then the aux compressor came on. Another tell tale sign was the length of time to bring the third tank to full pressure. At the higher pressure, the more the leak. You can be fooled....the side of the slide, that bladder, seemed firm but it was going out. One easy test.....fill the tank, then shutoff the valve to the bladder....watch the pressure, it may take several hours but going down at all is a leak at the bladder or the valve or in the block. Spray soapy water to find it.
mike
Mike, you must have a gauge that indicates pressure?
I put one on my bedroom slide bladder last year when having a problem and I'm planning to put one on the living room bladder when I get back home, then I will try the leak down test.
T-man, we have one slide. The gauge is at the aux compressor and monitors the third air tank, the tank that supplies air to the bladder and leveling.
I normally would drop from 85 psi full to about 65 psi which was the trigger point to re-pressurize.
With the small leak, it dropped from 85 to about 78 psi in four minutes, but the rate of drop seemed to decrease but in an hour or two had to refill. To continue the stay where we were, i turned off the valve to cyt tge leak out of the system and thus keep air to leveling.
Others may have used a better way. I thought it a bad idea to let the aux compressor continue connected to the bladder leak for if the leak became so large that the compressor ran all the time, it would fail. Replacement is very expensive. I did put the bladder back in the system tbree weeks later to deflate it.
Hope this helps but note we have an 01 and your system may operate differently.
Mike
When did they have it in stock? I have called them a couple times looking for one and they have not had for a few weeks.. Last piece of the puzzle so I can start using my motorhome.. bought in June and its been in the shop waiting on parts or repairs since
David, Wrote more about this work in bladder repair and remod work that was last month. It began with an appointment for September 6. a day or two before taking the coach in, I met with them to review the 20 items I had. In that review they asked me to measure the slide. They were not sure it a bladder leak, but when got it in and demonstrated what I thought to be a leak they agreed. However, the day or two before we delivered the coach, and I armed with the slide measurement, they checked and had that size in inventory there.
I gather from those two or three days measuring in advance, they keep some in inventory but most certainly not all. Just in September James Johnson had done ten coaches with bladder issues and that was with a few days still left in the month. With so many years and sizes of slides, I imagine it just quite lucky if they had mine in stock.
mike
In fairness to Foretravel, MOT and others who have been around longer than we have, the real reason for not having the bladders on the shelf is that HWH has been having some QC issues for some time now. HWH is a great company and over the years have shown a commitment to quality.
My understanding regarding the bladders is that the chemical compound traditionally used to create the material the bladder is made of was altered a few years ago. I do not know if HWH makes the material or purchases it from another manufacturer - but never-the-less a problem was created because of the chemical make-up of the bladder material. Why change the formula that's been working well for so long? I have no idea why it was changed, but to give HWH the benefit of the doubt (which they deserve) there must have been some logic behind it.
What I have seen over the years is that the bladders have held up very well as far as the quality of the material itself goes. The majority of the failures are caused by some type of debris creating a small puncture or tear. In some cases there can be a problem created during the installation of the bladder. For example, the channels the bladder rests in may have a small metal shaving that is overlooked during the installation of the bladder. The metal shaving may be there for months or years before it creates an issue. Regardless, the problem eventually is created by tiny, sharp debris. The bladder design and material obviously were not meant to withstand this type of trauma. The point is that TYPICALLY the material has not been an issue. As many reading this know, there are still a lot of coaches with original bladders that are 10 - 15yrs old. This is mainly because the material itself has held up very well without any external factors.
Once the chemical makeup of the material used was altered a few years ago the actual material became a problem. Even if the installation was done 100% perfectly and the bladder was never in contact with any foreign objects before, during or after installation, the material itself began to fail. For the first time the material the bladder was made of became the problem - in many cases not even being able to withstand the standard psi required to cause full inflation. HWH became aware of the issue (doesn't take long with the sudden spike in brand new slide bladders leaking) and began working on it. They are putting out good bladders now, but I believe the QC process is slower and more thorough. I believe they are testing and doing all they can to ensure quality before sending the product out, but all of this has caused them to be backed up still today. When you consider the higher number of faulty bladders out there needing replacement and the backlog of bladders needed for new coaches, you can see their predicament. Either they speed things up and keep up with the demand or they take their time to ensure each bladder produced meets their standard and the standard all of us are used to.
I do know that FOT has a handful of bladders of various sizes, but they do not have every size right now. The only thing you can do is call and give them the coach number. Otherwise it could take 6 weeks or more to get one in. I'm sure HWH will eventually get caught up and it will be business as usual. We will be keeping bladders in stock eventually, and I'm sure MOT and FOT will have better availability soon as well. I hope this information helps and does not cause too much confusion :)
-Lance
Tried that every week for the past 3 weeks and they have nothing.. No bedroom anyways..
Hope something gives soon.. Thank you for the explanation on the subject.. Great Post!!
"HWH now requires that the Bladder manifold be replaced with the bladder".
For my education, is this the manifold block in the "basement" where the compressor is located? The one with the shut off ball valve? Or is it some other item?
Yep. That's the one. 👍