We are in Troutdale, OR (just outside Portland), enjoying the beautiful area and are at a great RV park. After driving the Jeep around the Columbia Gorge area for the afternoon, we came home to find a large puddle of coolant under the radiator (I had just replaced it before leaEving for the trip). It isn't from any of the hoses or connections that I "messed with" and is clearly coming from the area around the drain. If anyone is in the area and has a shop they can recommend, I would appreciate any information. I know that Oregon was big at one time in the RV industry and Monaco may still be here, so we are hopeful that we can get this taken care of while in the area. There are worse places to be stuck.
Oregon Motorcoach in Eugene is a factory authorized Foretravel repair facility. The honor the Motorcade Club discount program. We had some routine service done there last year. The shop seemed to me to be very proficient, organized, and efficient. They have 50 amp hookups if you need to stay overnight. There is also water and a dump station available on the premises.
RV Service: Inspections, Maintenance & Repair | Oregon Motorcoach | Eugene, OR (http://oregonmotorcoachcenter.com/rv-service-eugene/)
List of owner recommended service shops. Names in red are factory authorized service centers.
http://foretravel.com/documents/Service_Center_Referral2.pdf
Thank you. They are one of two places in Eugene I plan to call Mon. morning. I need to refill the radiator and determine how much was lost; hopefully, we will be able to drive the 130 miles or so, refilling with distilled water as needed. I'm hoping that they can get to it immediately, as opposed to setting an appointment two weeks away. Glad for lower fall temps. The coolant temp on the road from Coeur d'Alene didn't exceed 180.
Sven,
Sorry to hear of your problem, but why fill with distilled water just to get you to a repair shop where they will drain it anyway??
By all means after the repair, but seems a waste of money for the short distance??
Radiators often let go around the drain fitting weld especially after they have been messed with. Glad you have help close-by.
Speedbird 1.
Distilled water is cheap. When I replaced the coolant (not cheap), I found that I could not open the petcock - the "wing" just spun, so I ignored it. What I am seeing now is a slow drip and am hoping that the source is near the bottom of the radiator where it can easily be accessed.
I would think that any radiator shop could fix your problem, or you may be able to DIY.
You might just try to tighten the inner part that the wing is (was) attached to.
Just a thought but most of the petcocks are left hand thread.
Are you saying your new radiator has a leak already? Hopefully it's just the drain valve that's loose. Good luck and enjoy the beautiful
Country.
Sven,
I hope it is just the Pet Cock that has a bad seat, or crud stuck under it, after you disturbed it, and will be an easy, and cheap fix??
Speedbird 1.
No, it is the same old radiator. I had discussed replacing it due to the corroded fins I could feel at the bottom. When I found out what they cost, we decided to wait until next year, since it wasn't leaking. I still need to get the Aqua Hot fixed. RV runs great though and I averaged 9.2 mpg from Portland to Eugene - where we are tonight.
I don't think it is the petcock. I'm concerned about forcing it out, considering how many screws and bolts I've broken so far.
How fast did you tow?
60 mph. Forgot the Jeep was back there.
We drove the 130 miles down to Eugene today after putting four gallons (two diluted ELC and two distilled water). At that time and the previous night, the leak was doing about one drop every three seconds and about two cups total by morning. When we arrived at Armitage State Park (one of the best state parks so far) it did not appear to be leaking. I'm sure the radiator isn't empty - coolant temp was 177-9 all the way down. We will give the Cummins shop in the area a call in the morning.
I know nothing about the Cummins shop in that area, and I'm not trying to put you off calling them. Just be aware that they may deny any knowledge about the radiator fitted to your coach. In a motorhome application, Cummins might supply the basic engine, but the coach builder specifies the radiator (and other ancillary components) to be used. The Cummins mechanics may have generic radiator repair skills and knowledge that will be helpful, but they probably won't know anything specific about the installation in your coach.
Sven thanks for the info. Goes in my mental files.
How well does your setup pull interstate grades at 60?
Since you're postponing radiator replacement anyway, have you tried Bars Leaks. FT would recommend the dose for you.
My expierience with bars leak is,use it as last resort,I know what your saying Amos but that junk is still in the engine passages.
Since we left the warm weather, it has done very well on 6% grades. It also helps to know when to down shift.
We brought the coach into Quality Coach (lots of Country Coaches there) for an estimate. Very nice people and top notch facility - everything sparkly and clean. They determined that the radiator core would have to be replaced. FT has the part (radiator and CAC combo) for $3698 + $1800 labor with start date a week out. I would do it (nice to save sales tax here in OR), but I want to do some rust mitigation while everything is out, so will probably wait until we get back to San Diego. Lotsa coach bucks, but I had expected to do this next year. I'm not interested in putting any "stop leak" products.
Get a second opinion at Joe's Radiator Shop, unless you know more than you let on.
Was leaking about a quart a day on my 295, Called James T. at FOT and he said put in 3 bottles of Bars Leak.
It stopped leak. I put about 20000 miles on it and no problem with leaking or overheating.
THAT is good to know!
The quote from FT for a new radiator is not out of line, and the labor rate you are getting is pretty good. A good quality truck shop where we live tells customers to plan on $2,300 for labor for a radiator.
I've never seen folks list part numbers for other brands of radiators that can be used in the FTs. Since the engines are standard diesel engines, I find it hard to believe that these Atlas radiators are the only radiator that will work.
Chris
It's the fitment that is the problem,getting the hoses to line up.etc.
50-52 on 6% interstates grades? Floored fourth?
FT Service recommended Bars Leaks for my coach------110,000 miles ago.
I was losing a quart every day on a trip, put in the recommended Barr's leaks (correctly, not in the overflow tank) after tightening the plate bolts.
After 5 years and 30K miles still no leaks. It stays in suspension, doesn't plate surfaces and only collects at the source of the leak.
Its a factory recommendation. If you would prefer spending $5500.00 over $30.00 have at it.
I've used Barr's Leaks for decades with no adverse issues. Alumaseal also.
I assume this would be recommended only if there is an active leak, not as a preventive measure? I would think our coolant filters would quickly remove any extra product from the system. In fact, would a filter change be required shortly after adding Bars Leak?
X2 on this comment. I was not a fan of this type product but after much research and FT saying it what they do for a minor leak such as mine I put in the recommended amount and no issues.
X3 - two cans - all problems gone now for 7 years.....knock on wood!
I know you've got a Cummins, but I just thought I'd mention that Detroit Diesel, Foretravel, and Stewart & Stevenson all suggested Barrs Leak so I eventually let them put it in and it worked, completely stopping the radiator leak my coach had when I first bought it... Then the fan blade exploded and I had to recore the radiator anyway... The moral of the story being that while you're worrying about stuff that never happens something you never thought of suddenly jumps up to bite you in the butt! :) ...so use the Barrs Leak, do a lot of traveling, and save your time, money, and sanity for all the other stuff you never thought of
We put in Bar's leak C16 in 2008 and the leak stopped. Now it has started up again.
Talked with Bar's Leak at their home office here in Mich. C16 has been discontinued. Is was a for maintenance and needed to be replenish every so often, which we didn't know or do.
They recommend "Radiator Stop Leak Tabs". 2 tabs per gallon of coolant capacity. Our U320 is 16 gallons.
Here is a link to Bar's Leak. Stop Oil Leak | Stop Engine Leak | Stop Transmission Leak | Stop Coolant Leak (http://barsleaks.com/our-products/?category=cooling-system-2)
The OEMs, including GM & Ford, put in the tabs at the factory.
Had leak as others mentioned, from couple lose bolts on one end radiator. MOT tighten, still bit of drip. They suggested and put in three cans of Bars Leak, also cut out filter for a time
Seems be working in short drive and some idle time
Quick question since a number of these coaches are now on their 3rd, 4th, or 5th owner...
I've been told that Bar's Leak is a one shot deal. That adding it more than once to a system can damage a system.
How can the owner of a coach tell if Bar's Leak has been added by any of the previous owners?
Chris
That stuff has been around forever. The only rig I ever used it on was my '47 GMC. After that, I learned to " FIX THE PROBLEM." ^.^d
Bar's leak recommends installing new tabs (32 in our case) every 15,000 miles.
It's quite a job to recore one of these radiators. Unless the side radiator is a lot easier, which I doubt it is, it's gonna take two guys a full day to get the radiator out, at least a day to get the radiator recored, and then two guys another day to get the radiator back in. The best possible scenario would be to drive the coach to a radiator shop that is absolutely sure they can recore the radiator and remove the radiator there. The radiator is huge and weighs 300 pounds. Most radiator shops won't have any experience with a radiator this size, so be sure they know what they're doing before you start. It will probably cost a couple thousand dollars to recore the radiator. I doubt you can buy a replacement radiator. You'll probably have no choice but to recore your existing radiator. Foretravel's parts department would know if there's a replacement radiator available. I'm only commenting from my personal experience recoring my radiator. Your experience could be significantly different because you have a side radiator, but I sure doubt it... Personally, I'd use the Barrs Leak and see if that fixes it. Most people on this forum have never replaced a radiator in a car let alone a diesel pusher motor coach. I would sooner take advice from Foretravel or a radiator shop with experience with this size radiator.
Foretravel owners can contact Atlas radiator in Corpus Christi (the company who built many of the radiators in our coaches) directly and they will manufacture either just a radiator, or the combination radiator with charged air cooler. Lead time can be 6-8 weeks because these will be per order builds. They will ship the radiator to wherever it is needed.
To build a radiator they need the model number of the existing radiator off of the tag/plate on the existing radiator.
There are radiator shops that deal specifically with heavy industry vehicles like transit busses, fire trucks, 18 wheelers, etc. They should be able to recore these units if the rest of the unit is still in good shape. When I called Atlas they suggested that having the existing radiator recored would be a less expensive and faster solution. They did not mention trying to use Bar's Leak or any other leak product.
Chris
Any "leak fixer" additive is a bandage and can catastrophically fail at any time down the road.
I had to replace two radiators in my lifetime due to ignorance of the changes in manufacture and the anti-pollution changes in our cars & trucks.
Not knowing about the higher engine operating temps since around '80, the larger radiator requirements needed to dissipate heat, the tin/solder ratio changing from 90% tin/10% solder, to 50/50 ratio, and the caustic effects on the newer solder due to the antifreeze failing because of the higher temps and the decreased resistance of the 50/50 solder mix to the acidic antifreeze.
Since then I have, unless the antifreeze is the longer life type, or I just don't know what is in the system, changed antifreeze every three years.
Radiators are costly!! And their time of failure is really bad!
Check the PH of your antifreeze.
FOT recommended and added 3 cans of Bars leak 3 years ago. Minor leak before, none since.
Will be at FOT in December, guess I need to find out if we need a refresher.
just recored the radiator on our u320 . did the work at our shop with the help of a friend who used to work in a radiator shop. (also resealed one fan motor) the core cost 1600. it was aprox . 15 hours of work to remove, take the old radiator apart , clean the tanks, drill the holes for the tanks in the new core, clean up the area and reinstall. also did some welding on the CAC. big job .total out of pocket around 2200. plus our labor, ( need two people for an hour or two also). the radiator is a one off. no truck equivalent. had the core custom made. took only 2 days from order it to getting it. great service.
I seem to remember somebody posting about having the radiator repaired in Mexico for a VERY reasonable price.
That --Bars stuff --- really bad ---right ?? Why would Foretravel routinely put some in each new engine when installing in in a new frame ?? This is exactly what the tech at Foretravel said when ask ( 2003 ) at the install shop . I ask the manager at Cummins Atlantic about this very thing . He stated that on each rebuild that goes out their doors has two bottles of liquid bars in in . He said , always get the engine up to operating temperature , put Bars in system , run at this temp for one hour , at 1000 RPM , change filter , deliver to customer . Theory or experience ?? Brad Metzger
The radiator has a lot of brazed areas, and a lot of flanged metal to gasket to metal surface in it. Lots of possibility for leaks.
Add in the fact that there will be some flexing of the radiator in some situations, it is not surprising the companies try to "pre empt" any future problems before they might have to provide warranty work.
Have been using Barr's Leak in my vehicles for 50 years with no problems. Have found that it works or does not work within a couple of hours. Some bigger holes or cracks, or voids cannot be repaired with it.
I forgot to mention that no diesel mechanic would do the radiator removal and installation for me, which is why I had to do it myself. I guess it's too hard and diesel mechanics only want to fix stuff that's easy. Just thought you might want to consider that in your decision making.
In all fairness, I recored my radiator in 2012 and I've driven all over the country with it since then and I don't have any Barrs Leak in it, or any other sealant, and I still have zero leakage. I'm using ordinary green Prestone antifreeze, which I believe is ethylene glycol, because that's what Detroit Diesel told me to use, with the pink additive sold at the Detroit Diesel dealer, again because that's what they told me to use and they even told me the correct dosage and how often to test it. I'm not gonna post that here cuz you've got a Cummins and Detroit Diesel owners can contact their local DD dealer for that stuff... but I'd still try to seal the leak if possible instead of recoring the radiator, and I've done both and both worked well
Good question. I would like to know the answer too.
Maybe contact Bar's?
Quote"I seem to remember somebody posting about having the radiator repaired in Mexico for a VERY reasonable price"
That was me that mentioned the repair in Mazatlan, Mexico. We were stopping for the night on way south to see our Dentist and visited an RV park we knew some FTs were staying at for the winter . One of the owners (whose name now escapes me) that lives on Vancouver Island here in BC, was telling me his radiator had developed a big leak on his way down there so had a shop come out to see if it could be fixed in sit u. They said it needed a new/rebuilt core and took it all out. 2 guys did it right there. As there was no rush it came back later that week and installed. Total cost less than $500 Cndn! (exchanged from Pesos)
I spoke to a friend of his a year later and all seemed to be fine.
Maybe one of our FT owners on V Island can inform us if all is still well with it.
I would not hesitate to have mine done down there as I have looked at a couple of shops that repair them and they are just like ours, and very used to truck repairs as that is a big business in Mexico-Trucking. Gone are the old falling apart units as now mostly new or fairly new and they sound beautiful when moving.
JohnH
We just returned from out trip and will order a new radiator/CAC from Atlas. We save about $800 going direct, but will have to wait the previously mentioned 6-8 weeks. The coach performed well through all the passes in the Northwest, but overheated on the Grapevine (ambient temp was 73), just north of LA, convincing me that the radiator needed to be changed out, not just plugged. I'm looking at doing the job at home, since I have the tools, time and inclination. The deciding factor for the home replacement was that I would be able to clean out the rust that had accumulated over the years. I'm OCD about two things: rust and oil leaks.
If anyone has experience doing this on a ISM coach, I would appreciate any advise.
Sven, a few years ago I thought I was going to need a new CAC as it had 4 good sized holes in it so I called Atlas and they told me a hew one was $1100 plus shipping. Ft said $3300 + and a 6 week wait. I decided to "fix " mine and it worked out good, still solid. Did not have a rad price but was thinking you should be more than $800 better off dealing with Atlas so wondered what the prices are now on those items?
JohnH
What Bars Leak formula is being used by Foretravel?
Lon,
Call FT Parts and ask.
John, the service manager at Quality Motorcoach in Eugene said that when a radiator needed replacement, the chances of a bad CAC was about 50%. The only way to be certain would be to inspect it after it had been removed. I could order the radiator from Atlas for $2200 (6-8 weeks) and then be in a bind if I found the CAC also needed replacement. It is still serviceable, how long would it still be good before I would have to dismantle everything again? The price of the CAC hasn't changed much, apparently.
John, is the CAC just an aluminum radiator? or does it have larger passages that can be heliarced easily? How did the holes get in yours?