In my home area there is a very busy diesel shop . The owner is a friend of mine and I will say that he is very opinionated and hard core correct with his finished work . I mentioned to him about Kent's to do at Bernd's shop and his words were " what kind of a rip off garage wouldn't know what the correct parts looked like . They had the old ones there to compare them with but put them on anyway ?" Wow . Got to admit , he just find some agreement on this one . I told him that he is going to refund the money for the wrong parts . Can't print what his reply is on that one , but there was something along the lines of a "bloody nose " among other things . I feel bad for what Kent went thru . Pretty unnecessary to say the least . Brad Metzger
Preventive ideas to avoid this,procure a parts book for your engine and check the part numbers,all you need to know on this is how to read.Not sure exactly what parts were involved or where bernd's source is but sounds like the actual person working on the
engine just was not that familiar with it.
I'm not sure I am knowledgeable enough to defend Bernd's shop but my understanding is the the snap rings delivered to the shop were slightly larger than the correct ones. I certainly can see how that could go unnoticed particularly if the reinstallation was done on a different day or by a different mechanic.
I hope no one will take this experience as a reason to avoid Bernd's shop. Like I said, as long as he stands behind the mistake I am pleased with his work overall and will continue having him work on my coach.
Agreed on Bernd Recommendation.
At Honst-1 Aurora, we have two top notch ASE mechanics. They are really awesome and smart, do a great job on diagnostic and repair of very complex problems. But occasionally we get a bad part from the manufacturers (industry average is a 3% or so failure rate within 12 months) even more occasionally they don't diagnose right or fix it right the first time. (If you are perfect and have never made a mistake, you can stop reading now and continue to throw stones.) Point being, even the best shops don't get it right 100% of the time, sometimes it is their fault, sometimes it is the vendors.
What is pertinent are two questions. Does the shop have the right people, process and equipment to have a below average "come back" rate? And when the inevitable issue occurs, is the shop's response, willing, appropriate and satisfactory to the customer. Having used Bernd as a consumer, I would rate him well above average when graded on "come backs" and these customer satisfaction criteria.
For about 30 years I was in the high tech industry. Huge dollars (millions and sometimes hundreds of millions) being spent on solutions that involved process, hardware, people and (OMG) software. Mistakes were costly economically and often could impact someones career. We learned early on, try to under promise and over deliver. When you failed to meet your commitments, the only thing the customer remembered long term was how did you react to the problem, and did you stay with it and make the investments needed to make it right. Works in any business. Based on what Ken has stated, I suspect Bernd has willingly offered and will quickly make it right, and if he doesn't I am sure Ken will let us know.
It is really unfair to our vendor community for us as spectators to "bash" from long distance. Heck I don't think it wise to publicly bash anyone or thing here on the public forum, best save that for a PM or a phone call if appropriate.. The value of the forum is that we can all learn from these experiences as a group, thanks Kent for the clarification.
Don't think we are "bashing"from anywhere,just giving an opinion as to what may have happened,bad parts happen we all understand that.Wrong parts are a whole different ball game but it depends how different the old parts are from the new parts.
Having sent my trade to a shop which was highly praised here on these very pages, with disastrous, expensive results, I'm of two minds. I find "bashing" offensive but recounting a service experience, even when painful for coach owner or shop, is justified and valuable info for others to consider. The way I see it, if the shop did it, they own it. They should be proud of their work, and stand by their work and the discussion of it. If they go above and beyond then this should be made known as well. Sometimes its tough to leave emotion out of it when you know you've been bent over, but a Joe Friday style "just the facts, maam" style recounting is best.
I agree, first and experiences are appropriate and welcome and very valuable. I object only to commentary an opinion from people were not directly involved with the event.
Bashing by uninvolved parties that have never been at the shop in question does not strike me as appropriate or fair.
Can must affectively agree or he wouldn't have felt the need to come to the defense of Bernd.
Yes, hearsay is always suspect, accounting should be first hand. I suppose, by that definition, that the defense of an alleged misdeed should come directly from the other party involved as well.
It would be nice to see businesses actively participate in the social media experience beyond the current level of simple self promotion online. The ones who figure out how to actively integrate the give and take of online discussion into their well organized, competent business will discover opportunities in many directions. Foreforums is relatively unique as there are no allegiances to advertisers or vendors, truly an even playing field.
I don't know whether bashing was intended or not but at this time I think it was "Just one of those things" and intend to continue using Bernd. One snap ring looks an awful lot like another of similar size. There is a possibility that there was mechanic error as well but that too can happen. As long as a shop stands behind their work and usually performs well, one bad job shouldn't be held against them. IMHO
I got wrong parts in Flagstaff when heading East a few months ago. A shop was trying to diagnose a power issue and took 2 days and $700 to replace 2 fuel filters and a kinked fuel line. When I got to South Dakota I found they installed the wrong filters! Oh, and found the power problem was an overly lax overflow valve.
I am MUCH more knowledgeable now, and that will never happen again!
I am glad that service and vendors are being discussed in an open and first hand manner. I shared Chucks experience with three highly recommended vendors on this forum as well. To date, the single greatest expenses on my coach falls into the rework, bad work, bad business practices category. Sometimes making good is nice but falls short. See below when wheel seals fail from being over torqued or flooring comes up from improper gluing, the old antenna is replaced and the holes left open or you end up spending 5,000 on rebuilt steering box's. But all of that is greatly overshadowed by the incredible benefits of forum membership. Having just been in the woodshed, I will just say that's all I have to say about that and l am done having vented for the last time.
After thirty years in the service business, I can say, "shite happens!" I never quibbled," either you get a complete refund or we'll make it right, no charge." Customers that carried-in their bought-elsewhere parts had a different problem, and not mine. ^.^d
Agree with all of the above posts,was an honest mistake and he is making it good,but if the only one that should comment on the
incident is the one directly involved then the only comment on this post should be Kents.
Mike I agree that stuff happens and standing behind your work is critical. Perhaps having worked as counsel in the AF on accidents, I have a different level of tolerance for different types of errors. Some are annoyances, may be expensive and can be fixed but others carry the chance of serious injury or death. I guess that is where the frustration originates.
I've been to some repair shops that come highly recommended to "interview". More often than not it seems they are "experts" only to those that are ignorant. When the answer is "we can work on all engines. We have all the computer/electronics needed. We have all the special tools," then something is fishy.
No independent shop or even huge shop has ALL the tools. Nobody can fix all engines on the spot. I like to play dumb in my interview of the shop----it tells me all I need to know.
Quite a few people I've talked to in private have been burned once or twice by shops.
That was me...ignorant... but not stupid, first time MH owner. So I did what most would do and look for the experience of others. This forum, as I have had time to digest it area by area, is making me an informed purchaser. More and more I am able to do my own work and sort the wheat from the chaffe.
I now see why Steve left the forum, I am waiting for John or Brett to lock this one.
Or move it to campfire where a civil discourse can continue.
One last thought before this thread explodes ( for good reason). This forum has members all over the Country & Canada, they've had problems, we all do. Badmouthing some place gets all of us nowhere, but a "they treated us well and fair" post is why we all love being members! ^.^d
I understand and have been slow to pick up on the culture here. My apologies. My intent was to demonstrate the need for negative and positive feedback without rant or badmouthing.
Sad to say, but most mechanics go not realize snap rings have two sides, one side that holds & the other can be pushed off.
FWIW
Dave,
Reminds me of a car my dad gave me when I graduated from high school. It was a 1957 (?) Ford Taurus wagon (designed for export to Europe I think). He bought if from a small used car dealer in the St. Louis area. Over that summer, I "blew" the engine three times from overheating. The first two times I took it back to the dealer, and he "fixed" it.
The third time, my dad (who had owned a used car lot back in the day) worked on the engine himself. He discovered that the dealer was installing the crank shaft (?) bearings upside down. They only had oil holes on one side. When I got up to speed, the lack of oil caused the engine to overheat and start knocking very loudly.
My father and I both learned things from this experience: Not all mechanics know what they are doing; sometimes free repairs are not worth the price; If you know what you are doing (or can learn how to) DIY is sometimes the best solution. Most importantly, it wasn't *my* fault that the dang engine kept failing.
Once my dad repaired it (the third time), that engine never gave me any trouble again.
Trent
Sorry, out working on the house this afternoon.
Consider this one LOCKED. It is going nowhere very quickly!