Erin and I recently completed the last of our interior aesthetic work on the coach, and in our minds we are only a week or two from being able to move in the coach full time and start prepping our house for the market. But I had a poor design that caused a snag, and I need brainstorming help for this weekend's project.
We have a 14-month old (25 lbs), and we decided that we want his bed/crib in the master bed area to give us the maximum amount of working/living freedom in the front. I work on the computer at home at ungodly hours of the morning, so using a dinette conversion, above-couch setup, or closet conversion is not the most desirable option for us.
My original plan was to take his existing indoor crib, hack and slash it down to size, connect the dots with hinges, and have a crib that folded down from the wall at night to sit on the ground. BUT, as you can see from the "Too Small" picture below, with drawers fully extended there is only 26" of space lengthwise. With a 25" and growing little guy, that space just isn't going to cut it.
This is where I need help. I'm thinking the next best option is the create some sort of fold-out or suspended bed from the ceiling or cabinetry? I attached two pictures to show what is currently there.
My first preference, both aesthetically and functionally, would be to attach a small hinged swingdown platform bed directly to the ceiling between the two lights. However, my experience with this type of tinkering is only of the indoor variety where strong ceiling joists are available. I have no idea about the ceiling construction in 1999 Foretravels. Is the roof framework sufficient to support 50-70 lbs of frame & human in the middle of the ceiling without also attaching to cabinetry / side framework?
If the censuses is 'No,' does anyone have any ideas or examples of turning one of these cabinets into a child's bed, or using it as a support for a bed? Cabinet wood is strong, sturdy, mounted well, and in great condition - could easily support a 50 lb child bed. without direct attachment to other framework. I've tried searching for this sort of thing on this and other forums, but with no luck. Perhaps someone with more searching skill can directly me to a picture, if you've seen something like this before. Maybe someone installed a luxurious pet area that would be similar?
Thanks in advance for your brainpower.
Yank your bedroom TV and one of the drawers below it out and build a "drawer" thats the size you need. Not an optimum height of course but mounted on slides it could be open while sleeping and pushed back in during the day. Its also easy to cheat into the closet for extra length if you need it.
Excellent idea.
And 100 pound ball bearing drawer slides are easy to find. You decide which drawers (what height) and how far into the closet you have to go for a 1+ year size. MUCH better than cutting back on the food.
The bedroom tv on a 34' u270 is in a box on the corner, it really doesn't protrude into the living space much.
I would just make a fold down bed that folds up in front of the window that is the same height as the master bed when it is down. Make it removable.
I wouldn't do anything too permanent, kids grow fast LOL.
My first preference, both aesthetically and functionally, would be to attach a small hinged swingdown platform bed directly to the ceiling between the two lights. However, my experience with this type of tinkering is only of the indoor variety where strong ceiling joists are available. I have no idea about the ceiling construction in 1999 Foretravels. Is the roof framework sufficient to support 50-70 lbs of frame & human in the middle of the ceiling without also attaching to cabinetry / side framework?
My answer would be yes and I can send you a drwg of the roof beam layout on the 2000 295 which I would think is the same. This gives you exact measurements and locations. I am sure that it would be fine as you can easily have a few people on the roof all standing close so 70-100 lbs should not be a problem
JohnH
I assume you saw the thread by the Walker family. Several ideas for increasing the bedroom sleeping space. Some are thoughts you might use.
Building a bunk room? (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=29538)
I agree with John H., the roof structure should be sturdy enough to hang a crib, a lightweight tray with sides of appropriate height, four corners attached with bungie cords to eyes mounted to the roof structure. Easy to put up and store, height above the bed would be adjustable. Easy to make another one bigger as the occupant grows.
You will need to get the specific roof plan for your 34' coach from FT. The bedroom end might be the same as a longer coach but knowing for sure is good. A high quality stud finder (carpenter's tool) will find the aluminum frame members in the roof. I used mine to verify locations when I mounted my sat dish on the roof.
ProSensor 710 Franklin Sensors ProSensor 710 Precision Stud Finder Yellow -... (https://amazon.com/ProSensor-710-Franklin-Sensors-Precision/dp/B0064EICKG/ref=sr_1_6?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1479177813&sr=1-6&keywords=Stud+finder)
These are all fantastic ideas and modifications I wouldn't have thought of on my own. Thank you all very much! Time to check with DW about what will pass the eye test.
John, even though I'll confirm where any necessary beams are, just to see something that would be similar and help me visualize what I might find would be very helpful. No need to go digging endlessly in drawers, but if you have the beam layout drwg handy I would love to take a glance. jamesweconrad@gmail.com
Maybe at the foot or side of the bed a hinged platform that would attach at the edge of your mattress platform and swing down towards the floor when not needed. When in the sleeping position a support leg would prop it up.Later on it could be removed and youd only have a few holes where the hinges were.
James, easy to find as it is in my binder so will scan it and send today
JohnH
Roof Structure, FT 2001 U320, 36 ft. Full drawing and detail. These were sent to me by James T. Detail is not great but useful.
Here are my drwgs which look like a bit different than Rogers I think?
This drwg was updated 03/98 so may be yours too.
40 ft coach too.
JohnH
The bedroom section looks pretty close in the two drawings and that is what is important here, wires run in different ways. Still best to get the drawing for that coach.
Oh, that sounds promising, I like it! Even something along the lines of a crib-sized sliding platform mounted on the current mattress platform at the foot of the bed, which could be made pretty long, going into the bathroom door opening (if it is wide enough for a crib sized mattress.) But it may require you to crawl under it when you need to pass through the doorway! Something on strong drawer sliders (like Brett described above) may prevent the need for a leg support, and you probably wouldn't feel the brackets for the sliders too much on the topside of the mattress (could possibly modify the underside of the mattress if it was too obtrusive.) The beauty of this method would be that the sliding platform is easily stored out of the way during the day, just slide it under the mattress and then store the crib mattress on the side of the bed, or something. And also just a series holes in the current mattress platform to deal with when it's ready to be removed.
I noticed that those drawings used the following description for a hole: 1"1/2
I assume this is the same as: 1 1/2"
Correct?
Trent
Thanks Roger, thanks John!! The continuity between those two drawings is encouraging - and will definitely help with general ideas on what kind of set up is possible. If we end up going that route, and I have any trouble at all locating the supports, I'll try to get a hold of the drawings for my model as well. I'll update the thread with pictures after all is said and done.
Why not put the crib above the drawer level on a platform supported with 2x4's resting on floor. Simple & no permanent roof or wall attachment. Just remove 2x4 when crib is not in place or if the idea does not work out as planned.
To attach to ceiling metal beams (which can be located on a humid morning from the roof) bolts and nuts cannot be used unless you drill through the outer roof fiberglass. Only screws could be used which would only be held by threads.
Here is another idea.
How about 2 pcs of 2 x 4 or? sitting with ends resting inside of opposite wall cabinets and plywood or? on top so you have a form of stretcher. With side walls as req'd this would be above your bed and could be easily removed and stood on its ends when not needed (or stored in basement). Those cabinets are plenty strong enough to hold the weight of child, and it gives you the growing capacity with no added changes needed?
JohnH
Here is my two cents--from a real dumbass.
First, lift that very upset child out of that "well" he is imprisoned in. :)) :)) >:D
Second, measure the floor and have a mattress made to fit the floor footprint. Have handles sewn on the edges. Make a "retainer"rail of some sort to keep your child from wandering until he is older--maybe same height as your bed mattress.
Three, put the child's mattress and bedding in the closet during the day, if the closet is big enough.
Four, when you or the DW need to get up during the night, exit & enter using the foot of your bed.
Five, you do nothing permanent to the interior of your coach.
Six, cost is the mattress, bedding, and a homemade retainer.
Seven, a small fan can be utilized to direct a gentle air flow (warm or cold, as needed) to the child's sleeping area.
Eight, the child is going to grow quickly enough that anything you make he will quickly outgrow.
(Rube Goldberg strikes again!!!) :)) :)) ^.^d ^.^d
A picture is worth a ... here is my idea.
Anything making getting in and out of the bedroom difficult seems like a safety hazard. This seems easy to make, easy to store, just leave it in place, scalable, adjustable height, and secure for the wee one.
Hope it helps.
"Blocking egress from one side of the bed isn't all that uncommon.
Our GV with the driver's side engine access door has a raised side flush with the mattress platform. Don't think this is restricting exiting anymore than what I proposed.
FOT sure made enough of these arrangements--the coaches with the rear radiator--so does it still constitute a safety hazard? Maybe we should consider a class action lawsuit against them?? >:D >:D
What I proposed was a simple, inexpensive solution to a problem.
Consider what a 50# weight bouncing and swinging around in what amounts to a swinging basket will do to screws threaded into thin wall aluminum beams. Won't be too long and there would be three in the "big bed".
Wow, Sue them if you feel the need. I am just trying to suggest detail to an alternative I suggested much earlier. I'm sorry if you don't like mine. Their coach is a 1999. Much different from yours.
That is why I suggested a wooden beam to hold the eyes using a T nut and a generous application of screws, sketch shows sixteen, six or seven lbs each with a 100% safety margin. Use one screw every two inches on a 32" arch = 15 screws for 25 lbs, about 3lbs per screw with a 100% safety margin. Foretravel attaches the cabinets to the roof structure and as some claim you can do pullups on those cabinets.
Our sat dish is mounted to the roof structure (as is Barry and Cindy's) with screws as are the ACs and vents. Lots of wind loads up there and they are secure.
It is their coach, they will do what the choose. I hope we get to see pictures of Jr in what they end up with.
Our kids were gone for "future pastures" when we got this coach. But in retrospect, our "Joey Beds" would have been perfect in case they got antsy in the evening. ^.^d
Whenever I need to put in a screw that carries a significant weight, I install a rivet nut in the metal frame tubing. If I need the screw to be where there is no tubing I use two rivet nuts on tube pieces that are the closest and install a bridge piece (length of wood or metal) between the two so I can put a sturdy fastener in anywhere on the bridge. I've only used them in the basement area where the framing is steel but there are rivet nuts made for a variety of materials. They "blind" install from one side and when done it's just like having a nut fixed on the inside of the tube. You do need to buy a simple installation tool. They work really well with no worries about the thread pulling out. I use the steel twist resistant variety. If it were me, I would use these on the aluminum roof structure. Galvanic corrosion should not be an issue there and the steel threads are much stronger than aluminum threads for the same size. You do need to select the right size range of the tube wall thickness. I don't know what it is for the roof aluminum tubing.
McMaster-Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-rivet-nuts/=152kjbp)
I keep coming back to this thread hoping there are some new ideas or an update...
Now that you have put some more time into the idea have you changed any of the original parameters?
I ask this as it is very likely few people on this board have spent much time in their Foretravel as parents of an infant/toddler/kid. Felling more than a little qualified in this topic I encourage you to take another look at a closet conversion. I can say this because ours worked out very very well in ease of construction, ease of use, and ultimate reversibility.
Scan the pics of our mods again and then come back...
Young Family Customyzation (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=25129.msg198229#msg198229)
OK think about the issues with getting an infant in and out of a hanging basket above your bed... Not easy to do at 25lbs let alone at 50lbs! If you only need one bunk go with a platform on the closet floor. Remove one of the closet doors and the center divider. (Assuming you have a his and hers closet) hang a curtain and call it good. In application the privacy issue in the bathroom has never been a factor for us. When the kids are down before we are and we dont want to wake them (or more accurately keep them from falling asleep) we just use the camp ground facility. At night you have to be quiet of course but no less so than if the bed was suspended from the ceiling in the master bedroom. With the bathroom doors closed (assuming a walk thorough) it is possible to function just fine in the front of the coach and believe it or not have adult time in the bedroom. This last point was not the most important when setting ours up but its value as an added benefit cant be overstated. (Careful here or you could be needing to add that second bunk...)
8)
I guess that my concern was that a 25# child will slowly morph into a 50# child, and then a 75# child, along with the accompanying increase in length/height/activity/agility. There is no stopping them, and the amount of time & labor to setup & teardown should go into consideration of any design.
These weight and height changes can and should have an effect on the design of any accommodation.
Also, what appeals to the original modifier may not appeal to a subsequent potential owner. Once any mod is made it can end up being a permanent unattractive eyesore.
Chris that looks fantastic! Really nicely done. And it gives me a much better picture of how much space a little one takes up. We actually discussed a modification just like this at length, and although we think that your kind of set up is much less obtrusive, more aesthetically pleasing, and more convenient - we had some functionality reservations given our specific scenario, which were:
1) Beginning this weekend (weather permitting the move) we'll be full-timing, so the tall closet areas are a little more valuable than they would be otherwise.
2) The passenger seat will also my office, and I work remotely at very very early hours of the morning. Sneaking in to the use the bathroom a few times before sun-up could be a recipe for disaster (Read: an early wake-up and a grumpy DW). It also could be fine - but tough to know for sure until it is 'too late,' so to speak.
3) Having an additional closed door to help muffle the sounds of any early morning work calls would be valuable. The same goes for any after bedtime TV watching or other activity.
Erin and I were pacing around the RV on Wednesday discussing and visualizing all of your ideas. In particular we were taking seriously the warnings of a fast growing child, and the soft warnings against huge, more permanent type modifications - which unfortunately was an argument against my grand swinging roof bed preference... While we did so, Erin actually came up with what I'm hoping will be a far more simple, less permanent, and less obstructive solution. One that takes advantage of the several extra inches that bed platform hangs over the frame/engine housing for daytime storage, instead of blocking a window or requiring a ceiling install. Saw-to-wood on Saturday morning, so if all goes well I'll post a picture or two and we can collectively decide whether or not it was a good choice. If it wasn't - I can just deflect "credit" to Erin. ;D
James, you will quickly discover that limited access to the sides of the queen bed will greatly hinder making the bed without crawling all over it to do the head of the bed.
We have that problem to some extent with having our radiator in the back and an access "tunnel" in from the driver's side.
Our solution? We sometimes just throw the bedding in their proper direction and then cover everything with a sleeping bag opened up to full width. Works great when in a hurry.
If your idea doesn't pan out maybe try looking at this the opposite way and look at how to make the passenger seat area an enclosable and then you have the whole rest of the motor home to put a bed in.
Took almost an embarrassing two whole days, but the crib frame is up, and the mattress is cut to size (read: Gorilla tape). We ended up just making two fold out "crib edges" that will tuck underneath the bed platform during the day - and fold out (and then fold up) again at night. Both the hinge and the latch sides bear load, and a few bolts slide into the "fold up" to keep it upright. The way the edges fold in, we can still open the drawers to full extension during the day. I'm pretty please with how sturdy it is - but give the boy another 8 months and 10 pounds and we'll see if we need to make any structural modifications to the setup.
All credit does to DW for the idea, but I hope she doesn't need anything in the vanity after bedtime...
Moms usually know best.
WOW, exactly the concept I described!! But done much better than my vision.
Like how simple and non intrusive the setup is.
Great design and implementation!
I would definitely turn power off to that electrical outlet....for peace of mind.
Your little guy looks like he is already contemplating methods of escape. But happy he has his own "Man Cave".
What about having a way to darken his "Man Cave" during nap time?
Looks like a good fit. We initially tried to use a playpen for our munchkin and it didn't last because the surface was too low down and too hard on the back when she was unsettled. That forced us to go to a crib.