I have only had this coach for a week and it looks like some cold weather coming to southern PA (down around 25) and I would normally be winterizing now as we do not head south until week after Christmas. I am lucky enough to have a place (outside) where I can keep the coach plugged in to 30 amp service all the time. After reading this site for many years I think that as long as I'm plugged in and I keep the zones at around 55 with the AquaHot running on electric (do I need the diesel on) and the thermostat in the bathroom turned way up that the interior and all the bays will stay warm and I will not have to winterize.
This goes against all my years of RVing experience and am checking here if I am understanding this correctly. This could be a costly error if I am wrong. I Have always used the air pump method of winterizing my motor homes and am prepared to do this but it sure would be nice to not have to.
Any and all advice will be appreciated.
The basement bay has its own thermostat located near the water manifold or pump. It is in that bay on my 2001 U320. This thermostat controls the pump to circulate hot coolant and make the fans on the two heat exchangers in the basement wet bay operate. The bathroom thermostat controls the same pump and coolant loop but only turns on the heat exchanger fans in the bathroom. So turning up the bathroom fan will not actively heat the baement. Turn on the basement thermostat to do that.
Your aquahot will not heat the coach to 55° if it is 25° outside on only electric. Some later AH models have a much bigger electric heater but not on mine and likely not on yours. The diesel fired side of the boiler will be needed. It may be able to maintain 40°, outside - wind ... you will have to figure out what your coach will actually do at that spot.
Many folks put several 100 or 200 watt electric heaters in the basement areas. For a short cold snap that my be OK.
There are many threads on winteriing your coach. It will take a couple hours the first time and with some practice about an hour. We are in MN and leave for the bulk of the winter. I would never consider not winterizing. Even the smallest freeze related water line failure is going to be a major headache and take much more time and money to fix than winterizing.
You can get a fitting that connects to your fill hose that lets you connect a compressed air line. Remove the fresh water filter and put in the diverter. Put a new filter in when you de-winterize. Drain the frsh tank, use 30-40 psi air to blow the water out of all of the water lines until only air comes out of every faucet. Open each of the water line drain valves one at a time until only air comes out. Run the pump to get as much water out of that and the acumulator tank as possible. Then do it all over again. Empty the waste tanks.
Washing machines, ice makers and refrigerators need careful attention.
Now you will have very little, if any water left anywhere. You may be OK for short cold snaps. Many folks go this far and have done OK. It take 5-6 gallons of RV antifreeze to fill all of the lines for a complete job.
So a couple hours of time, $15 worth of pink juice and a couple hours at the de-winterize stage. Peace of mind. We frequently don't de-winterize for a couple days after we leave MN until we get somewhere warm enough.
OK, I don't know about the Aqua-hot, but I do have a few suggestions.
1. Open all cupboard doors where liquids might be present that might freeze. This would include where water lines go thru cupboards.
2. Set up an electric fan to circulate the stratified air. Circulating the hot air from up by the ceiling will help reduce fuel consumption.
3. Play safe. Get a gallon or so of RV antifreeze. Pour some in each drain and get some in the black and grey holding tanks...just enough to reach the blade valves.
4. Make sure your dump compartment is sealed airtight to the outside air.
5. On our coach I put a thermostatically controlled electric fan in the dump compartment as added insurance.
6. Look underneath to verify your holding tanks are not exposed, but totally covered.
7. I would do an almost daily check to verify the heat is working and keeping temps above freezing. Obviously if temps outside stay "way above" freezing, daily checks wouldn't be mandatory.
With a U320 you will have an AquaHot (and possibly a washer/dryer). You CANNOT adequately winterize these 2 items simply by blowing the lines out.
If you can't keep the AquaHot running (on diesel as Roger mentions) to keep the interior and basement heated, you will need to pump potable antifreeze (the pink stuff) through the system, including the AquaHot lines and washing machine (and icemaker in the fridge).
The 2003 U320 owner's manual has a page that describes winterization (and specifically warns against just draining the fresh water system/blowing the lines out if you have an W/D). From our experience, a 40' with a W/D will pretty much take 6 entire gallons of antifreeze
Hi. I never winterized my 2003, U320. It was parked outside in upper East Tennessee for many winters. It was plugged to shore power and the electric aqua hot was on with thermostats in living room, bathroom and basement set to 45 degrees. I did put a 40'watt light bulb up near the icemaker solenoid in the outside access area to the fridge, where I also covered the louvre on the access panel. In addition I would turn on the diesel burner if temps were going predicted below 20 degrees. I also plugged the trap door around the power cord with a towel. I also covered the vent openings and cut a piece of pink stuff to plug the skylight opening. These were used while traveling in the winter, anyway.
Worked for me, and I was ready to go when the urge hit.
I join the chorus of folks that think the electric element of the Aqua Hot heater is not sufficient to heat the whole coach in frigid conditions. The electric element will protect the AH heater's fresh water coil but the rest of the coach is vulnerable.
So if not winterized, electric and diesel ON, cabinets opened, interior thermostats set to around 55. Check basement thermostat is set to 45 or 50 degrees (I see bunch turned to zero). Be prepared to adjust if you loose grid power for more than a short period. Diesel fuel tank must be kept at 1/4 or more, 1/3 or more is better.
Actually, when storing the coach, diesel tank should be FULL to minimize condensation (as well as supply Aqua Hot).
I don't have a problem where I live, but my understanding is that the electric thermostat setting is higher than the diesel one. If you leave both on the diesel will only come on when the electric can't keep up. One of the most expensive repairs would be the coils splitting around the aqua hot. My opinion for what it is worth is leave both turned on until you are not going to use the coach for several months, then winterize.
If it makes you nervous at all to not do it then do a complete winterization. The folks I know that just blow the lines out do not have Aqua Hots. I always buy a case of six gallons of RV antifreeze, a bit cheaper that way and use it up. Any leftover (usually not much) goes in the drains and then into the waste tanks which is OK.
RV antifreeze is a whole lot cheaper than a RV dealer hourly repair rate for leak damage.
Do the math.
OP Here
Thanks for all the suggestions. But because I am nervous about leaving it on I've decided to go ahead and do a full winterization. Have already gone to get the six gallons of pink stuff. Will start doing it tomorrow as I just spent the day putting most of our stuff back into the motorhome.
Roger you talked about an extra switch to shut off the Aqua Hot. I have every switch and thermostat shut off that I can find (and I have searched extensively through every cabinet and bay) and I can still here what sounds like a pump running in the Aqua Hot. Also the aluminum cover feels warm ..... not hot but warm. Can you guide me to where another switch might be.
If it would help to talk to me you can call 717-two53-18zero7
Emile Bergeron
Our coach has the 2 zone thermostat to shut off behind the drivers seat, a switch for the bathroom thermostat on the bottom of the thermostat and a thermostat in our wet bay on the water pump side. 4 zones which I think is the max.
Matthew
Emile,
With the stainless cover off of the burner area of the heater, you can see the fuse block. The second fuse from the left, the "B" fuse in service manual, powers the basement thermostat. Remove the "B" fuse. With the interior thermostats, the Diesel Burner, Electric Element, Engine Preheat switches turned OFF, the heater is completely OFF.
Now, the only thing that could put heat into the AH coolant is to run the Cummins engine. But no pumps or fans would run.
Rudy
Thank you very much for that information. Right now it has turned cold and I have put everything back on in order to keep the coach warm for the night. Tomorrow I will try shutting everything down again and try your information. Have heard good things about your services and wish I was closer to you than 1300 miles so you could give this a once over. Well maybe in January.
Emile
I added a switch to disable the basement thermostat. I just wasn't sure if it wactually had an off position. I did not want that pump and fans running all winter trying to heat the basement when there was no heat in the system. Rudy's way works too. Here is a basic FT winterizing guide in pdf format.
I'm new at this as well. We want to use our coach during the winter and have decided to forego winterizing our 2002 U320. It does get cold in Alabama but doesn' stay cold for long. I have turned on the electric and diesel heat (furnace) and the heat pump and set thermostat on 47. Except for bay thermostat which is on 50. Today I purchased a 1500 watt small room heater at Home Depot. I have set that at about 50 and placed it in the bay cabinet space next to water manifold.
Questions.
Is the space heater overkill? If not, where is the best (safety/benefit) location in the bay areas to place the heater?
Mr Cupp mentioned protecting the refrigerator and we have a residential model. What exactly needs to be done here? Cover the outside and with what? Remove the cover a put a towel(??) between the cover and back of refrigerator?
Thanks to all you helpful people who manage and participate in this forum. It has been a great FT education curriculum to newbies like me.
We keep our coach heated all winter in Canada. Because the aqua hot lines run through all the bays, it keeps them plenty warm just from fluid moving up to the front of the coach. By keeping the diesel and electric on you have redundant systems. We also leave our auto gen switch on as well. Just incase we have a power failure. Just make sure your fluid pumps are working and you will be fine. We have used our coach in -30 and always been very comfortable with out any other heaters. I prefer it over winterizing as I hate the "pink stuff" in our lines. As an extra precaution I blow out our water lines with air. Way easier than flushing everything. We added a connection right after our water pump and I have a pressure regulator to manage the air pressure. When we get home from a trip, I just connect to the aux air connection and blow out the lines.
Matthew
Thanks. Anything special in the way of precautions for the refrigerator?
We traveled from the NW to Houston just to have Rudy do the service..As not knowing when if ever that the unit had been serviced .... Was well worth the effort and gained some peace of mind,
red
MBrooks, if the water lines to your residential fridge are all inside the coach or the heated basement area then you need no extra precautions. With the absorption fridge the water lines to the ice maker and it's solenoid are exposed to outside ambient temp. On the other hand, if you still have them exposed in that opening, then you will need some heat there. I chose a low watt light bulb. I did have the fridge turned off so there was heat from it's burner.
I believe my ice maker line is vulnerable. Confused by last sentence from HC. Absorption fridge? Can I leave my residential refrigerator turned on or should I turn it off? But that still leaves ice maker lines exposed. Do the outside cover vents have to be open if refrigerator is operating? Or can I safely close them off in periods of freezing temperatures? And how best to do that?
I left my 1500 watt heater set on low (~50)last night with it placed in what I think is called the water bay. Some of that heat should rise to back of fridge area and ice maker waterline. Vents were not closed. Will continue same procedure tonight until I am comfortable nothing will freeze. Projected upper 20's so ice maker line remains a concern. Suggestions appreciated.
Moderator, this may shift the focus of the thread but I hope not because the fridge sub-topic is part of my larger/broader issues related to cold weather operations.
We install Roxal behind the fridge vent access. A thin piece works great. Water proof, rodent proof. Keep the fridge on and it will generate it's own heat. We have a shut off under the sink for our ice maker. We winterized it with air and leave it off for the season.
Matthew
Thanks Matthew. I'll get some Roxal or something similar to place inside exterior access door. I'm not sure about location of cut off valve for ice maker but will check out that as well. Most helpful.
If you are the same as me, my ice maker line was off my under sink water filter. A 1/4 in compression shut off valve under the sink does the trick and we can still use the water filter year round.
Matthew
Thanks to Matthew, Horace and the folks at Old Town Motorcoach, I have the refrigerator issue clarified. Simple solution is to just place insulation inside the access panel. Joey at OTM said an insulation panel would not block air flow to our new residential refrigerator and would protect the ice maker waterline. Per OTM suggestion, I located the ice maker waterline cut off valve under the sink. Surprise, I also discovered another switch for water fill.
Still not sure where the best location for placing small supplemental heater in the lower bay areas. It remains in the "water bay" for now. Suggestions on this issue are needed.
I also took the idea for an insert to block the small utility panel door and built one for the FT. Addresses two issues: critters and cold. The previous post and picture on the forum was helpful with that little project. Some of the other major creative things done by FT forum members are beyond my skill level but I learn much be reading those threads.
Well following every ones advice I decided to go ahead and winterize properly. First I opened all drains, then blew out all the lines as I used to on my SOB. Everything seemed fine at this point but after some consideration I decided to do the pink stuff just to be safe - well this coach was a big investment so why cheap out for 20 bucks worth of pink stuff. By the time the pink stuff started to flow thru each faucet and drain it was AMAZING how much actual water came out of these lines. Thank you - Thank you to all who insisted the pink stuff was the only way to go. Used all 6 gallons and felt so much better that my lines are safe.
Also in reading and re-reading the instructions some of you included, I found a line that said I could still run the heating part of the Aqua Hot after filling the water lines with the pink stuff. So the U320 is sitting full of pink stuff and the heater is running keeping it warm and happy while waiting for Dec 29 when we can head south for our three months of roaming around.
This forum is such a great tool for us new owners.