I went to take a look at a 1990 Grand Villa yesterday. The guy is pretty desperate to sell and could be acquired at a steal.
As I pull up to the house I see the RV covered in tarps not a good sign. Of course upon my inspection I am looking evidence of moisture. The first thing I notice is the liner is sagging especially on the perimeter of the coach. I didnt see or feel any evidence of moisture or rot on the walls, floor or ceiling until I get to the closet.
The closet itself had no evidence of moisture or rotted wood on floor or wall. The liner had separated there as well and when I moved the liner water came out of it. :o
I went up the the roof and on that side and there was a huge crack on that side and and another crack on the other side. He said the tarp was just replaced because the other one was ripped. But he had two tarps meeting at the crack and Im sure water was able to get between the two.
Ive looked at two other RVs and It was pretty easy to to see and feel the evidence of water damage. I just could under stand why I didn't see it on the inside of this one.
When I looked underneath the tarp of the windshield of the passenger side was cracked.
He said the rv hadn't been started in 36 months.
The windshield replacement cost 2 to 3 grand, new roof 5-10k, tires 2k I was so disappointed I didnt even bother making an attempt to start it.
Did I give up too quickly on this one?
"Did I give up too quickly on this one? "
NO, you did not give up too quickly, unless you are very handy and need a long term project.
Some (neglected coaches) are not a good buy at $0. It is both initial cost PLUS getting it road ready that counts, not just initial cost.
By the landscape, looks like this one is somewhere in the desert SW. Was this an ORED? Caterpillar 3208 or DD 8.2?
No, you did exactly the right thing.
Money Pit.
I do not think I would take that one if it was a "Gift" :)) :)) Does not sound restorable....
Run, Mo! Run!
Tell the owner that if HE gives you $1,000 to haul it away you might reconsider.... Then...parts sale!! >:D >:D
OK, John H's wife or Brett's wife may recommend one of them looking at it. Would keep either of us out of trouble for a LONG, LONG time. A hobby that could turn into a full time money pit. No more time for "honey dooes" .
But, were is it-- will consider sending John H an air line ticket to go see it.
Only issue would be what to do with it when finished???
Big dollars to fix this one.
FWIW a sagging headliner in those models with vinyl headliners is no big deal, its pretty common, the foam dries out and the vinyl sags. Several posts here on fix's.
Gary B
Agree with Gary. Sagging vinyl headliner MAY be a "not big deal". But (OK, large BUT), being vinyl, it can hide some pretty substantial water leaks that could have totally weakened the roof structure. Ozite carpet ceiling cover, on the other hand does a pretty good job of being a "telltale" for water leaks as it stains pretty easily.
Where we come from, those blue tarps are called "The Official Washington State Flag." It's too bad some of those rare coaches are falling apart. There is a GV down here that has not moved for years! Even free, that coach has "CB City" written all over it. A big worry, besides the roof crack, etc., would be it's one of those coaches that had the radiator in the stern, rather than the side, as ours has.
Well that crack would not be a big deal if you have done a bit of work with F Glass and of course first thing would be to remove fridge cover and try to figure out what caused it. As Gary said that lining does fall after many years and cutting it down along cabinets then pulling back to spray new glue on place back carefully and a trim strip along cabinets to hide cut(been there done that). If there was any other deciding factor let us know, but those 2 are not even $1000 worth of time I would guess (unless of course you go to NAC etc where it would now be $10000)
JohnH
Rear radiators are no concern actually the rear radiator is way simpler than the side radiator no hydraulic fan motors to worry about no HWH leveling system to give you trouble simple the whole coach is simple
I agree with John as far as the cracks go.
If you're handy with some fiberglass that could be an easy fix if it doesn't have to terrib]le water damage inside.I guess it all depends on how you look at it are you looking for the taj ma Hilton? Or a cheap camper
What model is it? What engine?what do the bulkheads look like?
It might be a good buy for the right person.
.How handy and resourceful are you.
Looks like it is a 225 ORED so chassis would be the Oshkosh with no bulkhead worries. I am just going by the storage doors and locks so could be wrong on that ORED
JohnH
1991 was the first year of the U225. It was a unihome construction (i.e. Foretravel-built "chassis"), so nothing to do with Oskhosh. Yes, it would have bulkheads. Oshkosh chassis had no bulkheads, as they were frame rail chassis.
Easy to tell, as the U225 had the TORSILASTIC SUSPENSION, shared ONLY with the U240-- no other Foretravel model, Cummins B 5.9 liter with 230 HP and Allison 4 speed.
Again, where is it-- someone here may have more information to share!
yes I know the ORED as we had an 93 with Oshkosh and springs. The basement door handles was what I was looking at and they are in same position as ours are/where.
JohnH
I found it easier to remove the vinyl strip going down the center, pulling all the staples, then pulling each side toward the center and then restapling each side after trimming the excess. Adding additional vinyl buttons--one row to each side of center--will hold the vinyl up so no one would ever notice it is free hanging and not glued up to the roof.
I have to agree with Stump. As a side radiator model owner, all the belts, pump, motors, hoses, controls can be a nightmare if even one part fails on the road. With the rear radiator, you have to make sure the fan is not the model that flies apart but saves a lot of problems.
At a very cheap price, a good DIYer with time could make this a nice rig. The 5.9 Cummins would be the engine of choice. Paying a shop would bring the finished product to more that twice what a nice later coach would cost. The crack looks pretty easy to repair. The cover condition by the crack indicates outside storage in the hot sun. Southwest? If close to the border, the RV park we go to is one hour drive in Puerto Penasco and does a lot of repair, upholstery, paint, carpet, etc on site and for pennies on the dollar. At over 20 pesos for the dollar, our greenback is king now in Mexico.
Pierce
This was caused from sitting outside in the hot summer sun and being 24 years outside. No wood damage, was repaired with good results. Cracking is repairable. No other delam was detected.
George,
You were EXTREMELY lucky that those cracks did not allow water migration into the roof structure. That is what runs into the really big bucks/deems an older coach not economically repairable. Roof covering is very different than compromised roof STRUCTURE.
Interesting mix of comments.
My biz gets slow in the winter time and I normally take on a resto project to keep busy. Last year it was a 28 years old boat, the year before that and 83 Shadow. But Im definitely not interesting in going broke trying to bring this one back
No doubt money could be made by just by parting out the RV but I have no interest or desire in doing that. I get more satisfaction out of bringing something back to life and keeping it out of the scrap yard.
I've never even driven an RV much less worked on one. I just though it would be cool to take the kids and grand kids out on the road before I croak :D
The only reason I'm still considering this purchase is because I didn't see or feel and water damage inside the coach. Maybe Ill go take another look and actually take a look at the entire roof and see if she starts up. Ill keep reading the forum on delamination and bulk head inspection and get more educated
The fridge vent doesn't even look like its sitting flush on the roof. Is that normal?
(http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=29818.0;attach=47439;image)
Kind of wonder what all that water seeping in does to the aluminum roof supports? >:D >:D Or the steel wall beams?
If it's located in one of the southwestern states, the drought may have kept the water away with the sun doing the majority of damage. This might account for lack of interior stains/damage in the inspection.
Pierce
Welcome back, Pierce! Long time no post.
Mo, I'd agree with those who said to run away unless you are really wanting a major project. As you figured, fixing the obvious things only takes money and a bit of time. The problem is that once you start working on something, "as long as I'm doing this I may as well do that" begins. Then "that" turns into "this other thing" which grows to "this thing over here" etc.
David, I must agree with you.
When we first got our coach I didn't think there was anything wrong or needing to be done. Then, after the first year I tallied up what I had done or changed. Then, after four more years of ownership I listed everything I could remember that we had done to our coach. I came up with a whole bunch of things we changed that either needed replacing or what we wanted our coach to be for us.
Some things very small, but went on the list.
Those cracks were as as the ones I saw George.
The base (bottom) of that fridge vent is not supposed to sit on roof but about 1" to 1 1/2" above it so any heat can vent out etc. It looks like it has collapsed down with sun and that is a very common thing with those vent covers as they age out in the sun and fall apart. If you go back take some HD pics of all over so we can look for problem areas.
JohnH
If thats the estate sale one in Prescott the Craigslist ad has been removed. Just from the ad I thought it looked like front engine gasser, the steering column looked like a Ford and the front wheels seemed too far forward for a pusher. Sad to see any Foretravel allowed to decay that much.
In the 70's, a bunch of us were probably turning up our collective noses on some pretty collectable cars due to rust, dings, cracks. (My $800 '66 912 Porsche comes to mind from 1975.) These things have huge character and build quality. I know that basket cases are potential marriage breakers but I would like to rephrase my earlier post:
Look, Mo, Get Ready to Run.
I'm with Pierce. You could turn it around.
Too late its gone. Im disappointed and relieved at the same time
Hopefully, the buyer will join the forum and give us all something to do during the cold winter nights! ^.^d
So Mike, 76 degrees at 9:30 in the morning ? And you still have " cold winter nights " :) :)
Ha! I was mostly referring to "The Po' Folk" stuck up north. Oddly, though, down here, a temp drop of twenty degrees overnight is common, hence the furnaces when we get rolling around 5.00 am. We've been down here long enough so we've thinned-out our thick northern blood, so it's chilly for us "Desert Rats"! ^.^d
Mike--good "antifreeze" for thin blood is a Coronet Brandy Old Fashioned--sweet. ^.^d ^.^d
Doesn't make the cold seem warmer, just makes us nutty enough to stay here in Wisconsin.
When the Snowbirds leave for the winter Wisconsin's IQ average drops ten points and goes back up in the spring when the snowbirds return.
You forgot , I'm Irish. What keep me "thick" is (my Grandmother's recipe): In the morning, in the same cup: Good coffee, dab of sugar, dab of milk, and a dab (or more) of Jamesons Whiskey. I think of Gram every time it gets chilly. ^.^d
Ah, yess, Jerry, I KNOW where you live! Holiday best, stay warm!