We had planned to be on the road at this time, but the coach has other ideas. Saturday morning it was in the 70's here, but by the time we got up yesterday morning it was only 9 degrees. At least the wind had died down. I turned on the block heater so that we could get going today. Put everything away and started the Detroit. It fired right up, ran for a bit, and shut down. Did that several times, same result. I tried starting the engine from the rear and pumping the fuel primer with the same result.
All filters were changed at Foretravel in March. Last fuel was put in in Lubbock, TX on 3 November. Since then we have driven 220 miles, first to Hobbs, NM for four weeks, then here to the SKP park between Carlsbad and Artesia two weeks ago. Everything ran fine then. Yesterday after church I dumped in a bottle of that anti-gel stuff, but of course with no engines running it hasn't had much chance to mix.
Suggestions? Engine is a Detroit 6V92TA.
Might pull the filter and check it, just to make sure you have good fuel.and no air
Does it run every time you start it? How long does it run?
Runs for about 30 seconds. Stop Engine light comes on almost immediately. Generator starts and runs just fine.
David,
Your DDEC computer is shutting the engine down. Check codes under dash top. Low coolant in the black right hand radiator tank (with the radiator cap) will cause exactly the same problem. Check the wire for connection at the sensor facing out at the bottom of the black tank. I always make sure the catch tank is up between the marks on the left side of the compartment.
So, if that is not the problem, read the code under the dash after you turn the ignition switch to the run position and turn the "engine" switch to the on position. A light bulb will flash the fault codes. Post the codes.
If you are driving it at the time, the DDEC will go to half power for thirty seconds and then shut down.
Pierce
Our DDEC II makes it almost impossible to damage the engine unless you push the override switch on the dash. It will shut the engine down for lots of reasons. Low coolant, overheating above about 220 degrees, low oil pressure, etc, etc.
Pierce
Fault codes (IF I got them right) are: 12, 22, 35, 41, 43, 44, 47, 75, 85.
David,
Here are the fault codes: THE DIAGNOSTIC PROCEDURE l WHERE TO START (http://trucktractor6x4.tpub.com/TM-9-2320-363-20-1/css/TM-9-2320-363-20-1_315.htm)
Go to the top of the page on the right side. The page you are on will be in white. The next page (297) will give the rest of the codes. You can't even run the engine over 2500 rpm for more than two seconds without getting a fault code.
This is a good reason for investing a few $$ in a Pro-Link 9000. It reads out all the fault codes and can reset the ECU.
Pierce
Did you check the coolant level in the tank? Coolant should be visible in the little window. Is the coolant between marks on the reservoir/catch tank on the left side of the engine compartment?
Pierce
David,
Fault code 43 that you list is low coolant level. Here is an easier to read list of the codes and what they mean: http://www.dmbruss.com/images/Schematics/DDEC/0_Table_of_Contents.pdf
P
Several of the codes I'm getting indicate low voltage. I just checked the batteries and they are at 12.73 volts. This new alternator doesn't kick in until the engine is over about 1500 rpm for a minute or so.
I'm going to run into Artesia and get some antifreeze, since the white tank on the left side of the engine compartment (overflow tank) is pretty dry. I'll see if they have one of those Pro-Link 9000 devices.
What the heck is a "prolink 9000 and is it only applicable to a 6v-92TA and not a 8.3 cummins ?
Heavy Duty Scan tools for engine/allison (not OBDII) (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=21846.msg163933#msg163933)
Low coolant level is a pretty typical problem for RVs. You turn the engine off at normal operation temp. The coolant cools, contracts taking up less space and dropping the level. When you go to start it, the level is below the sensor and the DDEC shuts it down after 30 seconds. Any kind of drip in storage further lowers the level. After purchasing the coolant, add some to the black pressure tank too.
Tough to sometimes read the codes as the numbers may be stored from a previous event or may be the current codes. This is where a reader comes in handy as it can tell when the fault code was stored, for how long, etc. Then you can remove the old codes as well as testing the injectors, fast idle, etc, etc, etc.
Don't count on being able to pick up a Pro-Link 9000 anywhere. They are no long used with PCs and theirincluded software doing the job today. The problem is that the new stuff is VERY expensive. Even the 9000 on ebay can be expensive. Several members have been able to purchase the reader for under $100 and the DDEC I-II or II-III cartridge that fits in the back for another $100. Jerry M. owns a print shop and for a nominal fee, will send you a copy of the hard to get manual. He has done so much without charging but is not retired and it's only right to help him out here. The manuals on ebay are at least $40.
If there is enough interest, I will make a YouTube video on how to install (simple plugin) and operate the reader. A video is worth 10,000 words.
Pierce
Bob and Sue,
DDEC means Detroit Diesel Electronic Controls. The 92 series 2-cycle was the first heavy duty diesel to have electronic controls with the 60 series Detroit the first engine made with only electronic controls. Other readers are made for Cummins and CATs with electronic controls. Cartridges also fit the Pro-Link for the Allison and ABS brakes. See ebay for later Pro-Link, MPSI, Kent-Moore, etc. All the same reader but just different names. Later versions are available now for all diesels. Cartridges to fit the 9000 are super cheap for Ford, GM and Chrysler cars but expensive for HD diesels. See this ebay page for lots of examples: pro-link 9000 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=pro-link+9000&_sacat=0) Use the other search words like MPSI, Kent-Moore, Detroit Diesel for exactly the same product. Include "diesel" and "reader" in the search.
Detroit 2-cycles are bullet proof engines and while they won't pass smog anymore and because of all the internal parts and the hours required for assembly, they are only made for the military for "to important to fail" applications in generators, boats, pumps, etc. This is why Mercedes (MTU) bought Detroit Diesel out of all the other companies and still produces them along with the new 4 cycle engines, the DD13, DD15 and DD16. The new engine series have a 1.5 million mile B50 factor. After using them since 1967, this is why they are my favorite engine.
A high percentage of railroad locomotives use an almost exact copy of the 92 series 2-cycle today with the EMD 710 engine having 710 cubic inches per cylinder (16 of them) in a V configuration for 4200 hp.
Pierce
Got mine from Jerry M.
Pierce Showed me how & when & why last month, while passing thru
Great for troubleshooting
HAVE WE GOT IT STARTED YET !
I need to breathe !!!!!!!
( also the cause of failure to start )
David,
As Pierce noted, Code 43 Low Coolant level will definitely cause the DDEC to shut the engine down within 30 seconds of trying to start. I had the similar problem when I lost a couple of gallons working on the big air compressor and had to take the coolant lines loose on the head to do the maintenance. After I put the coolant lines back on I forgot to top off the antifreeze before starting and the DDEC shut down the engine and gave a code 43. A big advantage of the Pro-Link is that it will tell you if the codes are active or inactive. After I topped of the coolant the engine started and ran with no shutdown and active code code 43 was moved to the inactive code list. The code flasher under the dash will show all the codes as active or inactive until the problem is resolved or removed with the Pro-Link. It's a great tool if you can find one.
Pierce,
Video please!
Jerry
Well, had a nice trip up to Artesia and didn't spend a penny. They didn't have the right kind of antifreeze (low silicate, green) and neither did anyone else close by. Roswell has ONE gallon (unless it sold), so a case (six gallons) will be there by 7:30 tomorrow morning. I'll drive up and get some of that case. I'm thinking that I'll take at least three gallons just so I have some left.
I then asked about that Pro-Link 9000. I was talking to the store manager, and she didn't recognize it. When I mentioned that the only thing that came up on a quick search was a Pro-Link machine for $18,900 (!) she said that what they use is a Bosch device ($300) that has adapters for all sorts of vehicles. She also mentioned that it may be available online for somewhat less. I should have written down the model.
We're going to stay here another night, and see what happens tomorrow.
This is what the store has:
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/BOST/OBD1300/N0664.oap?ck=Search_code+readers%21s%21scanners_-1_4329&keyword=code+readers%21s%21scanners
Won't work
if the low coolant switch is normally a closed switch when it senses coolant you can unplug it and jump the terminal and see if coach starts if it is a normally open switch and it closes on local and you should be able to unplug it and Coach should start and run
sure sounds like you have low coolant, have seen many times where the exact thing you describe happens. and sounds like you saw that your coolant is low.
Is the coolant low in the black tank on the upper right side of the engine compartment ?
One other thing to check is the wiring to the oil pressure sensor for the DDEC. It is on the passenger side of the engine block below the exhaust manifold and just behind the air conditioner compressor on the engine block. You have to crawl underneath the coach to see it and even the it is a little hard to see because of the hoses etc. If one of the wires has come loose it will also cause shut down. There will be two sensors in that location, one larger one that looks like a little can and one smaller one that comes off the end of the stem. The smaller one may be the culprit. If you take the wires off be sure you mark the wiring so you get the wires reconnected properly. The part number is on the edge of the brass collar but you probably will not need to replace it. If you do you will need the exact part number for the replacement. There are two DDEC sending units that look the same. One is an open switch, the other is a closed switch but I don't remember which is the correct one.
Let us know if you get it fixed or need more help.
Did you get the Detroit running. And are you on your way to warmer climes?
Roland
Yes, we're in a warmer place. O'Reilly's was as good as they said. The case of antifreeze was waiting for me when I arrived shortly after 7:30 this morning. I took three of the six gallons (~$65) and headed back to The Ranch. Got out my custom-made coolant filler (aka 2' of hose and a funnel) and started pouring. I poured a full gallon into the black tank, then filled the container with water and poured it in. If I had been smart (I'm not) I would have checked how full that black tank was. Instead I got the second gallon and started pouring. You guessed it - very little went into the tank and about the same amount splashed out. I got Jo Ann to help for the second part, as it takes three hands to pour into the white tank. I put enough antifreeze into the tank to bring it up to about halfway from empty to full cold, then added water to get it up to that mark. While I was running into Artesia and back she got the coach all ready for the road. As soon as everything outside was buttoned up I started the Detroit, air built up, no warning lights, no shut-down, and off we went.
We had a nice trip to Fort Stockton, TX where it is 52 degrees at 7:30. It was around 70 when we arrived earlier this afternoon. While dumping and filling I took a look at the white tank and it showed Full Hot. I'll see what it looks like in the morning.
Thanks to all who offered their advice and help. Roland, good to meet you finally. We really enjoyed our two weeks at The Ranch.
David,
Now that you are in FT. Stockton safe, don't miss Acosta's Tortilla Factory for burritos and home made tortillas.
Pamela
As the engine cools it will suck the coolant into the black tank. Don't be suprised if the first trip or two it burps some air out of the system and you need to add some more.