We've not boondocked in the short time we've had the coach, but want to go to Q. The Airstream had rocker switches that indicated battery condition, and when the gen-set needed to be fired. The FT does not, that I can find, except the dash monitor, which I'm not sure of. Looks like the dash shows the coach batteries only. So at what voltage would be the time to fire the gen-set? I know we have the booster, so maybe a starter battery readout is moot. I like our "True Charge 40" when we're on shore power, but any insight on not starting the gen-set until it's time would be appreciated (by our neighbors, as well). Thanks, Happy New Year, All! ^.^d
If you have a voltmeter for the coach batteries you are good to go. I generally recharge at 12 volts which is supposed to be 50% but let it drop lower temporally for coffee maker as long as it comes back over 12 volts when finished.
Have not tested it, but will. I'm thinking my after-market dash read-out is a small voltmeter, so will tell me when it's time to fire. True?
Do you have any Meters above the entry steps? Should have Propane shut off, 110 voltage into coach, and 12 volt storage readout. ^.^d
The reading in the audit screen is NOT accurate on any Foretravel unless you have calibrated it (never tried-- as I never paid any attention to it). The audit system gets its voltage reading a LONG way from the battery!
Doesn't your remote panel for the Truecharge 40+ give you a voltage reading when shore power is off?
I would turn off shore power. Read voltage at house battery bank, and compare its reading with that at the Truecharge remote panel and audit. Suspect the Truecharge will be a more accurate reading.
We've had power outages, and have never seen the Truecharge light up. Will double check, but it seems blank in a no power situation.
Not to be argumentative but 12.17 volts is fifty percent discharge for a 12V battery. Google "battery percent discharge versus battery voltage" should get a chart. Really is best to stay above fifty percent discharge and that .17 volts does make a big difference as measured at the battery.
Roland
So I don't look like a horse's ass at Q, what battery voltage (yes I have a VOM) should I measure before I fire the gen-set?
Here are some Pictures of mine;
Mike, 12.20 with no load would need recharging.
Check the chart start your generator when you are comfortable with the state of discharge.
Roland
My experience is that the best time to run the generator is in the afternoon while most people are away doing other activities. The worst time is after bed time and in the evening when everyone is setting around the campfire. You will find that many folks run their generators in the morning after 9:00 AM for cooking and coffee. I feel preemptive use of the generator is the best bet. Run it when it will annoy the fewest number of neighbors, not when you have emptied the batteries.
We stayed at Organ Pipe N.M. many times, a dry camp. I'd wait until someone else fired their gen-set, and then it was open season. Most of us that have them are very aware of our neighbors. I have posted before about some high liners with ATS that switched over to gen in the middle of the night. :facepalm:
Also, Mike, you will find there is quite a bit of parking space in the area where we gather. Unless you like bumping elbows with your neighbor (some do), you can usually park so as to leave plenty of room between yours and the next coach. This helps to decrease worrying about the noise factor when running your generator. If you just use a little common sense about when you fire it up, it simply will not be a problem. And, if you happen to park next to a coach that runs their generator excessively, just pick up and move to a quieter spot. No problem!
Trying to get a straight answer on what an AGM can be discharged to on the web is a joke. I have read everything from they can be discharged down to. Many saying 40% and then others showing different voltages for the 50% mark. Frustrating
Battery Voltage vs. State of Charge | SailboatOwners.com Forums (http://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/battery-voltage-vs-state-of-charge.176854/)
You can discharge as low as you want, the problem is more deep cycle discharges affects your battery life. Generally if you keep your discharges to 80% battery capacity, you might get 2000 cycles on an agm. The more you go over that, the shorter the battery life [less cycles before losing capacity]. Best bet is to buy a trimetric battery monitor and use it to control your discharges.
Personally I do not go below 70%, which is approx, 12.3 volts on a resting battery. If I have to go below 70% before recharging, I try to add more capacity.
Thanks, all, I'll look at your suggestions, 'cause I need something more than I have. I shut the power down and the True Charge goes blank, but the dash screen shows battery condition. I'm not going out with my VOM to check the batteries every time I boondock. I don't even know how to get that shroud off!
What about one of those cigarette lighter voltmeters? They be reasonable price wise on e bay. Not sure what battery bank those outlets are on though. May be worthwhile to check.
Roland
To remove the battery cover, just pull on the top of the black rubber "T" handles. Remove the PVC vent at the back and the cover comes right off.
You do not have to access the battery each time you want to check-- all you have to do is a "deviation table" between accurate "at house batteries" reading and at the Audit screen (which is also house battery). Do this through one dry camp/discharge cycle and you can get pretty close to the "at battery reading" from the Audit plus deviation table. Your Audit uses a LOT less power than the OE CRT that it replaces, but still some.
Furnace fan is the BIG draw in propane-furnace equipped coaches, so minimizing heater run time will extend battery charge life.
Mike these are cheap but seem to work, I bought 2 for the dash
LED Display Cigarette Lighter Electric Voltage Meter For Auto Car Battery New F5 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/LED-Display-Cigarette-Lighter-Electric-Voltage-Meter-For-Auto-Car-Battery-New-F5-/291937842004?hash=item43f8d9f354:g:v8gAAOSwc0FUnWHd)
Was not sure what this was, so a vent? It is loose (though someone calked the thru-wall) . I'll tell Judy YOU suggested we keep the heater time down when boondocking, I'm sure she'll appreciate the suggestion! :))
Yes, that 90 degree black PCV is the vent for the battery bank-- all quite stock.
It "wiggles" out before removing the fiberglass battery cover and easily wiggles back in as the last step in reinstallation.
The cigarette lighter digital voltmeters work great. The dash plug is engine battery voltage, with the side panel plug for the house.
I installed a couple of voltmeters using the wiring for the old Audit system. You can tap into wires 8 and 9 for engine and coach batteries respectively. See PDF A-2701.01 below. It's easy to get to the wires right under the flip up dash top.
I use the digital meters all the time while I'm driving or when parked to see where the house voltage is. Avoids nasty surprises!
Pierce
I've been concerned about keeping the RV hooked up to shore power long term, especially with an older converter. Would it be better to add a modern 3-stage battery charger to the system? If so, I would be interested in any recommendations.
Sven,
First a question: are you only looking for a "smart charger" or are you wanting to upgrade to an inverter/charger? So, what do you have now. Many inverter chargers in 2000 did include smart chargers
Absolutely, the old converters only supply float voltages.
I thought all 2000's came with inverters with 3 stage charger.
Mine has inverter and I too think they all came with inv'
JohnH
Measured voltages on batteries have little meaning without knowing what what was happening to the batteries in the last couple hours before the measurement was taken!
Disconnect a floaded battery which is being charged, voltage will be 13.8 to 14.6 volts. Voltage will drop fairly quickly at first then more slowly and after two hours voltage will be 12.9, after 12 hours it will be 12.8 which indicates it is fully charged. Twenty four hours later voltage will be 12.75, still fully charged. Gel battery voltages will stabilize at 0.10 to 0.30 volts higher than for a flooded battery.
A fully charged 8D Gel battery which has been disconnected for 2 days and shows voltage of 12.9 is fully charged. Connect a 5 amp light bulb to this battery and monitor voltage. In 20 minutes voltage will read 12.40 volts even though battery is still 98% charged. This is the nature of a battery. After the first 20 minutes, Voltage will continue to drop at a rate of .02 volts per hour, and after 24 hours the battery will be about 50% discharged and show a voltage of 11.92. After disconnect, battery voltage will rise, fairly quickly at first until a day later voltage will read about 12.20, which indicates about 50% charged.
The most reliable way to know when to start your generator is using an amp hour meter.
Got a suggestion as to a brand you like? ^.^d
home - Bogart Engineering (http://www.bogartengineering.com/)
Mike,
Check your charger remote panel. You should see "amp" charge rate on it. If running the generator to charge the batteries, watch as charge rate drops off.
Most efficient use of generator to charge batteries is to discharge to 50%, run generator to recharge to 80%, discharge to 50%...... Yes, once a week you do need to bring the batteries back up to full charge.
So as ammeter drops from 40...30...20...10 I suspect somewhere between 10 and 20 amp charge rate running the generator longer would not be economically feasible.
Another trick we learned while traveling for extended periods of time in Mexico with a friend with another coach is that we traded off running our generators when just using it for battery charging. So, easy to plug in your coach to anyone nearby running a generator using adapters and an extension cord into a regular 120 VAC outlet on the other coach, and with all 120 VAC loads in your coach off, you really aren't drawing that many amps of 120 VAC from your neighbor.
Another option is a small gasoline generator. Wouldn't take a very large one to power your (very efficient) Trucharge 40+.
Lots of options.
Ok I'll bite. At what amp hrs to I turn the geny on,
,prolly depends on the size and number and type of batteries. Arg
No dang wonder they put auto start on these things. Toooo many variables.
I have noticed, after power outages, even with the gen-set giving back-up, it takes some time to bring the batteries up to "ready', maybe a good feature with the Truecharge. The coach batteries are "Lifeline GPL-8DL", installed 11/14. The starters are "Optima 800 CCA spirals",installed 2012. I noticed you installed fresh 8DLs in 2005, not a bad life. I note, now, on shore power, both battery banks are showing 13.4/13.7, the center "Total Current Charge" light is sitting at "10", System light up above says "ready". Wish that nice Truecharge would give me indication of battery drain when off-grid. Thanks, M
Mikey, do not fret as there are lots of people going to be there and do you think we/they will let you have a brown out?? well depends on the drink available. Worry about something really important, like what to eat for supper/
JohnH
Actually with a battery monitor like the trimetric, you enter in your battery capacity and fully charge your batteries to set the 100% point. After that the monitor will keep track of your discharge and charging, and display all this information, and give you a percentage of battery capacity you have left.
You can then turn on your generator when the batteries get a point when you want to start charging.
@Mike,
I do pretty much the same as Kent but I start my gen at 8:00am run for 2 hours then shutdown. Depending on what we are having for lunch might start the gen to run the microwave then shut down. At 8:00pm start gen to give he batteries a boost before going to bed. You'll need the extra boost for the furnace(s) overnight. Shutdown at 10:00pm.
I don't run the microwave off the inverter. It's a battery killer. If I really need to microwave I start the gen for a few minutes.
The caveat to all this is that it's Quartzite we don't have no stinking rules! If you are cold or hungry and need to start your gen do it. You can apologize later.
see ya
ken
-st
Brett, I checked the PROsine manual and verified that there is a smart multi-stage charger that I was unaware of. Still a lot to learn.... sure beats that Safari we looked at in Liberty!
Yup, that Safari was one of the rougher units I have ever inspected. Wise decision to pass on that one.
And, make sure your inverter/charger is properly programmed. Programming includes: Battery type, battery size (amp-hrs) and temperature unless you have the optional battery temperature sensor.
Mike here is another instrument you may want to consider. I have used two Trimetric units in the past and found them very useful. For my panel in the FT, I chose a Victron instead. After using both, I prefer the 702. Here is a link that has general info but also downloads for more detailed info.
Victron Energy Battery Monitor BMV-702 (http://www.invertersupply.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=4470&cPath=0_573&gclid=CjwKEAiAkajDBRCRq8Czmdj-yFgSJADikZgg0ISIBazOmomHbCfZ8lXnLqg_RANcPwUbG2M26zedlBoCM-Pw_wcB)
If your concerned with annoying your neighbors. If, when you roll in, nobody is around yet camping. Just fire everything up, Genny, stereo, BBQ, etc. That way others won't want to be so close to you that you need to worry about if and when you need to fire up your generator. If another comes in and parks next too you, start the party! :D
Make sure the stereo is blasting out particularly irritating rap "music" with a bone-jarring deep base thump and liberal use of profanity. ^.^d
Hmm, good idea, we've sure parked next to those folks. The CD we should all carry to drive neighbors nuts would be the most obnoxious song of all time: Iron Butterfly doing "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" I'd buy the special version with the terrible drum solo! ^.^d
I beg your pardon ,But Iron Butterfly is not the worst song in history, Anything by this woman is, We're going to get fussed at now for getting off topic,But, .....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swG6Rry9Tss
After sampling both, I have to go with Stump's entry...
Yup, I agree, that would fry my batteries! ^.^d
Did not like her then and still dont >:(
Since the 1970s, I have absolutely loved and listened to Iron Butterfly doing "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" at least 100 times (with the long drum solo). The rest of Iron Butterfly is so-so, so to me, they were a one hit wonder, but.what a wonder it was!
No problem with Iron Butterfly or on-board generators (we run ours lots), but those guys in 5th wheels running construction generators 24x7 probably have a death wish...
The correct title for the Iron Butterfly tune is "In The Garden Of Eden"
It sounded a lot better to me in the 70's, lounging in some good friend's apartment, drinking Strawberry Hill and inhaling the secondary smoke from cigarettes of unknown composition. :thumbsup:
After reading through the topic, I have to agree that a smart meter is the way to go, especially with a digital readout. It will give the truest reading and you can set your own comfort level. They're very easy to wire. The Trimetric works wonders for me, and helps on those rainy days that don't charge the batteries for my solar (I still get charge when it's cloudy, but not enough) giving me a good reading.
As for the musical tastes, yes, that HAS to be the most annoying sound ever to be inscribed to vinyl!
For those who would like to show us the CORRECT musical taste, I am bringing my karaoke setup for them to prove it.
Hey, the Other Chuck!
Glad to hear you will be at Q. Looking forward to meeting my namesake. Looks like we will have a excellent GV turnout!
The (other) Chuck
Are we over 20 coaches? How dispersed?
Won't know how many until everyone shows up. Most will be at the "Lemon" BLM location - some will be at RV parks in town.
As of this moment, two GV here and three bus style at the gathering spot. Three more bus style in town that we have seen. Stay tuned for further details :))
Ok so started thinking about where to put another battery type 31?
I read about 3 red tops and looked where my 2 are... rember that wyatt uses all batteries......
I have room for maybe 2 of these.. clear path to the other batteries 8d for house. Can I just connect there? Maybe this is a discussion at Q..
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/SSBL/AGM31DT/N0056.oap?mn=Super+Start&mc=SSB&pt=N0056&ppt=C1980
From our buddies at o rielys, thoughts...
Check the 31 series at Autozone. About the identical specs but at $117, it's half price. Both have 18 mo warranty. I have three Autozone Duralast batteries I put in seven years ago. Still cranks as fast in winter as when I put them in. Made by Johnson Controls. Read reviews on page below.
It got put in the wrong category on the page. Supposed to be under "truck."
Duralast Battery 31-950 - Read 1 Reviews on Duralast #31-950 (http://www.autozone.com/miscellaneous-non-automotive/lawn-garden-and-utility-battery/duralast-battery/97512_0_0)
Pierce
It shows it not available.
Best Truck Battery Parts for Cars, Trucks & SUVs (http://www.autozone.com/batteries-starting-and-charging/truck-battery)
Perhaps your location had something to do with not in stock. I checked again and my page shows it in stock. But to be sure, I called them and they do have the 31-950 in stock for the $117.99 They are open until ten. :D :D :D
31-950 is available the link I had was for a different number. 31P-B
Pierce... ok for house battery use?
When and if our 24 series Duralasts need replacing, I'll go with the 31 series. Because they are a commercial battery, the warranty is much shorter. But the large distance between the plates and the bottom of the case means when the battery ages, the plate deposits that drop to the bottom won't cause the cell to short.
Sam's Club also has Duracells in stock locally at excellent prices from $94 for HD. Their deep cycle Duracell AGM 31 series seem to be an extra good deal at $179.94 Sam's Club is almost everywhere. http://www.samsclub.com/sams/search/searchResults.jsp?searchCategoryId=all&searchTerm=31%20series%20battery&fromHome=yes&_requestid=7174599 Sam's club has locations almost everywhere. I've gone in Sam's Club from Puerto Penasco to Agua Caliente in Mexico also.
For fouroureyes: I would use the Sam's Club deep cycle AGM 31 series as it's designed for the discharge cycles that RV house batteries see. It's RV deep cycle. See specs at: http://www.samsclub.com/sams/duracell-agm-deep-cycle-marine-and-rv-battery-group-size-31dtmagm/prod3590232.ip?xid=plp:product:1:5
Pierce
If I don't boondock and am always on shore power why do I need to buy the large expensive batteries? Seems like all I need is a couple of deep cycle batteries for the few minutes I am not on shore power. Do I then need to reconfigure the prosine inverter?
Yes, if you change either battery technology or size, your inverter/charger needs to be reprogrammed.
Hi, per others found this on Craigslist
gnb marathon m12v155ft Ed xcide.... will it work on a motorhome
Pierce check Truck Pro on group 31 batteries I use them in my Peterbilt, I think the last set was between 70-89 bucks each. I have a cash account set up in their system if you need some let me know and ill pass the info to you. It might save you enough to buy a 6 pack.