crazy thought - but instead of a $4-10K solar setup - how about a Honda 2000i invertor/generator and a 2 gallon can of gasoline? almost can't hear the thing, and put a lot of amps to your charger to recharge the battery bank. $999 on-line for generator
Maybe carrying a gas can not the most comfortable idea, but probably in my case I could add a rack to the tow hitch on the aft of the coach pretty simply and keep the gas out of the coach
dumb idea? now if you boon-dock a LOT and never plug in, solar is a very nice deal, but people saying 1 KW and up needed seems like you would never get back your $$$ even with a 30% tax credit vs. small super quiet generator
Tim, it's what my dad has done 15 yrs with a 1000w !
I'm looking at the generac 2000w... $800 same dB but way different UI for readings etc... I'm giving this a serious look even with 900 watts on the roof. ^.^d
Isn't that the answer, though? You would only need the solar if you planned to boon-dock a lot.
Rough calculations: $10,000 x 70% after tax credit = $7,000 investment
$50/night campground rough cost.
$7,000 / $50 = 140 nights of "boondocking" when you would have been "campgrounding" = returned investment.
You could do it cheaper with a generator. But I think "quiet" is relative term that it seems many people have vastly differing opinions on. It is also more location-restrictive. It also includes setup and breakdown sweat equity, plus similar weather restrictions.
In the end, I think it's really about your personal scenario and what you plan to do with it. If you are going sightseeing all day - it's nice knowing that when you get back you'll have a full battery, in a scenario when leaving the generator on wouldn't have been possible.
(Full disclosure - We are getting ready to drop many CB in a new solar setup)
You can get close to a 1000w for a little over 2k.with an excellent controller. Now if you need/want to replace the rest of the system you are talking 7500-10000 with inverter, lithium or lifelines, panel and solar. If you purchase Solar with those items, then each is part of the credit. 5250 -7000k and 1500 or so for solar alone.
We used Honda 2000s for our Fox until we installed 550w solar with four 6v.. The next two years we used the genset for two days. Don't forget time to charge with the gen set running. Yes we prefer boondocking.
I am getting the Generac unit - will post next month after I try it out - have had good experience with the 2000i, but have a buddy at Generac
Let us know the Generac's I have seen were loud compared to Honda.
One other quick comment. Hybrid systems aren't as prevalent with drop in panel prices but using the gen set for bulk and turning it off and letting solar economically top it off is also effective. We also used a Black and Decker Smart Charger to go directly to the battery before solar.
Tim,
If you look before you leap, you can have a great solar system for well under $2000 for about 1200 potential watts plus the batteries of your choice for a bit more. Solar panels are now $0.35 to $0.50 per watt and our controller for the 1140 watt potential is only about $500 now. You need house batteries anyway so no big deal to make sure they like discharge cycles. May be able to use the existing bats plus a couple more.
Glad to break down the cost of our components. We use the OEM inverter for a couple of big and small flat screens, latte maker and microwave. Never come close to flattening the bats.
You are still limited in the number of hours you can run a generator of any kind in a lot of campgrounds including the National Parks. Generators usually go rich at altitude and then stink.
Plus I hate even the smallest noise when camping. So do tent campers who may be right next to you in a NP. Same for any vibration and I'm not about to take a generator out of a compartment.
I never even start the generator except to exercise it every few weeks. If camping in warm areas in summer, then we start it but we live in the mountains so not usually necessary. Yellowstone and GT are way up so no AC is ever needed.
Yes, took the tax credit. Years later, its still working without a hitch. Gas generators require more maintenance plus you have to carry gasoline. The efficiency is much less than a diesel generator. No, no, never going to happen here.
Good topic!
Pierce
like I said, different strokes.
I would not do solar as a DIY, so wonder how to get to the numbers you are quoting.
and I don't full time or boondocks that much (NASCAR excepted, but the roar of generators at NASCAR is usually drowned out but the roar of the race cars)
Adding a fourth battery a no brainer as I see it, and 200W on roof for battery maintenance is a piece of mind thing.
Beyond that, in my case, don't see the benefit. Others will. that is what makes the forum a fun place.
At NASCAR the cheap Champion and Harbor Freight generators drown out the cars where we park.
If you ever go solar you would never regret it. I have 854 watts of solar on roof. I use on board Gen for Air conditioning and microwave. I also have a Honda 2000I generator that I use maybe 2 hours a year, That said last year when my Transfer switch failed the Honda was a lifesaver. I have boon docked for 24 days straight with very little fuel use. The feedback on the Generac 2000 is very good with noise level about or a little lower than the Honda. You just have to decide what works best for you.
Bill ^.^d ^.^d
@ Tim. I am confused now. You already have a Diesel generator in your FT U320 right, so in addition to that you are thinking about carrying a portable gas Generator?
Tim,
Can you setup the generator to burn propane instead of carrying a gas can?
John M
I just used my onboard generator. Worked great.
I have a Honda generator. Carried a 2000i for many years now have a 3000i. I also have solar, only 450 watts or so but then I only have two 8Ds and the system works quite well. Would not be without the Honda would not be without the solar. The on board diesel generator is loud and is always running at full output. We have and still camp in the woods not much sun there. Can't run the microwave or the convection oven on solar and we use both. This is our house we are not energy misers. We use everything sometimes mostly solar, sometimes mostly the Honda sometimes the big Beast in the front end. All depends where we are and what we are doing. We also boondock most of the time as I do not like claustrophobic campgrounds nor do I like paying to use my own stuff but I do like my conveniences. DWMYH.
Roland
I bought a cheap Harbor Freight 2 cycle, generator it puts out about 800 peak watts. Less than $80 on sale. Its very small, so is the 1/2 gallon gas can mixed with oil to power it.
I bought it for EXTREME back-up.
If the batteries in the coach or car fail I can power up the generator and hook it to the battery charger to charge the dead batteries. I can also easily bring power with me to a remote location. It IS LOUD!
I'm interested in Tim's solution. Might make sense especially when camping in forested area like MOST of the country were shade hinders solar. When we visit a campground we ALWAYS migrate to a shaded area , the more trees the better. The campsites that are in the wide open are always the last ones people pick to camp at. I would not want to have to pick the least desirable spots simply because I have to power my solar panels.
Maybe a balance is whats required, Some solar, and the super quite generator for those other situations were solar won't work or can't be trusted for power. A propane generator would be perfect.
I carry the same HF generator for the same reason...extreme backup. Haven't had to use it yet but it's a small, cheap insurance policy for extended dry camping, which I don't do often enough to justify solar.
Backup to solar and diesel gen. EARTHQUAKE - Groundbreaking Power Equipment - 800 Watt Inverter Generator (http://www.getearthquake.com/inverter-generator-800-watt)
Use it with a 40 amp battery charger. Never had to use it on the coach, but have lent it to several people with no solar and bad generators. Very quiet [about same as honda eu2000], is inverter [variable speed] a 4 stroke, and runs about 12 hours on a gallon of gas. Weights about 20 lb.
I know a guy on here that does that. Got a kit for his eu2000i. If you are just charging batteries, maybe the smaller 1k one might be even easier to handle.
Yamaha makes one too. And even harbor freight just came out with a new inverter generator recently (2nd generation) that uses copy yamaha engine I think.
Call me paranoid but I have gone through times of cold weather,
low batteries that did not want to start the main generator, much
less the coach engine. After several near misses and fortunately
someone was always around with a battery and jumper cables,
I bought a small generator and have carried it for years. The box
can no longer be read, but I get it out every time the we go from
Daylight to Standard time and crank it. Maybe it is time for me
to roar into the 21st Century and look at solar, but for now I have
my little generator, like Linus has his blanket.
Carter-
We were desert dirt riders and tailgaters jet skiing so a generator was a nice addition if you wanted hot food after a day or riding.
Bought a Honda 1000. Not enough power to run a high power microwave. Bought a 2000 Honda. Nice machine.
Sort of preppers and the Honda rep in the Bay Area had a Honda companion i2000 gen demo he had never started so I bought that one from him.
Got the cabling to tie them together electrically so the auto throttles work at the same time.
Then bought gas caps to be able to feed both gens off of a bigger fuel supply.
Then bought a six gallon tank to feed both machines. And the fuel lines.
And covers for all three.
Used to carry one 2000 and one 1000 but never needed them. Knock wood.
Need to wire a sub panel in our house to use the 3200 watt dual i2000 setup in case of need.
Maybe not a good thing to have a lit up powered house in a long term emergency when others do not have power.
Twilight zone time?
My luck the building will collapse and destroy the gens.
Motorhome would be a better power source with 80amps output. Seen it posted about.
Sorry for the hijack.
In a dead quiet area even the i1000 Honda is noticeable running.
Need a sound box for it?
Forgotten I have bought the high altitude jets for these and spare plugs
Well a Honda 2000EUi puts out a whopping 8 amps at 12 v, 96 watts. It will take a long time to charge 3 8Ds.
One doesn't use the 12VDC output, use the 120VACand use the RV main charger.
EDIT fixed typo
What would you use 120VDC for.
Sorry, typo....120VAC
Though 120VDC is used is industrial applications, lol.
Many industrial motors are ac or dc.
Wave of the future. Everything run by inverters powered by 48 v battery bank charged by 48 v dc generator.
Possible to run entire coach including ac's for 3 days before generator lights off.
Press Release: Resuming Production - Parliament Motor Coach (http://parliamentmotorcoach.com/press-release-060316/)
High amp DC power might be exciting if a short occurred,
Gives them something to talk about after being closed for years
The ~120VDC is mostly for control systems that need to run if the power goes out. There's a battery room that puts the ~120VDC out. This may be more of the older places.
DC motors are obsolete in almost all industry. VFD's have replaced them.
42VDC (36v nominal) was the big talk in the car industry in late 90's early 2000's. I remember reading about it in the enginerd magazines. Obviously, it didn't take root.
Perhaps the years of open headers, straight piped farm equipment and jet engines has taken a few decibles from my ears, but if the "noise" from a 2000W Honda gen is that offensive, one may want to purchase a set of QC15's or hang out in the BWCA.
We camp in dead quiet open desert. No wind. Your ears ring from previous city noises.
In those locales the Honda 1000 is audible for more than 100 feet
Yes, the 120V AC will be used to charge batteries via on board 120V charger, not the 12v DC output.
Like I said, different strokes for different folks, but will try this one first with super quiet 2000i invertor. May eventually end up with a couple jigawatts on the roof at a later date Yup, my ears are trashed, so I hardly notice my 10KW. But others do
Other forums have said they can run 55 amp chargers from the Honda 2000 with overheating issues. There were also concerns about running any 120v devices in your coach while connected to the Honda as a power source to run the charger half of the inverter. What happens if the charger want to push 100 amps to the batteries and the 1600 watts (minus power factor losses and inefficiencies, maybe 25%) is not enough power? This is pretty much like plugging your coach into a 15 amp circuit at best.
Let us know how it works.
Many inverter/chargers allow you to set your max incoming amperage to 15 amps. On mine, if other house loads add up to 10, inverter/charger will only supply 5 amps to charging section. You can use these settings so as not to trip out your small generator. For me, easier to use a dedicated separate charger plugged into your small generator
Here is some Honda Whisper Quiet inverter generators that run on propane. No need for gasoline. Little pricey but it's an option.
John M.
Honda Propane & Natural Gas Generators (http://www.genconnexdirect.net/honda_propane_modified_generators.htm)
This is must be the replacement for my charger. Mine was an excellent match with the Honda 2000i. Still carry it for the towed or if needed for the Optimas. As I mentioned before, go direct to the battery and no issues. You are still going to be running a while to get 8ds fully charged.
Amazon.com: Black & Decker BC40BD 40 Amp Battery Charger with 110 Amp Engine... (http://www.amazon.com/Decker-BC40BD-Battery-Charger-Engine/dp/B00PAQ6S7I)
This is what I use, actually works with earthquake 800 watt generator.
stanley12volt (http://www.stanley12volt.com/bc4009)
Agree, a separate charger direct to the battery is better, protects your inverter. I gave a smart Sterling charger. Start, and two house Banks, very nice. I can plug it into any supplu including the one in the coach.
Sterling ProCharge Ultra 40 Amp Boat Battery Charger (http://baymarinesupply.com/chargers-inverters/sterling/sterling-procharge-ultra-battery-charger-12-volt-40-amp.html)
FWIW,
I saw this on home depot site and though I didn't buy one, it seems like it is a good deal. I realize that it is not as highly regarded as the honda. It is however about the cost of the propane conversion kit for the honda (a little over 200). It does appear to run only on propane. Sportsman 2,000-Watt Clean Burning LPG Propane Gas Powered Portable Generator... (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Sportsman-2-000-Watt-Clean-Burning-LPG-Propane-Gas-Powered-Portable-Generator-GEN2000LP/202222976)
Hutch mountain makes a nice tri-fuel conversion kit. Allows use of propane, gasoline, and natural gas. DIY'rs could could probably make their own. Good demo video.
Home | Hutch Mountain (http://hutchmountain.com)
Some people have even built their own quiet boxes which reduces the dbs and does not build too much heat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ8KkjBmbZs
agree- I really like the solar - but for me the math doesn't seem to make sense - also nice on resale, but doubt one would see 50% of investment back at resale.
the 2000i is barely audible - and no reason you couldn't leave running while you were gone - at least the way I see it.
I probably will add some solar to (100-200W?) to keep up batteries in storage but am balking at the price tag of 1KW+ solar vs. the avoidance of running the generator I already have and adding one of these wisper quiet, frugal gas units to the mix.
In your example -the theoretical 2000i would cost you 20 nights (20 x $50 =$1,000) and I would have the $6,000 left over for other uses.
Different strokes I guess. I think I will go tiered hybrid - engine amps when I am driving. Solar for storage when I am sitting - if boon-docking for long term where I don't need a 10KW diesel generator for A/C, run my little Honda 2000i or Generac equivalent to augment the meager solar on the roof -
will probably implement a fourth 8D where propane is stored, and when I do solar, will try to do it in such a fashion that if I want more panels in the future, they can be added - may not be feasible to "future proof" additional wattage due to cost of solar controller for larger wattage on roof than the 100-200 envisioned.
looking for more comments from the group - much wisdom out there.
Thanks!
yes, Generac is LOUD in the general portable market -especially their lowest cost line (they have at least two portable lines)
Generac says the 2000i is quieter than the Honda, we will see and report back.
http://www.generacpowerproducts.com/portable-generators/generac-iq2000-inverter-generator.axd?src=AW95414XE3763309&gclid=Cj0KEQiA-_HDBRD2lomhoufc1JkBEiQA0TVMmleyEn2iZFzjWrnElFo8PVVDt3oKztaVETrpzpgpLOIaAir48P8HAQ
Tim,
These guys at Fit RV did a db test and said the Generic was quieter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdUSO8kFKVQ
Good video. Every 3db increase is twice as loud. Both are WAY to loud for me.
Pierce
Jerry
Was not speaking of the iQ2000, was talking about their GP line and champion line
IQ2000 is quiet!
I added the security overlay to the handles to our i2000's. Otherwise the plastic handle can be easily cut through.
I am installing solar because:
1. It's cool technology. I am a tech geek.
2. As I get older, there is less tolerance for noise.
3. Big Bend National Park does not allow generators.
4. I like to be a good neighbor. At French Creek National Park, where we frequently camp, there are a lot of mixed tent and RV campers. When I run my generator I feel I am doing them a disservice. Many people camp to hear the natural soundscape.
The solar industry will revolutionize our power grid in the not-so-distant future.
I recently bought a Honda EU2000. I went with the Honda over the generac iq2000 based on all the terrible reviews out there for the iq2000. Many people experience failures and have major issues. Read the reviews. Beyond the freebies they handed out for five star reviews, its pretty sad how many fail.
If you want a good chinese clone to save a few bucks over the honda, check out the Smarter Tools 2000w generator. They use a yamaha engine. The main reason I chose the honda was simply parts and the ability to fix it. I can buy honda parts from dozens of online retailers for a great price, or have my generator repaired at dealers nationwide.
Chinese clones JMO is you MIGHT only get what you pay for, as any quality control is non existent, along with parts. Bought one during an extended power outage to run the home furnace alone. Ran for about 20 hours and then it was kaput from ignition system failure. But they make money by producing huge quantities of cheap trash.
Sorry slightly of topic. I think solar is good for some areas without shade, clouds, or hail storms. But I am interested in those who have solar arrays experience.
Phred, hard to say on your coach because you are moving all the time, but have 1000 watts on the roof with mppt controller and 2 4d agm 200 ah batteries running a 7 cf freezer through a 2000 psw inverter and have never had to use a charger.
But, I am in south Texas with panels pointed somewhat south. After 2 days without sun am down to about 60% charge.
We have had our 900 w of solar and 3 8D AGM Lifelines for almost 6 yrs and would not change a thing. Allways have enough power and we have res fridge too. Never go below 78% batteries and unless we get stuck in snow and no sun for 2 days never need Gen set.
No issues with us and waste of time just talking about it, just do it as you will not be sorry. Only paid for around 20 nights of full hook up in those years rest boondocking or Hwy. No brainer to us- paid for itself and saved thousands too.
JohnH
I crossed three oceans and lived full time on my Boat with 270 watts of solar, I did have a wind generator as well,
I never ran out of power,
The PO of my boat lived for 8 years on it on a swing mooring in Fiji, he sold the generator as he never used it,
These 270 Watts are now on my coach, They keep my batterys fully charged, I have no generator, Just the coach motors alternator,
It has a $30-00 30 amp Regulator from China, and a 30 amp in line fuse,
Thats my complete solar set up for the coach,
The new solar set up for my boat when its repaired will be two 250 Watt panels, They are $270-00 a Panel delivered, a 40 amp regulator, about $40-00 and a inline fuse, $5-00 at the most,
I have no need for a generator on either my boat or Coach, As I dont use the A/C units,
But you will need a generator for A/C and your 110 Volt equipment to operate,
I am slowly converting every thing to 12 volts as its cheaper to buy,
Unfortunately American, are now "hot" at about 75 deg. F. Due to humidity. And the fact that we drive fully climate controlled cars
Special Buy Of The Day (http://www.homedepot.com/SpecialBuy/SpecialBuyOfTheDay)
FWIW,
Today only Home Depot has a deal on their brand Ryobi 2200 watt generator. I like the honda better than this one. This one seems to be a good deal and has pretty good reviews. I just thought it worth mentioning. Best of travels.
For "extreme" backup, instead of carrying a small cheap portable generator, I carry a set of jumper cables and have my car as a genset.
I thought about buying this, but I went on amazon to read the reviews. About 50% said they had issues with it (from complete failure, to annoying things). The Honda has nearly 100% 5star review...only complaints are it "costs more" lol. Saving a few hundred $$$ is of little value when the damn thing won't work. I'm going honda!
I had to use your extreme backup system over Thanksgiving when my one of my cats stepped on the boost button after we left (coach was unplugged), and we came home on Sunday night to 10+ V batteries in the snow. That was an interesting evening.
The boost button had a cover the following day.
I can't deny the allure of the solar and the cool factor but small generator to run the battery charger is my method. You'd have to boondock non-stop for MANY YEARS for the generator gas to overcome the cost of the solar. And honestly, if I am boondocking close enough to someone that they care about the sound levels of a honda inverter generator, I am doing it wrong.
Read Health effects from noise - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_from_noise)
Enlighting.
I removed my 55 gal muffler and replaced with a resonator. I put a shelf inside the door in the extra space, and I can put my honda eu2000 on shelf and close the door. Because it is open on the bottom, plenty of air for the gen., but gen. is actually quieter than one running air conditioner. Use solar to charge batteries most of the time, but in some places, you have to park under the trees.
Any issue with carbon monoxide being blown up into bedroom?
No, only run long enough to charge batteries, in the daytime. Would not run while sleeping.
I have a Honda that is getting old. My guess is 10 years but memory is not my best subject.
I used it exactly as you describe on my SOB class A. 95% of my use was boondocking and it worked perfectly. I charged the batteries with the Honda using a good quality battery charger from a sailboat. I used the inverter for any 120 volt needs.
If I wanted AC I had to run the coaches gen set but that was pretty rare.
I was getting at least 12 hours on a gallon of gas. I only had 2 small 6v coach batteries so it didn't take long to charge them up.
Most likely will do the same thing once I find my Foretravel.