A small look at the Taveler III chassis for Foretravel by Spartan.
John M.
Looks similar to the Spartan I viewed at Pomona FMCA. Maybe bigger compartment spaces.
Is that there van that they are converting as well.
Is it just me ... or do the drive axle air bags seem to be a little bit further inboard than where the older coaches had them?
John S
That was another section I believe it was Road Trek.
Saddlesore
I can take closer picture of the bags and post them.
Thanks. I heard that FT was working on their first conversion van and wondered if that was it.
Everyone wanted Foretravel to produce a smaller unit. Times are a changing.
Foretravel must evolve. Cut cost and produce better products. Action on their part is welcome. I praise them for taking action and not sitting on their ______.
Here are pictures of the air bag locations with their shocks. First picture is the front wheel. Front has only one bag on each side with the shock underneath. The next picture is the forward side of the Dually air bag and shock. The next picture is the backside of the Dually air bag and shock. Dually's' have 2 bags per side. The next two pictures are the tag axle air bag and shock locations. The last 3 are the 2 IH's and the Realm they brought to the show.
John M.
Thanks... Looks like the bags on the drive and tag are the same placement as older coaches. They had to go to a 2 bags per axle on the steer due to the IFS design..
Planning to put eyes on these new coaches today, Friday.
Tell the Chassis people at the show to UNSCRUNCH the blue shock cover on the tag axle, looks hokey and thrown together.
I noticed that too - it OFFENDS the eye!
Perhaps they have the tag lifted up for some reason, and the cover didn't "accordion" like it's supposed to...?
Maybe so But when you are trying to sell a chassis under a Million Dollar Plus Coach, Your Shocks dust cover should not be SCRUNCHED! ^.^d
Is this at the Foretravel display?
On the shock cover I think that comes under "Attention to Details" I fight this problem every day at the office.
Here is a link to the next generation Foretravel motor. More power for Brad.
World's largest engine makes 109,000 horsepower - the Titanics were 'only'... (http://www.thevintagenews.com/2016/01/08/45014/)
John
Note: still scrunched as of 1:00 pm on Friday. Mentioned it but nothing was done.
reply 10, 11, 12,, 13 I agree !!!!!! this kind of (lack) of attention to detail drives me crazy. I guess that's way the maintenance people hated to see me coming. Little things lead to big problems in the aviation world. I had little tolerance.
Let's just say there are two sides to all stories...I do agree with attention to detail. (Spell check anyone?). Sorry "Guy", just a jab from a maintenance puke. For those of you not in the know, this back and forth between pilots and mechanics goes all the way back to Black Sheep Squadron. 8) >:D
Hey Falcon Guy...PM me. If we have not met I am sure we have mutual acquaintances
Spell check doesn't catch it when you just type the wrong word,and geeezzzzz I think I reread that at least twice. Saw it after I posted but too late then. Getting old sucks. :headwall:
"quote author=John S link=msg=258573 date=1484831615]
Thanks. I heard that FT was working on their first conversion van and wondered if that was it.
[/quote]
There is another mfg. making a "High Quality" limited numbers class "B"..... Thoughts????
Regency RV enters Class B market with Sprinter unit | RV Daily Report (http://rvdailyreport.com/industry/regency-rv-enters-class-b-market-with-sprinter-unit/)
There are several higher end class B's all in the $140-170 K range. When you are working a a very limited space efficient utilization becomes critical. Most of these fall way short. I hope that FT can focus on what really matters to a Class B user not just making a fancy van conversion. We had a very well designed and built Class B for 33 years that was designed for two people to live in it in the kind of campgrounds we wanted to go to. None of the high end Class B's out there campare favorably in any way except for the MB chassis.
That's my thinking... now "IF" FT were to add a "mini" tag on an "extended" dually wide body frame MB or like chassis...... that may give a bit more "room" on the gross wt issues
There are mfg's that add more bling, but not substance.. There are more than enough component suppliers that contract to the lowest bidder for components...Chinese et all.
Durable components that are quality oriented will be heavier, hence FT will be fighting a weight challenge on a "B" chassis.
but am just throwing darts here...to see what sticks to the wall
Ford transit chassis could work well too. My uncle has a gas one tonne transit it drives and tows well.
what brand was that? I'm always eyeing up older class B's.
I tried to reply to your PM but it says I'm blocked. Thanks for the info, I'd love to see pictures.
1979 Class B by Recreational Engineering. Try again.
Does this mean future models will no longer have steel frame walls, but an aluminum superstructure bolted to the steel chassis (isn't the Realm (and countless other coaches over the years) made like that? I sure hope that isn't the case.
I wonderedthee same thing. The answer is in how they built the realm. I think the old Foretravel is no more and now they have to compete head to head with the likes of Newmar and Entegra. I fear they will not be able to make the price point does as there is nothing that will differentiate them from the competition.
They both may be the same strength.
I can't understand FT only building 45 foot coaches now. Not everyone wants a 45' coach.
Is there even a option for 36', 38', 40' anymore? I'm thinking not, with the chassis' that are available.
I guess market analysis and profit margins say this is the best future for them.
A 40 foot can't go many places I go with my RV. A 45 most definitely can't go.
I wouldn't care to go even an inch longer than my current 38'.
So, FT, is going for "mega-end" coaches, which will fit in very few campgrounds. That is a monster stupid corporate move! Who the hell advises these folks? I don't recall anyone consulting this forum. :o Look how many folks are downsizing, for a great reason,so FT is "old and in the way", and that's sad for all of us!
The current mantra is "Data Drives Decisions." Unfortunately, another rule is also out there that many don't want to pay attention to. That one goes way back to the early days of computers: "Garbage in, garbage out." All of this plays out in many areas of life, not just in what recreational vehicles are available to us. Unfortunately, I suspect that more than a few companies will have to go under before some company decides to listen to what people are actually buying instead of what the marketing people say we want.
If we had gone strictly by the data, once we found out that our engine was shot we would have called an rv salvage yard and let them buy the coach for a few coach bucks. We could have traded the Jeep for an F350, bought a trailer, and been on our way before the first wrench was ever turned on our coach. Instead we spent the time and money to keep it going. Why? We LIKE it. Yes, at some point we'll sell it, and we may not get all of our money out of it - in cash. How much is the enjoyment worth?
Some time ago, on another thread, someone wondered if a company might make a go of a business that buys older Foretravels and updates them for a profit. Maybe that's the way to go. If I were a rich man I'd love to trade in our 1993 U300 for another one that has been updated with maybe a modern engine, transmission and retarder, solar, Aquahot, etc.
Mike all our coaches were originally bought by folks in the 40's and 50's. Now that we are all getting up there in age (60's-70's etc) we see a different world through older eyes. The fact is most other RV companies are increasing length of coaches they build. Entegra in fact I believe only makes 45' coaches. They have sold over a thousand in three years. The hot market for our age group and entry level is the new B class and the Sprinter class C. So I believe Foretravel feels that their 45' units are competitive in the market they look too. Their new entry will be in the next market that we all are looking at. I don't think that they are naive or stupid, I think they know what they want and based on their economics of scale are limited to what they can do.
Entegra builds 38, 40, 42, and 44/45 foot diesel pusher floorplans (and builds mostly the shorter floorplans and particularly the Aspire and Anthem models). They also just introduced a new entry-level, the Insignia, this past year.
Newmar builds quite a few floorplans (and coaches), and starts at 34 foot for diesel pushers.
Just like a kid ... bragging. :)
yeah - I took that out. But we do have AARP cards ;) (for the discounts)
Not to get in a argument here but Entegra had 43ft and 45 ft models until this year with the Aspire model that starts at 40'. That means that for over three years and over 1000 coaches purchased they were all extensively 45' Look at dealers lots like I just did not a single model in some dealerships under 45' long. What we probably agree on is that when you offer a 600 hp beautifully designed motorhome an the Spartan Chassis for half of what a IH45 actually sells for out the door, people will buy them because they are a value for the dollar. Will they last as long as a Foretravel no. One of our forum members just bought a IH45 and got rid of his Entegra Cornerstone. Perhaps he could comment on the basis of their success selling mostly 45' units.
It will be interesting to see. I know I downsized into a 27 foot and jeff and carol into a 24 foot and the Gorings who were motorcade directors just took delivery of the same coach I just ordered. I wonder if the class B van is the downsize step or a camel class c that you can actually be comfortable camping in is the down size. They use to display a 24 foot Born Free inside the showroom in Kodak when he hat store was open. For the one Cornerstone to IH mentioned there are a number who went FT to Cornerstone but now that they are on the same chassis it will be interesting to see what happens. FT just saved a bunch of money by probably reducing the chassis costs with this switch too rather then building it themselves. The sad thing is after 16 years of ownership they are not building a coach that we needed or wanted. They have an installed base just sitting Teresa that they should be marketing too and designing a coach for but missed the mark so far.
Reading this thread has been interesting. Seems the underlying tone is
that we )most of us anyway) are no longer FT customers. We have been
left in the dust in favor of the people that purchase a new million plus
dollar coach. So far they support us with info and various blue prints we need
and parts until they run out and are "no longer available". So far, they tolerate us but
they know we are not the cash flush buyers walking in the door. One thing we all need to be
thankful for are the cross over numbers that are being saved where we can still
get many of those "no longer available" parts elsewhere.
Carter-
Not arguing at all, Elliot :) I was pointing out that there are a couple of decent quality manufacturers who are listening to what the customers are asking for, which might be options for those who don't want a 45 footer. It's some of the research we've been doing for years now since FT isn't building anything that would work for us and we likely have at least 2 more coaches in our RVing timeline. We just need to figure out what those will be.
Not for the immediate future, but we are also watching the "beefy C's" (the F550/5500 chassis models, not the Freightliner Super C) as a downsize vehicle. Nice to have John and folks like him testing those waters for us ^.^d
We downsized to a 2005 Chinook Glacier 2500. It was the closet we could find to the luxury and build quality of a Foretravel. One piece fiberglass body, leather interior, cherry wood cabinets, tile floor, 2000 watt inverter, three battery bank coach batteries, etc. This model was discontinued in 2006. Just an example of what Foretravel could be building.
The way I look at it, I find it very interesting that members etc that have sold or thinking of it are also getting older ( hey what's new) but the vehicles they are buying/talking about are generally smaller. So this brings to me a mixed bag of info.
We all get some form of mobility issues, so going smaller (harder to move around etc) makes me think they woul stay in the style of coach they have ie- have more space so not hit/bang intothings?
or
smaller as they tend to sit in one place all day therefore not need that extra space.
Small bedrooms make it not so comfortable when older (I think)
or
Sleep in a lot longer therefore not noticing the loss of room?
I also believe that driving one of the newer ones mentioned is no different than a 34' or 36'.
Hooking the car is the same, as is dumping, fuelling etc etc.
If we have the age problems making it tough (I am 73 this year so think I am around the same or close age as some making this change) It will be more flying to places or just the car. I agree having your own bed is nice.
Different strokes.
JohnH
If interest rates go up, it's going to be a huge disruption to the RV industry.
Million Dollar buyer's have resource's that average buyer does not have.
John if you go the right size you don't have to tow a car. I think I will only tow part time. I did own a 24 foot born free for 9 years and sold it late last year. I did not want the van front any longer. I started looking at the sprinters and conversions but they max out at 11k so it was a van or weaker compromise. The double slide royal Splendor set up right could sleep six comfortably. My setup has the entertainment center so only sleeps four like my foretravel. It lets us get Up and around and reduces the cost of ownership many fold. Insurance and my taxes will be less and tires will be two coach bucks not six. I will fit many more places and I have driven the FORETRAVEL's over 360k miles so it is time for a change. Like Michelle, we have two more coaches in us and I want to do different things and be mobile but not sit for a month in one location. Yes I have even started staying in hotels since I sold my coach. It is cheaper then taking the coach up every week. I think FT is not building coaches that owners want and this change in chassis is going to put them head to head with Newmar. If I was looking for a big coach today you would need to look at all the brands. I am very excited about what I ordered and it is a custom design and Born free and MOT worked hand in Glove to make it so. I talked to both the factory and MOT and they both told me what could be done.
The entire industry is more than just people buying million dollar RV's.....but even those high end buyers often need to finance.
Except for our trips down here to friends in Mexico we move around all the time and would definitly NOT sit in a rv park for a month as that to us is the opposite of why we have one!! Ruth would jump the next flight home if I said we were going to do that.
We have done some good long trips the last 10 yrs and there was no sitting around for us. I try to get around 500 to 600 miles in a day if our plan is to go somewere then take a leasurely trip back home, or as we did a yr ago for 5 months do a circular of USA and visit as many places as possible and get a good feel of them then return for an extended stay another time to the ones we would like to explore more.
The main reason we added solar was just to be able to do this and the LAST thing I would do is sit outside my coach for a month or more in one place. Yes we do this down here but it actually is not boring as I am busy every day fixing things and also visiting places. Ruth has swimming exercises and other things to keep occupied so time does fly.
But sit doing nothing but talk and drink, I think not. That to us is a waste of life. I gather that is why we do not like Caravaning with others (some would be exceptions) as you are tied to the likes and dislikes of others and the slowest and most troubling issues of the worst.
DWMYH
JohnH
Yep, these itemizers are most likely writing off interest on their second home. Cash is for investment.
And the BRIGHT SIDE is? Our well-kept "classic older" coaches will keep or even increase their value to people who know and understand what are truly gems/works of art/sensible means of class A design meant for being used in many different applications than the 45' yachts meant to be on flat surfaces and in fully equipped RV Resorts.
Yup, some of you may remember the GV I inspected a while ago. After the DW died, it sat in the hot sun for years,I could not start it, natch. He was upset when I told him, without paperwork and a serious restoration, it may be worth 10k, if that. He has since come around and I've offered to help him get her back to pristine. After a Pacifico and two, he offered a great line: "I guess my FT is like finding a '57 Chev Nomad in a barn and bringing her home." ^.^d
Yeah, if the FT had been in a barn..... 8)
I hope Foretravel knows what it's doing. I'm sure the reputation will carry for a while. But I'm having a hard time seeing folks pay $1.2M for an aluminum superstructure built on a steel subframe. In other words, without the semi-monocoque construction (I understand this term has been applied, perhaps, incorrectly in the RV industry) won't Foretravel be like so many other makers, current and past? Oh sure, I guess they can brag they do quality work and have nice wood, etc. But there are other glitzy coaches for less are there not? I could be totally wrong, but I suspect people paying that much, should they be informed, may demand a structural superiority, not just bells and whistles.
Personally, I would certainly prefer a used iH-45 or Phenix to such a coach. For Foretravel's sake, maybe I'm all wet and in a small minority in thinking like this.
Does anyone know if Newell will be similarly affected? I suspect Prevost will be able to support compliance with the EPA rules.
While here @ Cummins in Coburg, OR. I got a good laugh... An Entegra owner and a Monoco Signature owner were comparing the sharp edges and corners and the unfinished looking bottoms of their extended slides...then noticed the smooth lower corners and finished bottom of our coach... didn't say a word ...... The difference is in the details
Mike I think it's great you csn help the guy get iy going , the highways need more classic Grand Villas cruising around.
We'll see, he's got a cheapskate side, that I've told him, will not work if I'm helping him.
Ain't nothing cheap about anything connected with a Foretravel.
Like I told him," I'll help (for no money) get this coach back in service. However, my view is that she should be able to go to Alaska or Nova Scotia, AND BACK." I could be the guy's worst nightmare, but it's the fault of all the forum members that have taught me so much about these dear beasts! ^.^d