I thought for the better part of the day about posting this question. I finally decided that if it could work and I had decided to not mention it or ask about it I would be doing a disservice to the forum.
I live in Texas, we use the air conditioner in the house for about 10 months out of the year. The compressor is outside the house but the coils are housed in a unit in the hallway, (or in some newer homes it lies in the attic). To remove the water created by the coils as they cool the warm air there is a drain at the bottom of the coil unit which carries the water to the main drain from the house. IF this drain becomes clogged you are in trouble. When we bought this house first thing I did was install wood floors. Long story short, previous owners never did any maintenance on a thing so the drain clogged, the water overflowed, leaked out all UNDER the new hardwood floor ( we had not moved in yet) and I ended up replacing half the flooring.
SO on to the purpose of this post. Our A/C man who we have known for many years installed a device which costs about 40 dollars on the exposed slab under the coil housing. The purpose of the device is if it detects the slightest amount of moisture it immediately cuts the power to the compressor...no more A/C thus no more water created...and the problem is halted until corrected.
Would it not be possible to install this inexpensive device WS-1 - DiversiTech WS-1 - Wet Switch Flood Detector (http://www.supplyhouse.com/DiversiTech-WS-1-Wet-Switch-Flood-Detector) in the rear basement area of a coach with the purpose being if/when it detects any moisture it sounds an alarm or blinks a light in the wet bay or dash?
I'm not trying to insult the intelligence of this forum by posting this query. I have the utmost respect for everyone on the forum, so please understand I am not making a joke here I am asking a serious question.
Could this work?
Be Safe
dave
WS-1 - DiversiTech WS-1 - Wet Switch Flood Detector (http://www.supplyhouse.com/DiversiTech-WS-1-Wet-Switch-Flood-Detector)
Actually it is a good adea and could be incorporatd in the floor framing as it's height is the same size of tubing.
I know Barry & Cindy have moisture alarms in the bays for this purpose and others I am sure do. it is a shame that they need 24v and would imagine that that is AC too.(will have to look again.
JohnH
Check "Water Sensor Alarm" on Amazon or others. Honeywell make a nice long wire sensor. Really affordable. Good idea, Dave!
If you need 24v DC, You can do that easily since you have two 12v DC battery banks.
Trent
It is 24 VAC. Input and output.
They put it in series with the standard home HVAC thermostat. Which is as Roger says 24 VAC.
Dave, John Haygarth has that right, save yourself some money with this recommendation:
Water detector alarms (http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=24048.msg188649#msg188649)
We have many of these, under sinks, behind & under toilet, water manifold, water pump, behind fridge, etc.
Behind toilet just went off from hopefully an errant toilet hose spray.
Barry I mentioned in Post #1 about your usage of these.. Think I may get a couple just in case.
JohnH
I am not sure I would want several of these things with 110db sirens that would just as likely gomoff when we are not there as when we were. We have one of those power out/low temp/water on the floor things at home that calls but it needs a land line.
I have been looking at SimpiSafe alarm systems formuse at home. Cameras, water, smoke, co, low temp and all of the other normal security sensors are available in packages of alacarte. Install it your self. It has a built in cellphone. Alarms get you text messages or email. No land line and no monthly monitoring unless you want it and no contracts. I know there are others out there but this one seems interesting. All I need now is to get something that works with my Echo. Alexa, we are leaving now.
There was a story about a little girle that told Alexa she wanted a doll house. A couple days later one arrived. The local news carried this story and the reporter repeated how she said, "Alexa, buy me a doll house" on the air. In a couple days hundreds of viewers who were listening at the time got new doll houses. Probably urban legend but a good story anyway.
SimpliSafe | Home Security Systems (http://simplisafe.com/security?gclid=CJWI_LS-6tECFda6wAodaq8PTg#pcrid=71897098646&utm_content=1+Min+Install&utm_campaign=br.Branded.Exact&utm_term=simplisafe&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_champion=Yes)
I'm not too keen on alarms since you need to be there to hear it and do something about it. Reminds me of car alarms.
I found a device called a WaterBug on Amazon that will run on 12 volts. It trips a relay with NO and NC contacts.
You can put a solenoid valve on your incoming city water and/or have it cutoff the power to the water pump. You can also use multiple wire sensors (they are just wires) for multiple locations and still use just one Waterbug. The sensor block is just wires potted in a shell container that provides weight to hold it down to the ground. All the sensors wire up to the same two terminal on the device.
You do need to be handy enough to know how to wire relays. The Watebug relay only handles about 1 amp if I recall. So secondary auto relays are likely needed.
Roger,
I have the SimpleSafe system at my house. Works great, and sends text messages as well as emails out on any event that you choose. Never thought of getting one for the coach, but it is an interesting idea. Since my coach is at an enclosed storage facility, it would provide peace of mind.
That is what I was thinking. Power outage, basement cold, water on the floor, smoke, CO, break in, camera. I don't want an audible alarm or at least one the would go on for more than 30 seconds, a text msg would be wonderful especially when we are away from the coach for the day or more.
If you park coach away from your home you should have drained the tank and low points, then no need for alarms/wifi etc.
Think about it.
JohnH
We have SimpliSafe at home and so do our kids at their house. As an insurance agent I'm far more concerned about water detection than burglery. Once when the kids were out of town my wife had just checked their house earlier in the day but my daughter was notified by SimpliSafe that there was a leak in the guest bath. We went to check and found a drip from a cracked tank that would have done thousands in damage by the next time we went to check. I'm a believer.
When I worked in data centers we always had a water detector cable under the raised floor around the entire perimeter of each room and also in areas under water cooled Liebert units or any unit containing water. It's basically a twisted pair of wires and water between the wires creates a direct short and sets off the alarm. The newer ones will tell you approximately where in the loop the water is being detected. The older ones just tell you which loop has detected water, which of course means you have to pull up the deck plates and crawl around under there following a hundred feet of wire with a flashlight until you find the problem... Based on my experience I'd say kill yourself now and make it quick and painless instead of installing one of these things! hahahaha
I use SimpliSafe at home. The system has it's own cell transmitter/receiver. You can install magnetic door switches, motion sensors, smoke alarms, cameras, water or freeze sensors. The alarm company will instantly call you or a person on your call list and send you a text or email. You can monitor and manage your System from any computer, tablet, IPAD or cell phone anytime. With the system in your coach you can change the address of your location anytime. You can name all your sensors so you can identify their location. The system is very easy to install and user friendly. It comes with it's own battery backup in case you lose power.
John M.
I think I read that SimpliSafe can use an Internet connection as a backup to their cellular connection.
Can SimpliSafe be used with just our Internet connection and maybe eliminate the monthly charge? Would be nice to have low battery voltage alerts, but don't see such a sensor.
I like your thinking John! Something that can actually react to a burst pipe or stuck open valve would be better than just knowing a potential diaster is in progress. Of course, you could have both options covered... the water bug seems fairly pricey and is 24 VAC. Another 12 VDC option that is cheaper appeared on the same Amazon page though:
Amazon.com : GRI 2600 12 Volt DC Water Sensor : Security Sensors : Camera &... (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001DVVJIW/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2ERNPP62TD2G7&coliid=I3424W2FARHBHY)
Same sort limitations like most alarm sensors apply as to current capabilities, so would have to be combined with higher powered 12V relays to control shut off valves. It could be part of a larger system involving an Ardunio or Raspberry Pi. I think Grant Lake was working on something like that on his coach... He had a nice little display that had a graphic of the coach layout to show location of various sensors as I recall. It would definitely be a nice project to write up and post for the forum! I will put it on my list, which just grew a little longer on this trip :facepalm:
Don
I believe the voltage information on Amazon is incorrect. It operates on 8-32 volts AC or DC.
Here's the manufactures site for this model:
WaterBug® | WB200 | Water Detection Device |Winland | Winland Electronics, Inc. (http://www.winland.com/solutions/monitoring-devices/waterbug/wb200/)
I have been bench testing the one I bought a couple of months ago with a 12 volt battery. The relay actually closes when power is removed so it "fails safe". I'm planning a different use for it which I will post when I get everything figured out.
I think it's important to note (as you have stated before in other thread posts) that with any of these sensors and alarms it's really too late if the basement floor is not properly sealed with caulking. And adding a drain is an excellent idea I plan on implementing soon.
An alarm that alerts you when there is a problem would be nice. Not sure neighbors would like one or more sirens going off if we were weren't there.
So maybe we we need to look at ways that limit potential damage. Like many the only time city water is even connected is when we are adding water to our tank. A broken water line somewhere past the pump (if the pump is off) is only going to leak a small amount of water before pressure is off and the leak is down to a dribble. A water line break before the pump could empty your fresh water tank. 100 gallons or so. Arrrgh! A broken water line anywhere while hooked to city water could be dumping 10-15 gallons a minute for the duration. Disaster!
We have been talking about adding a water pump switch near the front door or at least an indicator light that would help us remember to shut the pump off. But we would probably still forget. I have found another clever timing circut that is adjustable from seconds to many hours that can be triggered when the pump is turned on from any location. When time runs out it can turn the pump off just as if you had pressed any of the pump switches. It looks like it can be wired to be temporarily Disabled while you want to take a long shower and then Enabled when you turn the pump off after your shower. Setting the timer for three minutes or so should be enough for most tasks. If not just turn the pump back on for some additional time. I like the idea of the pump going off on its own. We do something similar to recirculate hot water so as to not run too much down the drain waiting for hot. That works very well.
5 amps
Amazon.com: Small Miniature time on off cycling delay relay 0.1 sec to 9999... (https://amazon.com/Miniature-cycling-Cycling-Industrial-control/dp/B015Z2EQCU/ref=pd_sim_60_3?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B015Z2EQCU&pd_rd_r=PP3FWH38DGHEAN3JQF8Q&pd_rd_w=8dYyY&pd_rd_wg=U5GpT&psc=1&refRID=PP3FWH38DGHEAN3JQF8Q)
Or a 10 amp one
10A Mini Timer Time Delay Relay .2 Sec to 1000 Hours. 12V. Power on or Off... (https://amazon.com/Timer-Delay-Relay-Hours-Cycling/dp/B01HNDOCKK/ref=pd_sim_60_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01HNDOCKK&pd_rd_r=SA2VM6RFVWXMN59WPNQ4&pd_rd_w=TgS5W&pd_rd_wg=mOtqj&psc=1&refRID=SA2VM6RFVWXMN59WPNQ4)
Roger, we added a water pump switch with LED, just like all the other water pump switches. It comes in handy to be sure pump is off when leaving the coach. We also added another docking light switch at the door. Both are on a new 2-switch panel.
Barry, why do you need another Docking lite switch by door ?? We have almost not used our D Lites so was wondering "do you leave yours on at night, as they are a very intrusive lite for others around the coach"
Now if asleep and hear a noise, yes, use the bedroom switch, but could not see reason for them to be on otherwise.
JohnH
John, I think it is just the water pump switch with an LED indicator. A bright red one would work for me. I like the idea of a rt side docking lite switch up there. We turn ours on occasionally if visitors are leaving at night.
I have several 1, 2 and 3 hole switch plates, same size as OEM FT plates. I had them laser cut from SS. They are not painted yet but will be when we get home with a black hi temp wrinkle paint. No FT marking though but they look great. And more than 60 12 volt switches too with 0/1 marking.
Roger, I think our water pump relay circuit cannot use the switches with built in lamps because the switch controls a ground circuit, but the bulb is connected to the positive relay output that powers the water pump. Drilled a small hole in the mounting plate and put in a small 12-volt LED.
For John's docking light question, we also hardly ever turn docking lamps on, but found when we wanted them on, we were often at the door, checking out who is at the door, or going out for a moment. It is so easy to add a switch that turns on both sides, and with the new door water pump switch, two switches on a new panel was a logical improvement.
Our coach was built with only one pair of docking lights side dash switches, and only one kitchen water pump switch. We soon added bath & bay water pump switches, and kitchen & bedroom docking light switches. Then later expanded the switch wiring to the front door.
We both like the idea of a water pump switch at the front door with a bright red light when the pump is on. Getting the wires up there seems like a challenge. That is why I was thinking of a way to automatically shut it off after a few minutes. That would be easier but both would be great! Is there a secret way to get the pump wiring to the front door? And that whole setup needs some help. If you add LED lighting they wink for just an instant when you turn the water pump on or off. There is something not quite correct with the grounding relay. It is not something you see with halogen lights, at least I never saw it. And you only see it at night, it is very brief.
I just got a new keyless entry controller with multiple functions. Lock and unlock. And then maybe an interior light, the outside door light and perhaps the rt side dock lights. So much to do, never enough time.
Roger, our 'secret' to running a water pump cable to the front door area is having a street-side kitchen with no street-side slide-out. Run 3-wire cable from kitchen water pump switch, under couch, under side dash, behind dash to breaker panel vinyl front where new switches are. With curb-side kitchen, water pump switch could be mounted next to co-pilot seat. That is why it is easy to pick up the dock light switch wires on the way.
Nerd Alert 🤓
Here is a solution for us nerdy types from SparkFun, one of my favorite places to shop and imagine "what-if?".
"The SparkFun ESP32 Thing is a comprehensive IoT development platform. The ESP32 is a WiFi-compatible microcontroller, but to that it adds support for Bluetooth low-energy (i.e BLE, BT4.0, Bluetooth Smart), and nearly 30 I/O pins. The ESP32's power and versatility will make it the foundation of your IoT and connected projects for many years to come."
Water on the floor sensed (in multiple locations) and you get a text message. Free.
What to use...
SparkFun ESP32 Thing - DEV-13907 - SparkFun Electronics (http://www.sparkfun.com/products/13907)
How to do it, it looks pretty straight forward to me, really ...
Enginursday: Creating a Smart Water Sensor with the ESP32 Thing - News -... (http://www.sparkfun.com/news/2297?hsCtaTracking=c1619558-8d91-43e0-8b4c-3a9d22b42e0f%7C07a7f713-13a2-4501-9a18-5bb50c76d43c&utm_campaign=February+10,+2017&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-9CtlqvFWzkvOLxz2MO3yIJ1Umd4DvaL16DMyuMo3CRegH2y0yWPcLpggVcubnXIRj9eNZiiddjyyQzgti3EcquL1yTHQ&_hsmi=42356668&utm_content=42357056&utm_source=hs_email)
For $20 the risk of your not completing this is low and the potential benefits are huge.