Ran across this today
Movin' Out - ​DDEC II ECMs Part 1: Why DDEC II ECM Support Is Hard To Find (http://www.movinout.com/magazine/ddec-ii-ecms-part-1-why-ddec-ii-ecm-support-is-hard-to-find)
Caterpillar, Cummins and Detroit Diesel ECM programming repair and testing (http://www.dieselcontrolservice.com/)
Good to know. Now I have to look for a used one to put below with all the other spares. I think the DDEC II is the only one to run fuel through it to cool it. Might pay to keep the tank pretty full to keep fuel temp down. My ProLink 9000 measures fuel temp. Guess there is a reason.
Thanks for the heads up.
Pierce
I noticed DDEC II exchange rebuild ECUs for about $500 here: DDEC II | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2054436.m570.l1313.TR10.TRC0.A0.H0.XDDEC+II.TRS0&_nkw=DDEC+II&_sacat=0)
Also inframe overhaul kits immediately available for the 6V-92TA from several vendors. Less than $2K for everything. Detroit Diesel 6V92 Engine Overhaul Kit 6V92 Inframe Engine Overhaul Kit | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/DETROIT-DIESEL-6V92-ENGINE-OVERHAUL-KIT-6V92-INFRAME-ENGINE-OVERHAUL-KIT-/262689659248?hash=item3d29861970:g:I78AAOSwBLlVLsve&vxp=mtr) Photo may be a bit misleading as no valves are listed in the description below and no injectors. Good price for the injectors is around $400/ea. Head work plus new valves would be an additional minimum of $1000 at a good machine shop. New valves, guides, springs, injection cups, keepers are $60/cylinder Detroit Diesel DT 92 Series Valve Overhaul Kits New 4 Valve *Single Cylinder (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Detroit-Diesel-DT-92-Series-Valve-Overhaul-Kits-New-4-Valve-Single-Cylinder-/131779399949?hash=item1eaeaa110d:g:2PsAAOSwjVVVnBkE)
I expect the "hard to find" kits are a bit of a sales ploy that shops use to gain customer trust and fear of going to another shop. Now that the DDEC II is used, there is no longer a rack to run and a decent DIY owner can do an inframe as it does not require a lot of special tools, just deck height for the cylinders. Several videos on how to do this at YouTube.
Pierce
A guy on a small boat forum I frequent just rebuilt his 12v71. He bought some aftermarket parts, and had to buy other ones because A)parts were missing and B)multiple where not machined correctly or not within tolerance.
It is getting harder and harder to find decent parts. Don't believe me, that's fine. But check around with people that do this for a living. Friend-of-a-friend is a mechanic that installed a brand new (not reman) DD Head from the dealer. Started it up and owner called him back--water in oil. Head was cracked...BRAND NEW! The mechanic got a new head under warranty for free, but detroit wouldn't help him at all on the labor (he had to eat it). Now he doesn't work on detroits.
Lots of 71s, 92s still out there in the marine world. I have no doubt the world market is flooded with "will fit" parts. But if one was to look hard enough guality DDA parts can be had. It's more a of a how much do you want to pay issue .Not much different than
The old 855" Cummings, and the 1693 (343) Cats 🐱.
Goodness, I can see Pierce rolling into Q next year pulling a trailer
with all the spare parts ! ! !
Carter-
Yes, after three coast to coast trips, we carry at least three complete piston/cylinder sets, an extra crankshaft or two and tie an extra cylinder head to the roof of the toad. Had to go up a load range on the toad's tires to handle all the extra weight!
I saw these on ebay but can't believe the ads. Think it's just an alternate truth. detroit 92 cylinder kits | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=detroit+92+parts&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xdetroit+92+cylinder+kits.TRS1&_nkw=detroit+92+cylinder+kits&_sacat=0)
Pierce
They are for 1 cyl. the Clevite one is good quality.
Craneman,
Yes, since I was a kid, Clevite was at the top of racing products as well as engine replacement parts.
I used to use MC forged pistons in a lot of Porsche pushrod engines. 10 1/2 to 1 and an easy way to get more HP. They were nice and shiny but were like snowflakes, everyone was different. You could visually see the difference in distance from the piston crown to the compression ring land. Naturally, the weight was also much different and took a lot of work to remove enough material so they all weighed the same.
Craneman? Any relation to Crane Camshafts? Crane Cams | Automotive Home Page (http://www.cranecams.com/)
Pierce
No, the name is related to my occupation, as a crane owner operator. I personally use Competition Cams for my race car, but have used a lot of Crane cams in street vehicles.
Pierce- left or right cylinder head? But wait a minute, being that it has 4 exhaust valves and no intake it would be theoretically possible, to make perfectly symmetrical and identical, but I would guess not. Enlighten me.
v- heads are symmetrical normally, they fit either side.
Take offs may have fuel ports/Jake wiring, etc blocked off or in a different location but should be the same for either side. 12V-92s will have four 6V-92 heads, the 16V-92 versions use four 8V-92 heads. They share a lot of parts with the 71 series like engine bearings.
So, if you see one advertised as "left" or "right" side, a few minutes work make them work on either side. Note, Jake fitted heads will require a taller valve cover. Unfortunately, it's not the nice cover with Detroit embossed in big letters. Jake can be added to any head.
Electronic 2 cycle Detroits (Foretravels) will not have a "rack", just electronic computer (expensive) injectors. Each 92 series will have two camshafts (one lobe for each cylinder is for the pump/injector unit and the engine can rotate in either direction with a simple gear change (and starter). This is for marine applications where two engines are fitted. Your ProLink 9000 reads out the direction of rotation.
Pierce
This thing reeks of German design, was it a spoils of war, gifted to GM? Sounds like an ideal power plant for a war machine. Dr Ferdinand maybe? IDK.
All U.S. submarines in WWII had 2 cycle diesels, either a GM like our coaches or a super innovative twin crankshaft design that Fairbanks Morse came up with. No cylinder head or valves!!! Cummins came out with their famous diesel also in the late 1930's.
Pierce
So was the Fairbanks a boxer?
So many companies that had overseas projects, with many different types of equipment
went with Detroit Diesel. A 4 cyl. head. was the same as a V-8, a 3 cyl. fit a V-6, the 6 cyl. also
worked on the V-12 and so on. Same valves, head gasket sets, etc. government used
a bunch of DD engines and Allison Trans. over the years.
Carter-
Yes, a vertical boxer. Crankshafts are about 12 degrees apart as I remember. A German licensed design. Bet they were sorry. Check this page Martin's Fairbanks Morse page (http://www.dieselduck.info/machine/01%20prime%20movers/fairbanks_morse/fairbanks_morse.htm)
No head gaskets, valves, etc plus very efficient.
John Haygarth worked on still another high performance design. This had a lot of potential.
Pierce
Pierce you are correct, anything from 900 to 3600 hp.
A tad big for our FTs though.
JohnH
I ignorantly have avoided pursuing any of the 2 stroke DD for sale as all those moving parts sounded overly complex, starting to make some sense now. Are the camshafts gear driven so they are fairly easy to yank the heads, and swap the jugs. Gasket sets still available? I will check with the retired diesel tech down the street, to see what tools he has, maybe even a prolink 9000 in his box that I can use. What do you download the prolink data to?
Thanks for all input
Gear driven. All parts available but Mercedes Reliabilt Detroit parts are premium priced. I told the story about the MBZ cylinder heads at around $800 vs Balo heads for $125. Which are you going to buy? Easy to check ebay for all parts including gaskets. Remember, there are 700,000 of these engines in use today. Can you imagine Mercedes producing an engine that they don't make parts for??? As Craneman said, Clevite are one of the best aftermarket. Perhaps even better than factory. Do the research asking big name shops, investigate and get your ducks in a row well ahead of time.
Read ProLink directly or print out info with Sharp thermo printer. Contact Jerry M for info and the manual. I have it in PDF format but best to have a hard copy in front of you when you use it.
If you pull the liners with pistons, you can just make a hardwood or metal tool to go across the cylinder a little into the intake ports on both sides and then put a socket on the crank and with a breaker bar, just force the cylinder up with the piston. With the pistons out, you will need a tool to pull the liners. They come out very easily. Watch YouTube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzPk8zYMoHc This is for a four cycle Detroit 60 series but about the same for the 92.
Pierce
Would a 94 with ddec cruise control still be a ddec ll ECM?
All Foretravels with the 6V-92TA are DDEC II and have cruise control. No fast idle possible (stock) with this cruise control.
I think Jerrry and I have the only U300 36 footers but perhaps others?
Lot of nice upgrades including a much better air cleaner intake, ICC lights, nice headliner, etc. Late 1994 might have the large engine access and front access like the 1995 GVs.
P
Yup, this 94 is side radiator, with access to the front of the motor. Has anyone been able to achieve a glass dash with easy access to parameters for the ddec ll?
Check the iOS app store: RV Dash on the App Store (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/rv-dash/id595046745?mt=8) This gives a "glass dash" for an iPad. The app is free but the hardware is a bit pricy.
Silverleaf is in use on quite a few member's U300 Detroits.
Neither one will give the info or test injectors, etc like the Pro-Link 9000. The Pro-Link is a tool while the others are great for engine displays.
Pierce
Pierce,
Your U300 36' model and mine also have the WTBI floor plan. I believe you could get this layout in a U280 and U300 for '93,'94, and '95. Hard to find and there can't be many. When I was looking I saw one '93 36' U280 WTBI and one other '94 36' U300 WTBI.
Jerry
RRadio, Scott''s 91 is a 36 also
for the motorheads, just some food for thought, the 335hp 6v92 intake flows 1200 cfm @ 2100 rpm +/- depending on load (and that is equivalent to your average home HVAC system). Losses are about the same as added boost (without the heat of compression). According to some foretravel spec's I found the factory air filter was based on a 10"w.c. clean which is at the end on economic Donaldson's filter scale which starts at 6" and ends at 12". The exhaust side flows about 2900 cfm at the same conditions as you hot rodders know the first thing you do to make a car "run" is get a big air cleaner, followed by a good exhaust. And that 5" diameter exhaust is flowing at 21,000 fpm (240 mph) at the above conditions. Pumping losses are your enemy when it comes to hp and fuel economy but you already knew that.
15 equivalent feet of straight pipe on the exhaust leads to the following losses @ 2900 cfm
5" dia. 18"w.c.
6" dia. 7"w.c.
7" dia. 3.5"w.c.
oh yeah - the straight tip exhaust outlet is an even bigger losser than whats indicated for the inlet side, slashed straight or slashed elbow is way better, as the OTR trucks use
does the 2 stroke DD rely on the exhaust for "scavenging" ?
does the 2 stroke DD rely on the exhaust for "scavenging"
The 2 stroke has a mechanical blower and a turbo that keeps the intake side under constant pressure. When the piston uncovers the intake port openings in the cylinder the pressurized air is pushed into the cylinder just as this happens the exhaust valves open and that pressurized air pushes the spent exhaust gasses out. The exhaust valves close and the piston covers the cylinder inlet port trapping fresh intake air in cylinder.As it travels upward that air is compressed and at the last second the injector sprays fuel into the cylinder and BANG piston moves down, when it uncovers the intake port openings in the cylinder the cycle resumes, hence 2 stroke.
So No to exhaust scavenging as you would have on a 4 stroke during valve overlap.
From Dieselnet.com
Since one engine cycle in a two-stroke engine is completed in one crankshaft rotation, gas exchange has to occur while the piston is near BDC. There are two important consequences of this:
Since gas exchange commences before and ends after BDC, a portion of the expansion and compression stroke is unusable.
Piston velocity is low during the entire gas exchange phase and is unable to provide a significant pumping effect on the cylinder charge. Hence, gas exchange can only occur when the intake pressure is sufficiently higher than the exhaust pressure to allow the incoming fresh charge to displace the burned gas in the time available. This process of simultaneously purging exhaust gas from the previous cycle and filling the cylinder with fresh charge for a new cycle is referred to as scavenging. To ensure adequate scavenging, two-stroke engines must be equipped with some form of intake air compression and the intake and exhaust ports and/or valves must be open simultaneously for a sufficient period of time.
Both valves in the cylinder head and ports in the cylinder liner are applied as gas exchange control elements. In the case of ports, the piston also assumes the function of a control slide.
Scavenging in two-stroke engines is performed mainly by one of three methods:
Cross-scavenging
Loop-scavenging
Uniflow-scavenging
That's why the 2-cycles have a huge air filter and a 5 inch exhaust. They use twice as much air. All of our engines have a maximum w.c. restriction. Good to buy a gauge with the numbers written on the side and be aware what your engine manufacture recommends. Unless you have an unlimited bank account, don't even think about fitting a K&N filter!!!
No, an entirely different engine from the motorcycle 2 cycles with custom expansion chamber exhaust. Andy has a short resonator on his and reports increased power. We live in the mountains with all up hill or down hill so don't want to provoke the neighbors as I keep the Jake on all the time. Stock exhaust is pretty discreet. Some Detroit owners install a switch with resistor to trick the DDEC II into thinking it has 2 psi boost from a stop sign. Much better acceleration off the line but perhaps a little black smoke too. Helps with the tall first gear ratio in the four speed Allison.
Stump has it in his post!
Pierce
Stump,
If I'm not mistaken, the 36' wide body (102") came out in '92. I haven't seen a 36' WTBI for that year. I believe the extra 6" in width allows for the side radiator for the big Detroit.
Also, with 2 pocket doors between the kitchen and bedroom there is more room for the bigger walk-thru bath which Cindy insisted upon! I was lucky to find one close to me in Alabama like Pierce's U300.
Jerry
Oh I thought yall were just asking who had 36' GV. My Bad.
Jerry is correct, we have a 92u300 40 foot and it was the one of the first 102wide . Was there 25th anniversary model.the special one had slanted windows. Our does not. ^.^d
My fault in the mixup entirely as I didn't include 102" width in the 36 foot length.
P