Ready to buy my engine insulation, found the ez cool on their site for one price and found some ez cool low E on Amazon for about
half price, wonder if it is the same or a "lesser" product? Thoughts?
Sorry, John, but I don't know. What I do know is the EZCool I bought was from Texas and NOT China. (if that is where the Amazon product is from)
Well satisfied with the quality of what I bought and installed. Also didn't think the price was too high.
Whatever you do make sure you buy the chrome tape!! And enough of it. Super holding and completes the installation. I even have a 10' piece left over and keep looking for places I can use it.
"e" refers to the emmistivety or radiant heat reflectance of the foil face of the insulation which should all be the same or extremely close. This appears to come in blanket form. Semi rigid foil faced fiberglass duct board which comes in a minimum 1" thick will give better r value, easier & ichier to install, and look very professional. Available from some HVAC contractor or a commercial insulating co. Does not appear to be any claimed r value for the ez cool, but 3/16 of foam isn't sqaut.
The E Z Cool website rates 3/16 mounted vertical as having an "R" value of 8.1, comparable to 2" of fiberrglas.
So I used two layers does that give me a rating of 16.2?
Temp rated of 450 degrees.
23db reduction in sound, so does my double thickness reduce 46db?
Don't know, but very satisfied with performance after three years. Sound is less, heat is less, weight is less, cleaning is easier, installation was easier, cost was low. All compared to the crumbling, heavy, powdering, moisture holding, deteriorated black insulation that was left after 23 years. Try hosing that down to get it clean! And guess what? I have been able to see thru my radiator ever since I cleaned it right after replacing the insulation. No more black, greasy crumbs plugging up the radiator and causing engine temps to skyrocket!
For some reason I did not care for a headful of black "dandruff" on my white hair every time I accidently bumped the ceiling in the engine compartment.
Whatever you put in make dang sure it is fireproof. I had an engine fire from Soundown (the genuine marine stuff, lead sheet encapsulated by foam with alum outside) contacting the 1000 degree turbo. This was in a boat, what a thrilling event. Focused my attention most acutely. I have seen some people using mylar covered bubble wrap. No way no how.
Gotta ask, Chuck. Was the insulation installed relying on spray adhesive? I am anally paranoid about making sure something is REALLY fastened. Too many cases of things coming loose and falling off.
When I built my first enclosed snowmobile trailer (never saw one before as snowmobiling was in its infancy) out of plywood I think I used about 10# of nails and screws. It was a real tough job dismantling it when we were done snowmobiling. Found out the easiest was just to cut it off with a circular saw.
The best 3/16 foam insulation can be is R value of 0.93 to 1.31 depending on foam and density. The only material that can attain an R value of 8.1 with a 3/16 thickness would be Aerogel.
Aerogel aka frozen smoke is a "solid" that is actually lighter than air, but you unless you have some friends at NASA you're not gonna get any of this stuff.
It is not just r value exaggerated. Foretravel used the thick black foam for sound attenuation using two types of material. One reflecting and one absorbing. 3/16 inch foam would do very little except reduce the vibration of the metal enclosure.
True sound attenuation is indeed based on "heavy & limp" materials
Sorry Phred, it is not just "foam" according to Harbour Co. It is a lead foam and we all know that lead in and of itself is a deadening agent used in acoustical situations such as Mercury Marine's Greenlee Bar and Acme Gridley bar machine room in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin to reduce the noise levels. Oops, sorry, that was me that did that.
Thicker sheet metal also reduced noise transmission in machine tools. Oops, was that me too?
Even a carpet pad in the back of a 1957 VW Beatle will reduce the engine noise level significantly. Oops, I did that too.
I utilized even heavy lead impregnated plastic hung from the ceiling girders and reduced noise levels.
I will no longer defend Harbour EZ Cool. It seems it is getting attacked by any and everyone who has not read their specifications/claims.
All I know is that it works for us and let that stand by itself.
I did the Foretravel tour in Oct. but did not pay attention to their current engine insulation but I don't think they are using the same thing.One fact on the black stuff on these old coaches is it's 20 to 30 year old tech.
Good info here:
Engine Insulation (http://beamalarm.com/Documents/engine_insulation.html)
Looked at 2 year old Newell a while ago, still had thick [maybe 1 1/2 inch?] blankets in engine room.
Good point but this was mechanically fastened using the Soundown pin and disc system. It didn't fall down, the fault was my own in not providing sufficient clearance. I stated, incorrectly, in my post that turbo had contacted the sound control mt., not so, it was just in too close proximity. The distance was not much less than the turbo in my U295 from underside of bed but big difference is the large amount of airflow thru coach vs a boat engine room. This was a turbo on a high hp 671, not watercooled turbo as many boats are. Once that stuff ignited it really took off.
In the event I ever get around to redoing the engine compartment lining it will be duct board, most likely applied over the original sound deadening. I like quiet, and even though the old stuff is messy as the original plastic outer liner is gone, it's excellent sound barrier and quite expensive material.
My old stuff was heavy and seemed to hold moisture and unless you come up with an air tight seal between the old and the new
the old will still crumble and work its way on your engine, maybe not as bad but I think it would sprinkle down.
Also when I get around to doing the genset I will go for more sound deadening.
When the time comes(this year), I will have removable insulation blankets made for heat and a product from "Sonic Barrier" (Parts Express) will be installed on inside wall of engine compartment for sound deadening. Have used these products in combination before and after many years, still look new.
John
Also, Chuck, if the turbo on the underside of your bed is so close to the insulation now, I would really be concerned about something on top of the old insulation, thereby getting even closer to the turbo.
Remember to seek out 2017 technology for the latest in insulation/soundproofing. Beats the daylights out of the 1989 technology that was present in my coach.
I don't know what the construction of newer Foretravels is like, but here is what we have.
The vertical part of the bed platform is 5/8 or 3/4 plywood with a formica covering on the engine side--all around and also on the non-liftable part of the engine compartment.
The passenger side only has the pleated skirting that snaps onto the bed platform top. The pleated skirting does go all around the vertical plywood sheets. ( I fastened a shock cord, with eyelets, under the skirt to hold the extra footwear we seem to have a lot of.
The foot of the bed has a two cubby compartment about 12" deep (front to back) and all the way across the foot of the bed, so a dead air space sandwiched between two sheets of plywood. Passenger side is electrical and driver's side is storage for engine belts, oil filters, etc.
The vertical part of the bed platform (front to back) on the driver's side is only about one foot from front to rear. The access "tunnel" on the driver's side--outside louvered door--takes up the rest of the vertical side.
The plywood sheet on top of the platform and engine below is a 5/8 or 3/4 sheet with an angle iron weldment reinforcement underneath and two layers of EZ Cool. Our mattress--deluxe queen pillow top-- is probably 10"-12" thick plus bedding so it does some sound deadening. Carpet goes from the mattress edge on the driver's side to the wall.
I put a 1/2" wide x 1/2" high tape backed foam insulation on the top lip created by the vertical plywood. It crushes down almost flat and acts more as a seal. It does keep out fumes and heat and probably a small amount of noise, but better than nothing.
I have used this product in industry and it performs very well but I don't know about this application. Be forewarned, it is expensive. Kaowool High-Temperature Boards (2600ºF - 3100ºF Insulation Boards) On... (http://supplies.foundryservice.com/viewitems/board-products/emperature-boards-2600-f-3100-f-insulation-boards-?)
Good point. For sound attenuation I think the original stuff is still basically state of art, an inert material (lead or soft vinyl) bonded to two densities of foam. Come to think of it, this is pretty much the same stuff that ignited in my boat! But yes, there are lots of great new materials out there.
Point taken regarding the mattress on top. I doubt any sound control mtl is really needed on underside of lid.
A turbo blanket would make a whole lot of sense, performance increase and safety wise.
What I would do (and remember I am paranoid about things) If the turbo is so close to the underside of the platform is put a piece of sheet metal--on spacers-- so there is a heat reflector between the turbo and any material on the bottom of the bed platform. Just enough to run interference between heat and anything even remotely combustible.
The deflector is a good idea. I placed one between new piping for resonator and some lines that seemed kind of close. The fire in boat came after an extended full output run when we made the turn and slowed for harbor entrance. Hot turbo, less airflow thru engine room, heat soak, poof.
just an fyi only - Here is a somewhat dated article that does not recommend a specific product, unless you have a subscription, that offers insight into the science so to speak quieting down an engine room. http://www.practical-sailor.com/blog/-10720-1.html It helped me, the ultimate novice, better understand the concepts.
-Nick
Talked to EZcool ,they told me the ez cool on Amazon is the same as the ez cool they sell.Also looked at some products from
Noico,they sell sound deadening sheets.
Mass Loaded Vinyl is great for sound proofing. You would have to check with the manufacturer about the heat aspect.
mass loaded vinyl soundproofing at DuckDuckGo (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=mass+loaded+vinyl+soundproofing&bext=wfa&atb=v26&ia=web)