Foretravel Motorhome Forums => Foretravel Discussions => Topic started by: Rzrbrn on February 11, 2017, 02:40:18 pm
Title: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Rzrbrn on February 11, 2017, 02:40:18 pm
Seriously considering driving from Nashville, TN to St. Could, FL to see Charlie Anderson's 1993 GV, as posted in the Classified section. Please, I am not asking anyone to go check it out, just asking if anyone has already done so or knows the coach.
I have talked to Mr. Anderson, he will be giving me the Model # of the coach, which may help identify the particulars, but until then this is what I know:
1993 GV 8.3 CUMMINS 36 ft, side bath with passenger side round table G9643733651310O22CE13 112K miles
Upgrades-maintenance Residencial frige, 2 house batteries New tires in october New brakes all around Fluide, belts, hoses
Charlie stated it does not have a U designation, which I interpret to mean that it is not a unihome. Does this mean it has a chassis and not the monocoque (I got this notion from Beamalarm)?
It has a residential (that is non LP) refrigerator. My wife is concerned because we have been in campsites where generators have restricted hours. I am hoping that if you keep the door closed it will stay cold enough to keep food from spoiling between generator runs, but in SoCal in the summer that may not be enough. How important is it to have a 3 way refig? Can a refrigerator be run via the inverter while traveling? Or does the coach have to be stopped and the generator run every few hours?
Henry htrzrbrn106@gmail.com Thank you
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: kb0zke on February 11, 2017, 03:14:05 pm
Depending on the batteries and inverter, you should be able to run the refrigerator for a day or so without any trouble. How much boondocking are you going to do? If a lot then you need an rv refrigerator. If only once in a while you will be fine with the residential.
FWIW, we have a residential refrigerator in our coach. Much of the time I run the generator while driving, which powers the refrigerator AND the a/c units. When weather permits I simply use the inverter and save the diesel. I'd have no problem spending a night in Wal-Mart and using only the inverter if I had to.
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Pamela & Mike on February 11, 2017, 03:26:06 pm
Charlie stated it does not have a U designation, which I interpret to mean that it is not a unihome. How important is it to have a 3 way refig? Can a refrigerator be run via the inverter while traveling?
According to this # it has an Oshkosh chassis. That is that is what the 022C means thus you don't have the U designation. The E13 is engine/trans info. IIRC a lot of those brain cell have vanished.
If you dry camp it is nice but with todays solar and battery systems a residential fridge will dry camp just fine under most conditions. There are still times that a 3 way will be better like during extended days of clouds or if you have a shady spot and aren't producing full solar,
Should be able to if the alternator is up to snuff and it is fed through the inverter circuit.
Pamela & Mike
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Mike Leary (RIP) on February 11, 2017, 03:39:46 pm
A pic or two would be handy. ^.^d
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Rzrbrn on February 11, 2017, 04:28:18 pm
I asked for pics from the owner, but his computer skills are not up to the task.
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: wolfe10 on February 11, 2017, 04:35:56 pm
Don't see specs on the 1993 ORED, but here is info on the 1992 ORED:
Is there any way to print the spec sheet from the Beamalarm page?
If you don't have a printer, go to the library and they will print it for you for a very nominal fee.
P
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: red tractor on February 11, 2017, 07:24:28 pm
I just sent you a pm
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Rzrbrn on February 11, 2017, 08:09:43 pm
Pierce,
I have a printer. I hit PrtSc, and nothing happens. I right click and nothing happens. I go to the upper right "Customize and control" go to print and....nothing.
Henry
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: nitehawk on February 11, 2017, 09:03:45 pm
Try Control P
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Rzrbrn on February 11, 2017, 10:10:08 pm
Control P pulls up the print screen but it is blank. That is in very small letters at the top:
2/11/2017 1992 Foretravel Ored Specifications
but the rest of the page is completely blank
The beamalarm site is very frustrating when it comes to printing anything contained therein.
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Caflashbob on February 11, 2017, 10:32:40 pm
Oshkosh 815 spring chassis. Hydraulic disk brakes. As far as I remember
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: John Haygarth on February 11, 2017, 10:34:13 pm
yes you are right as this was the first FT we had. Then I wanted air brakes and suspension etc- you know what I mean!!!
JohnH
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: JohnFitz on February 11, 2017, 10:43:43 pm
You can use the Snipping Tool to window and capture anything visible on the screen. You can't directly print from the tool but you can past it into any number of programs like PowerPoint or word and then print from that application. Often I have to snip several times to capture all of the page if the page cannot be viewed in one screen and requires scrolling down. Look for it the Windows Start menu or you can directly type "Snipping Tool" in the search field.
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Old phart phred on February 12, 2017, 12:15:29 am
Oshkosh 815 spring chassis. Hydraulic disk brakes. As far as I remember
Confused no offense, are some 815 air spring and others steel spring
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: John Haygarth on February 12, 2017, 12:19:32 am
My 93 GV oshkosh was steel spring ( as on trucks) I think all 022ored are that way but not sure. JohnH
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Rzrbrn on February 12, 2017, 04:58:31 am
Mr. Anderson stated this unit has steel springs.
I finally figured out how to print pages from Beamalarm. The Snip tool, which took me about 1/2 hour to find in Windows 10, only allows what is on the screen to be copied. All these items required the screen to scroll down, so the snip tool would not capture the whole page. I also printed the tech support section which is 11 pages long. It was 3:00am when I figured it out. There is no way in ..... I will be able to remember how I did it when I wake up.
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Rzrbrn on February 12, 2017, 05:23:14 am
Don't forget I am a neophyte, I have almost no depth of knowledge regarding this subject.
A couple of things are appealing regarding this unit:
1. The 8.3 Cummins
2. The Oshkosh chassis. After reading about the bulkhead separation issue, it worried me so I started looking at other brands of Motorhomes. But since I really like the Foretravel sloped front units, I realized the non unihome coaches might be the way to go.
Not so appealing is lack of air suspension. We road in a Foretravel which had it last week. My wife wants it. So I goggled it and it may be that air suspension can be put on as an aftermarket upgrade. I have not put much time into searching, and nothing has come up yet specifically for the Oshkosh VC-22-RD chassis, but maybe an RV service center can identify a specific product. At least that is how I am selling this coach to my wife.
Also not sure about the residential refrigerator. We have camped in campsites with restrictions on running a generator, and in primitive campsites w/o electricity. It would be nice to have it running on LP during those times. I suppose running the generator now and again might suffice. I came across a device that monitors temperature and starts and stops the generator as needed, so maybe that would work at least during the daytime. Hopefully the batteries would take it through a hot night.
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: fouroureye on February 12, 2017, 08:16:53 am
My 88 also had air bags in line to the frame 2 for each wheel...
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 12, 2017, 09:46:08 am
Also not sure about the residential refrigerator. We have camped in campsites with restrictions on running a generator, and in primitive campsites w/o electricity. It would be nice to have it running on LP during those times. I suppose running the generator now and again might suffice. I came across a device that monitors temperature and starts and stops the generator as needed, so maybe that would work at least during the daytime. Hopefully the batteries would take it through a hot night.
A successful residential fridge installation usually requires modification to the coach electric system. While you can (sometimes) get along on the original components, some upgrades will make life easier, on you and on the fridge. To work well, the fridge will require clean, continuous power. This usually involves installing a more modern inverter, and (in some cases) additional battery capacity.
Most owners choose to upgrade their inverter to "full sine wave" when installing a residential fridge. You can do this by either replacing the old original "modified sine wave" inverter, OR by installing a new separate dedicated sine wave inverter that only powers the fridge. Then you can shut off the "big" inverter at night or when not needed. The small inverter will use less power in stand-by, so less drain on batteries.
You mentioned the coach in question has 2 house batteries. You will need to check on what type they are, and how big. We have a residential fridge, and 2 AGM8D house batteries (245 A.H @ 20Hr in each battery). I would consider this the minimum size house battery bank to support a residential fridge. When dry camping, if we go to bed with 80% remaining battery capacity (not unusual), then we are down to 55% by the time we wake up next morning. You don't want to pull your batteries down below 50%, so at this point we need to think about adding charge back into the batteries. That can be done by running a generator, plugging in to shore power, or using solar panels. One way or the other, operating a residential fridge on battery power will require using a charging source every day, rain or shine, hot or cold weather. Something to consider...
Having "auto start" for your generator is handy when you are away from the coach for extended periods. When you are at the coach, it is better for YOU to monitor your battery condition, and proactively decide when and how long to run generator. Which brings up another point: running your coach on battery power requires some means of accurately monitoring battery performance. Search this Forum for numerous posts on this subject - search for "Trimetric" to get started.
Good luck with your quest for the perfect coach for you!
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Rzrbrn on February 12, 2017, 10:11:23 am
Thank you Chuck & Jeanie. I will ask about the batteries.
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Chuck & Jeannie on February 12, 2017, 10:52:30 am
2. The Oshkosh chassis. After reading about the bulkhead separation issue, it worried me so I started looking at other brands of Motorhomes. But since I really like the Foretravel sloped front units, I realized the non unihome coaches might be the way to go.
Henry,
If you eliminate all Unihome GV models simply because you are worried about the "bulkhead issue", you are doing yourself a great disservice. Foretravel built a lot of Unihome GVs, and most of them are still in good shape. The later Grand Villa models included many of the finest Foretravel engineering features, like the monocoque frame, full automatic air suspension/leveling, higher HP engines, and the Allison 6-speed transmission with (if you get really lucky) a retarder.
The bulkheads on any monocoque frame coach should be inspected before purchase, along with everything else. There are lots of excellent coaches out there, and a few that might need some remediation. You can pay more for a good one, or pay less for a "project". The choice is up to you. Don't fear the "bulkhead issue", or shy away from a whole category of coaches because of it. The issue is well known, it is repairable if necessary, and as a informed potential buyer you can easily choose whether or not you wish to deal with it.
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Don & Tys on February 12, 2017, 11:42:45 am
Great summary Chuck! Speaking as one who has experienced the nadir of bulkhead issues (at least of those who have done the repairs themselves) and survived to tell about it, there are advantages to the monocoque/8 outboard airspring design of the U280 and up models that make it a very desirable choice for us. Including high carrying capacity (nearly 6,000lbs. on our 36', no slide model), quality and stability of ride, air disc brakes, air leveling, nearly 30" of passthrough clearance in the basement storage areas, etc. Having done the repairs myself, I know what is down there and I have complete confidence that it will be good for the long haul. That said, if I had been more patient and knowledgeable about this issue when I was looking for a Foretravel, I would have been able to spend more time in the coach and less time underneath it in the beginning :o Don
If you eliminate all Unihome GV models simply because you are worried about the "bulkhead issue", then you doing yourself a great disservice. Foretravel built a lot of Unihome GVs, and most of them are still in good shape. The later Grand Villa models included many of the finest Foretravel engineering features, like the monocoque frame, full automatic air suspension/leveling, higher HP engines, and the Allison 6-speed transmission with (if you get really lucky) a retarder.
The bulkheads on any monocoque frame coach should be inspected before purchase, along with everything else. There are lots of excellent coaches out there, and a few that might need some remediation. You can pay more for a good one, or pay less for a "project". The choice is up to you. Don't fear the "bulkhead issue", or shy away from a whole category of coaches because of it. The issue is well known, it is repairable if necessary, and as a informed potential buyer you can easily choose whether or not you wish to deal with it.
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Caflashbob on February 12, 2017, 12:15:19 pm
The "U" models have double the number of airbags for a smoother ride and almost no body lean in winds or turns. They also have air disk brakes fit. Simply the best.
The semi monocoque(CM Fore always mentioned the semi) construction allows unobstructed storage underneath and allows cross mounting of the tanks. Versus fore and aft.
Fuel sloshing is noticeable in fore and aft tanks.
Cross mounting the tanks allows them to be enclosed and heated easier. Plus the area under the floor contains the wiring and plumbing runs and is accessible for long term replacement.
Rail chassis were made to be shipped to the manufacturer and had to drive as built.
Unibody had to be built on site. Required the cash flow to buy all the parts you need versus get credit from the chassis builder.
"U" have larger tanks also.
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Tim Fiedler on February 12, 2017, 02:07:31 pm
Having had Oshkosh in first FT, and then two Foretravel chassis, please drive the Foretravel chassis before you make a firm decision. It would appear the MOT $3-5k repair is a reasonable compared to replacing the entire structure. The ones I examined at Bernd's shop had 80+% good metal, but the entire basement was replaced. Bulkhead damage is something that can be determined during pre buy, and budgeted for if found. Remember, a year 2000 U-320 cost $750k+ (in 2000 $, not 2017 $). It was made with the finest materials and components available, to last a very long time. But maintenance in something this old and complex is not trivial. Buy what you can afford to pay cash for and still have 20% of purchase price in reserve for maintenance. If that equation is too scary, consider other options such as a fifth wheel. You probably won't spend the 20%, but it will be realistic and give you piece of mind. If you can fix most anything, cut that to 15%. Tires, batteries and LP refrigerators are the likely big number items. Bulkheads have already been discussed. Engines and transmission issues are VERY rare (at least catastrophic ones), but can hurt badly if you are among the unlucky. Don't be scared off, but be realistic. You will love your FT, and it will cost less overall than buying newer, paying interest and suffering precipitous depreciation
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Mike Leary (RIP) on February 12, 2017, 02:33:58 pm
I used to use the "10% rule", but with labor and parts these days, Tim is spot on with 20% in the pocket! ^.^d
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Rzrbrn on February 12, 2017, 08:56:34 pm
Thank you for the discussion regarding bulkhead concerns. We have ridden in a FGV with air suspension, and it is what got my wife to agree to buy one. I explained that Mr. Anderson's coach will not ride the same because it is spring and frame, and she is miffed at me.
I will re look at what is currently on the market and see what is out there, although we expect to leave for Florida within a few days to go see Mr. Anderson's coach.
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Rzrbrn on February 12, 2017, 09:10:43 pm
I am starting to feel like a dog chasing its tail. The only coach currently on the market that has an 8 bag air suspension, and air brakes has a Cat 3208 engine with an Allison 4 speed transmission, no retarder, at MOT:
1990 Foretravel Grand Villa 36 Priced at $ 27500 (http://motorhomesoftexas.com/coachrv/foretravel/1990--grand_villa--36--C1908)
vs.
Mr. Anderson's Coach No pics Oshkosh 8.3 Cummins with retarder 36' new tires, new brakes, all new hoses and belts he says it is in cherry condition.
MOT is in Texas, Mr. A's coach in FL.
I was all set to buy the FL coach if it is as nice as the owner states. After the above discussions, I am hesitating.
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Rzrbrn on February 12, 2017, 09:11:53 pm
Disregarding price, which is probably the best one to buy?
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Don & Tys on February 12, 2017, 09:26:57 pm
Probably not up for serious consideration, but here is one of the rare later Grand Villas, a GV320. Just in case you didn't know that they made the GV style after 1995... I think they are lovely ^.^d Foretravel Motorcoach - 2002 Foretravel 4020 G320 (http://foretravel.com/coach-view.php?id=724) Don
I am starting to feel like a dog chasing its tail. The only coach currently on the market that has an 8 bag air suspension, and air brakes has a Cat 3208 engine with an Allison 4 speed transmission, no retarder, at MOT:
1990 Foretravel Grand Villa 36 Priced at $ 27500 (http://motorhomesoftexas.com/coachrv/foretravel/1990--grand_villa--36--C1908)
vs.
Mr. Anderson's Coach No pics Oshkosh 8.3 Cummins with retarder 36' new tires, new brakes, all new hoses and belts he says it is in cherry condition.
MOT is in Texas, Mr. A's coach in FL.
I was all ste to buy the FL coach if it is as nice as the owner states. After the above discussions, I am hesitating.
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: FourTravelers on February 12, 2017, 09:32:01 pm
Unless you are in a big hurry to buy.....?? I would seriously consider the Unihome, of course I am biased, but the quiet and soft ride of the air suspension is definitely worth serious consideration. Complexity and cost most likely keep some from going with the HWH but it sure makes for a better drive. We did 9,000 miles in 40 days and I wouldnt want to do that on a leaf sprung suspension. Just my 2 cents worth.
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Michelle on February 12, 2017, 09:44:45 pm
Remember, a year 2000 U-320 cost $750k+ (in 2000 $, not 2017 $).
Tim,
With all due respect, I think your numbers are a bit off. I know a 2003 U320 was more like $475-500K new, depending on floorplan, maybe $530K optioned out and custom floorplan. So no way a 2000 was 50% higher than that ;)
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: stump on February 12, 2017, 10:17:55 pm
Why are you dead set on 36'?
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Jeff & Sandy on February 12, 2017, 10:19:41 pm
We just drove 750 miles in a couple of days on our airbags, nothing like it. We arrived relaxed and ready to relax some more. We have a '93 U300 GV with a DD.
Antidotally, it's our first long trip on new rubber all the way around and that made a huge difference in handling.
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: John Haygarth on February 12, 2017, 10:50:30 pm
Tim, I did not know that your State had ok'd the growing of the green stuff like Colorado etc!!! I have A 2000 and yes it is a 295 but only cost 350k new. gee I did not know that they cost that much tricked out. Maybe I will ask 175k for it? what a deal ^.^d JohnH
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Texas Guy on February 12, 2017, 10:56:40 pm
Have you looked at the two 36' coaches
posted today on the classified section?
Carter-
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: John Haygarth on February 12, 2017, 11:09:14 pm
Carter, have now and now I know why I would want so much more for our coach. Different leagues totally. By the way my 175k was in regards to Tims original cost of the coach posted NOT what it really cost. My asking price (if for sale) is somewhat lower!! I know that everyone thinks that their coach is better than all others but I do know this one IS. Not one thing is wrong with it and does not need detailing. That is done every day by owners. This is not an MOT special 8) johnH
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Caflashbob on February 13, 2017, 02:32:28 am
Hydraulic disk brakes in the Rockies can do two extreme stops in a row. Third one the fluid will or will have boiled and the brakes fade.
Air brakes have considerably more capacity. Air disk brakes are race grade
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Rzrbrn on February 13, 2017, 05:21:31 am
Stump 36' because we spend much of our time poking around areas with narrow secondary and gravel roads with small or no campgrounds that were very difficult to maneuver our small 17' travel trailer pulled by my full size Pickup. My wife really likes the SBI type of coach (stand alone table), so that keeps the coach in the 36' size and larger. I want something I can easily maneuver in those tight spaces (usually with trees and rocks in the wrong places) and the 40' units seem to me to be just too large. I have never owned a motorcoach or large trailer.
CaFlashbob Fuel sloshing and overheating hydraulics by using 3x or more when going downhill is the type of information that I find persuasive.
Carter I will check out the new posts in the classified section after this post.
I was hoping to have a coach ready to go by March or April, but since I have a TT for this camping season, I don't really need to buy a coach now. (At least in the near term, my wife will not let me sell the Casita and pickup because she is uncertain about how much we will like using a motorhome)
Henry htrzrbrn106@gmail.com
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Chuck Pearson on February 13, 2017, 08:17:26 am
Reading your description of use, makes me wonder if maybe the oshkosh chassis might be better offroad. I've found the airbag suspension to be pretty tender off pavement, even things like a washboard surface have to be carefully navigated.
The side mounted radiator coaches blow a huge amount of dust up from below, then suck it into the rear mounted air intake. Even at creeping speed.
Coming from a Casita an 8' wide U225 would be palatial. Light weight, inexpensive to buy, probably the most popular diesel engine around, the Cummins 6b 12 valve. Millions of em around, cheap to repair in the unlikely event you have to. Plenty of tweaks for more power possible. I've seen some of these coaches going in the $teens.
I don't know that the torsilastic is better on unpaved roads, but suspect it is. Maybe others can comment. Just a thought. Oh yeah, the 8' width is much easier to navigate around obstacles than the 8'6. Same great hardwood interior as all the others.
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Kent Speers on February 13, 2017, 09:13:38 am
Reading your description of use, makes me wonder if maybe the oshkosh chassis might be better offroad. I've found the airbag suspension to be pretty tender off pavement, even things like a washboard surface have to be carefully navigated.
The side mounted radiator coaches blow a huge amount of dust up from below, then suck it into the rear mounted air intake. Even at creeping speed.
Coming from a Casita an 8' wide U225 would be palatial. Light weight, inexpensive to buy, probably the most popular diesel engine around, the Cummins 6b 12 valve. Millions of em around, cheap to repair in the unlikely event you have to. Plenty of tweaks for more power possible. I've seen some of these coaches going in the $teens.
I don't know that the torsilastic is better on unpaved roads, but suspect it is. Maybe others can comment. Just a thought. Oh yeah, the 8' width is much easier to navigate around obstacles than the 8'6. Same great hardwood interior as all the others.
We have had both a 93, U225 and our current 93, U300. I have found no difference in the off road or rough road access. The rear radiator on the U225 was a real pain for maintenance such as belts, water pump and cleaning between the CAC and Radiator. I find no problem with the 8.5 foot width but I would recommend a 36' rather than a 40' for expanded camp site access.
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: wolfe10 on February 13, 2017, 09:45:32 am
Hydraulic disk brakes in the Rockies can do two extreme stops in a row. Third one the fluid will or will have boiled and the brakes fade.
Careful with this statement. Certainly true if the brake fluid is not change every couple of years, but NOT true unless the brake fluid is hydrated/has absorbed moisture. Good brake fluid (non-hydrated) boils about 500 degrees F. Hydrated brake fluid boils at 286 degrees F. BIG DIFFERENCE. If you get temperatures above 450 degrees F in a caliper, you have other MAJOR problems. With reasonable maintenance, either system is quite good.
Not suggesting that hydraulics are better (or worse)-- either can be done very well or very poorly.
Last I checked, a Boeing 747 at over a million pounds has HYDRAULIC BRAKES.
So why do most coaches have air brakes (most drum, a few disk)? Simple, the axles and suspension components are pretty much "off the rack" medium and HD truck parts. So, why do trucks have air brakes? Again, simple-- it is a lot easier and quicker to hook up the air lines between tractor and trailer than to connect and then bleed hydraulic lines.
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Tim Fiedler on February 13, 2017, 10:46:22 am
Not sure, but I think you said that your wife want sure if you would like a class "A" in lieu of your current set up. I suspect that wont be a problem, but if that is a concern, suggest you rent a 34' or greater class "A" (doesn't matter if diesel or whatever) with a slide or two for a long weekend. I may have it wrong, but renting something will give you great insight into the kinds of things you want or don't want in your coach. Then take your time and buy the best coach you can find in the next 6-12 months, the tirght one will come along. If your travels allow, plan on a 4-5 day stop in Nacogdoches TX to visit the various vendors there that specialize in selling and servicing these great coaches. Good luck! Lots of wisdom here.
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: kb0zke on February 13, 2017, 11:01:16 am
As usual, Tim has great advice. If renting is difficult, try going to as many RV shows and dealerships as you can. Go into everything there, no matter the age or price, and imagine yourself living with that floor plan. It won't take long until you will have a pretty good idea of what works for you and what doesn't.
While you are doing that you can hang out here and ask questions. It might even be that a Foretravel owner is near you and would give you a personal tour.
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Chuck Pearson on February 13, 2017, 11:24:27 am
Tim is giving great advice. Better to know for sure because it's always easier to buy than sell.
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: John44 on February 13, 2017, 11:54:48 am
Some nice ones on Ebay now,2 from a business in Missouri worth a look, maybe a member near to look at.
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Rzrbrn on February 13, 2017, 12:10:43 pm
John44 Yes, I have those on my watch list at ebay. But they are 40' and we want a 36'. Thank you.
We rented a class C in the past and enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Tim Fiedler on February 13, 2017, 12:26:35 pm
FWIW, the reason I quoted 20% of purchase price - if you buy a coach for $30K, 20% of that is $6K, pretty easy to see how that amount might come up in the course of the first year if tires, or batteries, or refrigerator, or??? needed some attention
Tim
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Mike Leary (RIP) on February 13, 2017, 01:02:31 pm
if you buy a coach for $30K, 20% of that is $6K, pretty easy to see how that amount might come up in the course of the first year if tires, or batteries, or refrigerator, or??? needed some attention
And that's why there are no good deals, mostly. We paid $10CBs more than what the market prices were because both the POs had followed the "60/80" rule: Every 60/80K something is going to fail and they followed the rule. So when we looked at this coach, the paperwork showed me we had a almost fresh coach. Yes, there are going to be "this and that" issues, that's normal, especially for full-timers, but, at least, I'm not concerned about big CB issues! ^.^d
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Caflashbob on February 13, 2017, 01:10:50 pm
The aircraft use was heavily promoted by my old buddy Matt Perlot of Safari coaches for many years.
Aircraft use vegetable based Skydrol hydraulic fluid and many times the pressure and only make one stop before cooling.
I have faded out countless brand new hydraulic disk brake coaches from Foretravel, Safari and Alpine.
In the Rockies I had to mentally alter my driving style to compensate for the limitations.
Scary at times if you are a higher speed driver.
Slow down before the start of a down grade, lower the speeds in the mountains a lot.
If you are a cautious slower driver the differences are not as noticeable but still there.
I warned every 22c chassis owner I sold about the coaches ability to do two panic stops but not three.
Alpine finally offered a air brake $10k option on their nominally hydraulic braked coaches.
I think the wedge brakes on the u225/u240 had 15x4 and 15x7 shoes front and rear and worked ok. same as the OREDS had.
I have faded those out in the OREDS in extreme tests where smoke would come out of the rear wheels in a puff.
OREDS had the front brakes non oped until you applied 60 psi air pressure with a lq4 valve under the dash.
Otherwise the wedge brakes would shudder badly in reverse.
Foretravel used wedge brakes because of the full backing plate in the design. That way rocks thrown up by the front tires on dirt roads did not get into the rear shoes. Foretravel wanted the off road ability.
All the other manufacturers used std S cam brakes with open backing plates for better cooling.
Logging truckers used to crystallize the rear drums from hard hot use in the mountains and then ran the drums into ice cold streams with the open shoes.
All the brakes were compromises until the Rockwell air disks were fit.
Seen trucks with glowing disk rotors long ago down the grade into Denver before the unihomes were made and told CM about it and was laughed at as trucks did not use disks. Turns out they were being tested...
Adding the retarder added an additional braking safety item.
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Mike Leary (RIP) on February 13, 2017, 01:29:55 pm
Adding the retarder added an additional braking safety item.
Yup, all true. Even with our previous disk brake ASs, there were a couple of times on downgrades where the DW said, "what's that smell?" I would not have one of our "heavyweights" without the six speed and retarder, or, at least, a retro jake/pac brake! ^.^d
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Texas Guy on February 13, 2017, 04:33:24 pm
Your wife's concern on a MH over the Casita will go away in a few miles. The
first she wants to get a drink for both of you or she needs to go to the potty.
or it is time to fix lunch and she does not have to wait for you to find a place
to pull over and park, she will know how to appreciate a MH. The ability to
just get up, walk around, go take a nap or any of the many things you can do
in a MH that you can't in a TT sure makes the old way of travel look lame.
Carter-
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Mike Leary (RIP) on February 13, 2017, 05:04:58 pm
Your wife's concern on a MH: many things you can do in a MH that you can't in a TT sure makes the old way of travel look lame.
I had it happen the other way around: we had two trailers (AS), liked them, but backing into sites, unloading, leveling, etc. was a big pain. I accepted it, but one day, the DW said, "why don't we just buy a motor home." It was like the heavenly gates opened: three coaches later, I love my DW for many things, but that suggestion changed our lives! ^.^d
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Rzrbrn on February 13, 2017, 07:34:32 pm
Thank you all for your insights. We have cancelled out trip to FL and will continue to search.
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: wolfe10 on February 13, 2017, 07:35:21 pm
If you are a cautious slower driver the differences are not as noticeable but still there.
I warned every 22c chassis owner I sold about the coaches ability to do two panic stops but not three.
Bob,
If you are a very aggressive, verrrry fast RV driver, you are probably correct.
But, in over a quarter of a million DP miles, I have had a total of ONE panic stop (came over an Interstate overpass and traffic was dead stopped-- big wreck).
Two panic stops in a row-- three in a row means I have done something VERY, VERY, VERY WRONG.
For the rest of us, we use our retarder, exhaust brake, or engine compression brake to keep thing under control.
And, yes I have driven some really OUTRAGEOUS mountain roads in Mexico, and on this trip out west, did the 5 mile, 8% downgrade on the Trans-mountain bypass around El Paso (not my choice, but I-10 closed due to wreck). Service brakes applied less than 25 SECONDS total.
Yes, our driving styles are different.
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: jcus on February 13, 2017, 08:01:45 pm
If you are a very aggressive, verrrry fast RV driver, you are probably correct.
But, in over a quarter of a million DP miles, I have had a total of ONE panic stop (came over an Interstate overpass and traffic was dead stopped-- big wreck).
Two panic stops in a row-- three in a row means I have done something VERY, VERY, VERY WRONG.
For the rest of us, we use our retarder, exhaust brake, or engine compression brake to keep thing under control.
And, yes I have driven some really OUTRAGEOUS mountain roads in Mexico, and on this trip out west, did the 5 mile, 8% downgrade on the Trans-mountain bypass around El Paso (not my choice, but I-10 closed due to wreck). Service brakes applied less than 25 SECONDS total.
Yes, our driving styles are different.
Have to agree with you Brett, have always had Porches and Bmws as daily drivers, so like driving fast. But in a 15 or 20 ton motorhome, I realize it's, and my limitations, and in 40 years driving motorhomes, have never locked up the brakes. Have slowed down real fast a couple of times, but if you look 100 yards ahead and anticipate situations, you can usually avoid Iockups. You cannot blame your brakes for being a bad driver. Retarders, exhaust brakes and compression brakes help, but drivers in the old days drove the mountains without them.
Title: Re: Looking at 1993 GV
Post by: Caflashbob on February 13, 2017, 08:38:13 pm
22c had no exhaust brake, retarder, or engine compression brake and with the 545 Allison had no lockup.
Sold a lot of Ford 460 pusher gasses. No lockup.
We were surrounded by mountains to get in or out of Irvine.
Not possible to drive down cajon pass in a 22c at normal, not fast speeds, without some brake fade.
My store sold 59 new Foretravels in 1988. Lots were disk brake coaches. Lots of demo rides up and down grapevine and Baker grade.
I have had two panic stops in 25k miles. One in New Mexico where a FedEx can panic stopped in front of me to make a sudden left at an almost missed turn and one in la traffic where a distracted Mercedes driver jumped out in front of me to change lanes in bumper to bumper traffic.
Had a roadmaster front engine 8.2 Detroit that was so poorly braked that I got with roadmaster in cherry valley, Illinois and got a set of 23,000 pound gvw bigger front brake calipers and fit them to the customers coach. Fixed it.
Told many customers that this was basically a rockie mountain problem. Midwest or east coast, no issue.
Full load and a small toad a six percent grade was exciting.
The two panic stops was simply to demonstrate the braking systems heat absorbing capacity. Same as a long downgrade without the excellent ways to hold the coaches back.
The alpine I drove for two weeks as a cell tower citing vehicle crossing five thousand miles of so cal was really the scariest.
Heavier coach, six speed 3060, 300 Cummins. Brakes smelled a lot. They could tell I was very cautious on grades..
Was not aware of any big rig type truck ever fit with hydraulic brakes.
The small parking drum brake on the back of the trans had limited stopping ability if the brakes heated up. Two small shoes